UCBSO too research oriented?

[al-majhul]

I just found this forum and, may I say, THANK GOD for you people!

I am having major difficulty deciding on where I should go. I have interviews in February for SCO, SCCO, UCBSO, and ICO (still waiting to hear from PUCO, but they said they'd be giving me word in two weeks).

I was initially leaning toward UCBSO, but I've heard (from a number of people) that it is VERY research oriented (as opposed to clinical). Is this true? And how much of a difference does it make for Boards and actually practicing in a clinical setting upon graduating?

I'd also like a little input from students on what attending UCBSO is like -- is the faculty sympathetic toward student needs? do they often all schedule a billion exams all in the same week (as I have heard SCCO tends to do)? etc. Any other input would be appreciated regarding UCBSO -- and similarly for SCO, SCCO, PUCO, and ICO.

Thank you very much for all your time that you all put into this forum!
~ al-majhul

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[Rosanna]

Welcome al-majhul!

Please refer to my old posts:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=2224619#post2224619

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=2084329#post2084329

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=2079444#post2079444

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1837193#post1837193

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1785983#post1785983

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1730081#post1730081

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1703870#post1703870

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1405330#post1405330

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1150892#post1150892

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1096962#post1096962

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=921839#post921839

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=606222#post606222


I believe the same concerns you have about Berkeley are answered in those above links. I wish I could somehow put a sticky on those answers since it gets asked every so often. No, we are not a research school. We are very clinically orientated. Please refer to the arguments I state in the above links. Berkeley has always had great numbers for first-rate passing rate on the boards.

The only answer I would change from the above links is when we start seeing patients. Second years are now seeing patients starting the 2nd semester. Before, we would start during the summer after our 2nd year and do complete eye exams by ourselves. The clinic director decided to try (starting with my class) to have us start seeing patients in a group of 2-4 optometry students this semester to better prepare ourselves for clinic.

Please check your PM also. I have forwarded you lengthy discussions I have had with people who ask about Berkeley (if you provide me with your personal e-mail, I have some other discussions in my inbox there also).

And feel free to write a reply if you have any further questions.

Best wishes,

Rosanna

 

[JG777]

Hi Rosanna,

Is it true Berkeley grades on a curve? And does it get pretty competitive over there? Just curious because I hear that's how it is up there.

Hi Al-majhul,

Overall, SCCO has pre-scheduled exams 2x a week. Your first two quarters are pretty easy as far as exams go. However, this week and next, we are bombarded with 2 exams plus a lab practical. Occasionally, the class and professor agree on an exam date change. The good thing about SCCO's exam schedule is that you already know when your tests are so you prepare in advanced. The cruddy part is that our exams have roughly 16-40 questions (depending on the course) per exam. So really, there's no room for error and it's really easy to get the B's but you have to put the extra umph to get the A's.

We start observing 4th year students in clinic our first quarter and start assisting in exams during our 2nd year winter quarter. Usually, by the summer between 2nd and 3rd year, we start seeing our own patients in the clinic. I dunno about Berkeley's curriculum, but SCCO's gradually gets harder up until the 4th year. SCCO does require a research project that's due the 4th year, but you can pair up with a classmate to do that.

I hope that helps with some insight to SCCO. If you have other questions, let me know, I'll try my best to answer them as accurately as I can. Good Luck with your interviews!!!

 

[Rosanna]

Hello:

Yes, most of our classes are on a curve. It's not competitive in the sense that you are competing with other classmates (we all are supportive of each other), but the curriculum is quite tough. So far, we have had 3 people in my class join the first year class because of poor grades and perhaps a couple more who are in danger of the same thing.

Exam schedules depend on the professor(s). Some classes do have weekly quizzes but that's more often in the lab. Our grade for a class mainly depends on a writing assignment, one or two midterm grades, and a final. And the extremely tough classes are the ones that depend only on the final (ocular anatomy, that was a tough one).

