UC's out of state

[Noitcelfer]

How difficult is it applying out of state to the UC's? Would a ~4.0 and ~40 MCAT have a good shot at UCLA or UCSF? (I'm from Indiana; doubt there's all that many applicants from here). I'd appreciate any info.

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[UCSBPre-Med]

This might sound mean, but believe me I don't mean it to be.

But why do you want to apply to UCs? It is SOO hard for us in-state residents to get into our own schools, why would you want to make it even harder? There are so many good applicants that every year get turned down by the UCs simply because there aren't enough spots to take all the exceptional applicants. These students end up paying exorbitant fees to go out of state, just so they can go to med school.

There are many state schools that can fit in just about everybody who is qualified. You should stick to your state schools and not apply to ours. Its hard enough as it is for us! If you were to get accepted, you're taking one more spot from some qualified Californian and forces him/her to go out of state.

 

[shamthis]

ahh collegiality...

 

[UCSBPre-Med]

People will apply to those schools that interest them the most. California is a catch-22 in that it is getting a ton of well-qualified out of state students (which will greatly increase the state's health care in the long run), but the in-state students are getting hurt in the process.

Point taken, Gleevec. But I am not afraid to compete with out of state residents. I have confidence in my stats. Its just that, as you know, the med school entrance process is somewhat random. Even if 100 Cali residents have 4.0s and 35+ MCAT scores, if a few out of staters apply with similar stats, some of them will get in to UCSF or UCLA simply because of odds. Its not about competition with quality, just simple numbers and odds.

I wouldnt worry though UCSB, you already have a huge advantage to your own public schools (as they accept preferentially from CA anyway) and Im sure you will get into your top choice irregardless of out-of-state competition.

You're right here. UC Davis, UCSD, and UCI have already realized this, as they take almost no out of staters.

 

[shamthis]

irregardless

 

[UCSBPre-Med]

Originally posted by Gleevec
The only "slots" at CA schools that out-of-state students are taking are the ones for the lower-tier competitors. While this sucks, it also increases the rank/quality/prestige of the CA school also, so there is a hidden bonus to the unfortunate circumstances CA students are in.

Hidden bonus for who? The med school? It sure isn't a hidden bonus for that poor California student with great stats, who has to go to school 3000 miles away from his friends and family, and pay triple what he would have paid if he had gone to medical school in the Golden State.

 

[Random Access]

Originally posted by UCSBPre-Med
Hidden bonus for who? The med school? It sure isn't a hidden bonus for that poor California student with great stats, who has to go to school 3000 miles away from his friends and family, and pay triple what he would have paid if he had gone to medical school in the Golden State.

Well, you're not entitled to a med school education in your home state...

 

[Nefertari]

This discussion doesn't need to become contentious b/c UCSF & UCLA usu. accept a small percentage of stellar out-of-state apps each year anyhow, due to their national reputations. The odds are indeed immense against out-of-state apps. Also, wouldn't they have a higher chance of ending up on UC waitlists?

 

[closertofine]

Wow, if a 4.0, 40 MCAT out-of-state applicant doesn't have a good shot at UCSF, who does?! I guess it's just a matter of chance?!

I also don't think it's right to discourage out-of-staters from applying to CA schools...I personally would love to go to UCSF, but it's already such a long shot for someone from out of CA that I doubt I'll get in.

My GPA is good now...haven't taken the MCAT yet...but is there anything else an out-of-stater can do to get into these schools?

 

[UCSBPre-Med]

Originally posted by Gleevec
As Random Access said, you are not entitled to going to medical school in your state. They already give in-staters an advantage anyway, theres not much else CA can do except say explicitly "no out of staters excepted EVER".

And why don't they do that? There's a reason why a lot of smaller, midwestern states only admit in-state residents. For the same reason I'm talking about now. Sure, no one's entitled to go to school in there home state, but thats not what I'm saying. I'm saying that if you have good stats, you should have a pretty good shot of getting in somewhere in your home state. If you were a Texan with great stats, you're sure to get in somewhere in Texas. All I'm saying is that it should be the same for California residents. Unfortunately, barring out of staters will not make this problem any better. But at least those few out of state spots will be filled by a couple Californians.

Originally posted by karen44

My GPA is good now...haven't taken the MCAT yet...but is there anything else an out-of-stater can do to get into these schools?

Move to California.

