UC tuitions going up

[UCSBMed1]

Insert, I have a few questions for you.

Who the h*ll are you to tell me that I am being selfish for complaining for the tuition increase?

First off, I've lived in the Golden State my entire life. My parents (and I) have paid state taxes for 22 years, and I DESERVE to pay less for public school than if I attended a private school. Why? Because I paid the difference already in paying taxes! We're not getting some kind of break in price just because we go to a UC, but our tuition is subsidized by state tax payers. Maybe you just don't understand this.

Don't be bitter because you didn't get into a UC. For many of us, the fee hike detrimentally affects us, and a 40% fee hike is a huge burden. I worked my *ss off to get into this school, paid my taxes, and now I'm being screwed over by a Governor that I didn't vote for, and punished because of a budget crisis I had nothing to do with. Don't assume that grants will make up for the increase in tuition. When the fees went up before the current year started, they added more LOANS to my fees, not grants. The Terminator specifically said that the increase in fees will not correspond with an increase in grant money. How are people going to make up this difference? With LOANS.

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[somekevinguy]

just to get a better idea of uc's compared to private schools now....40% hike of about 20K/yr = 28K /yr....thats pretty comarable to private schools now ....are my numbers in the right ballpark?

 

[lola]

Originally posted by exmike


For professional schools there is an additional "professional school fee", currently about 10k and about to rise. thats where you get your 15k total.

the professional school fee is more like 15-16k and about to rise to 22k -- quite a large increase if you ask me (especially if you take into consideration that the fees were 11k last year). it would have been much more preferable to current students to have gradually increased fees over the last several years (and have 10x as many students pay slightly increased fees ) rather than try to make up for our government's mistakes in one large chunk and thus greatly hurt current students. many other states manage to have lower tuitions for their med schools, and i wish california would make public education more of a priority. but hey, public education in california has always been lacking (other than a few excellent universities).

 

[UCSBMed1]

By "other than a few excellent universities" I hope you mean the UC system as a whole. No other Public university system has 5 schools ranked in the Top 50. The UC system is excellent.

 

[lola]

yes, the uc system is excellent. the cal state system is ok. public elementary, middle, and high school education in california is terrible.
one thing i will say in defense of arnold is that at least he is not raising fees for nursing programs.

 

[Insert]

Originally posted by somekevinguy
just to get a better idea of uc's compared to private schools now....40% hike of about 20K/yr = 28K /yr....thats pretty comarable to private schools now ....are my numbers in the right ballpark?

As a resident of CA, your tuition is $0 to attend UCLA or UCSD med school. This information was gathered from US NEWS and their websites. If you're not a resident of CA, you have to pay $10,000 a year in tuition. On top of that you have your required fees which is about 10,000 and your room and board.

For private schools, tuition alone is around 35K and that is NOT including fees or room and board. The conclusion is, they can afford an increase in tuition.

 

[UCSBMed1]

Originally posted by Insert
As a resident of CA, your tuition is $0 to attend UCLA or UCSD med school. This information was gathered from US NEWS and their websites. If you're not a resident of CA, you have to pay $10,000 a year in tuition. On top of that you have your required fees which is about 10,000 and your room and board.

For private schools, tuition alone is around 35K and that is NOT including fees or room and board. The conclusion is, they can afford an increase in tuition.

That's just what you don't understand, man. Sure, it is still a good bargain to go to a UC med school, add in the associated perks of living in your home state (living near friends/family, weather, residency contacts, etc) and its a good deal.

What you must also think about is that not only are fees going up, but services are being lost as well. Maybe this pill wouldn't be so hard to swallow if the funding to the UC maintained status quo, but a lot of services are being lost, including all the outreach programs to disadvantaged students, something that helped a lot of UC students realize that they could go to a UC. Without these, the UC will become a lot more monolithic and full of the wealthy.

 

[lola]

Originally posted by Insert
As a resident of CA, your tuition is $0 to attend UCLA or UCSD med school. This information was gathered from US NEWS and their websites. If you're not a resident of CA, you have to pay $10,000 a year in tuition. On top of that you have your required fees which is about 10,000 and your room and board.

