UCLA vs UCSF vs Columbia vs Penn

[basketball2017]

Hello all! I have been accepted to all four of these schools and was hoping for suggestions about pros/cons of each school and which school I should attend next fall. I want to attend a school that will give me a great education but also allow me to balance a social life.

Let me know your thoughts please. Thanks so much!!

*I have received a military HPSP 4 year scholarship so cost is not an issue
*Also, I am from Los Angeles, CA so I am familiar with life and weather in SF and LA so those two schools will be easier to adjust to; on the other hand, the two east coast schools will be good opportunity to experience other cities

My thoughts so far:

UCLA

Pros
-Good for specializing (I'll most likely do military specialty not civilian if I end up specializing)
-Great weather/location
-On main undergrad campus

Cons
-H/P/F (hard to differentiate yourself, Colonel told me they like ranks or at least GPA)
-Seems cutthroat academically from talking to some students
-Facilities seem old
-Clinic skills

UCSF

Pros
-Very chill academic environment IMO
-I like that the gym is across the street (good for balance between school and gym)
-Ok location/weather is colder than LA
-Clinic skills

Cons
-P/F (again hard to differentiate)
-Reputation is not overall as well-known

Columbia

Pros
-Great academic education
-Research
-NYC (however its actual location not so much pro)

Cons
-Mainly the intense curriculum (combined with med)
-Clinical skills
-Ranking by thirds (if I end up bottom or middle third)

Penn

Pros
-Great balance clinic/academics, same as UCSF imo
-On the undergrad campus like UCLA
-Dont rank past top 10; also I heard about grade inflation (avg student is 3.7-8ish, which is decent)
-Updating main clinic

Cons
-City of Philly not as great of other 3
-Class size is bigger than the other 3

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[DentalAptitude]

Congrats on that, quite impressive. Just based on your main concern "great yet manageable," I'd choose UCLA. I've heard the lifestyle is awesome, lol . Columbia seems to fit your profile the least.


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[personalstatementsbyeric]

Congrats on that, quite impressive. Just based on your main concern "great yet manageable," I'd choose UCLA. I've heard the lifestyle is awesome, lol . Columbia seems to fit your profile the least.


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UCSF or UCLA

 

[basketball2017]

Congrats on that, quite impressive. Just based on your main concern "great yet manageable," I'd choose UCLA. I've heard the lifestyle is awesome, lol . Columbia seems to fit your profile the least.


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Thanks so much!!! Really appreciate it!

 

[FTRStoTEETH]

Nice job with those acceptances. I'm from San Fran and have been in the Navy for 11 years and lived on the East Coast most of that time. I'm applying for Navy HSCP and will begin dental school next year. Having lived out here for a long time, I recommend UCLA or UCSF. I personally would choose UCSF mostly because of location and your Pro/cons lists. Because they're all great schools and unless you want a big change of pace, stay Cali IMO.


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[MahiMahi]

Would you want to do research as a dental student? Does that factor into your decision?

 

[basketball2017]

Would you want to do research as a dental student? Does that factor into your decision?

Research is not my main priority in terms of choosing a school. However, I would like a school that gives me the opportunity to pursue it should I desire. I feel all 4 schools give me that opportunity; UCSF seems to have the most research opportunities?

 

[basketball2017]

Nice job with those acceptances. I'm from San Fran and have been in the Navy for 11 years and lived on the East Coast most of that time. I'm applying for Navy HSCP and will begin dental school next year. Having lived out here for a long time, I recommend UCLA or UCSF. I personally would choose UCSF mostly because of location and your Pro/cons lists. Because they're all great schools and unless you want a big change of pace, stay Cali IMO.


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How do you feel the difference between East Coast and West Coast? Why do you suggest California? Thanks!

 

[FTRStoTEETH]

Totally subjective and really not even that important, but it's starting to get cold out here and I just don't love the winters back here. I just think that all of those schools are great choices, so you can't go wrong. And I truly believe that specializing will happen if that's what you want no matter where you are as long as you go out and earn it. So, maybe the weather becomes the tie breaker!


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[DentalAptitude]

How do you feel the difference between East Coast and West Coast? Why do you suggest California? Thanks!

I've lived on both east and west now. As someone else said, totally subjective. But for me west >>> east. Skiing and mountain biking for days out here. The people are more laid back here. Manhattan is over-rated somewhat.


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[Faefly]

It depends on how much you can stand staying away from your family.
Some people would like a chance to get away from family and their old lives, others will feel bad living away from their parents and only seeing them once or twice a year.
The universities you got accepted at all great. So congratulations and I hope you choose the right one for you.
What you gut is telling you?

 

[roy williams II]

If you are really undecided I would speak to more students from each school. Personally, I believe the type of students you surround your self with is also important.

While you may view H/P/F as a con you could also view it as a pro, students are likely much more collaborative and willing to help one another. You will have the opportunity to specialize regardless of which of these schools you choose.