 

[MGoBlue13]

Originally posted by karen44
[B

My GPA is good now...haven't taken the MCAT yet...but is there anything else an out-of-stater can do to get into these schools? [/B]

My advice.... sleep with as many people on the ADCOMS as possible. That's the angle that I'm taking

 

[LoneCoyote]

I've talked to some people about this issue. I had a problem going on for awhile with my CA residency (which seems to be resolved now, thankfully), and I did some research just in case I was deemed out-of-state. According to a doctor on the UCSF faculty and has sat on the committee for 6+ years who I met with this summer, it is very difficult to get into UCSF out of state. She said they judge candidates on a point system and CA residents get points for residency. So if you are out-of-state, you need to make up for those points in other ways, ie stellar grades, high scores, fabulous EC's, letters, research, publications, etc. I have also heard here on SDN that they favor CA residents on the waitlist over out-of-staters.

As for the other schools, forget UCD, UCI, as was said earlier. I don't know much about UCLA and UCSD but I think the same things for UCSF will apply. According to a friend of mine who went through the cycle the last time around and got into all the UC's as a CA resident, many of the "out-of-staters" he met at interviews, and some of those who were eventutally successful, had significant ties to the state, ie they went to high school there, had one parent living there even if they themselves did not. I know a couple of people from Arizona who have gotten interviews at UCSD and UCLA and have not made it farther than that. 1 was URM, the other was not. So the message I got in investiating this was that if you have a great record, unique experiences, etc. it's worth an application but don't necessarily get your hopes up. There's also USC and Stanford. Or coming to CA for residency.

Peace.

 

[UCSBPre-Med]

So, Gleevec tell me.

Do you think you have a great chance of getting into a school in Texas? I bet you do. Why do you think Texas is so favorable of Texas residents?

Being from California, I'm scared knowing I might have to go to school in some cold, monoethnic place just to go to med school. I have the stats, and I should be able to pick where I can go just like residents of other states, but we all know I can't...

California is favorable to Cali residents, but UCSF and UCLA aren't. UCSF accepts about 10 out of staters every year. I'm sure they have similar stats than some in staters that have been rejected. Its not simply a matter of stats, its a random process.

I'll stop b*tchin' now. Do whatever you want guys. Forgive me if I think Cali is so great and I don't wanna leave!

 

[jot]

California is favorable to Cali residents, but UCSF and UCLA aren't

i hear ya man - but thats not true.

its not that impossbile to get into ucsf/ucla/ucsd from out of state. while a 40 and 4.0 would get you a good look - cali schools are like all others, they look for other schtuff to see if you're a good fit. while i was interviewing at sf i was with a 60% out of state group - while this obviosuly doesn't represent the interview pool, they had done some pretty interesting stuff to get where they were beyond stats. just apply - ya never know. gluck
-jot

 

[UCSBPre-Med]

Well first off, I don't think UC Davis and UC Irvine are "not-so-good."

Both have been ranked in the Top 50 in Primary care in previous years (not this year suprisingly).

 

[UCSBPre-Med]

It is favorable, it just should be 100%.

Inhibiting out of staters from getting into UCSF or UCLA will not fix the problem of Californians getting into California med schools, but it would at least send a message to their applicants that they feel our pain in this process.

Its like they are telling us that they don't care that our state has the largest ratio of applicants to the least amount of med schools. If they did that, it wouldn't fix anything, but at least let us know that they are taking steps in the right direction by fixing the problem.

The next step would be opening up some more d*mn med schools...

 

[Lara]

Originally posted by UCSBPre-Med
Hidden bonus for who? The med school? It sure isn't a hidden bonus for that poor California student with great stats, who has to go to school 3000 miles away from his friends and family, and pay triple what he would have paid if he had gone to medical school in the Golden State.

And if McGill University (the only English med school in Quebec) didn't accept international/out of province students yet kept the same amount of seats, I'd surely have been accepted instead of not getting off the waitlist. Tuition difference? At least $100,000 and I could have always gone for a residency in the States had I wished. But in the end, I have to take responsibility for my stats just not being quite good enough. And everything happens for a reason - I'm happy and surrounded by a good supportive group here at Temple.

Bottom line? I do sympathize since I've been there, but in the end you just have to suck it up. If you get into a UC, my congrats - but if not, just remember that *all* US med schools will give you a good education and that many people won't even have that option. Loans will get paid off eventually. And IMO anyone who really has a 4.0 GPA and 40 MCAT with a decent personality and exposure to heath care has pretty much earned whatever med school he/she wants (and is accepted obviously).

btw, I believe ex-Californians do have an edge when trying to obtain a residency back in the States, at least compared to someone like me with zero history...so don't despair, it doesn't have to be forever!

 

[UCSBPre-Med]

Originally posted by Lara
Loans will get paid off eventually. And IMO anyone who really has a 4.0 GPA and 40 MCAT with a decent personality and exposure to heath care has pretty much earned whatever med school he/she wants (and is accepted obviously).

Tell that to the countless people I know with great stats that didn't get into a California med school. They don't call it UC Albany for nothin'...

