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uab or emory? duke?

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by crash2500, Feb 22, 2007.

  1. crash2500

    crash2500 ASA Member
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    as an alabama resident is it worth it to pass up uab to go to emory? what about a school as high as duke? emory seems to have a higher prestige level than uab because reading this you probably think emory is ranked higher right? well its not uab is higher. but what about if one had to choose between duke and uab? is it worth it to go to the 6th ranked school if you have a great school like uab(#22) in ur state?
     
  2. FemalesCANTDriv

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    OMFG... u would go to UAB over DUKE?!?!?!?! :scared:

    IMHO, I would go to Duke. But I am also all over Duke's nuts so... go figure.
     
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  3. aumed22

    aumed22 Senior Member
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    Great question and one that is faced by many Alabama residents each year. In my opinion (former AL resident and Auburn grad) it all depends on what your goals are. If you are set on going into academic medicine and/or going into some super-competitive field, then going to Duke may help. While Emory may have a slightly better known name nationally, I don't think any advantage conferred would be worth the cost. UAB is a great school with a very good reputation, especially in the Southeast. If you have plans of leaving the South, then you may want to look into a school with a slightly higher national reputation. All that being said, I think if you go to UAB and do well, then all doors will be open, at least in theory.
     
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  4. OP
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    crash2500

    crash2500 ASA Member
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    i didnt say that. i was posting a question for discussion.
     
  5. Dr.Inviz

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    Duke for sure. Duke is a top med school.
     
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  6. JDovers

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    Duke is a great school that will leave you in an eff-ton of debt.

    Like the previous poster said, it's about goals. Want to be in academia or impress hospital administrators in large cities: Duuuuke.

    UAB is ranked higher than emory, cheaper than emory, and everyone I've talked to has seemed to enjoy their experience at UAB more than people I've talked with at emory (limited sample here).

    All said, I'd totally go to Duke because I'm a ***** for name recognition, but on my best day I'd like to think I'd still have chosen UAB.
     
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  7. wcliffa

    wcliffa New Member
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    I am in the same position you are. I am an Alabama resident that has interviewed at all three places. I have been accepted by UAB and Emory--have not yet heard from Duke. Between UAB and Emory I believe that the clear choice is UAB. I believe that part of the rankings are based on national reputation--UAB is the clear leader in rankings. Moreover, as you have noted UAB is decidedly cheaper. I finished law school at Emory in 99 and can unequivocally state that though a great name, I was still competing against excellent students from state schools for top law firm jobs. People are impressed by Emory's name but those people are not repaying your loans and the vast majority of people have no earthly idea about Emory. (BTW--Emory has a reputation for being extremely cutthroat and not a fun place to spend important years of your life)

    The decision btwn Duke and UAB is decidedly tougher. Duke is a top 10 school. I have an uncle that is a radiology residency director and he tells me that residency directors like "name schools." Of course, good students at UAB will likely have the same opportunities as some at Duke. The real difference probably lies near the margins. The ultimate question should be whether being an average student at Duke will buy you more opportunities than being one at UAB. (No one in the world can give you a finite answer to these questions) Decide with your gut. You might be the top guy at UAB and in the middle at Duke.

    Good luck...BTW...I will see you at one of these schools.
     
  8. ahhh123

    ahhh123 Member
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    Is this really true?
     
  9. HumbleMD

    HumbleMD hmmmm...
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    The ranking difference between Emory and UAB is minute, so consider them about equal. I feel like Emory is on the up and up though, with the new curriculum, new buildings, and access to great resources (Public Health school and CDC are right there). Also, to lay-people especially, the Emory name has a lot more clout than Alabama. Would that be worth an extra 80 grand in the long run? I'd say probably not, especially if you aren't thinking Public Health. Now Duke is a tough question, because it is an incredible school. If you see yourself enjoying their curriculum (it's a very unique one, as you know), and being okay in Durham, I'd go for it as it's almost a golden ticket to good research opportunities and therefore good residencies. However, the area, curriculum, and demeanor of students and facutly or not for everyone (as I found on my interview). But I'd say quit worrying about the decision process - you may not even be considering Duke come March:scared: .
     
  10. Dookter

    Dookter Senior Member
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    It's not in Raleigh....It's in Durham....
     
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  11. Dookter

    Dookter Senior Member
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    Maybe. Maybe not. The Duke grant rocks if you qualify.
     
