UCLA vs Buffalo

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2009sf

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So right now, I've narrowed my school choices down to two: UCLA and SUNY Buffalo. I'm a NY resident (just so you know).

I did a lot of thinking about UCLA and Buffalo this weekend. The major thing that seems to be setting the two schools apart are: 1) Clinical preparedness 2) Outreach initiatives 3) finances (a difference of about $100,000 total) and 4) social life.

Could you talk to me about any of these things?

1) Can you give an overview of what classes take toward clinical and how students participate in clinic in their 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th years?
2) Also, can you explain to me how the clinic is set up (chairs/sections)?
3) Can you give some insight into what the requirements are like each year also?
4)As well as how many patients you'd see each year?

Buffalo is also my state school. So this one is really important:
5) Is the $100,000 difference really important if UCLA is considered a much better school (ie: is it worth the money to go spend over my state school, Buffalo)?

6) What are UCLA/Buffalo doing now since the boards are changing to Pass/Fail? Also how is UCLA's pass/fail thing going to be affected by the changing of the boards?

Three last questions I'd like to ask are:
7) is there anything you would change when you were deciding about going to dental schools? would you pick UCLA/Buffalo again - why and why not?
8) what is one thing you wish you knew before you went to UCLA/Buffalo that you know now
9) Do you feel like you can succeed at UCLA/Buffalo? I was above the curve at Buffalo but slightly below it at UCLA. I don't want to do poorly because I am interested in specializing.
10) How many people from each class goes on to specialize. Do you know?

Thanks if you can answer these!
 
i'm not a dental student yet but ill help out with what i know for sure. ucla is changing to H/P/F in response to the board going P/F. It will depend on the class but in generall top 10% which means 8 or 9 people will be getting the H on their transcript. Few class above 93 or 95 is H so more people will be able to get that H.

Other things to consider since you're from NY - there won't be any summer break but there will be 1 or 2 week breaks throughout the year.
 
100k?? c'mon go to buffalo. it's closer to family too 😉
 
I don't know why you took Pitt out of the picture... I thought it was an amazing school. Seemed like it had a great student environment and well-rounded program.

Anyway, between buffalo and UCLA, both are great schools. 100k is a pretty big difference, and that difference will almost certainly widen next year with the CA state budget cuts (there is a proposed $500 million dollar cut from the UC system). I would just think about it as.. would the pros of UCLA be worth that 100k+ difference?
 
corpus, that's totally how i'm looking at it, but no one has given me an answer from ucla if they think their education is actually WORTH the 100k difference. also corpus, i took pitt out of the picture because I haven't heard back from them yet. maybe this week?
 
also, like why is it everyone's concern to go to a cheaper dental school -- yes debt is annoying and bad and etc, but isn't dental a lucrative profession? like, why so much worry about the price?
 
2009sf said:
also, like why is it everyone's concern to go to a cheaper dental school -- yes debt is annoying and bad and etc, but isn't dental a lucrative profession? like, why so much worry about the price?
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because 100k is a lot, esp. with interest starting to be accruing right when you start dental school. u are a NY resident so i am assuming u will be practicing in NY, which along with LA are very saturated with dentists. You aren't going to make much right out of school and it will take a while to pay back that 100k on top of amt you already owed. there are plenty of threads about loans so look at those and live in 'reality'.

no one at ucla dental went to another school, so im not sure how they'd say their education was "worth it". what are u expecting from ucla that is worth 100k? plenty of ppl specialize at buffalo so why wouldnt u be able to
 
As a Buffalo grad, it is not worth spending an extra 100K to attend UCLA. If you really desire to experience living in California, use the 100K saved to go do a residency there for a year or two.

