UCSF--Avoid at all costs

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Oh...guess we are picking school, not city.

Stanford with Knight Hennessey Scholarship. Otherwise, Duke.
 
Engrailed said:
On a brighter note... if you choose any city, where do you guys want to go to medical school and do residency? (If you could go anywhere..)
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Ideally, I want to take Durham, NC and everything about it, and stick it in the NYC metro area. Will report back on my success in this endeavor.
 
TRexLife4 said:
I don't know anything about the East coast but I'm pretty sure you're describing Boston
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I know a lot about the east coast. and I am not.

Edit for clarity: I love Boston! But the small Southern city culture, cost of living, and food scene are a few of the things I value about Durham that I can't get there.
 
MemeLord said:
I believe you are describing Portland, OR.
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275443
 
MemeLord said:
Absolutely nothing. I interpreted it as Charm + bigger city?
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I am interested in the specific southeast city charm plus proximity to NYC, specifically. That being said, there are many other places I could be happy, like Portland or Boise, I'm sure.
In fact, to any med school listening, I would be very happy and gracious to live and work in [insert name of med school city here].
 
From what I've heard, the most similar cities to Durham would be Austin, TX and Portland, OR. But out of the three cities, the only one I've been to is Durham, so I don't have an informed opinion. Of course, even similar cities are unique in their own way.
 
EmbryonalCarcinoma said:
From what I've heard, the most similar cities to Durham would be Austin, TX and Portland, OR. But out of the three cities, the only one I've been to is Durham, so I don't have an informed opinion. Of course, even similar cities are unique in their own way.
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I have been to both Portland and Austin. Both have that similar vibe, as did Houston and San Antonio (Granted, I only spent a large time in San Antonio and less than a week in the other two TX cities)
 
eatprayloverun said:
Recent grad here....word to the wise: Do. Not. Go. To. UCSF.
Seriously.
You will graduate in a tremendous amounts of debt, the new curriculum is terrible, and the administration is criminally unsupportive.
Go anywhere else, especially if you are given a good financial aid package.

I say this all the while having succeeded myself personally (currently at a top residency in a competitive speciality).

DM me if you have questions.
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Also a recent grad, so my thoughts on this are:
1. Debt is reasonable. The school was tied for my cheapest option, actually. If you’re hoping for free med school, that’s not likely to happen, but with COL and tuition combined I think I took out ~190k as someone without finaid? That strikes me as fairly standard from what I’ve seen. Plus, you get what you pay for in COL - as an example, Fresno is cheaper, but it’s also barely tolerable for a 6wk rotation. I 100% don’t regret higher rent for living in a place I loved.

2. New curriculum definitely seems like a con compared to the old one, but as someone involved in teaching/tutoring, they’ve made improvements over the 3 years it’s been running already.

3. This I agree on. If you’re not aiming for a competitive specialty, you have little to no shot at honors/AOA/etc. There’s definitely a tendency to pick certain kids to support and ignore the rest. I’m hopeful that eliminating honors in third year will help alleviate some of these issues, but it remains to be seen.
 
differentiating said:
Also a recent grad, so my thoughts on this are:
1. Debt is reasonable. The school was tied for my cheapest option, actually. If you’re hoping for free med school, that’s not likely to happen, but with COL and tuition combined I think I took out ~190k as someone without finaid? That strikes me as fairly standard from what I’ve seen. Plus, you get what you pay for in COL - as an example, Fresno is cheaper, but it’s also barely tolerable for a 6wk rotation. I 100% don’t regret higher rent for living in a place I loved.

2. New curriculum definitely seems like a con compared to the old one, but as someone involved in teaching/tutoring, they’ve made improvements over the 3 years it’s been running already.

3. This I agree on. If you’re not aiming for a competitive specialty, you have little to no shot at honors/AOA/etc. There’s definitely a tendency to pick certain kids to support and ignore the rest. I’m hopeful that eliminating honors in third year will help alleviate some of these issues, but it remains to be seen.
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Can you elaborate more on #3?
And also would you say the pass/fail system is always a good thing?
 