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  12. Richspiders07

    Richspiders07 User - peruser
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    I'm still shocked by how many X or Emory threads have been out there. I know so many people (myself included) that would die to go to emory.
     
  13. desidr

    desidr Member
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    i agree. emory is rising at an incredible rate in regard to it's position as an institution of medical education. according to the newsletter put out by their dean they are the no.1 med school in terms of growth rate of NIH research grant money, and are now ranked 19 in research grants from the NIH. their new 60 million dollar medical education building ready this summer should be pretty incredible as well. also, the curriculum revamping HEAVILY emphasizes putting 1st years in the hospitals starting with day 1. they are really being innovative with the curriculum -- starting with whole body studies and going down to the level of the cell with an organ based approach which is a completely new way of approaching things. perhaps being a guinea pig in that 'experiment' is not a good thing, but it shows their willingness to be leaders in medical education which i think is worth something.

    that having been said i think Duke is Duke and will always be Duke, and UAB is ranked 22 for a reason, so to be honest i dont think you can go wrong wherever you go, but UAB and Emory probably have a public health advantage over Duke. I think overall it should boil down to are you most interested in basic science research or public health and where you feel you fit in as a student. They are all fine schools for sure. I found the emory emphasis on leadership roles in medicine to fit well with my goals and personality, so I would go there, but its a case by case basis for sure.
     
  14. Dookter

    Dookter Senior Member
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    That depends on what you mean by public health. If you mean actually treating a large number of impoverished patients while in medical school, then you're right. But if you want to actually get an MPH [like during Duke's 3rd year] Duke probably has the edge since we go to UNC to do. The UNC program is like the #2 MPH program, so it's def. a good deal.
     
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  15. DryDoc

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    I agonized over this same decision last year and am now a first year student at Emory. I viewed the schools as equal academically and made my choice largely on the basis of wanting to spend four years in Atlanta rather than Birmingham (or Tuscaloosa or Huntsville). I recognize that it's costing me a lot more money but I'm ok with my decision. Regarding the academic (and social) atmosphere at Emory, I've loved every minute of it. I don't know if previous classes were cutthroat, but my class certainly isn't. we study cooperatively and we socialize together. we're not in the new facilities yet but they look great (as does the new curriculum).
     
  16. Lanced

    Lanced Senior Member
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    Ditto.
     
  17. TommyGunn04

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    Actually, Duke is basically a public hospital in the sense that it doesn't turn patients away regardless of inability to pay and as a result it serves a large proportion of the poor population in the area. Duke students get very good exposure to care of both the impoverished and the well-off. Durham may not have as large of a poor population compared to Atlanta, but there's still a plethora of opportunities to see pretty much anything you'd see at Emory. I saw tons of uninsured and underinsured patients as a Duke student, and have already had lots of exposure as a resident to the challenges of taking care of patients with limited resources.
     
  18. Critical Mass

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    In-state tuition at UAB vs. Duke or Emory? I would go with UAB in a heartbeat. There is absolutely no question in my mind whatsoever.
     
  19. OP
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    crash2500

    crash2500 ASA Member
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    i dont just have instate tuition. my mom works at uab so i get 1/2 off as well which makes the decision even tougher.
     
  20. Richspiders07

    Richspiders07 User - peruser
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    wouldn't that make the decision EASIER?
     
  21. diosa428

    diosa428 SDN Angel
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    This is a big factor when making this decision. Do you WANT to spend only one year doing basic sciences and then a year doing research or getting another degree? For me, that was the huge draw for Duke - I didn't want to sit in class for 2 years and I was excited about having a whole year for research. But this is not for everyone. A lot of these posts are focusing on reputation - how about where you think you will be happiest?
     
  22. rickthetwinkie

    rickthetwinkie Junior Member
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    I would say that unless you're totally enamored with Atlanta, and you found something ultra-awesome-special about Emory that you want so badly, considering the tuition break on in-state tuition that you get, I would take UAB.

    Then again, I'm biased as I haven't seen Emory's campus.
     
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  23. Guile

    Guile 1K Member
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    Actually their ranking has dropped a lot in last few years. I think the new rankings are coming out in a few months, so we'll see how it changes with the increased NIH funding, curriculum, and new building.

    This isn't being innovative nor is it a completely new way of approaching things. Most of the top schools have been doing a systems-based approach for many years. Emory is just now instituting it.