An additional 100K debt is A LOT. That doesn't even include the interest that piles on top of it. And if you specialize, the majority of specialty positions in dentistry require taking out more debt - hundreds of thousands if you end up at a private school which is possible since you get almost no choice in residency positions. Dentistry can be lucrative, but not when you are at the bottom just starting out as a new graduate. Besides repaying student loans, there are a lot of other expenses that come with being a private practice dentist such as health insurance, malpractice insurance, disability insurance, business insurance, etc. on top of your normal living costs. The 100K you save in tuition will be better spent starting your own dental practice which is where the potential for the lucrative paychecks are. You have to have good business sense to get to the lucrative paycheck, something neither school will teach you.
 
2009sf said:
also, like why is it everyone's concern to go to a cheaper dental school -- yes debt is annoying and bad and etc, but isn't dental a lucrative profession? like, why so much worry about the price?
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You've probably already decided but I still have to comment on this one. An extra $100,000 seems a little on the small side for differences in cost because LA is one of the most expensive cities to live in (my wife is from there) and Buffalo is one of the cheapest (where I live now). Either way I trust you've done your research on living expenses. But if you have an extra $100,000 you have to see that as being the last $100,000 you will pay off when paying down your loans. Hypothetically if you're paying 8% interest and it takes you 15 years to pay off your loans (very optimistic based on your knowledge of money) than you would be paying an extra $120,000 JUST in interest. An extra $220,000 is a big number, no matter how much you make! And even if UCLA did make you a slightly better clinician you will have to do a one year residency to even practice in NY. From what I've heard, that is where you will really learn how to be a competent dentist because dental school has a lot more red tape in the clinic. But if money isn't as important as fun than go to UCLA. I know I'd rather be in Southern California!
 
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Go to Buffalo. I'll be going to UCLA but I'd jump on the chance to save $100k.
 
really? everyone still says buffalo? i'm so surprised. i feel like if i want to specialize then maybe the 100k is worth it since ucla has such a great rate of getting students into specialization programs. I want to be either ortho or pedo. i love everything about buffalo - except for the fact that i fee like ucla is a much higher "ranked" school (based upon the calibur of students they accept) and because they have h/p/np without a gpa/class ranking system, plus a great rate of sending people to good post-doc programs. buffalo on the other hand has a regular abcd grading system and sends less people to specialty probably because less people from the school want to specialize. i've never been in the top of my class so i'm nervous the ranking system at buffalo might act against me. i'm an A- student. ucla for me was a reach and buffalo was a little easier than a target when applying.
 
Buffalo. For all the reasons posted above. Btw, why ask this question when it seems you really want UCLA?
 
Buffalo 100%. 100k is alot of doe.

Actually, its more than 100k. Because its got interest piling up. By time you pay off that 100k, it would have ballooned to 130k+ (say thank you interest)
 
2009sf said:
really? everyone still says buffalo? i'm so surprised. i feel like if i want to specialize then maybe the 100k is worth it since ucla has such a great rate of getting students into specialization programs. I want to be either ortho or pedo. i love everything about buffalo - except for the fact that i fee like ucla is a much higher "ranked" school (based upon the calibur of students they accept) and because they have h/p/np without a gpa/class ranking system, plus a great rate of sending people to good post-doc programs. buffalo on the other hand has a regular abcd grading system and sends less people to specialty probably because less people from the school want to specialize. i've never been in the top of my class so i'm nervous the ranking system at buffalo might act against me. i'm an A- student. ucla for me was a reach and buffalo was a little easier than a target when applying.
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You realize that what you are saying is that buffalo students don't WANT to specialize not that they CAN'T specialize?. It is true that many people here don't want to specialize but it's not because they are inherently inable to do so but because they realized that they didn't want to be limited to only one area of dentistry (or they are sick of school). I know of people in the top of the class as well as recent grads who chose general dentistry b/c they wanted it not because the choice was made for them. A school sending less people to specialties b/c the people themselves don't want to specialize is not a tick in the negative column it's just how the student population at that point in time chooses to pursue their career.
 