For private schools, tuition alone is around 35K and that is NOT including fees or room and board. The conclusion is, they can afford an increase in tuition.

dude, fees=tuition for us california residents. don't tell me the fees at private schools are anywhere close to $22k/year. while tuition is technically $0 at uc's, we all know that is a bunch of bull and that the tuition is included in the fees.

 

[Insert]

Originally posted by lola
dude, fees=tuition for us california residents. don't tell me the fees at private schools are anywhere close to $22k/year. while tuition is technically $0 at uc's, we all know that is a bunch of bull and that the tuition is included in the fees.

Let us make a comparison.

At UCLA,
$0 for tuition
$11,000 in registration fees
$10,000 for room and board

As you said, this would total 21K to 22K per year.

At USC,
$35,000 for tuition
$1,000 for fees
$10,000 for room and board

This would be about 46,000K per year and perhaps more.

That's about a 25K a year difference between a typical private school and a UC. That would be a 100K debt difference between a private school graduate and UC medical school graduate.

What this amounts to is that UC med students can afford to have their tuitions increased so stop bitchin.

 

[hamhamfan]

Originally posted by Insert


What this amounts to is that UC med students can afford to have their tuitions increased so stop bitchin.

From an internet slang dictionaries:

bitching adj 1. very good, excellent; COOL, AWESOME. Origin and notes: Bitching is a somewhat dated term that has made several comebacks. It is rare to hear it today. Believed to have originated in the surfer crowd of California, USA. ("That's a bitching bike!") cool.

Bitchin''

Bitchin' is American slang for excellent, first class.

Bitching

Bitching is slang for talking unpleasantly about someone, complaining.
Bitching is British slang for seeking sex with a prostitute.

I assume that you are using the last definition. What is wrong with complaining?

com?plain: 1. To express feelings of pain, dissatisfaction, or resentment.

At least in my case, it's an expression of dissatisfaction. I'm merely disagreeing with the governor's proposed budget. It is because I firmly believe that it can be improved. I myself never argued for affordability, I want at least the maintainment of the current fees. I'll compare it to minor crime rates. Say minor crime rates decrease dramatically one year. There should still be efforts to decrease the minor crime rates because crime of any kind should be targeted.

You are complaining about us complaining. It seems hypocritical to me that you criticize other people for complaining while you complain. It's really hurtful when you call us names and then attack us for complaining. You have posted some really mean-spirited and unfair posts.

 

[exmike]

The arguments in this thread were somewhat interesting before but it is now quickly degenerating....

 

[lola]

insert,
no one is saying it won't still be cheaper at uc's than at private schools. public schools are partially funded by the government, thus by definition students do not have to pay as much. i would like to keep it this way, otherwise what is the point of public schools??

 

[antoniodlc]

Originally posted by Insert
Let us make a comparison.

At UCLA,
$0 for tuition
$11,000 in registration fees
$10,000 for room and board

As you said, this would total 21K to 22K per year.

At USC,
$35,000 for tuition
$1,000 for fees
$10,000 for room and board

This would be about 46,000K per year and perhaps more.

That's about a 25K a year difference between a typical private school and a UC. That would be a 100K debt difference between a private school graduate and UC medical school graduate.

What this amounts to is that UC med students can afford to have their tuitions increased so stop bitchin.

from the financial aid office, the official student budget for a M1 at ucla currently is 43k per year, if they live off campus w/o parents.

http://www.medstudent.ucla.edu/fao/continuing/bgt20032004.html

when the fee is increased 40% next year, the budget will rise to 48k. the budget at usc is currently at 54k per year, a difference of only 6k if it stays relatively the same next year.

 

[exmike]

Originally posted by antoniodlc
from the financial aid office, the official student budget for a M1 at ucla currently is 43k per year, if they live off campus w/o parents.

http://www.medstudent.ucla.edu/fao/continuing/bgt20032004.html

when the fee is increased 40% next year, the budget will rise to 48k. the budget at usc is currently at 54k per year, a difference of only 6k if it stays relatively the same next year.