    To the OP, between Emory and UAB, I would go to UAB hands down. No question. Don't think twice. The in-state tuition is too much to pass up, and UAB is even ranked HIGHER. So why would you want to pay more to go to a lower-ranked school? (Admittedly their rankings are very close--so close you could probably call them equal.) In the end, where you match is going to be a product of your board scores, 3rd year rotation grades, and letters of rec. There will be no difference between you and an Emory 4th year on the interview trail. UAB is a top-notch school (it has that "name" even though it's not private. UAB puts out AWESOME research and has extremely well-connected people as faculty.) Also, get some opinions of people who have finished med school and are in residency. All the pre-meds here are totally enamored by name and location. When they're on the other side of things they'll realize how little they mattered and they'll be paying the price of it (to the tune of $250K just in principal) for a long time to come. Look at the match list at UAB. ENT at Mayo, Vanderbilt, and WashU! Come on! And, are you ready, drum roll, rad onc at UCSF! You can't beat those matches. You're going to be in some very good company at UAB. Nothing will hold you back there.

    EDIT: I just noticed some other matches that were phenomenal. 9 rads matches including one at Vanderbilt--a very top rads program--and also at Duke. If you can match radiology at Duke from UAB what do you think is going to hold you back if you go there for med school? Also surgery at the Mayo Clinic and Vanderbilt! I realize most of this is falling on deaf ears in this forum, but I hope you, the OP, understands what this implies for you as someone deciding where to go for med school.

    Now UAB vs. Duke is a different story. You're going to have to decide for yourself what you want more. Less debt vs. the name, curriculum, and connections at Duke.
     
  24. Stolenspatulas

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    UAB in a heartbeat

    duke and emory are both too expensive (compared to in-state UAB)unless your parents are poor or you bling out with a scholarship. personally i think duke is too research-focused.
     
  25. Critical Mass

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    :eek:

    I definitely agree with the others. Please tell us what it is about the private schools that make you feel as though they are worth 4-5 times the tuition cost (according to an old MSAR).
     
  26. Gfunk6

    Gfunk6 And to think . . . I hesitated
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    :oops: I can't tell you how flattered I was reading this (I was the person who matched in rad onc). Obviously, there are many things which lead to a successful match, only one of which is your school's rep. However, travelling around the country interviewing for residencies, everyone who mattered knew about UAB and knew it was one of the leaders in biomedical research/training. Thanks for making my day! :)
     
  27. VCMM414

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    There's no doubt that UAB is an excellent institution. Much better research resources in certain areas of medicine when compared to Emory. If I had to choose between the two, I may very well choose UAB and its in-state tuition. However, let's be a bit more realistic about UAB's ranklist. Of the matches you cited, ENT at WashU and RadOnc at UCSF were both MD/PhD applicants. The person who matched at UCSF RadOnc also did an away rotation there. These UAB students matched well because they are MD/PhDs and are strong applicants overall, NOT because they went to UAB. MD/PhD students fare well on residency applications regardless of where they go to school. http://www.dpo.uab.edu/~paik/match.html You can see how an MD/PhD from MCW matched in UCSF derm, a MUSC MD/PhD matched at Hopkins ENT, another MD/PhD from VCU matched at Penn radiology, etc. etc.
     
  28. Doctor&Geek

    Doctor&Geek 25 > 5 / 15 < 8
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    Before we start to spawn cows arguing about match lists, just remember such things vary from year to year and certainly one should be taking all match list data with a lump of salt. Remember also that the focus of the school and student population dictate the "quality" of the matchlist. This is the reason why schools like Rosalind Franklin (not picking on them, just an obvious example) can appear to have excellent match lists with tons of out-of-state California matches & competitive specialty matches, just because most of the people there are out-of-state and the school has no mission to train primary-care physicians who stay instate. The same can be said for schools such as Temple or Tufts colocated in Boston, Philadephia, or New York, where they disproportionately have more "desirable matches" at institutions like Penn or MGH. Just because a southern school or a state school anywhere keeps a lot of people off the west and east coasts does not mean that students who graduate from there lack the capabilities to do so.

    The match list for UAB I posted above (and others from previous years as well in the consolidated match list thread posted each year in pre-allo) does have that information with regards to which people who were MSTPs matched in which programs, so you can exclude those from your count.

    If you really wanted to compare apples to apples, remember that Duke also has an MSTP, and again plenty of students there complete more than a year of research. I've never seen a Duke matchlist posted in this forum in the past 4 years which contains information which parse these people out.

    No one has mentioned either that UAB will be changing its curriculum this year to a systems-based approach this year - its unknown as to how smoothly the new curriculum will be implemented. It could be great, or it could be real bad.