Literally, every single comment on here is in favor of Buffalo. You seem set on UCLA though. Guess I'll see ya there next year 😉
 
If this question was posted 10 years ago, I would have pick UCLA over Buffalo because I am a Southern Calif resident and the tuitions for most dental schools were a lot cheaper a decade ago. But if I were given this choice today, I would pick Buffalo because of the $100k difference.

A lot of people at UCLA get accepted to postgrad programs because a high percentage of them score 90+ on the board exam. It is not hard to get 90 because the P/F curriculum at UCLA allows the student to have more time to study for the board exam. Since the board will become P/F in 2012, I am afraid that it is no longer advantageous to attend UCLA.
 
charlestweed said:
If this question was posted 10 years ago, I would have pick UCLA over Buffalo because I am a Southern Calif resident and the tuitions for most dental schools were a lot cheaper a decade ago. But if I were given this choice today, I would pick Buffalo because of the $100k difference.

A lot of people at UCLA get accepted to postgrad programs because a high percentage of them score 90+ on the board exam. It is not hard to get 90 because the P/F curriculum at UCLA allows the student to have more time to study for the board exam. Since the board will become P/F in 2012, I am afraid that it is no longer advantageous to attend UCLA.
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i believe that they are no longer P/F, but rather Honors/P/F (Which is basically like A, C, F...)
 
i wouldn't say i want to go to ucla or to buffalo. i think the advantage of going to ucla is that i have never been "top 10" in my class and so to think i would be in that bracket at buffalo can be a silly thought. atleast at ucla they dont have rank/gpa. i almost feel like i could benefit from that. i am super nervous to go to ucla though - my gut actually says go to buffalo. however, the second i'm like okay, going to buffalo, i feel like i'm settling for the less prestigious of the two options.
 
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2009sf said:
i wouldn't say i want to go to ucla or to buffalo. i think the advantage of going to ucla is that i have never been "top 10" in my class and so to think i would be in that bracket at buffalo can be a silly thought. atleast at ucla they dont have rank/gpa. i almost feel like i could benefit from that. i am super nervous to go to ucla though - my gut actually says go to buffalo. however, the second i'm like okay, going to buffalo, i feel like i'm settling for the less prestigious of the two options.
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Prestige is always relative. Is the "prestige" worth 100k? This is a question you must answer! Pull up any thread comparing a "prestige" school to a cheap school (Some good examples are Columbia VS Buffalo or Stony Brook, Penn Vs. UMDNJ, Maryland Vs. Penn etc.) and you will find good arguments for both sides...hopefully this can help you as it did me.

Someone on this forum once said to never judge your self worth by the dental school you are going to because either way you will be a successful dentist if you want to be one....or something like that lol.

You won't be a better person just because you went somewhere more prestigious and neither will you be settling if you go somewhere that does not have said "prestige."

Good luck with your decision!👍
 
Go to UCLA, the p/f grading system will surely hide your mediocrity allowing you to coast through dental school as an average student and then land a sweet slot in your choice of specialties. Furthermore, you don't have to worry about the boards being p/f or not. Even if they end up being scored when you take them, you will do awesome on them because the prestigious academics at UCLA prepare their students so well that even students in the middle of the pack almost always rock 90+ on the boards. UCLA is like being handed a specialty slot and you would be a fool to pass it up. They do all the work for you. That extra 100k is nothing when you think about the higher salary you will command after your training. Just having UCLA on your diploma will get you a higher starting salary at most practices and that isn't even including the UCLA alumni hiring system. It is a no-brainer.
 
I've even heard UCLA actually implants a computer chip in your brain that allows you to instantly be a top-notch dentist without having to do any work. Stay away from Buffalo or other "non-prestigious" schools where you would have to study hard to do well. What was I thinking choosing Buffalo???
 