Of course, living in westwood is much more expensive....

 

[Jalby]

Originally posted by antoniodlc
from the financial aid office, the official student budget for a M1 at ucla currently is 43k per year, if they live off campus w/o parents.

http://www.medstudent.ucla.edu/fao/continuing/bgt20032004.html

when the fee is increased 40% next year, the budget will rise to 48k. the budget at usc is currently at 54k per year, a difference of only 6k if it stays relatively the same next year.

Go on a ski trip and this thread turns very dirty.

As for the numbers above, USC was at 55K, and will prolly stay there or go to 55.5K. And as far as cost of living difference goes, there is plenty of places around UCLA that you can stay that would be just as cheap as the place at USC where everybody stays. But we sure are happy the numbers between the UC's and us is closing. So it would only cost maybe 40-50K more to go here than a UC.

 

[exmike]

Originally posted by Jalby
So it would only cost maybe 40-50K more to go here than a UC.

Hey thats a brand new E-class or BMW 5 series!

 

[Jalby]

Originally posted by exmike
Hey thats a brand new E-class or BMW 5 series!

Would you be willing to give up you BMW 5 series to live in Los Angeles for 5 years, be almost gaurunteed a residency in Los Angeles, or go to a place like Davis or Irvine or another school that kills their students and will be unmentioned here??? (PS no offense to people who love living in Davis or Irvine. I'm just definately not one of those people)

 

[UCSBMed1]

Hey Jalby, I hate to break it to you, but there are people who CHOSE to NOT live in LA.

Davis does not kill their students, so I don't know where you got that from. I just don't understand why some people will just knock other schools for no reason other than to make themselves feel better. You stay in LA, and I'll stay up here.

I'm so glad that I'm away from people like you...

What's with all the school bashing on this site? I would never knock USC for being in Watts, or for being ridiculously overpriced, but hey I guess thats the way we are up here. We are very respectful of other institutions, but I guess you are so into LA that you have to make fun of other schools to make yourself feel better.

 

[lola]

jalby,
so not only are you going to trash ucsd, but you are going to start trashing uci and ucd as well. very mature. you know perfectly well that davis and irvine don't kill their students! pretty soon you will throw ucla and ucsf into the mix too, since you didn't get in there either. oh yeah, and don't forget georgetown. i know how you love to trash talk them too. usc is not everyone?s dream school. i'm sure it is fine and that you are receiving a good education there, but that does not mean that other schools don?t have their merits. to be happy that the tuition difference between the uc?s and usc is narrowing is very silly. why would that make you happy? you want people to go into more debt? or maybe to get a few more of the ?top? students to choose usc over the uc?s? there are plenty of qualified pre-med students in california, and i really don?t think a few more with 4.0?s and 40?s on the mcat will do usc much good.
you seem to think that los angeles is the best place in the world to live. many people would disagree with you on that.

 

[cbc]

All I know is, when jalby was a TA at ucla, most students hated him. He went around as though he was the hot shot and ultimate womanizer, but the girls talked trash about him too. He can be demeaning and cocky. I know for a fact he said he'd go to Baylor if he got in from the waitlist, otherwise he'd go usc. So LA isnt THAT important afterall, that'd he'd pick Baylor. I'm sure if he had a chance to go to a UC, he would've. All this bashing I'm sure it's to convince himself that he didnt miss out on anything when he got rejected and had to go to usc instead. A person who's confident about his own school and abilities would not ever have the need to talk down about other schools.

 

[scota]

cbc,

what did jalby ta?

 

[cbc]

By the way, this makes no sense. Of all the med schools west of New York, USC living expenses is the highest, other than UCLA. You have your OWN ROOM for $300 at davis, $400 at sd or irvine, and $500 at ucsf if you are willing to drive 20min. Unless you're talking about a cardboard box, you'll be paying $400 just to SHARE a room at USC or UCLA.

So herein lies the question, would you rather have your own room and drive a BMW5 or go to USC and share your room with a dealer from the city of Compton?

 

[cbc]

chem 154 or whatever that biochem lab is.