Engrailed said:
Can you elaborate more on #3?
And also would you say the pass/fail system is always a good thing?
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Basically, honors often went to the kids aiming for competitive specialties (to help their apps) and popular kids, so oftentimes not people who actually were any good at the medicine. To be blunt, our AOA list was a joke - only 2 people on there earned it, and the rest aren’t people I’d feel comfortable referring anyone to based on my experiences with them on the wards.

Personally, I’m in favor of the first 3 years being pass/fail, with MS4 being your time to shine and distinguish yourself. There’s no point in preclinical grades, and for MS3, it seems silly to judge people for not knowing how to do clinical medicine when it’s literally your job to teach them. It’s like taking a test before you get to hear any lectures. UCSF found that third year grades showed a significant amount of bias (more likely to go to white students over URM, etc.), which illustrates how subjective and frustrating such a system can be.
 
differentiating said:
Basically, honors often went to the kids aiming for competitive specialties (to help their apps) and popular kids, so oftentimes not people who actually were any good at the medicine. To be blunt, our AOA list was a joke - only 2 people on there earned it, and the rest aren’t people I’d feel comfortable referring anyone to based on my experiences with them on the wards.

Personally, I’m in favor of the first 3 years being pass/fail, with MS4 being your time to shine and distinguish yourself. There’s no point in preclinical grades, and for MS3, it seems silly to judge people for not knowing how to do clinical medicine when it’s literally your job to teach them. It’s like taking a test before you get to hear any lectures. UCSF found that third year grades showed a significant amount of bias (more likely to go to white students over URM, etc.), which illustrates how subjective and frustrating such a system can be.
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Fascinating !
Can You also share what AOA means? Im unaware
 
eatprayloverun said:
Recent grad here....word to the wise: Do. Not. Go. To. UCSF.
Seriously.
You will graduate in a tremendous amounts of debt, the new curriculum is terrible, and the administration is criminally unsupportive.
Go anywhere else, especially if you are given a good financial aid package.

I say this all the while having succeeded myself personally (currently at a top residency in a competitive speciality).

DM me if you have questions.
Click to expand...

Are we going to have "Don't go to X school" threads every week now?
 
wow, didn't know about UCSF curriculum changes. CL sucks, paid $2000+ for nice 3BR 17 years back during dotcom crash era near old UCSF campus. Probably same one costs $5K now. UCSF is on top of my son's list for next year (pending MCAT)!
 
hopefulgasman said:
If he has the stats for UCSF, he has the stats to earn one of those full-ride spots at Kaiser SOM. Go there, a USMD with a powerful network and a multitude of in house specialties. Can match anything you want from Derm to Orthopedic Surgery without having to worry about ever-accumulating and compounding interest.

How do you think Kaiser wants those first few match-lists to look to set the tone for the college? And the best part is, they have the in-house GME seats to guarantee and make it happen.
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The stats for Kaiser? Maybe. But they are aiming for a class of 40. It’s going to be hard to get in and is by no means a guarantee, regardless of stats.
 
TRexLife4 said:
Rich people ruin everything for everyone everywhere.
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I believe that the real issue here is competition and greed, or, more specifically, avarice. The reason rents and home prices / housing costs are so ridiculously high in tech-heavy places like Bay Area and LA are that landlords know that well-paid and compensated tech engineers, coders and executives can afford high rents. Ditto for home sales. At Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter, Salesforce, etc. many earn 250K annually.
 
hopefulgasman said:
If he has the stats for UCSF, he has the stats to earn one of those full-ride spots at Kaiser SOM. Go there, a USMD with a powerful network and a multitude of in house specialties. Can match anything you want from Derm to Orthopedic Surgery without having to worry about ever-accumulating and compounding interest.