Ps. STAY ON THE WEST COAST. I am so excited to be leaving the east coast and moving to California to attend UCLA.


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[basketball2017]

I've lived on both east and west now. As someone else said, totally subjective. But for me west >>> east. Skiing and mountain biking for days out here. The people are more laid back here. Manhattan is over-rated somewhat.


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I agree. When I was visiting New York, I felt very rushed, even just walking the streets. California definitely seems more relaxed.

 

[DentalAptitude]

To be fair, that effect does wear off. You get used to the rushed feeling. The lifestyle of it all doesn't change though, idk how important to you that is.


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[MrSnuggles]

UCLA/UCSF depending on which one felt like it fit better IMO. I definitely got the feel that Columbia has a great student body and a strong academic curriculum, but I know for a fact that they don't get to do as much in the clinic and that's a big no for me. Don't know much about Penn.

 

[DentistScientist]

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[Faefly]

I agree. When I was visiting New York, I felt very rushed, even just walking the streets. California definitely seems more relaxed.

of course you are more relaxed in Cali when you have 2 hours of your life wasted in the traffic during rush hours


But UcSF would be my advice since they are 3 years only, right?

 

[changtw]

UCLA dental is nothing like how things are in their pre-health undergrad programs (thank. god.).

Our class has not been cutthroat at all, and it has very much been a group effort to get everyone through.

 

[basketball2017]

of course you are more relaxed in Cali when you have 2 hours of your life wasted in the traffic during rush hours


But UcSF would be my advice since they are 3 years only, right?

Yea driving in LA sucks haha. UCSF is 4 years. UoP is the 3 year program.

 

[basketball2017]

UCLA dental is nothing like how things are in their pre-health undergrad programs (thank. god.).

Our class has not been cutthroat at all, and it has very much been a group effort to get everyone through.

That is good to hear. I always thought it seemed cutthroat but maybe that is from the undergrad impression.

 

[Faefly]

Yea driving in LA sucks haha. UCSF is 4 years. UoP is the 3 year program.

Thank you for correcting me.

 

[FanOfCostco]

I would say ucla. Tony stark lives in Malibu so I think it be pretty safe to live that close to iron man. I know he has a place in NYC too but last few times he was there, he opened up a portal to another world and created a murder bot.

 

[toothdoctor123]

If research, UCLA and UCSF are far superior to Columbia and Penn.

Anyone who denies this is just ignorant lol

Call me ignorant then.

I want to attend a school that will give me a great education but also allow me to balance a social life.

If you're looking for a great social life, no school beats Columbia! Yes, the biomedical curriculum is intense, but we also party on the weekends like we're in college again. I never felt particularly stressed out here. Don't get hung up on the ranking in thirds; you can still match into your preferred residency program if you're in the bottom third of the class. This will probably be even more true once the ADAT becomes standard. Having a campus environment seems important to you--though the CUMC campus is separate from the Morningside campus, they are only a 10 min subway ride from each other, and there is a free shuttle service. I go down there all the time to study and meet other grad students.

Look, you must be pretty damn smart to get into one of these schools, let alone all four. Cost is not a factor for you. You should choose the place you think you'll be happiest because I'm sure you'll be successful wherever you go. Sounds like you're leaning towards UCSF, but even though Columbia seems to be the odd one out of these four schools, I think you'd like it here too.

 

[DMDClassof2021]

I also got into Penn, UCSF, and Columbia (+4 other cheaper schools) and I vote for Penn because the program is very well known internationally and more so than the other schools you listed. Their instructors are THE bosses in the field. Penn is the place to be if you're interested in Stem Cell or TMJ research. Some major discoveries were made by Penn Dental faculty.
Penn is Ivy and top notch. By the way, both of the dentists I shadow share this view although neither of them went to Penn.

Others may feel free to disagree.

 

[DentistScientist]

Both Penn and Columbia do not even have the DSTP program.
Therefore, the research opportunities that dental students get to have are:

(1) Basic Science
- learning one or two techniques, collecting data, making figures, and writing figure legends --> Co-Author (3rd or later) in one of journals

(2) Clinical Science
- learning the protocol, chart review, case reviews --> 1st author or 2nd author in a clinical research journal with low impact factor

Is (2) option better? No. Everyone knows that basic science requires much more work. So (1) = (2)

Here is also the amount of research funding that dental schools get.
https://www.nidcr.nih.gov/grantsand...talSchools/GrantstoDentalInstitutions2015.htm

 

[toothdoctor123]

Both Penn and Columbia do not even have the DSTP program.
Therefore, the research opportunities that dental students get to have are:

(1) Basic Science: equivalent to high schools, ugrads, and technicians
- just learning one or two techniques, collecting data, making figures, and writing figure legends --> Co-Author (3rd or later) in one of journals

(2) Clinical Science: equivalent to high schools, ugrads, and CRCs.
- just learning the protocol, chart review, case reviews --> 1st author or 2nd author in a clinical research journal with low impact factor

Is (2) option better? No. Everyone knows that basic science requires much more work. So (1) = (2)

Here is also the amount of research funding that dental schools get.
https://www.nidcr.nih.gov/grantsand...talSchools/GrantstoDentalInstitutions2015.htm

Dude are you being serious? Do you want to tell me more about how my colleagues and I do unimportant, high school-level work at Columbia? I don't know where you got the idea that you need to be pursuing a PhD in order to lead a significant research project, but that is ironically a very elitist and unscientific viewpoint.

