After two unsuccessful cycles, I'm going to earn a second Bachelors

[nightynematode]

Long story short, after two unsuccessful cycles, I'm planning on going back to my Alma mater to earn a second Bachelors degree. I'm aware that all undergraduate work will be lumped together but does doing a second Bachelors ever have any additional consideration? I'm doing a second Bachelors in Physics primarily because I love the material but wonder if I should throw a Hail Mary and apply a third time when I get close to finishing? I did a Medical Masters and still was not accepted. I'm totally aware that I might never get in and Physics at the graduate level is my secondary plan. During my first Bachelors I was immature, my GPA was just acceptable but I had a good amount of withdrawals due to immaturity and unforeseen circumstances. I thought doing an accelerated Medical masters would show my newfound maturity and academic focus but ultimately I had a total of two interviews following it with no acceptances. I wouldn't be devastated if I were rejected again but after all my efforts I thought it'd be foolish to not at least try one last time.

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[gyngyn]

Long story short, after two unsuccessful cycles, I'm planning on going back to my Alma mater to earn a second Bachelors degree. I'm aware that all undergraduate work will be lumped together but does doing a second Bachelors ever have any additional consideration? I'm doing a second Bachelors in Physics primarily because I love the material but wonder if I should throw a Hail Mary and apply a third time when I get close to finishing? I did a Medical Masters and still was not accepted. I'm totally aware that I might never get in and Physics at the graduate level is my secondary plan. During my first Bachelors I was immature, my GPA was just acceptable but I had a good amount of withdrawals due to immaturity and unforeseen circumstances. I thought doing an accelerated Medical masters would show my newfound maturity and academic focus but ultimately I had a total of two interviews following it with no acceptances. I wouldn't be devastated if I were rejected again but after all my efforts I thought it'd be foolish to not at least try one last time.

A second undergraduate degree will not be an independent factor in the evaluation of your application.
A sustained period of academic excellence in undergraduate sciences may make a difference, though.

Physics can be a demanding major and though "B's" may be a good grade in that department, they will not move the needle for the MD degree.

You may be responding to a sunk-cost fallacy, I'm afraid

 

[nightynematode]

A second undergraduate degree will not be an independent factor in the evaluation of your application.
A sustained period of academic excellence in undergraduate sciences may make a difference, though.

My second Bachelors would be around 60-70 credit; I assume that wouldn't be sufficient?

 

[gyngyn]

My second Bachelors would be around 60-70 credit; I assume that wouldn't be sufficient?

70 credits of "A's," would be a sustained period.
A's" in Physics can be an uphill climb, though.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I'm confused. You were in pharmacy school. When did you apply to medical school... twice? Your plan is taking you backwards...

Need Advice: Have to Reapply to Pharmacy School

Long story shot, I left Pharmacy school to complete a Masters degree but I'd like to return. My Masters was in a science field and, I believe, would enhance my experience as a Pharmacist. The Masters is designed to help people apply to Medical school, which I did, but I was unsuccessful. I will...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[nightynematode]

I'm confused. You were in pharmacy school. When did you apply to medical school... twice? Your plan is taking you backwards...

Need Advice: Have to Reapply to Pharmacy School

Long story shot, I left Pharmacy school to complete a Masters degree but I'd like to return. My Masters was in a science field and, I believe, would enhance my experience as a Pharmacist. The Masters is designed to help people apply to Medical school, which I did, but I was unsuccessful. I will...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Once before I entered Pharmacy school and then once after I took a leave from Pharmacy school (before the second application, I completed a Medical masters). I'm unable to re-enter Pharmacy school as my school essentially wants me to reapply to continue (I was led to believe the process was far more simple when I left).

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Once before I entered Pharmacy school and then once after I took a leave from Pharmacy school (before the second application, I completed a Medical masters). I'm unable to re-enter Pharmacy school as my school essentially wants me to reapply to continue (I was led to believe the process was far more simple when I left).

Sure, but you will have to report your PharmD school transcript and that you left on your AMCAS application. What advice did you get from your faculty at the Med Masters program??

 

[Goro]

Long story short, after two unsuccessful cycles, I'm planning on going back to my Alma mater to earn a second Bachelors degree. I'm aware that all undergraduate work will be lumped together but does doing a second Bachelors ever have any additional consideration? I'm doing a second Bachelors in Physics primarily because I love the material but wonder if I should throw a Hail Mary and apply a third time when I get close to finishing? I did a Medical Masters and still was not accepted. I'm totally aware that I might never get in and Physics at the graduate level is my secondary plan. During my first Bachelors I was immature, my GPA was just acceptable but I had a good amount of withdrawals due to immaturity and unforeseen circumstances. I thought doing an accelerated Medical masters would show my newfound maturity and academic focus but ultimately I had a total of two interviews following it with no acceptances. I wouldn't be devastated if I were rejected again but after all my efforts I thought it'd be foolish to not at least try one last time.