How do you think Kaiser wants those first few match-lists to look to set the tone for the college? And the best part is, they have the in-house GME seats to guarantee and make it happen.
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Hoping he will have the required MCAT (GPA and ECs should be sufficient). He will be applying to Kaiser SOM and not sure he wants to go to a new school. We know Kaiser system very well. He had F/T scholarship for UG so we are willing to pay fully for medical school. However we also like scholarships 😉
 
srk2021 said:
Hoping he will have the required MCAT (GPA and ECs should be sufficient). He will be applying to Kaiser SOM and not sure he wants to go to a new school. We know Kaiser system very well. He had F/T scholarship for UG so we are willing to pay fully for medical school. However we also like scholarships 😉
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I didn't realize we were on college confidential. Your son is an adult now, isn't it a bit much?
 
Sunbodi said:
I didn't realize we were on college confidential. Your son is an adult now, isn't it a bit much?
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As I said in another thread, I like participating in SDN and CC and observes admissions processes closely (and continue to paricipate in CC BSMD admissions forums even though my son applied 3 cycles back) and he never participates. He is more like a Reddit guy 🙂 So take it easy LOL
 
If you want to live in the Bay you need to adjust your expectations. Want to live alone or raise a family, on one income, in a 2BR apartment? I hope youre working full time at Google at the same time. Co-living is the norm. In the words of a good friend from Cal, “the best way to find housing in the Bay is to have parents who already live in the Bay.”

Idk about SF but here in the South Bay you can find relatively affordable options if you are willing to commute. At my school the subsidized housing options are honestly pretty generous but space is still a premium. If you’re from the South or the Midwest you will have to curb your expectations.

Thinking about what I pay for rent relative to what I got for basically the same amount in UG gives me palpitations but then I go outside and I don’t really care so much anymore. That said, if I was planning on paying full sticker-price for somewhere I’d honestly recommend picking a much cheaper COL area.

I can’t comment on the UCSF curriculum or anything like that but if you want to live in SF/Bay Area long term then “U Can Stay Forever” is likely a golden ticket for doing just that.

AOA is dumb, UCSF should join its peer schools in just dumping it altogether or scheduling placement after ERAS.

Should you apply there? Yes lmao.
 
Last edited:
Lucca said:
If you want to live in the Bay you need to adjust your expectations. Want to live alone or raise a family, on one income, in a 2BR apartment? I hope youre working full time at Google at the same time. Co-living is the norm. In the words of a good friend from Cal, “the best way to find housing in the Bay is to have parents who already live in the Bay.”

Idk about SF but here in the South Bay you can find relatively affordable options if you are willing to commute. At my school the subsidized housing options are honestly pretty generous but space is still a premium. If you’re from the South or the Midwest you will have to curb your expectations.

Thinking about what I pay for rent relative to what I got for basically the same amount in Texas gives me palpitations but then I go outside and I don’t really care so much anymore. That said, if I was planning on paying full-sticker price for somewhere I’d honestly recommend picking a much cheaper COL area.

I can’t comment on the UCSF curriculum or anything like that but if you want to live in SF/Bay Area long term then “U Can Stay Forever” is likely a golden ticket for doing just that.

AOA is dumb, UCSF should join it’s peer schools in just dumping it altogether or scheduling placement after ERAS.

Should you apply there? Yes lmao.
Click to expand...

“And work at Google at the same time” :laugh:
 
Lucca said:
If you want to live in the Bay you need to adjust your expectations. Want to live alone or raise a family, on one income, in a 2BR apartment? I hope youre working full time at Google at the same time. Co-living is the norm. In the words of a good friend from Cal, “the best way to find housing in the Bay is to have parents who already live in the Bay.”

Idk about SF but here in the South Bay you can find relatively affordable options if you are willing to commute. At my school the subsidized housing options are honestly pretty generous but space is still a premium. If you’re from the South or the Midwest you will have to curb your expectations.

Thinking about what I pay for rent relative to what I got for basically the same amount in Texas gives me palpitations but then I go outside and I don’t really care so much anymore. That said, if I was planning on paying full-sticker price for somewhere I’d honestly recommend picking a much cheaper COL area.

I can’t comment on the UCSF curriculum or anything like that but if you want to live in SF/Bay Area long term then “U Can Stay Forever” is likely a golden ticket for doing just that.

AOA is dumb, UCSF should join its peer schools in just dumping it altogether or scheduling placement after ERAS.