 

[DentistScientist]

Dude are you being serious? Do you want to tell me more about how my colleagues and I do unimportant, high school-level work at Columbia? I don't know where you got the idea that you need to be pursuing a PhD in order to lead a significant research project, but that is ironically a very elitist and unscientific viewpoint.

Hey, I apologize for my wording. I am currently applying to DSTP programs. I was honestly getting frustrated because while ivy league dental schools do not have in-state preferences, they also do not have DSTP programs.

Top tier State schools have DSTPs and most of them require DMD/DDS admissions first. Therefore if one is applying to DSTP programs, one must break OOS barriers first. I have not received my rejections yet but I am only hearing good news from two places.

Quite a lot of high school students nowadays (mostly juniors and seniors) spend their summer at places like NIH-AMGEN, Jackson, Harvard, Columbia, or Penn and do (1) and (2).
Getting into toptier Ivy League schools is increasingly getting more difficult, and kids nowadays apply with one or even three co-author papers. And their work is quite important so they earn those co-author papers.

 

[basketball2017]

I also got into Penn, UCSF, and Columbia (+4 other cheaper schools) and I vote for Penn because the program is very well known internationally and more so than the other schools you listed. Their instructors are THE bosses in the field. Penn is the place to be if you're interested in Stem Cell or TMJ research. Some major discoveries were made by Penn Dental faculty.
Penn is Ivy and top notch. By the way, both of the dentists I shadow share this view although neither of them went to Penn.

Others may feel free to disagree.

Why did you choose Penn over Columbia? Isnt Columbia also well known internationally with an research emphasis as well

 

[basketball2017]

Call me ignorant then.


If you're looking for a great social life, no school beats Columbia! Yes, the biomedical curriculum is intense, but we also party on the weekends like we're in college again. I never felt particularly stressed out here. Don't get hung up on the ranking in thirds; you can still match into your preferred residency program if you're in the bottom third of the class. This will probably be even more true once the ADAT becomes standard. Having a campus environment seems important to you--though the CUMC campus is separate from the Morningside campus, they are only a 10 min subway ride from each other, and there is a free shuttle service. I go down there all the time to study and meet other grad students.

Look, you must be pretty damn smart to get into one of these schools, let alone all four. Cost is not a factor for you. You should choose the place you think you'll be happiest because I'm sure you'll be successful wherever you go. Sounds like you're leaning towards UCSF, but even though Columbia seems to be the odd one out of these four schools, I think you'd like it here too.

Do you ever feel second class to the Columbia medical students?

 

[DentistScientist]

Do you ever feel second class to the Columbia medical students?

Dude, Dental Students in Columbia score higher on class exams than medical students in Columbia.

Of course having top, middle, bottom ranking system motivate them while med students do not need to care about their preclinical grades and just focus on step 1, but still, they score higher than medical kids who got 40s on MCATs.

 

[DentistScientist]

Why did you choose Penn over Columbia? Isnt Columbia also well known internationally with an research emphasis as well

In dental research, UCSF is by far the best in the country. UCSF, Michigan, and UCLA are ahead of Harvard-Forsyth, Columbia, and Penn.
But again, all Ivys have dimensionally more research than tech schools like Nova, Western, UNE, and UDM.

 

[ucsfbound2017]

.

 

[HowIMetYourMolar]

Philly may not be as big of a city as NYC, but the cost of living is a lot cheaper than SF and LA. I know money isn't an issue for you but it's the east coast feel without being as hustle and bustle as NYC. Center City is awesome and there are a ton of young people here / healthcare professionals in close proximity to each other. Plus, if you do feel like going to NYC it's a quick 2 hour bus ride away and you can catch a bus there for less than $5. DC is also 3 hours away. Penn's class size is perfect in my opinion. Not too big that you feel run over, neglected or have to fight/compete with classmates over space, chairs or whatnot, but not too small that you feel like there's no diversity. We also have a ton of HPSP students (10 in just the D1 class) so you'll be in good company

 

[dudeethatsrad]

I chose UCSF

Which schools did you choose between?

 

[ucsfbound2017]

.

 

[DentistScientist]

Eh...not really.

Are you sure? That's what I heard from a Columbia student during my interview.

 

[blablabla1]

Are you sure? That's what I heard from a Columbia student during my interview.

Feralis has a lot of "street cred" around these parts. I'm inclined to believe him. Especially since he's a current Columbia student

 

[stitcherator]

where did you end up going??