UCSF or UOP??

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pearl50

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I know this has been discussed before but most of the threads on this are from a while ago. I am a CA resident and I want to specialize but I am not 100% sure. What do you guys think about UOP and specializing? Or UCSF and clinical skills? Thanks!
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Friend was in the same position as you. Ended up choosing UoP because specializing at UoP is definitely possible, contrary to some reports. Cant go wrong with either school though, i'd pick whichever you felt more comfortable at because they'll both take you where you want to go.
 
be careful who you take advice from. it seems there are quite a few people trying to get off the UCSF waitlist.
 
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Mr Tooth Fairy said:
Tough call. I'd probably go with the cheaper school.
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Well one is cheaper, but the other is a year less... A year less of schooling (less interest buildup) + the earning potential of that year is worth ~50k. So the prices are about the same.


That being said.. Both are amazing schools. Which one do you think you will be happier at? (i know people hate hearing that haha)
 
Machiavelliansm said:
and reputation!!

P/F grading makes UCSF a safer choice for specializing, unless you're uber confident you can rank high at UoP.
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It's an interesting pre-dental misconception that to specilaize, on must either "Rank top 10% at graded school" or "Get any grade at P/F" school. The reality lies in an extensive gray area in between.

To a degree, you will have to achieve excellence as compared to your classmates in a PF school (Interested in having a decent rec letter? Maybe getting accepted to your home program? Too bad you went to a P/F school and 20 of your classmates do also). Similarly, in a graded school, a weaker record (Think top 30% for the more competitive specialties) can be adjusted with hard work, excellence on objective measures (boards or boards-like exams), externships, etc...

Long story short is that residencies want people who are willing to work hard. Getting into a P/F school and doing the minimum coursework doesn't exhibit that. You're not going to get selected for your pedigree, you're going to get selected for your initiative.
 
Armor is right, the problem with A,B,C grading is the stress though ( for me).
Clearly, in a P/F school, if you sink at the bottom, no one would right a good letter of rec for you.

So, if you are a hard working student , either grading system will get you what you want. In fact if you are really confident and smart, grading system will make it easier since not every body would try as hard as you. Still, its nice to know if you suck at certain class, you are not gonna get a terrible grade in it. My two cents
 
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I think that money will average out becasue you will have an extra year of income potential. With that being said, I would go with UCSF because I think it will be less stressful. But with UOP you will have an extra year of being in the field which could yield a higher paying job quicker... But I would still do UCSF:)
 
UCSF over UOP easily. Its cheaper, its more prestigious, and it probably has some of the most world renowned faculty. I don't even see why there is a question. UOP is only three years and yet they charge an astronomical amount for tuition. And UOP'ers will argue that they get out one year earlier. And my reply back will be that you it's still 3 years of interest piled onto those large loan amounts. And I'm not so sure that an accelerated program is a good thing, most of the time they aren't. There is a reason there's only one dental school that chooses to do a 3 year program. I do like UOP though, but if I had the choice, UCSF hands down
 
BShimel said:
Based on?
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I think people often confuse 'prestige' and 'reputation', which aren't necessarily one and the same....both schools have GREAT reputations but given how extensive the UCSF system is and how far its health/medicine/research presence reaches worldwide, I think "UCSF = more prestigious" (UOP is still prestigious) is a fair assessment...

But prestige is not everything! Like others have said, what one is personally looking for in an education is most important.
 
I think people often confuse 'prestige' and 'reputation', which aren't necessarily one and the same....both schools have GREAT reputations but given how extensive the UCSF system is and how far its health/medicine/research presence reaches worldwide, I think "UCSF = more prestigious" (UOP is still prestigious) is a fair assessment...

But prestige is not everything! Like others have said, what one is personally looking for in an education is most important.
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See this is just my point though. I guess I needed to elaborate. My" based on" comment was intended to imply that it's really based on what you personally want to get out of your education. If going to a school with a known reputation in "health care" is what you want to get out of your dental education, then clearly UCSF is your choice.

If money is a huge issue, then I'd say UCSF is also the choice you want to make, although I don't think the gap is quite as enormous anymore as people would have you believe.

However, when evaluating where you want to receive your DENTAL education, I don't think the medical school reputation should really come into play at all. This prestige you speak of may be there in regards to research (however, UOP seems to have people publish as well, I honestly don't know the #'s between the two). Clinically speaking, I guess I just don't see where or how UCSF is head and shoulders above Pacific. Especially not to the extent that many predents on SDN would have you believe. Add to this a statement of caution by those in the know of Oral Surgery programs to be wary of the budget situation with the UCs, and all of a sudden a "clear cut" choice isn't that at all.