Don't waste your time.

Do either a DIY post-bac or a SMP. I recommend the latter, especially when given at a medical school. If money is an issue, do the former.

Do you have the requisite ECs for med school? You've taken the MCAT?

IF you were having academic trouble in Pharm school, how will you be able to handle the furnace of med school???

 

[LizzyM]

How did you do in the medical masters? (GPA?)

 

[nightynematode]

Don't waste your time.

Do either a DIY post-bac or a SMP. I recommend the latter, especially when given at a medical school. If money is an issue, do the former.

Do you have the requisite ECs for med school? You've taken the MCAT?

IF you were having academic trouble in Pharm school, how will you be able to handle the furnace of med school???

I've already done a Masters at a medical school. I wasn't having academic trouble in Pharmacy school, I just wanted to pursue Medicine. I took the MCAT but the score will expire soon. My ECs are kinda old and could be beefed up.

 

[nightynematode]

Sure, but you will have to report your PharmD school transcript and that you left on your AMCAS application. What advice did you get from your faculty at the Med Masters program??

My faculty in my medical masters didn't give me much advisement period. I'm aware that I would need to report Pharmacy school.

 

[nightynematode]

How did you do in the medical masters? (GPA?)

3.7+ (closer to 3.8 than 3.7).

 

[Goro]

I've already done a Masters at a medical school. I wasn't having academic trouble in Pharmacy school, I just wanted to pursue Medicine. I took the MCAT but the score will expire soon. My ECs are kinda old and could be beefed up.

Why did you apply to Pharmacy if you wanted to pursue Medicine?

What was your GPA for the medical MS? This is what will be the determinative factor in terms of GPAs.

 

[nightynematode]

Why did you apply to Pharmacy if you wanted to pursue Medicine?

What was your GPA for the medical MS? This is what will be the determinative factor in terms of GPAs.

I applied to Pharmacy because I failed to enter Medical school and Pharmacy is still in the healthcare field. My medical MS gpa was 3.75+.

 

[Goro]

I applied to Pharmacy because I failed to enter Medical school and Pharmacy is still in the healthcare field. My medical MS gpa was 3.75+.

You should be good to go, then. But just to clarify, after you left Pharm school, you applied to med schools twice?

What was your school list? MCAT score?

 

[nightynematode]

You should be good to go, then. But just to clarify, after you left Pharm school, you applied to med schools twice?

What was your school list? MCAT score?

I applied to medical school once, applied to and entered Pharmacy and during a leave from Pharmacy, applied to medical school the second time.

508 MCAT (weak P/S score but pretty evenly distributed in other sections).

 

[chilly_md]

Where did you apply and did you include DO schools (list these ones too if you did in either cycle)?

 

[LizzyM]

Your second cycle was after completing the medical masters with a 3.7 or 3.8? and an MCAT of 508? Is that your only MCAT score or is that the best of two or more?

 

[GoSpursGo]

I feel like we are likely missing information and it may just be easier if you give a full WAMC including your undergrad GPA and school list. I would generally expect someone who did well in an SMP and got a reasonabke MCAT could get in, provided they included DO schools and were complete early.

 

[pazzer2]

Getting information piecemeal like this is very confusing. Could you please write out a complete timeline of events?

 

[nightynematode]

Getting information piecemeal like this is very confusing. Could you please write out a complete timeline of events?

Working on it

 

[nightynematode]

I feel like we are likely missing information and it may just be easier if you give a full WAMC including your undergrad GPA and school list. I would generally expect someone who did well in an SMP and got a reasonabke MCAT could get in, provided they included DO schools and were complete early.

Will do

 

[nightynematode]

1. My gGPA will change because I started a PhD and was dismissed (long story short, I needed to take a leave of absence, got bad information and subsequently failed 2/3 of classes in first semester. I opted to not return because I would still have been dismissed).

2. 1st MCAT: 124/127/123/126; 2nd MCAT: 128/127/128/125 (after Medical Masters)

3. Florida Resident

4. African American

5. Went to an HBCU for undergrad

6. Little clinical experience aside from shadowing

7. A few years of research in Chemistry but felt lackluster

8. Shadowing in Emergency Medicine and General Medicine

9. No non-clinical volunteering to speak of

10. Medical Masters?

11. N/A

I have an IA and reported it when I first applied and accidentally omitted it on my second application (caused my application to be flagged). Additionally, I have withdrawals that occurred during my undergraduate program. When I contacted schools and they offered advice, these are the two negatives I heard across the board.

After my first application, I was accepted to Pharmacy school but left after the first semester to earn my Medical Masters. Despite doing well, even the school where I completed the Masters rejected me.