Originally posted by Gleevec
I dont think kicking out a mere 25 out-of-staters who are likely very very highly qualified and want to live/practice in CA will solve anything. They need to open more med schools, but UCSB, you cant blame out-of-state applicants for your problems. They represent 25 people at most for the whole huge system. You should be blaming UC for not making more med schools, not the applicants who want to eventually live and practice in CA.

You're right. I said it wouldn't solve anything, and they should open more med schools (I said that). I'm not blaming anyone who wants to go to med school in my beatiful state. H*ll, so do I. But just think, there are more reasons that "quality of education/weather" as to why I wanna go to a UC. I also want to be close to my family.

But if I have to move, then I will. Good luck to all. Hope there's no hard feelings Gleevec. I like Texas too.

 

[Lara]

But someone with truly great stats *isn't* likely to be going to Albany if rejected from the UC's. Try the Ivys, Hopkins, Wash U, Mayo, U Mich, NYU, Sinai, Duke etc plus other "ranked" schools...and maybe even with a generous financial aid package.

Now someone with more average stats, sure - but I assume you're talking at least in the 3.8 range.

Anyway, good luck and I do hope you don't have to go far from home!

 

[souljah1]

Ok, I've seen a few things here that I'd like to address.

1. Great stats are no gaurantee to an acceptance into medical school. If you know people with great stats that were not able to get into a UC as a CA residenct, it is highly likely that other aspects of their application were weak. For instance, you can have insanely high numbers, but if UCSF thinks your personal statement or experience is poor, you can rest assurred that you'll be getting a rejection. I understand why people think numbers are so important, but it gets old to keep hearing about all these people with 'great stats' who don't get in anywhere. It takes more than statistics.

2. Shutting the doors to out of state applicants will not solve any problems. UCSF has about 15% or so out of state students matriculating every year, as does UCLA. Do you think that these 40 people are getting in only because they have better numbers? Do you think their acceptances definitely means that someone with equal qualifications that is a CA resident is getting the shaft? It isn't that easy, nor is it that conspiratorial.

3. Each UC has a different feel, and each has different admission priorities. UCSB, what about residency matching? Should UC hospitals only take CA medical school graduates? From the hospitals perspective, as well as for the medical schools perspective, they are concerned with getting the most qualified applicants that they can..in order to produce the best physicians that they can.


I know that applying as a CA resident is a tough process, especially considering how well-respected our state school system is nationally. However, I don't think my 20 or so out of state classmates don't deserve to be here. They are amazingly accomplished people, and most of them have a desire (atleast those that I spoke with) to stay in CA after graduation. I'd also like to add that there are plenty of us in the UC medical system who were not born in the state of CA (myself included). I moved here as an adult, gathered an interest in medicine, and applied to medical school. Should the seats in UC medical schools be off limits to those who move to CA later in life, and only made available to those that are born in the state?

Again, I understand your frustration. But, I think that there is nothing wrong with UCSF and UCLA accepting some out of state applicants who have a strong desire to learn medicine in CA.

 

[Cambrian]

Personally, I welcome the out-of-state applicants to the UC medical schools. If the UC medical schools are to gain prestige and recognition at a national level, they should open more doors to out-of-state applicants. It makes the applicant pool more competitive and qualified (although I believe there are many California-resident applicants who are very well qualified). I would support the movement for my medical school, UCSD, to accept out-of-state applicants. Of course, you might say that I wouldn't be thinking like this if I were still applying and had to compete against out-of-state applicants. But the truth is, I would be honored to be in the same pool as those intelligent and qualified applicants outside of California. It makes getting into medical school even more rewarding because it is difficult.

If I were in a position to change admissions policy, I would consider accepting more out-of-state applicants. But that's just me.

 

[pillowhead]

UCSB,
There are plenty of people who want to be close to family/significant others who often come from states with no med schools or as in my case, a state with such a crappy public school (and only one of them, so if you don't like it or its location, tough cookies!) that we are forced to look elsewhere for a decent educaiton. If you are competitive you will get in. If you aren't, that is your fault, not the UC system. Just be glad to be in a state that has such excellent higher education opportunities for such a low cost. Don't blame the school because you can't get in. Everyone knows from the beginning how tough it is to get in anywhere esp. if you are a CA resident. And you have two private schools in your state, too!

 

[youngjock]

I don't see a reason why they can't expand. there are too many premeds in california who want to go to medical school. And most of them are well qualified! they can't go to any UC schools, because there are too few spots opening for so many good applicants.

and california needs more doctors. UC schools should open a few more medical schools, and expand their facilities. doctors are charging too much these days, if they have more competition, they will force to lower their price, and provide better service.

that is very simple. i don't think that there is any other profession that is so hard to get in. there are law schools that provide night classes. you can get a ph.d online, etc. i am not saying that medical school should open night classes, and do it online. however, there is no reason to keep so many good applicants out of their dream and hope.