Regmata said:
Go to UCLA, the p/f grading system will surely hide your mediocrity allowing you to coast through dental school as an average student and then land a sweet slot in your choice of specialties. Furthermore, you don't have to worry about the boards being p/f or not. Even if they end up being scored when you take them, you will do awesome on them because the prestigious academics at UCLA prepare their students so well that even students in the middle of the pack almost always rock 90+ on the boards. UCLA is like being handed a specialty slot and you would be a fool to pass it up. They do all the work for you. That extra 100k is nothing when you think about the higher salary you will command after your training. Just having UCLA on your diploma will get you a higher starting salary at most practices and that isn't even including the UCLA alumni hiring system. It is a no-brainer.
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Sarcasm??
 
UBDent19 said:
I've even heard UCLA actually implants a computer chip in your brain that allows you to instantly be a top-notch dentist without having to do any work. Stay away from Buffalo or other "non-prestigious" schools where you would have to study hard to do well. What was I thinking choosing Buffalo???
Click to expand...

Where can I get this chip and how much does it cost? Thanks in advance.
 
soooo lol is that sarcasm? lol or would you seriously pick ucla over buff? haha it looks like you're a buff student, but in the southwest -- mighty confusing to be sarcastic now lol
 
Yes, a bit of light-hearted sarcasm. Thanks for not getting upset 😎

I am from San Diego but am headed to Buffalo. I'm actually making the decision because my wife and I already have kids and want to be closer to her family during school. Even being out of state, Buffalo will be quite a bit cheaper for me compared to in-state tuition at UCLA. If I were a New York resident, I would choose Buffalo/Stonybrook over any other school in the country considering the cost savings. It's a no-brainer. Of course, if somebody else is paying the bills then I would think about living where I want to. 🙂
 
UBDent19 said:
Yes, a bit of light-hearted sarcasm. Thanks for not getting upset 😎

I am from San Diego but am headed to Buffalo. I'm actually making the decision because my wife and I already have kids and want to be closer to her family during school. Even being out of state, Buffalo will be quite a bit cheaper for me compared to in-state tuition at UCLA. If I were a New York resident, I would choose Buffalo/Stonybrook over any other school in the country considering the cost savings. It's a no-brainer. Of course, if somebody else is paying the bills then I would think about living where I want to. 🙂
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I know you know Buffalo allows you to switch residency status to in-state after 1 year right? (this = in-state tuition for D2, D3, and D4)
 
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Yes, that is how it ends up being cheaper than my in-state California tuition. Just rented a place in Buffalo as well: $1000/month for a 2 bed duplex with a big backyard, garage and huge basement in a great part of town close to school. UCLA equivalent = studio apartment. :idea:
 
UBDent19 said:
Yes, that is how it ends up being cheaper than my in-state California tuition. Just rented a place in Buffalo as well: $1000/month for a 2 bed duplex with a big backyard, garage and huge basement in a great part of town close to school. UCLA equivalent = studio apartment. :idea:
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1000 bucks! That place better be a palace or else you are way overpaying for rent here in B-lo. Hopefully it at least includes all utilities...
 
If you can find a 2BD/2BA duplex with a basement and garage in Williamsville for less than that, let me know. I've been looking for months. I know I can get a cheaper place if we're willing to live in a lower rent area but we're not.
 
Of course, one can get a 4 bedroom house for under $400/month in Buffalo if they're willing to live in a horrible neighborhood. But someone could do that in LA as well if they're willing to dodge bullets on their way to school everyday.

By comparing Westwood and Williamsville, I'm trying to compare apples to apples, not apples to spoiled, fermenting brussel sprouts. 😀

p.s. No, our rent does not include utilities (except for water)
 
UBDent19 said:
If you can find a 2BD/2BA duplex with a basement and garage in Williamsville for less than that, let me know. I've been looking for months. I know I can get a cheaper place if we're willing to live in a lower rent area but we're not.
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Ah you are living in williamsville. You said you had kids right? That is a consideration that most people do not have to make (school districts and such). I'm sure that your apartment is very nice. And on the bright side if i isn't you can always move
 
Yes, us non-trads with kids don't have the luxury of being able to save as much money on housing expenses. 🙁

So you're at Buffalo, now? Do you think the OP should choose cost over reputation?
 