The main point as Namiie concluded is each person must decide what matters most to THEM. I'm not trying to make up anyone's mind for them, it just bothers me when people attempt to make sweeping generalizations based on some hazy preconceived notion they have of a school. Carry on.
 
IMO unless you're in a hurry to graduate, I would go with UCSF. I think the biggest thing, if not the only thing, going for UoP is that you can get out in 3 years.
 
Machiavelliansm said:
IMO unless you're in a hurry to graduate, I would go with UCSF. I think the biggest thing, if not the only thing, going for UoP is that you can get out in 3 years.
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Eh... if that is truly your opinion, then you need to do a little bit more research about the field.

If HE were here, HE would smack you in the back of the head for this absurd post then pray for you (you need it awfully bad.)
 
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lnngu said:
Eh... if that is truly your opinion, then you need to do a little bit more research about the field.

If HE were here, HE would smack you in the back of the head for this absurd post then pray for you (you need it awfully bad.)
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hahaha. Well, HE just just acts all big and bad on the computer...he really ain't about doing anything.
 
Machiavelliansm said:
IMO unless you're in a hurry to graduate, I would go with UCSF. I think the biggest thing, if not the only thing, going for UoP is that you can get out in 3 years.
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We could talk about UoP's clinical excellence, but I'll talk about something else that not many people may know.

UoP plays a huge role within the "political" realm of Dentistry. They were the ones pushing for the portfolio-based competency examinations instead of the second year boards. They were also the ones that revolutionized dentistry by pioneering the "humanistic model." You might not believe it, but dental students were treated extremely "bad" by today's standards before UoP pushed for this change in teaching.

When I interviewed at an eastern coast school, the Dean of that School talked highly of UoP. Why? The humanistic model which they ALSO adopted.

They are also one of the first schools that went to electronic route, and the three year route. The bottom line is that things change at UoP. They advance the politics, academics, and adopt new teachings (electronic or philosophy). To be in such a progressive environment, in my opinion, is one of UoP's biggest strengths. I plan to partake in this realm, and who knows, maybe I'll bring something new to the table to. :thumbup:

UCSF is a great school, but your comment smells of ignorance. Hopefully, this post has enlightened you :p
 
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Rainee said:
When I interviewed at an eastern coast school, the Dean of that School talked highly of UoP. Why? The humanistic model which they ALSO adopted.
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Same for one of my interviews in the Midwest. The Dean there called Dugoni "the Dean of Deans," the one guy they all tried to emulate. He also said that they modeled their program there after some of what UoP was doing.
 
UCSF is known all around for research, but they are losing faculty and a number of former graduates I've run into say how the school is on the decline clinically, though I'm not sure if that is because of funding issues. I suppose a good question to ask your interviewer is how many clinical faculty are walking the floor (excluding dental residents). In terms of research though, I wouldn't knock UoP either. Afterall, UoP did manage to hire away a big name endodontics researcher from UCSF, is where Invisalign was developed, and is where one of the research originators of fluoridated water taught. Prestige is all good and fine -- but it means very little in terms of your dental education at present, which is going to help determine if you sink or swim in private practice.
 
Montserrat said:
UCSF is known all around for research, but they are losing faculty and a number of former graduates I've run into say how the school is on the decline clinically, though I'm not sure if that is because of funding issues. I suppose a good question to ask your interviewer is how many clinical faculty are walking the floor (excluding dental residents). In terms of research though, I wouldn't knock UoP either. Afterall, UoP did manage to hire away a big name endodontics researcher from UCSF, is where Invisalign was developed, and is where one of the research originators of fluoridated water taught. Prestige is all good and fine -- but it means very little in terms of your dental education at present, which is going to help determine if you sink or swim in private practice.
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We are on the decline clinically? Since when? And who did you hear this from? A friend of yours? The way that people experience UCSF varies greatly from person to person. Just like a couple months ago someone posted how stressful and not great UCSF was from our class, yet I can think of maybe 5 people who would agree and the 83 of us would completely disagree with that statement. I actually talked to that person recently and he/she regretted writing that because he/she is happy at UCSF. You would find varying responses like this at UOP too. Also the fact that some of our faculty are getting payed to lead other dental schools, lets you know the kind of people we have at our school, and still have at our school. I haven't felt the budget cuts affect my education here in anyway so far and I am friends with many D3's and D4's who would attest to the same.
 