 

[Miss Dr.]

on my UCSF interview day....8 out of the 9 of us were out-of-state applicants.

on my UCLA day....i was the only out of state applicant.

this is purely anecdotal evidence, but just thought i'd share.

both schools have about 80% of matriculants as in-staters. i can totally see how if it came down to 2 equally qualified candidates---why the school would pick the in-stater. after all, because of tuition benefits and perhaps family stuff, that person is more likely to accept the offer for admission. and the schools are very big on "not being rejected" by applicants. if that makes sense.

 

[lola]

more california medical schools need to be built. where is my tax money going? to california schools that i won't even be able to go to, so i will have to pay more to go out of state

i don't think we should pick on out of state applicants. some uc's choose to let in out of state people. we should be picking on them for letting in out of staters if we're going to pick on anyone. even if fewer out of state people applied, ucla/ucsf would still have enough highly qualified out of state applicants to fill up 20% of their classes or whatever the number is.

gleevec, comparing texas to california doesn't work too well. the fact of the matter is, texas lets in like 1/2 of their in-state applicants. this is not the case in california. most in-state californians end up going elsewhere. our "lower tier" schools are extremely difficult to get into. baylor isn't even a state school is it? that's like saying stanford is generous b/c 10% of its students come from out of state -- when it's probably something like 80%. why are there more med schools in texas than california anyway? california has a much larger population!

 

[UCSBPre-Med]

Okay. I'm back from Lab.

Originally posted by youngjock
I don't see a reason why they can't expand. there are too many premeds in california who want to go to medical school. And most of them are well qualified! they can't go to any UC schools, because there are too few spots opening for so many good applicants.

This is my point exactly.

Originally posted by souljah1
1. Great stats are no gaurantee to an acceptance into medical school. If you know people with great stats that were not able to get into a UC as a CA residenct, it is highly likely that other aspects of their application were weak. For instance, you can have insanely high numbers, but if UCSF thinks your personal statement or experience is poor, you can rest assurred that you'll be getting a rejection.

So tell me my friend, do you honestly believe every single person rejected by UCSF had either weak stats or weak experiences? Come on. I can tell you stories (purely anecdotal I know) of people that were gobbled up by many schools, not just because of great stats. UCSF rejected them. I'm not saying its because of out-of staters, but if there weren't any out of staters, maybe that person would have had a better chance of getting in.

Originally posted by souljah1
Again, I understand your frustration. But, I think that there is nothing wrong with UCSF and UCLA accepting some out of state applicants who have a strong desire to learn medicine in CA.

souljah, I agree that there's nothing wrong with them accepting out of state residents. But, what about us? I think it would be a lot easier for them to attend school near their home than for me to go to school near theirs.

Originally posted by lola
gleevec, comparing texas to california doesn't work too well. the fact of the matter is, texas lets in like 1/2 of their in-state applicants. this is not the case in california. most in-state californians end up going elsewhere. our "lower tier" schools are extremely difficult to get into. baylor isn't even a state school is it? that's like saying stanford is generous b/c 10% of its students come from out of state -- when it's probably something like 80%. why are there more med schools in texas than california anyway? california has a much larger population!

Thank you! I'm glad someone understand what I'm trying to say here.

In closing, all I'm saying is that I want to have the "opportunity" to attend med school in my home state. The acceptance rate for California residents at California med schools is something like 3%. Three friggin' percent! There's something wrong with that. All I'm saying is that out-of-staters should at least be considerate to those of us who want to stay close to home.

For example, I go to a Southern Cali undergrad (UC Santa Barbara). I'm from NorCal. I want to be close to my family, I want to work with doctors in the area that will eventually become my colleagues. I don't want to go to school there for the simple fact of living in good weather (for anyone who's been here knows that NorCal has extremely hot summers and long, rainy winters). I want to practice here too. I believe that it is such more rewarding helping people in one's own community, and thats all I want to do.

 

[jtheater]

UCSB I am not trying to sound mean, but this thread has the tone of one of those students who goes up to the professor to get a few extra points on an exam. I think state schools should have preference for in-state residents. However, diversity in a class is very important to me and most educators. This includes upbringing and geographic locale. Secondly, almost every medical school (if not all) gets federal funding, so I think the schools that do not even look at out of state people are not being appropriate. Yes, federal funding generally supports research, but this also translates into education opportunities (i.e., facilities, faculty recruitment, research opps, tertiary level patient population). Even "non-research" oriented schools do research.

And yes, I am a CA resident.