Originally posted by scota
cbc,

what did jalby ta?

 

[scota]

Hey cbc, a dealer from Compton would probably be living in Compton. USC is about 15 miles from Compton, so when you are disparaging the neighborhood, please get it right. By the way, I live by USC, and I still have not been murdered. My family and dog are still alive too! Gosh, future "doctors" should stop being so ignorant .

 

[Jalby]

Originally posted by Jalby
go to a place like Davis or Irvine or another school that kills their students and will be unmentioned here??? (PS no offense to people who love living in Davis or Irvine. I'm just definately not one of those people)

My bad. I totally didn't mean for that sentance to imply that Irvine or Davis killed their students. I was talking about a school that I try not to talk about. I should have made it into 2 different sentances. I was only referring to living in the cities. From everything I know about those 2 schools, they are very nice to their students and the people so like it there. I can totally see why people misinterpreted what I was trying to say and sorry if you were offended.

 

[Jalby]

The chart below is based on a single student sharing off-campus housing.


Year 1
9 Months Year 2
12 Months Year 3
12 Months Year 4
9 Months

Tuition
$35052.00 $35052.00 $35052.00 $35052.00

Mandatory Fees:

Student Health Services $362.00 $362.00 $362.00 $362.00

Student Activities $78.00 $78.00 $78.00 $78.00

Topping Fund $12.00 $12.00 $12.00 $12.00

Malpractice Insurance $25.00 $25.00 $25.00 $25.00

Disability Insurance $61.00 $61.00 $61.00 $61.00

Health Insurance $594.00 $594.00 $594.00 $594.00

Room & Board $9802.00 $13068.00 $13068.00 $9802.00

Books & Supplies $2200.00 $1800.00 $800.00 $700.00

National Boards $406.00 $406.00

Computer $2800.00

Personal $1828.00 $2436.00 $2436.00 $1828.00

Transportation $1440.00 $1920.00 $1920.00 $1440.00

Total $54252.00 $55814.00 $54408.00 $50360.00




* Room Only: $750/mo



This is a year old. Add 1K to everything.

And BTW, Keck isn't near South LA. East LA, not that that is much better.

 

[scota]

Yes, I know that Keck is in East LA. What I don't understand, however, is how you people can make such sweeping statements about neighborhoods you've probably never lived in! It's sad that there are (and will be) doctors who don't look past something as superficial as a neighborhood.

 

[cbc]

To Scota's post: What the hell are you talking about? Quit defending your friend jalby. A dealer can bike 15 miles in 15 min and drive it in 5 min. How is it a sweeping statement to say adjacent to ucsf is twin peaks, to ucla is bel air, to stanford palo alto, and to USC is Inglewood/Ktown/Compton/South Central LA/Skid Row? And who's making the sweeping statement about people you've never met? BTW, no one ever said anything about Comptonians getting murdered. That idea was based on your own assumptions, not my ignorance.

To Jalby's post: $750/month for a room. Proves my point. Davis and Irvine can offer their students $300-$400/month for a room, 1/2 less the price.

Originally posted by scota
Yes, I know that Keck is in East LA. What I don't understand, however, is how you people can make such sweeping statements about neighborhoods you've probably never lived in! It's sad that there are (and will be) doctors who don't look past something as superficial as a neighborhood.

 

[scota]

Read your quote below. This is how I interpret what you're saying: if jalby goes to USC, he'd be sharing a room with drug dealer. Why did you have to say drug dealer? What exactly do you mean by that? To someone who lives near USC (which is nowhere near Compton, by the way), that is very offensive. And also, do you associate UCLA, Stanford, or UCSF with drug dealers? Or does it only apply to USC?

Originally posted by cbc
So herein lies the question, would you rather have your own room and drive a BMW5 or go to USC and share your room with a dealer from the city of Compton?

 

[cbc]

And your quote was..."USC is about 15 miles from Compton," and my response was 15 miles can be biked in 15 min and driven in 5 min. Maybe not to you, but to me, that's near.