I think the tattoo is just what he needs. Or alternatively he could get it embroidered onto a pair of scrubs haha
 
so you guys think cost is more important than reputation? but ive been told that i shouldn't worry about costs, especially as a dentist. go where i'll get a good reputation because the profession will pay itself back quickly.
 
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2009sf said:
so you guys think cost is more important than reputation? but ive been told that i shouldn't worry about costs, especially as a dentist. go where i'll get a good reputation because the profession will pay itself back quickly.
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Just out of curiosity, 2009sf, how long does it take you to get dressed in the morning?
 
I am not sure what you are talking about with regards to reputation. The last time US News ranked dental schools, Buffalo was in the top five, UCLA was not, and it one of the most respected dental schools in the country. There research is second to none and with Bob Genco leading the way, its researchers have published paper in all the top dental and medical journals, and have more NIDCR money than most schools.

I chose to go there, over other top dental schools around the country. Interviewed at all the top OMFS programs in the country, including UCLA and ended up at what most consider is probably one of top surgery programs in the country by choice.

Again, not sure where you are getting your reputation info from, but I think you are getting some bad information. Dental school is what you make out of it. There are bad students and good students at every school.
 
For all the current Buffalo students:
I will be attending Buffalo Dental in the fall as a first year, and I would like to sign up for housing...
As a first year student, overall, am I better off living in a University Apartment (one of the grad student apartments) or living off campus in an apartment with a fellow roommate (most likely on north where it is safest)? In terms of lifestyle, efficiency, and ease, which option is best?
Also, do I need a car as a Buffalo dental student? Or can I make out without a car?... If so, how can I get a loan to pay for the car?
Any detailed insight is greatly appreciated!
Thanks so much.
 
If I were you I'd choose UCLA. I mean you seem set on wanting to go there. And it would be much more fun to live in LA than Buffalo. Although Buffalo still isn't too bad. But hey, I'd choose UCLA if I was in your shoes.
 
I am in no way knocking UCLA as an institution, but I do think that people from the western half of the country overestimate the national reputation of UCLA. As a disclaimer, I am in no way an authority on academic programs, however, the reputation of a school is only as good as the reputation amongst the general public, of which I am a part. While I have always thought of it as a reputable institution, I have never considered UCLA to be Ivy, especially not in dentistry. Not that UCLA isn't a great school, but its reputation may not be as revered as you think. Furthermore, dental school reputation doesn't correlate to higher salaries like many pre-dents seem to think. Ironically, despite all of this, Buffalo still has an excellent reputation amongst the dental academia, who are in fact pretty much the only people that care about school reputation once you get out. In my opinion, UCLA probably won't offer you any benefit in the so-called prestige category that you like to place it in and we could argue all day about where you will get better training, although it would be to no end because neither of us know. That being said, the only thing you are sure to lose is the $100,000...and a few rougher winters.
 
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Buffalo will most likely not be offering regional board exams on site after next year.

Just something to think about. That and the quantitative amount of clinical experience is much less than some of the private 'for profit' schools.
 
That is a tough statement to argue against. The Buffalo economy isn't exactly booming, NY is broke and cutting benefits and Buffalo isn't a terribly large city to begin with so the patient pool to draw from is relatively small. Students at other schools often boast much higher numbers of procedures before graduating. Consequently, the quantitative experience is often not as much coming from Buffalo.

However, the qualitative clinical experience at Buffalo is fantastic. When you don't have a ton of procedures that you have to bust through to graduate, you are able to take the time to learn how to do the procedures well. I would not be concerned with the clinical education that you will receive at Buffalo, it's quality is rarely questioned.

As for board exams, the school has been threatening to cease giving them for the past decade. I wouldn't count on them discontinuing boards at the school, especially after they spent 10's of thousands of dollars gearing up to give the WREB this past year.
 
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