 

[UCSBPre-Med]

Originally posted by jtheater
. I think state schools should have preference for in-state residents. However, diversity in a class is very important to me and most educators. This includes upbringing and geographic locale. Secondly, almost every medical school (if not all) gets federal funding, so I think the schools that do not even look at out of state people are not being appropriate.

Tell that to the countless western and mid-western states that don't even look at out of state residents. Why do you think they do that then? For the same reason that I'm trying say--there are too many applicants for to few med school applicants.

 

[UCSBPre-Med]

By the way, I hope I'm not coming off like I'm b*tchin'. Cause I'm not. I like my chances of getting into a Cali school.

My most important interview at my co-top choice (UC Davis) is on 12/3. All I'm trying to say is that non-state residents should at least understand what we have to go through just to get into school in our home state.

Good luck to all out-of staters trying to get into UCSF and UCLA.

 

[UCSBPre-Med]

Don't put words in my mouth.

First off, I never attacked any out of state resident who was applying to a California school. All I said was that they should think twice about applying, not just because its hard for us, but its even harder for them.

PS. I have a list of 14 schools me and some of my friends are applying to. I want NONE of you on this board to apply to these schools because it will make it harder for me and my friends to get in. Please be considerate of me and my friends and dont apply to any of these schools.

That was funny. You can apply to any of the schools that I applied to. I'm not afraid of competititon. Any competition from in-staters is enough for me to deal with, and I'm not worried about the few people not from Cali that do get in.

The whole point of my post(s) was that an out of stater should not be able to apply to those schools, but since they can, more power to them.

P.S. I never wanted your sympathy. For what? I haven't been rejected yet. And if I am, I'm not gonna blame it on the "system." I'll just go somewhere else in the country, because I know I'll get in somewhere [knock on wood!] Any American med school will give me adequate training to be able to come back to NorCal and help the people of my community.

 

[UCSBPre-Med]

Being considerate is not the same thing as wanting "sympathy."

I don't want people to feel bad for us Californians because it is really hard to get into our med schools. There are so many advantages to living in this beatuiful state of ours, that one disadvantage is not the end of the world. I just want out of staters to at least do the research, and find what schools are right for them, then apply to whichever ones they want.

Obviously I'm not gonna stop out of staters from applying in California, but until the UC Board Of Regents does something abot this, there's nothing anyone can do. Good luck to all those applying.

 

[Nefertari]

Yup, the reality of this year's admission process can't be changed, so chill pills for everybody! Take some deep breaths & swallow.

 

[lola]

2001 data

MEDICAL Total Applicant Pool Total Accepted Pool
Total Number of Medical School Applicants 3002 1135
MEN 1594 611
WOMEN 1408 524
Texas Residents 2439 1063 = 44%
Non-Residents 563 72
Average Age: 24 23
Average GPA: 3.47 3.62
Average MCAT Total Points 26.5 28.3


the info above came from http://www.utsystem.edu/tmdsas/stats.htm

so you don't have a a 50% chance of getting in if you are a texas resident, but a 44% chance is still damn good. also, compare the average grades/mcats to california schools. geesh! preliminary numbers from 2002 show a 50% chance of acceptance.

i wish i could find similar applied/accepted statistics for california that take multiple applications into account.

 

[UCSBPre-Med]

Thanks, lola.

I was looking for those.

 

[lola]

i read somewhere (it may have been on here) that you have a 1 in 8 chance of getting into a uc for med school if you are a california resident. if you are a california resident who is not a urm your chances are 1 in 9. i don't know where the numbers came from or if they are correct.

 

[scootad.]

I am not a California resident but I agree with UCSB Pre-Med. He is not blaming out of staters, he's simply saying ideally California schools should restrict admissions to California residents. As far as the argument that such a policy would limit national "visibility" to these schools, so what?! If they are so concerned w/ visibility they should become private. Regardless, even by restricting to California residents its not like the quality of students will go down. There are sooo many qualified California applicants to fill those slots.

 

[UCSBPre-Med]

Back from class.

Originally posted by Gleevec
Kicking out about 40 OOS will not bring that % up at all. It will in fact make UC schools state-only, which will reduce its national visibility greatly.

Reduce its national visibility? Do you honestly believe that? So the few out of state resident med students at UCSF and UCLA make the school have national reputation? I know you didn't mean it like that, but it almost sounds like an insult to California students, like we can't be great enough to make the school have national prestige. I bet there is a Californian at every Top 10 med school in the country. There are probably a lot of states that can't say that.

Originally posted by scootad.
I am not a California resident but I agree with UCSB Pre-Med. He is not blaming out of staters, he's simply saying ideally California schools should restrict admissions to California residents. As far as the argument that such a policy would limit national "visibility" to these schools, so what?! If they are so concerned w/ visibility they should become private. Regardless, even by restricting to California residents its not like the quality of students will go down. There are sooo many qualified California applicants to fill those slots.