This is not a multiple choice verbal exam. I said drug dealer as an open interpretation, instead of saying, you will definitely die or get robbed or stabbed. The meaning is that USC is a generally "more dangerous" area associated with crime. No, crime does not exclusively apply to USC. But let's face it, you are trying to convince me there is no "higher risk" of being involved in criminal activity in the USC area compared to Westwood/Irvine/Davis/West Palo Alto/La Jolla/Parnassus Heights????

I hope in the future you can read my posts with the discretion that I am intentionlly trying to make generalizations to provide some sense of humor in my statements.

Originally posted by scota
Read your quote below. This is how I interpret what you're saying: if jalby goes to USC, he'd be sharing a room with drug dealer. Why did you have to say drug dealer? What exactly do you mean by that? To someone who lives near USC (which is nowhere near Compton, by the way), that is very offensive. And also, do you associate UCLA, Stanford, or UCSF with drug dealers? Or does it only apply to USC?

 

[Jalby]

Westwood is 15 miles from compton. Most of LA is 15 miles from Compton. Apparently you don't know that the Health sciences campus isn't on main campus. Most Keck students live in and near Pasadena, and luckily the Drug dealers get to take the gold line to get to shoot at the students.

As for irvine having places to stay for 300$, you are smoking crack. I personally pay 450$ for my own room in Monterrey Hills, in a great complex that has a pool, workout room, and all kinds of stuff. A ton better than any place I lived in Westwood.

As for defending me, don't worry about it. I had the 5th highest evals my first year and 8th my second year, out of 60 TA's.

 

[SaltySqueegee]

Might I add that the purpose of this thread was for UC tuitions... sheesh.

 

[supersunny]

ironically, the only dealers i've known lived in south pasadena

 

[cbc]

I know where Keck is. It's 10min drive from main campus and right across cal state LA.

Nice to know you like your $450/month cardboard.

Have you thought about the fact that you are comparing yourself with chem dept TAs in a UC system, plus the only people who spend any time doing those evals are nice people? And nice way of not defending yourself by...defending yourself.

To MDTom, to me this a thread concerning USC better than med schools nation wide, esp UCs. I dont bag on USC or any other medical facility, except when I see someone else tryin to pull it, then I step in to regulate. I think people who posts stuff like "which is worst med school" are complete idiots.

 

[UCSBMed1]

Originally posted by cbc
I know where Keck is. It's 10min drive from main campus and right across cal state LA.

Nice to know you like your $450/month cardboard.

Have you thought about the fact that you are comparing yourself with chem dept TAs in a UC system, plus the only people who spend any time doing those evals are nice people? And nice way of not defending yourself by...defending yourself.

To MDTom, to me this a thread concerning USC better than med schools nation wide, esp UCs. I dont bag on USC or any other medical facility, except when I see someone else tryin to pull it, then I step in to regulate. I think people who posts stuff like "which is worst med school" are complete idiots.

P.S. Where can I fiind those $300 rooms you're talking about? I'm paying about $550 right now...

Guess I need to start looking earlier for housing this year.

 

[Wrigleyville]

Everyone wants the free lunch, but I think the people who use particular state services should be the ones to pay for them. I don't see a problem with making students foot the bill for their education, especially when it comes to professional schools.

 

[jlee9531]

Originally posted by cbc
And your quote was..."USC is about 15 miles from Compton," and my response was 15 miles can be biked in 15 min and driven in 5 min. Maybe not to you, but to me, that's near.

wait am i missing something????

are you telling me you ride a bicycle 60mph and drive a car 180mph in La traffic?

please tell me how you are doing this and for sure you will be the apple in everyone's eye.

bike 15 miles in 15 minutes...
drive 15 miles in 5 minutes???

damn. im speechless.

 

[link26]

get this.

california public education is still cheaper than any other state public education even with the fee hikes.

lemme repeat.

california public education is still cheaper than any other state public education even with the fee hikes.

california public education is still cheaper than any other state public education even with the fee hikes.

california public education is still cheaper than any other state public education even with the fee hikes.

got it? good.

I was able to squeak by ~$11,000/year at berkeley, and that includes room (1 block from campus) and board and 'educ fees'. Cut back on the luxuries and stop the bitchin.