Should you apply there? Yes lmao.
Click to expand...
or have parents who can pay
 
Lucca said:
If you want to live in the Bay you need to adjust your expectations. Want to live alone or raise a family, on one income, in a 2BR apartment? I hope youre working full time at Google at the same time. Co-living is the norm. In the words of a good friend from Cal, “the best way to find housing in the Bay is to have parents who already live in the Bay.”

Idk about SF but here in the South Bay you can find relatively affordable options if you are willing to commute. At my school the subsidized housing options are honestly pretty generous but space is still a premium. If you’re from the South or the Midwest you will have to curb your expectations.

Thinking about what I pay for rent relative to what I got for basically the same amount in UG gives me palpitations but then I go outside and I don’t really care so much anymore. That said, if I was planning on paying full sticker-price for somewhere I’d honestly recommend picking a much cheaper COL area.

I can’t comment on the UCSF curriculum or anything like that but if you want to live in SF/Bay Area long term then “U Can Stay Forever” is likely a golden ticket for doing just that.

AOA is dumb, UCSF should join its peer schools in just dumping it altogether or scheduling placement after ERAS.

Should you apply there? Yes lmao.
Click to expand...

U Can Stay Forever certainly isn’t a guarantee... I know quite a few of my classmates who matched below UCSF on their rank lists despite being competitive. I would’ve loved to stay in the Bay, but it didn’t work out. But we have a high likelihood of matching in Cali, if not in the Bay.

I know they were talking about ditching AOA, but I don’t know where they landed on that.
 
differentiating said:
U Can Stay Forever certainly isn’t a guarantee... I know quite a few of my classmates who matched below UCSF on their rank lists despite being competitive. I would’ve loved to stay in the Bay, but it didn’t work out. But we have a high likelihood of matching in Cali, if not in the Bay.

I know they were talking about ditching AOA, but I don’t know where they landed on that.
Click to expand...
this might be a vague question that cant elicit an obvious answer, but where do you think these problems stem from? Is it just the fault of a few in university leadership? Or are your experiences the sum of many faculty interactions across the board?

Also, the propping up of students randomly (or based on specialty aspirations)... is that codified in pencil somewhere or just the way the wind tends to blow? Congrats on all your success, and thanks for sharing : )
 
peanuttbuttah said:
this might be a vague question that cant elicit an obvious answer, but where do you think these problems stem from? Is it just the fault of a few in university leadership? Or are your experiences the sum of many faculty interactions across the board?

Also, the propping up of students randomly (or based on specialty aspirations)... is that codified in pencil somewhere or just the way the wind tends to blow? Congrats on all your success, and thanks for sharing : )
Click to expand...

Which problems are you referring to?

Idk if it’s codified exactly, though the grading system certainly enabled it, as shelves essentially didn’t matter for grades (you couldn’t fail and honors the rotation, but that was the only restriction). So it was really dependent on who was evaluating you and how they were feeling that day. This, at the very least, will be much improved with the new grading system.
 
differentiating said:
Which problems are you referring to?
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sorry haha that was not clear. I meant things like lower STEP scores (new curriculum growing pains?) or AOA being a joke. I've also read 4th years saying they generally don't feel supported/prepped for residency apps and interviews, though the weight of a UCSF degree usually got them where they wanted to go anyway (can't remember the source though, my brain could be making this up).
 
peanuttbuttah said:
sorry haha that was not clear. I meant things like lower STEP scores (new curriculum growing pains?) or AOA being a joke. I've also read 4th years saying they generally don't feel supported/prepped for residency apps and interviews, though the weight of a UCSF degree usually got them where they wanted to go anyway (can't remember the source though, my brain could be making this up).
Click to expand...

I honestly don’t know much about the current MS4’s step scores, but I’d imagine growing pains are a large part of it.

I discussed my thoughts on AOA already.

I do think that can be true - it depends hugely on what field you apply into. I applied into a small field, so felt less prepared than those applying into IM/etc by virtue of having fewer advisors- but in the end, it went well. And yes, the UCSF name opens doors.
 
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