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DrDientes said:
We are on the decline clinically? Since when? And who did you hear this from? A friend of yours? The way that people experience UCSF varies greatly from person to person. Just like a couple months ago someone posted how stressful and not great UCSF was from our class, yet I can think of maybe 5 people who would agree and the 83 of us would completely disagree with that statement. I actually talked to that person recently and he/she regretted writing that because he/she is happy at UCSF. You would find varying responses like this at UOP too. Also the fact that some of our faculty are getting payed to lead other dental schools, lets you know the kind of people we have at our school, and still have at our school. I haven't felt the budget cuts affect my education here in anyway so far and I am friends with many D3's and D4's who would attest to the same.
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Maybe you haven't felt the budget cuts because they have been minimal until now...

http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/24764
 
DrDientes said:
We are on the decline clinically? Since when? And who did you hear this from? A friend of yours? The way that people experience UCSF varies greatly from person to person. Just like a couple months ago someone posted how stressful and not great UCSF was from our class, yet I can think of maybe 5 people who would agree and the 83 of us would completely disagree with that statement. I actually talked to that person recently and he/she regretted writing that because he/she is happy at UCSF. You would find varying responses like this at UOP too. Also the fact that some of our faculty are getting payed to lead other dental schools, lets you know the kind of people we have at our school, and still have at our school. I haven't felt the budget cuts affect my education here in anyway so far and I am friends with many D3's and D4's who would attest to the same.
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I know this may be shocking, but dentists who graduated from SF actually do come to the east coast either to complete their residencies or to practice. And it is not so shocking for alumni to keep tabs on their old school.

If you are currently in D-school, I'd be surprised if you'd notice a difference because you and your upperclassmen don't have a reference point. You have yet to attend the school outside of a economy in a bear market status. Dentists who graduated before you have though.

UCSF is a storied school, and yeah, some of your best professors are payed to lead programs at other schools. The current dean at NYU was the former dean of UCSF and reknowned oral surgeon and researcher, etc, etc, the list goes on. It says something about the minds that UCSF attracts, as well as the funding crunch that allows other institutions to hire away their faculty. For reference, feel free to ask your D3 and D4's about how many clinical professors are on the floor sans the dental residents. Compare that number with 5-10 years ago, and there might be a difference.
 
PLease verify this for the other pre-dents. Last year I heard a rumor about UCSF pre-clinical instructors/doctors were being dropped due to the budget cut. Therefore, the international students at UCSF had to assist the D1 D2s in the sim lab. Of course, this is just another rumor I heard outside of SDN, it might not be true.

Another experience is personal, I recently spoke/chi chatted with two random clinic instructors down in the clinic and they both were teaching at UCSF last year. Now they're teaching part time at UOP's night clinic so I am also wondering if there's a correlations with the budget cut and UCSF.
 
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I can understand that no one would want to talk badly about their own school but the truth is the truth. UCSF has been hit pretty hard by budget cuts whether you are willing to openly admit it or not. Professors at UCSF are forced to take mandatory furloughs (even though some show up voluntarily without pay). There are professors who are forced to take up other jobs. The dean remains adamant about maintaining the prof to student ratio in the clinics at all cost. Didactically, budget cut hasn't changed much. However, you can definitely feel the difference in the pre-clinics. It's pretty difficult to maintain 1 professor per row (approx. 10 students). We can't really fault the school for the state's financial blunder. With that said, UCSF did do a good job getting IDP (international dental students) to help out and alleviate the situation. UCSF is still a top-notch institution but I just feel like I have to get my perspective out (d3) there so people can make informed decisions.
 
So has the OP made his/her decision yet? I dont know much about UCSF but I can tell you this, you don't have to worry about cleaning up the wet lab or petty much ANYTHING in the pre-clinic if you come to UOP. Tuition well spend :)
 
hey, i hate to switch the subject, but i am trying to decide between LLU and UCSF. i'm on the fence. what do you guys think??
 
ok22 said:
hey, i hate to switch the subject, but i am trying to decide between LLU and UCSF. i'm on the fence. what do you guys think??
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Why would you consider LLU over UCSF? :confused: What does LLU have over UCSF? Unless you really like LLU area over SF, that is.
 
ok22 said:
hey, i hate to switch the subject, but i am trying to decide between LLU and UCSF. i'm on the fence. what do you guys think??
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UCSF all the way. You mentioned in a previous post that you liked that LLU does missions, guess what all schools do medical missions.

UCSF is cheaper, better known, and is in SF. What is there not to like? You mentioned that you went to nothing but Christian schools. It might be beneficial for you to study in a more diverse environment.

I grew up around Loma Linda, and unless you like smog and nothing to do it can't compare to SF.

To be clear there is nothing wrong with LLU, but if these two schools were cars LLU would be a overpriced Honda, while UCSF is a top of the line BMW you got half off.
Don't be the kid at LLU who rejected the school everyone wish they got accepted to.
 
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