UC's out of state

[Random Access]

Originally posted by UCSBPre-Med
Random Access, I hope you aren't pissed at me. If you understand how I, and a lot of my fellow Cali Pre-Meds felt about being scared of not getting into med school, you'd understand. Until then, you are entitled to your opinion. But I must say as an outsider, I don't really think you can accurately speak on the issue.

You just sound really whiny. I don't see why you'd be scared about getting into med school. Just apply to out of state ones. I don't think the state of California has an obligation only to take in-state kids. They do have an obligation to take the best kids they can find.

Your really are being an @$$ about saying that I can't accurately speak about this, pretty condescending attitude if you ask me. I think it's irrelevant whether I'm from California or not. I don't think state schools should only be restricted to be in-state in general, California or not.

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[scootad.]

Well I don't think one should worry so much about those "exceptions." There are always exceptions to every rule that is made and there will always be people who may be "screwed" over. But in the overall scheme of things, the state of California (and all states) benefits most from attracting candidates that will end up practicing in their state. And by and large, those people tend to be California state residents. You can't worry about exceptions, its the big picture thats important.

 

[scootad.]

You misinterpreted what I meant by exceptions. I was talking about the fact that for the most part the people who are going to end up practicing in California are the ones who are residents of the state. Of course there are exceptions in which out of staters plan to practice in California after getting their M.D. but again, these exceptions are vastly outnumbered. It makes sense to enforce a rule that preserves generalities not exceptions so it would be perfectly reasonable that California state schools restrict admission to in-staters (as do many other state schools in the U.S.)

 

[scootad.]

yes, by restricting to in-staters the schools would be excluding those exceptions who are out of staters w/ a committment to practicing in California. But my premise is that these exceptions are outnumbered and if you look at the big picture, statitistically the schools are actually taking a RISK by accepting them. For example, of the ~30-40 supposed "committed" out of staters they would accept I argue that a higher percentage of these 30-40 people would change their mind and practice out of state, than had these schools filled those 30-40 slots w/ in-staters.
In other words, a statistically higher percentage of instaters would remain instate after getting their degree than out-of-staters.

while you may argue that its minimal risk and damage e.g. each of these schools would be losing only ~10-20 California medical practictioners by admitting out of staters, but I would argue that that's 10-20 too many! All state funded schools have an obligation to maximize the # of physicians practicing in their state and EVERY DOCTOR COUNTS. also, its the principle that matters.

 

[scootad.]

also, by the way, I am NOT a california resident so if anything I would be biased in favor of allowing out of staters into these schools. but i just dont think thats the right thing to do for california!

 

[scootad.]

You are 100% correct that neither of us have the statistics to back up our claims. In my view, these statitistics are invaluable to our argument. If they support the scenario outlined in my previous post, that is plenty of ammunition to favor restricting out of staters. However, if the statistics support your view that out of staters and in-staters have an equal probability of practicing in state or out of staters have a higher probability of remaining, than your argument wins.

Anyone know where to find these stats? In theory they should be easy to obtain.

 

[UCSBPre-Med]

Originally posted by Random Access
You just sound really whiny. I don't see why you'd be scared about getting into med school. Just apply to out of state ones. I don't think the state of California has an obligation only to take in-state kids. They do have an obligation to take the best kids they can find.

Your really are being an @$$ about saying that I can't accurately speak about this, pretty condescending attitude if you ask me. I think it's irrelevant whether I'm from California or not. I don't think state schools should only be restricted to be in-state in general, California or not.

There are reasons for me wanting to stay close to home. My mom is sick, and I want to be near her. I don't want to move to Podunk, USA where it is -20 below. You calling me whiny is such a bulls*it assumption, that I'm not gonna even bother answering. If you were in my shoes, you'd understand. You're not, so I'll just let that slide.

California does have in obligation to take California residents. If you lived here, you'd know that we pay taxes to the state system. Our governor is on the Board of Regents. The UC is OUR school, and it should serve our students.

Condescending? Me? And what do you call someone who disagrees with someone and calls the other "whiny?" I'm glad I stopped arguing like that in the 3rd grade.