The car tax could have cost people $500-1000 per year per vehicle. An education fee hike is less than comparable. And it doesn't sound like students are gonna see an immediate 40% hike in fees of ~$4500

 

[cbc]

My friend from ucdavis undergrad was paying ~$300 for her own master bedroom. She had to drive to school though, not bike, and the drive was about 10 min, and that was about 3 yrs ago.

Originally posted by UCSBPre-Med1


P.S. Where can I fiind those $300 rooms you're talking about? I'm paying about $550 right now...

Guess I need to start looking earlier for housing this year.

 

[cbc]

Everyone wants the free lunch when they have to "pay" for taxes. As a poor student, I pay sales taxes on food, clothing, gifts. When I start working, I will be paying nearly 40% on income taxes alone, not to mention the sales tax on things I purchase and property taxes. Assuming I make 200k/yr as a doctor, I'll be chipping in more than 80k/yr. Now, when I opt my siblings/children to go to a public school where 1 teacher/300 students, and I pay that much on taxes, I expect the price to be lower than when student get individual attention from private schools. You are engrained in a society where taxes seem intrinsically necessary. I grew up in Hong Kong, and no one has heard of 40% income taxes or any sales tax. I expect when we pay money to public education, we get one.

Please keep in mind that while jobs were decreasing and most people were profitting less due to the economy slowdown, a few months ago Congress elected to increase their own salaries and make me pay for our own fellow troops to go die for oil so the Bush family can make more money. Also keep in mind despite that, I'm still staying positive, if you can find my first post on this thread.

Originally posted by Wrigleyville
Everyone wants the free lunch, but I think the people who use particular state services should be the ones to pay for them. I don't see a problem with making students foot the bill for their education, especially when it comes to professional schools.

 

[cbc]

That was just a small exaggeration because I failed to precisely calculate. I can bike ~30mph, making it about 25min. Drive, maybe 90mph, making it perhaps 10min. Still close. I'm assuming most thugs can achieve that speed.

LA traffic is usually clear by 10am-2pm and after 8pm. Thugs dont have 8am classes right? So I bet those are their normal operation times?

Originally posted by jlee9531
wait am i missing something????

are you telling me you ride a bicycle 60mph and drive a car 180mph in La traffic?

please tell me how you are doing this and for sure you will be the apple in everyone's eye.

bike 15 miles in 15 minutes...
drive 15 miles in 5 minutes???

damn. im speechless.

 

[supersunny]

Originally posted by cbc
That was just a small exaggeration because I failed to precisely calculate. I can bike ~30mph, making it about 25min. Drive, maybe 90mph, making it perhaps 10min. Still close. I'm assuming most thugs can achieve that speed.

LA traffic is usually clear by 10am-2pm and after 8pm. Thugs dont have 8am classes right? So I bet those are their normal operation times?

thugs use the emergency lane

 

[lola]

Originally posted by link26

california public education is still cheaper than any other state public education even with the fee hikes.

An education fee hike is less than comparable. And it doesn't sound like students are gonna see an immediate 40% hike in fees of ~$4500

where are you getting your info? if you're talking about college education you may be correct. i'm not sure. however, if you're talking about medical school education (which is what i'm talking about), i believe you are wrong. for example, tuition at university of south alabama is in the $10,000 range, $5-6,000 cheaper than current uc tuition.

you say it doesn't look like students are going to see an immediate 40% hike. where are you getting this information?

 

[LoneCoyote]

Originally posted by lola
where are you getting your info? if you're talking about college education you may be correct. i'm not sure. however, if you're talking about medical school education (which is what i'm talking about), i believe you are wrong. for example, tuition at university of south alabama is in the $10,000 range, $5-6,000 cheaper than current uc tuition.

you say it doesn't look like students are going to see an immediate 40% hike. where are you getting this information?

I agree. There are definitely several states that have lower med school tuition than we do right now. If you look at the chart on the AAMC site you'll see California is kind of in the middle of the pack.