I thought my first year at Berkeley was pretty easy compared to second year. Of course, while I was in the first year, there were moments when things got pretty tough (especially dealing with classes such as psychophysics). Second semester of first year was quite easy for me since I did really well in classes dealing with binocular vision problems (which I have, so I remembered things quite easily since it pertained to me). Second year is quite tough, and last semester was the first actual time I thought I was going to fail a class (systemic diseases). But then I pushed through and got close to a 90% on the final so everything ended up ok because I worked hard to improve my grade.

From what I heard from my big sib and other upper classmates, things are tough during the summer when you prepare for the national board exam and you are in clinic. We don't get a lot of days off really to study for the exam (I think perhaps 3-4 days), so you have to learn how to study on your off days. You are scheduled in clinic 3 days/week. You will have the opportunity to be in Eyewear, Primary Care, BV, observe CL exams for a bit before completing your own CL exam, IT and LV when you first start. Med Mod observation is mainly for 3rd year honor students and fourth year students. After the board exams, my big sib is just pretty much having a good time. She still has long days in the clinic but she's not worried about exams.

Having worked in the eye clinic during the summer, I can say that the schedule is quite full for clinicians. The day usually starts around 8 or 9AM and you have patients scheduled until 4 or 5PM. There are usually no more than 3 full exams scheduled each day for the clinician. Between the full exams, you are scheduled for check-ups or even urgent care. You present a case history each week to the attending doctor, so that may mean you are staying until 8PM on certain nights to finish everything.

You are required to complete a thesis before graduating. If I'm not mistaken, every optometry school requires you to complete one. It can be as simple as taking a survey or you can do something more scientific and get funding from the NEI. The choice is up to you. You can have up to 2 other group members.

Best wishes,

Rosanna

 

[Rosanna]

I was initially leaning toward UCBSO, but I've heard (from a number of people) that it is VERY research oriented (as opposed to clinical).

Quick question

Who were these people that told you this? Were they UCBSO students, faculty, professors, or alumni? I just wonder where people get this information from. I know I heard the same rumor when I was an undergraduate and it was mainly from admissions directors of other schools who came to present at pre-optometry meetings. Of course my friend asked the presenters (or sometimes optometry students) if they attended UCBSO and they all said no. I remember a time we asked this 3rd year student (won't name which school he went to) who was really bashing on UCBSO if he was rejected from the school. Of course Q&A ended right there.

- Rosanna

 

[Richard_Hom]

Dear forum,

At some point in the past, Dr. Penelope Flom (emeritus? at UHC), developed a profile or a successful private practice optometrist from her work with 1st year students and thereafter. I think this profile had been used in the past to identify potentially successful optometrists in practice. I believe that this focus should demonstrate to new students that UCBSO is fairly pragmatic. It is true that the school has a fairly extensive basic science faculty and that they have a bevy of external grants for research, but the criticism in the past has been the basic science staff are kind of separated from the clinical side and don't mix often.

I think the criticism or fault of optometric education at Berkeley (like other schools!) shouldn't be whether it is too research or not, but whether the breadth of clinical rotations, intensity and number of clinical epxeriences, exposure to a variety of clinical material (patients!) is adequate for your future needs.

Richard

 

[al-majhul]

Quick question

Who were these people that told you this? Were they UCBSO students, faculty, professors, or alumni? I just wonder where people get this information from. I know I heard the same rumor when I was an undergraduate and it was mainly from admissions directors of other schools who came to present at pre-optometry meetings. Of course my friend asked the presenters (or sometimes optometry students) if they attended UCBSO and they all said no. I remember a time we asked this 3rd year student (won't name which school he went to) who was really bashing on UCBSO if he was rejected from the school. Of course Q&A ended right there.

- Rosanna

Actually, I believe you are right. I initially heard it from a friend who was applying to schools, and was too late in getting his app in to Berkeley. Then I heard it from another school's counselor. And then I later heard it from an alumnus of another school as well. So I'm pretty much putting that idea out of my head now -- thanks!

 

[JG777]

my two cents on having an optometry school that is strong in research is actually good for the profession. i believe that research pushes the profession forward as far as new technology that will be beneficial for the patients. and honestly, i think having research at schools is good. it gives the students a different way to think critically about things, and i think that's important in the health field. having it as a requirement.. not so sure since some students are not even interested in doing it and it does seem time consuming as far as cutting into clinical exposure time.