This is exactly my point! I'm glad someone from outside of California agrees. I don't want to sound snobby, its just that UC's should restrict admittance to Cali residents. And Gleevec, you're right, that won't change anything. But it is a step in the right direction, before we get new med schools built.

 

[souljah1]

UCSB,

What I was saying is that there are plenty of students with really good stats that'll get 'gobbled' up by many schools. This fact alone illustrates what I was trying to say (perhaps poorly). There will always be qualified applicants who do not get into a school that where they meet the statistical criteria for admittance. I fully agree that California applicants have it the roughest when it comes to landing a seat in-state. I also agree that they should build more medical schools in California as well. I think this will help out the best. However, from a medical school's perspective...they could care less about satisfying the needs of premedical students. That may sound a bit rude, but think about it. The purpose of medical schools are to train people to be physicians, not to satisfy the anxiety of premedical students. Yes, there is a shortage of physicians in certain regions of California, but 1. that wouldn't really change by kicking out the 40 seats available to out of state applicants, and 2. building more medical schools would not necessarily mean that that would translate into more physcians entering these regions where there is shortage. I am all for new medical schools, for I trust that more physicians could not hurt the state, nor the country for that matter. I wish you the best of luck with Davis and UCSF

Also, to the above poster who said something about the UC system losing its national rep if they closed doors to out of state applicants..that is silly. UCSF and UCLA did not build their reputation by accepting out of state premedical applicants. They built there reputation from having excellent teaching hospitals, amazing research that is well funded, and residency programs that are highly sought after due to exposure to diverse patient populations along side stellar clinical mentors. Sorry to break it to you, but the 40 kids coming to California every year are not responsible for the UC system's national reputation. Oh yes, maybe a handful of out of state premeds would not pay much attention to the UC system if they firmly established an in-state-only policy, but they aren't the ones that mainly determine the strength of a medical school in the first place. The reputation of UCSF and UCLA are largely due to clinical experience and research, which would not change if they didn't allow the 40 or so kids in per year anymore. Graduates of UCLA and UCSF, regardless of how many students are from in-state, are looked at as hot commodities my residency directors from around the country. I don't think that has to due with state residency issues.

With that, I wish you the best.

 

[Random Access]

Originally posted by UCSBPre-Med
Tell that to the countless western and mid-western states that don't even look at out of state residents. Why do you think they do that then? For the same reason that I'm trying say--there are too many applicants for to few med school applicants.

Don't Nebraska and/or Kansas let in a lot of out of state kids?

 

[Random Access]

Originally posted by UCSBPre-Med
This is exactly my point! I'm glad someone from outside of California agrees. I don't want to sound snobby, its just that UC's should restrict admittance to Cali residents. And Gleevec, you're right, that won't change anything. But it is a step in the right direction, before we get new med schools built.

Umm...yeah...that's going to go ahead and not work. Unless you remove the MSTP programs. (which I think is where the bulk of the out of state kids are, anyway)

 

[UCSBPre-Med]

Round 4 begins!

Originally posted by souljah1
What I was saying is that there are plenty of students with really good stats that'll get 'gobbled' up by many schools. This fact alone illustrates what I was trying to say (perhaps poorly). There will always be qualified applicants who do not get into a school that where they meet the statistical criteria for admittance. I fully agree that California applicants have it the roughest when it comes to landing a seat in-state. I also agree that they should build more medical schools in California as well. I think this will help out the best. However, from a medical school's perspective...they could care less about satisfying the needs of premedical students. That may sound a bit rude, but think about it. The purpose of medical schools are to train people to be physicians, not to satisfy the anxiety of premedical students. Yes, there is a shortage of physicians in certain regions of California, but 1. that wouldn't really change by kicking out the 40 seats available to out of state applicants, and 2. building more medical schools would not necessarily mean that that would translate into more physcians entering these regions where there is shortage. I am all for new medical schools, for I trust that more physicians could not hurt the state, nor the country for that matter. I wish you the best of luck with Davis and UCSF

Also, to the above poster who said something about the UC system losing its national rep if they closed doors to out of state applicants..that is silly. UCSF and UCLA did not build their reputation by accepting out of state premedical applicants. They built there reputation from having excellent teaching hospitals, amazing research that is well funded, and residency programs that are highly sought after due to exposure to diverse patient populations along side stellar clinical mentors. Sorry to break it to you, but the 40 kids coming to California every year are not responsible for the UC system's national reputation. Oh yes, maybe a handful of out of state premeds would not pay much attention to the UC system if they firmly established an in-state-only policy, but they aren't the ones that mainly determine the strength of a medical school in the first place. The reputation of UCSF and UCLA are largely due to clinical experience and research, which would not change if they didn't allow the 40 or so kids in per year anymore. Graduates of UCLA and UCSF, regardless of how many students are from in-state, are looked at as hot commodities my residency directors from around the country. I don't think that has to due with state residency issues.