P.S, hey Gleevec, whats up with the YODA? Trying to copy me now??? LOL

 

[zer0el]

i dunno, these arguments ignore a lot of things. first of all, other great public med schools (michigan, UVA) accept a fair number of out-of-staters (every person that i know who has gotten into michigan so far is from out-of-state). it appears as though the top public med schools take out-of-staters to improve the quality of their student bodies.

secondly, only two UC's really take out-of-staters (UCSF and UCLA). moreover, they accept such a small number of out-of-staters it makes the whole topic moot. UCSD, UCI, and UCD pretty much don't take any out-of-staters. as a CA resident myself, it doesn't really piss me off having to pay taxes for this minority of out-of-staters as they generally have ties to CA, or will practice in CA eventually. heck, we all pay taxes for many things that we don't like, but if it improves the overall situation, i'm not one to argue.

finally, as several people have mentioned, there are TEN medical schools in CA (8 if u really, really want to do MD). i think that gives every CA applicant a fairly good shot at staying in CA.

 

[lola]

Originally posted by zer0el
finally, as several people have mentioned, there are TEN medical schools in CA (8 if u really, really want to do MD). i think that gives every CA applicant a fairly good shot at staying in CA.

err... yeah, cause it's SO easy to get into stanford and usc. the other school, loma linda, is not a good fit for most people. that means there are really only 7 (for the majority of people applying) and all are VERY competitive. 4 of those 7 let in a considerable number of out of state students. that leaves us will very few spots for all the californians applying.

 

[UCSBMed1]

I'm glad someone sees what I was trying to say.

Thanks, lola!

 

[Deuce 007 MD]

UC sucks a$$, those out of staters who get in should go to some ivy league or top ten school. Cuz if you can get in from out of state you should be able to get into an IVY no prob. So a looser like me can take your place at the UC. I don't want to go to the boonies for the next 4 years, I like sunny so cal.

 

[souljah1]

Originally posted by Deuce 007 MD
UC sucks a$$, those out of staters who get in should go to some ivy league or top ten school. Cuz if you can get in from out of state you should be able to get into an IVY no prob. So a looser like me can take your place at the UC. I don't want to go to the boonies for the next 4 years, I like sunny so cal.

That is some brilliant logic. The 15 or so seats taken by out of state applicants in southern california public schools (UCLA) are the reason behind your potential failure at getting into medical school in southern california? I highly doubt that I'd also like to point out that getting into certain Ivy league schools could be looked at as easier than getting into ucla and/or ucsf as an out of state applicant. After going through last year's application cycle, I met many people who were admitted to Ivy league schools like Columbia and Yale, but didn't receive any love from the UCs. You should get out of the mindset of thinking that IVY means best, that is for old myopic white men. Hopkins isn't Ivy, Wash U isn't Ivy, Duke isn't Ivy, U of Wash isn't Ivy. If you are dead set on going to med school in southern Cali you have a decent amount of schools to choose from (UCSD, UCLA, UCI, USC, Loma Linda). Best of luck.

 

[scootad.]

you missed deuce's point. he's well aware of the fact that ucla and ucsf are of same caliber as ivy. thats why he wants to go there so bad.

 

[UCSBMed1]

Philadelphia Chromosome drug doesn't understand.

He's not from California.

 

[Deuce 007 MD]

Originally posted by scootad.
you missed deuce's point. he's well aware of the fact that ucla and ucsf are of same caliber as ivy. thats why he wants to go there so bad.

Word

 

[UCSBMed1]

And it won't stop me from caring, because I'm applying this year, and you have a pretty small chance of actually getting in anyway.

Good luck to you BCR-ABL drug.

 

[UCSBMed1]

I meant you are out-of-state.

And I wouldn't call it whining, just stating the fact, and why I think the system should be changed.

If you call someone wanting to change something for the future of all Cali pre-meds "whining" than you don't know what you are talking about.

The only thing that is lame is someone like you telling US that we should not be *angry* at our state for letting you guys come to med school here. I have every friggin' reason in the world to be angry at the UC system for allowing this. Thats my PERROGATIVE.

 

[UCSBMed1]

Never said they were, friend. You are entitled to you opinions.

Hey, you'll be applying to Cali schools next year, and there's nothing I can do to stop it. I wish you luck with that, but I wish they would change that rule.

They haven't, and I am going to have to live with that--for now.

 

[scootad.]

i dont think you should blame Gleevec though. he's perfectly entitled to applying to those schools. focus your anger on the admissions policies of the schools not the applicant. and again, i dont disagree with your viewpoint.

 

[UCSBMed1]

Who ever said I was blaming Out-Of-State applicants?!?!?

I'm just talking about changing the system from within, and I never blamed him for anything, heck if I wasn't from Cali I'd want to live here too. They just need to change it, thats all.