Most recent school list (second failed cycle):
Albany
Einstein
TCU
BU
CWRU
Charles Drew
Rowan
FIU
FSU
Netter
Hackensack
Howard
Sinai
Temple
Meharry
Morehouse
NYMC
Nova
OSU
Penn State
Perelman
SLU
USF
UCLA
UCF
Pritzker
UF
Wake Forest
Wayne State

I posted recently about the usefulness of doing a second Bachelors in Physics. I understand I could never be accepted and realize that Physics is something I enjoy and could provide a fruitful career. I've put a lot into pursuing Medicine but I realize I may need to cut my losses. Best case scenario, my uGPA would rise to 3.4 if I finished the second Bachelors so I'm not sure how much it would help given I've already excelled in a Masters program.

 

[candbgirl]

What is your reasoning for doing a second bachelors after completing a Medical masters?

 

[chilly_md]

1. My gGPA will change because I started a PhD and was dismissed (long story short, I needed to take a leave of absence, got bad information and subsequently failed 2/3 of classes in first semester. I opted to not return because I would still have been dismissed).

I have moved your post back here to keep the discussion together. For reference for others, you mentioned you had a 3.2 uGPA and a 3.77 in the SMP in the title of the other thread.

A 2nd bachelors would not be of any use after you completed an SMP. Your app had essentially no ECs on it and the bad semester/dismissal for the PhD program will be a red flag despite the SMP performance. If you need the physics degree for a career, be sure you have a clear idea of how exactly you can use it. Academia is a long path with uncertainty.

 

[ghmed13]

I have exactly 0 qualifications but as an applicant who is so passionate about medicine that I could not imagine any other career field I could enjoy, I would say don’t apply again. You stated that you “would not be devastated” if you were rejected again, so with the time, energy, and money you would be putting in I just don’t see how it could be worthwhile for a “might as well” type attempt. With love, it seems like you’ve been a little scatterbrained and I think that’s what ADCOMs would see. Some of the best advice I’ve heard from doctors/residents/med students is if you can picture yourself doing anything other than being a physician, do that other thing. It seems you could see yourself doing pharmacy or something physics related (personally I feel like pharmacy is your best bet), so I would move forward with that! I don’t intend to be discouraging in the slightest, we need Black people in medicine! But—we also need more Black people in other STEM fields!

Good luck to you and happy BHM

 

[eigen]

1. My gGPA will change because I started a PhD and was dismissed (long story short, I needed to take a leave of absence, got bad information and subsequently failed 2/3 of classes in first semester. I opted to not return because I would still have been dismissed).

6. Little clinical experience aside from shadowing

9. No non-clinical volunteering to speak of

IMO, these are the main issues with your application, none of which will be fixed by another BS, and in fact another BS might actively hamper the latter two, which are your biggest issues.

At this point, you've started and dropped out of two graduate programs: a PhD and a PharmD. That is... not a good track record. How are you going to convince a medical school that this time you really mean it and will stay?

And... no clinical experience and no non-clinical volunteering is really bad, as long as you've been doing this. I wouldn't encourage a student to apply once with that, much less twice. You have other red flags, but with no clinical experience and non-clinical volunteering I would consider your app effectively a non-starter.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Thanks for the WAMC, this definitely fills in the missing information.

Honestly, this is great news because there are two easily fixable fatal flaws in your app. The first is that you have little clinical and nonclinical experience, and the second is that you have not yet shot your shot on DO schools. It is getting very close to June so I would suggest taking this upcoming cycle off, but spend the year getting a job as a scribe and fix your clinical experience problem, then volunteer on the weekends to fix your nonclinical problem. Apply in 2025 and include DO schools. I highly suspect if you do this you'll get in.

 

[gyngyn]

I suspect the AMCAS investigation didn't help.
We only see a handful of these every year.

 

[Goro]

Honestly, this is great news because there are two easily fixable fatal flaws in your app. The first is that you have little clinical and nonclinical experience, and the second is that you have not yet shot your shot on DO schools. It is getting very close to June so I would suggest taking this upcoming cycle off, but spend the year getting a job as a scribe and fix your clinical experience problem, then volunteer on the weekends to fix your nonclinical problem. Apply in 2025 and include DO schools. I highly suspect if you do this you'll get in.

I suspect the AMCAS investigation didn't help.
We only see a handful of these every year.

OP, it's a good thing that AMCAS and AACOMAS don't communicate with each other.

However, your track record is very concerning, as you've started multiple professional schools and given up on all of them. I suspect that even once the holes in the app are filled, DO schools would be very wary of you, except for the newest schools, which are metastasizing, unfortunately for the profession.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I suspect the AMCAS investigation didn't help.
We only see a handful of these every year.

I did miss this. It probably wouldn't kill you to just submit AMCAS to any state MD schools, but that's a pretty black mark.

No doubt, the OP has a lot of problems in their history. But at the end of the day, they did well in an SMP and in a subsequent MCAT, so I think it is possible there is a school out there that will see them as the person who turned things around and not the person who made prior mistakes. And given the effort put in up to this point, it probably behooves them to fill out their ECs and give the app one more shot with an almost exclusive emphasis on DO.