In terms of when the hike will go into effect, what Arnold has proposed are his budget suggestions. In a few weeks the LAO will put out its #'s, which are regarded as more independent. The real negotiations will start in May, once they revise the budget proposals based on how much tax revenue the state takes in. So I am not sure how the UC's will deal with it since they are sure to take a cut. But the size of the cut has to be negotiated in the legislature. Usually the new cuts take effect July 1, so that would mean the hike would probably start for next fall 2004, unless they wrote it in to start later, ie spring 2005.

 

[aeromed]

So, what do you suggest CA do? Nobody wants the car tax. Nobody wants any taxes. Nobody wants any cuts anywhere. Essentially, nobody is willing to pay anything to fix anything. They all want someone else to fix it.

But there's a HUGE problem in CA, money-wise. Something has to be done. I'm sure way back when, some people in CA gov't messed up big-time with overspending, and it sucks that we have to pay for their mistakes now. But nobody ever said that life was fair.

We can't keep going the way we've been going. Cuts have to be made. We have to pay more somehow. If that means cutting funds to special interest groups, hospitals, day cares, schools, so be it....it's really sad it has to be that way, but those are the big expenditures in a state budget, and therefore those programs will be initially targeted.
Unless, of course, someone out there reading this has a complete understanding of the state budget, the history of CA, and has all the "inside info" that the vast majority of us will never have regarding this gov't....if you're that person, please get your a$$ to Sacramento and take over. But if you're not, then I wouldn't be so quick to call Arnold an idiot. He's doing the best he can, as Davis did the best he could w/what he had.

**stepping down from soap box**

 

[sanoge7]

Aeromed - thumbs up, dude. Californians (I am one) are so quick to whine about this and it has been driving me crazy. This state is in turmoil and someone has to do something. Money has to come from somewhere... and the people of the state seem like a good start. Raising the car tax 3X,e tc. will all cause a similar response!

To my fellow Calis, suck it up and deal. The UC system is still pretty damn cheap. ESP for undergraduate. I mean, please. Just be glad we have such a good quality education state system.

 

[bigbaubdi]

Originally posted by aeromed
So, what do you suggest CA do? Nobody wants the car tax. Nobody wants any taxes. Nobody wants any cuts anywhere. Essentially, nobody is willing to pay anything to fix anything. They all want someone else to fix it....

...We can't keep going the way we've been going. Cuts have to be made. We have to pay more somehow. If that means cutting funds to special interest groups, hospitals, day cares, schools, so be it....it's really sad it has to be that way, but those are the big expenditures in a state budget, and therefore those programs will be initially targeted.

It is all about priorities. Basically by cutting basic services such as education and health, Arnold is forcing the people who can least afford it to shoulder California's massive debt, while at the same time he is giving kick backs to rich, SUV owners. Not a humane way of dealing with a budget crisis, IMHO.

 

[link26]

Ahnold's cabinet members aren't dumb. They have on the team that woman who straightened florida's economy.

They have a plan for us Caleeefornians.

A couple thousand more dollars a year...... sounds big.

divide that by 12, and then it won't seem so big after all.

better yet, divide by 365 and look at it in even smaller terms.

It's not that we can't afford it. It will only mean more school loans for most. woopty doo.

it seems most californians are too stupid to care about politics, and when something goes wrong, they bitch and take on a one-sided view.

 

[finnpipette]

To be honest, it's all the rich people who get the breaks. Bush' tax cuts are non-sustainable and basically give huge breaks to the disgustingly rich and a small minority of middle class families with 2 kids not in college...And he repealed the estate tax, basically making sure that the rich stay rich, like the old school landed aristocracy. Let's take a look at the car tax. If you're poor or middle class like most people, the extra hundred dollars on your accord isn't going to break you. The people that it would affect the most are the ones driving around mercedes E55 AMG's who would be shoveling out ~7000 for registration.