    I don't see how you can say this unless its your own opinion that the UAB name contributes absolutely nothing to a residency application.

    Finally, to the OP, if you want to stay outside of academics, save your money and come to UAB. If you are interested in academics, UAB will support you, but you alone have to decide whether or not >200,000 in debt is worth it to go to Duke. If you desire to apply for an extremely competitive specialty at the top academic institutions, this is where I would seriously think about attending Duke over UAB, because (as stated above), you'll either have to have a PhD or have a >250 Step I + AOA to get into that from UAB, whereas you might not need to be at the top of your class at Duke.

    At the same time, don't overestimate the Duke name. It might be up there in the rankings, but it's still in the south. Also consider factors outside of name only when deciding where to matriculate.
     
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  29. Critical Mass

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    I think that you matched at UCSF because of your picture. Once they realized who they were messing with, they couldn't refuse.
     
  30. Guile

    Guile 1K Member
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    Sure thing. :thumbup: You're a total stud. Anything at UCSF is amazing, but especially rad onc! [​IMG]
     
  31. OP
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    crash2500

    crash2500 ASA Member
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    what about going into a sports medicine specialty? I was thinking Birmingham would be great considering Healthsouth is right there as well. I want to have the best shot at a great orthopedics/sports medicine residency and then continue with a fellowship. I dont really know what the great sports medicine residencies are tho. Where would be an awesome place to match for sports medicine?
     
  32. Guile

    Guile 1K Member
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    You should never choose a school based on what you think you're going to do. I believe I've heard that >90% of students change their mind about residency during medical school at least once. Pick a place where you'll get a good medical education and you'll match fine from there as long as you do well while you're there.
     
  33. Doctor&Geek

    Doctor&Geek 25 > 5 / 15 < 8
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    You at the very least need to get more informed. James Andrews is not a faculty at UAB, and neither is he at HealthSouth anymore. He's been a St. Vincent's for at least a year. He also doesn't have a sports medicine residency - he only offers fellowships. From what I understand UAB has little to no relationship with Dr. Andrews or anything to do with his sports medicine program. Neither does any other academic program, though.

    That said, UAB orthopaedics is still an excellent program.
     
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  34. desidr

    desidr Member
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    "The Foundations of Medicine phase is conceived to be 15 months long. This phase starts with the whole patient and proceeds down to cells and molecules. To my knowledge, no other school in the United States has taken this approach. The reverse is common. This unique concept was originated by some of our basic science faculty, and I congratulate them on this innovation."

    from: http://whsc.emory.edu/_pubs/deans_letters_som/2005_annual_report/

    That was what i meant...
     
  35. Guile

    Guile 1K Member
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    This guy is awesome. I think he did Bo Jackson's hips and Charlie McClendon's knees.

    EDIT: More than that, too. Looks like he's operated on John Smoltz, Kerry Wood, Roger Clemens, and Donovan McNabb.
     
  36. Doctor&Geek

    Doctor&Geek 25 > 5 / 15 < 8
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    Anyone who is anybody in baseball that needs a Tommy John goes to Dr. Andrews.
     
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  37. OP
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    crash2500

    crash2500 ASA Member
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    of course i need to be more informed. I am an undergrad unfamiliar with residency and the process to get to the point of practicing sports medicine. I guess since i am not particularly interested in academic medicine uab should suit me fine right? or wrong?
     
  38. Doctor&Geek

    Doctor&Geek 25 > 5 / 15 < 8
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  39. Guile

    Guile 1K Member
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    So why is he no longer at UAB? He seems like he would certainly be an asset to the program.
     
  40. Doctor&Geek

    Doctor&Geek 25 > 5 / 15 < 8
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    He was never "at" UAB. He's listed as "clinical professor" at our orthopods program, but he doesn't practice here to my knowledge, nor is he listed as being on the academic faculty.
     
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  41. TommyGunn04

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    I'm not so sure this is true actually. I recall hearing a lecture by one of our advisory deans at Duke who referenced a survey about this. It basically said that "most" students' hunches about what field they want to pursue (>50%) end up being quite accurate. In other words, there's reason to doubt the ">90%" assertion made above. LOTS of students have a good hunch about what they want to do when they start med school, and a good portion end up doing just that. I also think it's quite possible to know if you're one of those people. If that's true, then it may well be in your best interest to use this to help you choose the right school for you.
     

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