I couldn't agree more, my friend. Oh yeah, thanks for the kind words. I'm going to Davis on 12/3!!! Hopefully UCSF soon!

Originally posted by Gleevec
To medical schools in terms of their mission, there really is no fundamental difference between OOS and in-state at the point at which both are going to practice in CA, they only need to allay taxpayers at the level of accepting more in-state students (which they already do).

How do you know that? Personally, if I got into UPenn, or Johns Hopkins, or whatever other Top 10 med school outside of Cali, it doesn't matter, because I'm coming home. I bet a lot of non-Californians will do the same. They want to practice near their homes. And if not, there is more to California than the Bay Area and Southern California (no offense if some of you are from there). I think an important aspect of medicine for some of us Californians are returning to our medically underserved communities and helping our neighbors. If we don't build the contacts one builds as a med student near your home, it will be harder to find practices and partners there.

Originally posted by Random Access
Umm...yeah...that's going to go ahead and not work. Unless you remove the MSTP programs. (which I think is where the bulk of the out of state kids are, anyway)

How do you know that? If it keeps getting harder and harder for Californians to get into their own friggin' med schools, the taxpayers will complain. Tital Wave II (the exponential growth in college applications) is already hitting undergrad institutions. In a few years, the number of people from Cali applying to med schools can only increase. If the UC Regents do not build new med schools, there will be a huge problem (huger than it already is!) The first thing they can do though, is by restricting UC admissions to Cali residents. Sure, 40 people won't make that big of a difference, but it sure would make a difference to me if I was one of those 40 people, and don't have to move half way across the country to become a doctor.

 

[Random Access]

Originally posted by UCSBPre-Med
How do you know that? If it keeps getting harder and harder for Californians to get into their own friggin' med schools, the taxpayers will complain. Tital Wave II (the exponential growth in college applications) is already hitting undergrad institutions. In a few years, the number of people from Cali applying to med schools can only increase. If the UC Regents do not build new med schools, there will be a huge problem (huger than it already is!) The first thing they can do though, is by restricting UC admissions to Cali residents. Sure, 40 people won't make that big of a difference, but it sure would make a difference to me if I was one of those 40 people, and don't have to move half way across the country to become a doctor.

Great argument, bud. You didn't actually respond to what I said and did a good job of making little sense. Do you actually see LA and SF cutting their MSTP programs?

As I said in other threads...I don't see this as a problem. It's perfectly fine for California schools to have high standards. And you don't have an entitlement to being at your state school. If you really want to be in California that badly, apply for residencies there in 4 years.

And as has been mentioned, it's much harder to get into a state school if you live in Massachusetts.

 

[UCSBPre-Med]

Never said I had an entitlement...just a fair chance if I have the stats, something that Californians don't have. Who said they would have to get rid of their MSTP programs? There are plenty of excellent, qualified Californians to fulfill those spots.

Also, thats something you will never understand, as its obvious you aren't from here.

P.S. I doubt the Massachusetts thing, Random Access. I'd like to see some stats on that please.

When I say "difficult" I mean number of spots: number of applicants.

I doubt Massachusetts' ratio is as high as California's. Sure you might not have many med schools (one? two?) But you probably don't have that many applicants either. Therefore, the ratio isn't as high, but I might be wrong. Let me see them.

 

[Random Access]

Originally posted by UCSBPre-Med
Never said I had an entitlement...just a fair chance if I have the stats, something that Californians don't have. Who said they would have to get rid of their MSTP programs? There are plenty of excellent, qualified Californians to fulfill those spots.

Also, thats something you will never understand, as its obvious you aren't from here.

P.S. I doubt the Massachusetts thing, Random Access. I'd like to see some stats on that please.

When I say "difficult" I mean number of spots: number of applicants.

I doubt Massachusetts' ratio is as high as California's. Sure you might not have many med schools (one? two?) But you probably don't have that many applicants either. Therefore, the ratio isn't as high, but I might be wrong. Let me see them.

Look for the thread. The stats are in it. It might even be this thread, not sure.

Also, MSTP is federally funded. They have to take some out of state kids, and this is where several out of state kids are admitted to LA and SF.

"you will never understand"? Jeez, now you just sound like a teenager going through puberty. Just because you think you're qualified doesn't mean that you are. You're given a fair chance if you have the stats. How aren't you? If you want to have the same probability of getting into med school as in Texas, move there! California schools have high standards and are more selective; deal.