Arnold's tax cuts. He said that everyone has to carry the burden. Let's take a look at his two biggest cuts: education and health care. It's not health care for rich kids. It's the poor families, healthy start, or whatever it's called who are going to be uninsured. We're med students, so eventually we'll find ways to make ends meet. What about other grad students? Do you think that PhD's in bio make grips of money? Normally, most schools have to lure good grad students by giving them a full ride anyhow. Where is this money going to come from? Possibly grants...yes, but from the school's pool of funding.

Arnold's other pool...he takes money away from property tax. That basically means less money for the community. What is the main source of income for public schools? Revenue from land tax. Sure the kids in rich prep schools like pasadena poly or harvard westlake will do fine.

How are rich people helping to carry the brunt of the cuts? They don't pay more taxes for jack crap. It's just that their taxes are now being pooled in a different direction.

I guess this is long winded, but you can say us californians bitch about the cuts...but just tell me how the cuts are fair and in the best interest of the state. If gas taxes increased, then everyone would share the burden. But that's not where the cuts are coming from, are they? Why don't you go tell the single mom with two kids that her kids are no longer gonna have health insurance, their schools will suck, they won't be able to afford college, and she will have more trouble paying for her community college education because of tuition raises. You can always just be a freaking prick like Jesse Ventura and tell the mother, "Hey! It's your fault for having kids." Yeah, thanks a lot.

 

[aeromed]

Originally posted by finnpipette
Let's take a look at the car tax. If you're poor or middle class like most people, the extra hundred dollars on your accord isn't going to break you. The people that it would affect the most are the ones driving around mercedes E55 AMG's who would be shoveling out ~7000 for registration.

Wait, so it's all relative, right? If I am poor as dirt, an extra $100 just might break the bank. Same as $7000 might break the bank on my Mercedes, if I was wealthier. If the tax is proportionate, then nobody should complain. If it isn't, then that's when it's "not fair". And if you're saying that "rich people" should pay a disproportionate amount of tax because clearly they "have the money", then just wait until you're an MD and told "well, you make $200,000/year, therefore you should pay 5x more tax than a poor person". My hunch is that most of us will whine about that, too, saying that "wait, we EARNED that money! We also have student loans to pay off! That's not fair!" Hey, whoever said that rich people don't have things to pay for? We act like the rich just run around with no burdens whatsoever....

I guess this is long winded, but you can say us californians bitch about the cuts...but just tell me how the cuts are fair and in the best interest of the state. If gas taxes increased, then everyone would share the burden.

Not necessarily true - I don't own a car, so I wouldn't pay gas tax. How would I be sharing the burden, then?

But that's not where the cuts are coming from, are they? Why don't you go tell the single mom with two kids that her kids are no longer gonna have health insurance, their schools will suck, they won't be able to afford college, and she will have more trouble paying for her community college education because of tuition raises.

For some reason, I really think this hypothetical mom's kids will turn out ok. Maybe they'll have to work to put themselves through college, like most of us did. Maybe they (or their mother) will have to find jobs that include limited healthcare as a benefit. Perhaps she'll have to put her own college education on the back burner to better help her children. We all have to make really tough choices in life. She'll have to do the same. (I don't mean to be cold-hearted: heck, i volunteer at a free clinic, and I know all about no health insurance for many people. I think it's a highly unideal situation to lack health insurance. However, for the uninsured, there are still options. So many people assume that just because you don't have insurance, you will die. I can give you a list of at least 10 different places in Berkeley alone where you can get medical care ranging from minor care to urgent care and either it be free or sliding-scale.)

So, you're saying that healthcare, public education, medical insurance, welfare, social services, and the like should not be cut. Fine. What should be cut, then, to make up for that difference? Let's face facts: basically everything has something to do with "healthcare, education, and welfare". It's gonna have to be affected. If the gov't can find a LARGE ENOUGH pool of activities or services that does not affect any of the above, then they should start there. But I believe that's impossible. We're going to have to suck it up, and I mean "we" as in "everyone who can afford to help out this state". If you want a program to stay, then pay for it yourself. My feeling is that there is not a large enough group of upperclass people in this state, percentage-wise, to cure ALL the problems of ALL lower and middle class people. When are we going to start taking responsibility for ourselves, rather than just "passing the buck" because "other people can afford it"??