 

[jot]

get rid of their MSTP programs? There are plenty of excellent, qualified Californians to fulfill those spots.

though there are 'qualified' californians - a school would only want to invest the $450k it costs to train an mstp student if they are the best they can get. since calis are allowed to take mstp students from anywhere, sure they take many excellently qualified cali kids, but the out of state cali kids that they take are more qualified than those they supposedly displaced.

the number of excellently qualified cali students choosing to go elsewhere is remarkably high as well, and since the national pool of excellent mstp candidates is more limited than the med program - it is not possible to limit the search to cali kids.

don't punch me if you see me in class next year!
-jot

 

[paean]

Since everyone else seems to have forgotten, there are 8 allopathic schools in CA:

UC Davis
UC Irvine
UC Los Angeles
UC San Diego
UC San Francisco
Stanford
USC
Loma Linda (which always seem to be forgotten)

And at least two osteopathic schools,
Touro (in Vallejo)
one in LA whose name I forget, there may be 2 in SoCal.

So if your primary goal is to go to school in CA, you may want to expand your application pool to include the "forgotten" schools. As a UCSF student, I'm glad that we accept out of state students, because the ones accepted into my class bring in interesting viewpoints. Several of them have been CA residents in the past, and lost their residency when they moved out of state for a few years for work or grad school, and with the exception of 1 MSTP student, every one I've talked to has expressed a desire to stay in CA permanantly. The reason to accept in state students usually revolves around the desire to create doctors who are most likely to stay in state, so the out of staters who are here fill that criteria.

 

[UCSBPre-Med]

Originallly posted by Random Access
"you will never understand"? Jeez, now you just sound like a teenager going through puberty. Just because you think you're qualified doesn't mean that you are. You're given a fair chance if you have the stats. How aren't you? If you want to have the same probability of getting into med school as in Texas, move there! California schools have high standards and are more selective; deal.

LOL. Now you have to resolve to insults. I'm not saying I deserve to go to a UC, heck, I don't think anyone deserves it. But it makes me mad that I worked my *ss off in undergrad, got a 3.92, a 31Q on the MCAT, and I might not even get to stay in my home state, all because there are too many applicants for too few spots.

I am well aware that if I don't get in Cali it was most likely because some California resident beat me out. I'm 100% fine with that. But for someone to tell me to move states so I can have the same probability to get into med school is utterly BS. I love my home state. CALIFORNIA UBERALIS. I'm never moving. If I have to go to school somewhere else, I will enjoy myself to the fullest. Then I'll come back and practice here. The solution is in building new med schools, not in leaving my state. I believe in fixing a problem rather than avoiding it.

If you know about Supply and Demand (which I assume you do) you would know that the high stats for UCs are mostly to do with reputation, and partly to do with competition from Californians. BOTTOM LINE: We need more med schools. Until then, we should restrict what few spots we have to citizens of the Golden State.

Thats all. I'm not bashing, knocking, or hatin' on them. More power to them. All I'm saying is that we should have first, middle, and last dibs on the PUBLIC spots in our own state. Stanford, USC, and Loma Linda can be open for grabs, since these aren't tax funded.

Random Access, I hope you aren't pissed at me. If you understand how I, and a lot of my fellow Cali Pre-Meds felt about being scared of not getting into med school, you'd understand. Until then, you are entitled to your opinion. But I must say as an outsider, I don't really think you can accurately speak on the issue.

P.S. I apologize about the MSTP thing. Didn't know its Federally Funded. I didn't apply, so I didn't know. Those should still be up for grabs.
P.P.S. jot: you are THE MAN! Why would I punch you???

 

[merlin17]

Hi there, first post so please don't get mad at me too quickly

Anyway, for those of you in CA that are having a hard time getting into a state school, I really wish that things were going better. In all honesty though, I think a lot of people are jealous of California residents because you have some amazing state schools. There aren't many states that even give its residents a chance to go to some of the best medical schools in the country for in-state tuition. I guess you just have to decide what is better. Having the opportunity to go to an amazing state school but having a hell of a hard time getting in, or living in a state that has a decent but not outstanding school that you can get into a little bit easier.

Or you could be me...I live in a state without a state medical school, so I don't even have the option to go to a school for in-state tuition. Truthfully that makes things a bit easier for me because I know how much school will cost and have gotten used to the idea that I am going to be broke

Happy thanksgiving to all!

 

[vmn2]

noitcelfer,

i'm from indiana and i am a first year at UCSF now....so it's not impossible. if you have any questions let me know. midwest represent!

vmn2

Originally posted by Noitcelfer
How difficult is it applying out of state to the UC's? Would a ~4.0 and ~40 MCAT have a good shot at UCLA or UCSF? (I'm from Indiana; doubt there's all that many applicants from here). I'd appreciate any info.

 

[Bounty]

vmn2,
didn't know you still check this site! India-na!