UIC vs. Rush vs. Loyola

[Mixmaster]

Im curious as to which program you guys thought were better. Thoughts on teaching, name, fellowship opportunities/placement (cards), research, and overall happiness of residents.

Also what are your thoughts on the call schedule at these places, especially at UIC. I didnt really get a chance to discuss the call or days off at UIC with anyone during my interview.

Thank you.

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[stillhere]

i would like to know too b/c i interviewed at rush and loyola. (i didnt apply to uic) both places did not have pre-dinners when i interviewed so it was harder to get a sense of the atmosphere there.

 

[Mixmaster]

Anyone? Please.

 

[anonymous glove]

This one is tough for me too. I interviewed at all 3 programs so here are some thoughts:

Happiness: The Rush residents seem to enjoy their life - not being overworked, with a good schedule. Loyola seemed very collegiate.

Workload: Loyola is the toughest program, rumored to be so in the past too. You can work 80 hours at each residency, but it can feel very different depending on what you're actually doing.

Fellowship: All 3 match decently, with majority of residents staying around the home program. Rush is slightly more diverse in match.

Location: Gotta go with Rush or UIC for the downtown location.

Facility: Didn't think much of UIC's workspace.

Reputation: Hard to say.

I think the ranking must come down to your own instinct. Good luck.

 

[123456]

Also what are your thoughts on the call schedule at these places, especially at UIC. I didnt really get a chance to discuss the call or days off at UIC with anyone during my interview.

from what i remember call is q3 in the unit (although this may be changing). on the floor its a bit more complicated. each team is q3 overnight, however you alternate day vs. overnight admissions, so it ends up being q6 overnight call (although you do admit q3, with admitting only during the day when you are not on long call). dont remember the VA call cycle but i think its q8 long with alternating q4 overnight for cross cover. hope that helps.

as far as the programs, i like uic and loyola the best, with rush further down. loyola seems to have great teaching and a more formal atmosphere, whereas uic you have more autonomy and a great patient population. but what do i know?

 

[mtoto]

I only interviewed at Rush... and I guess it really depends what you are looking for. For me it wasn't the right program. I attended a dinner the night before as well.

Pro's: The residents were really genuinely happy and seemed nice.

Cons: no VA (which is huge for me)... bad interview with an interviewer who hadn't read my application (though one of the residents mentionned to me after that he was one of the few staff that she herself didn't like). Seemed like there might be a lot of private pts. no international interest at all. Bizarre Saturday interview day... with a mock AM report... this was really strange as I arrived later and walked into this sea of black suits watching ONE attending and ONE chief doing a "show" morning report. From what I heard it was a really boring 1.3 hrs.

But again it depends what you are looking for

 

[anonymous glove]

anyone? malignant or not? good rep?

 

[Mixmaster]

I only interviewed at Rush... and I guess it really depends what you are looking for. For me it wasn't the right program. I attended a dinner the night before as well.

Pro's: The residents were really genuinely happy and seemed nice.

Cons: no VA (which is huge for me)... bad interview with an interviewer who hadn't read my application (though one of the residents mentionned to me after that he was one of the few staff that she herself didn't like). Seemed like there might be a lot of private pts. no international interest at all. Bizarre Saturday interview day... with a mock AM report... this was really strange as I arrived later and walked into this sea of black suits watching ONE attending and ONE chief doing a "show" morning report. From what I heard it was a really boring 1.3 hrs.

But again it depends what you are looking for

That morning report was kinda wierd

 

[Mixmaster]

UIC: Shares the VA with Northwestern for half the rotations. Probably a little more scut than the other places but in terms of reputation for training I would think this would be the top of the 3 (maybe a tie for 2 with NW), no? Free tuition at the School of Public Health -- free MPH, kinda nice.

Rush: Nice hospital. Clean. More of a private patient population, which might mean a better reputation from the non-medical field person. I know the call is q4 which sucks but the residents did not seem to mind because by day 2 or 3 they leave at like 3pm.

 

[anonymous glove]

anyone with input on UIC? I like the match list, but the hospital as a facility was awful. Seems like there's not a lot of workspace, it's old, and the ancillary staff may not be as good as other Chicago hospitals. Still, I think it deserves a rank above Rush.

 

[futuremd1978]

I have to say UIC was my top choice. It has all electronic medical records, which can make your life so much easier. Overnight call q6 with night float (cross coverage makes your life easier on call). Program director really concerned with learning (e.g. practicing all procedures b4 trying them out on real people, landmark articles online, teaching 3rd year month). Match list was pretty good-excellent(Hopkins, UW, NW, UofC, etc...). Indigent population (better than Rush) and a VA. Opportunity for MPH. Being a undergrad, there is a larger endowment for research (which Rush lacks). The residents were all pretty cool and social. The residents at Rush seemed so exhausted (q4 overnight with no night float and taking days off on weekdays as an intern sucks).

 

[rachana]

Personally, I actually liked UIC's program better (the PD, morning report, EMR, more underserved pt pop'n) than Rush but I want to do GI and even though UIC has a great GI department, NOBODY got in/is staying this year. In fact, only 3 people are doing GI - going to Henry Ford, U of C, and Mayo. On the other hand, Rush matched 6 people in their class into GI. So for that reason, I am leaning toward Rush... would welcome any more thoughts as it's getting down to the wire now!!

 

[jashanley]

I'm at UIC as a EM/IM resident. The GI department is very supportive of UIC residents. They will take UIC residents but they also want to place them outside of the university. If I am not mistaken, only those 3 people applied to GI this year. So 3/3 with 3 great places, not bad.
I have enjoyed the program and would go here again if I had the choice. The medicine residents get well trained and work hard. The autonomy is the best part of the program as is Dr. Zar. He is pro-resident and pro-education. He has made great changes in the program.
I'm in my fifth year and the difference between my 1st year and this year in terms of residents and education is palpable. The chief of medicine is also pro-resident and has put a good amount of money into improving the work spaces. It is an older facility but they have renovated the medicine floors and they are as nice as any hospital I have seen. Don't be fooled by the entrances of hospitals once you get onto the medicine floors they all look the same. I should know I interviewed at 19 places for residency match,and 10 places for fellowship, this includes NW, UNC, Duke, etc. They all are the same.
Any other UIC questions?

 

[cbdoctor]

Any new thoughts on this group of IM programs from y'all this year?

 

[joejabjab]

Rush is still Q4 for 7-8 months and has a month in the north suburbs. No electronic medical record for writing notes yet.

Loyola is Q6 at LUMC and Q5 at Hines; they have an electronic medical record.

Both still seem to match comparatively?

 

[delphynium]

Rush is only ok - some IMGs, gives H1B visa etc. I would definitely go with UIC - much better! Did not interview at Loyola.

 

[joejabjab]

Rush is only ok - some IMGs, gives H1B visa etc. I would definitely go with UIC - much better! Did not interview at Loyola.

Why does that make Rush only okay versus UIC?

 

[DJ LACTULOSE]

back to the OP's original question.

rush, UIC, and loyola are all very similar programs in terms of fellowship matching and reputation. i've only interviewed at loyola and UIC so far and thought both programs were strong. i think i liked loyola somewhat more just b/c the residents seemed friendlier.

UIC
pros
-great PD. Dr. Zar seems to really have the residents' backs and is very approachable
-great comraderie
-diverse patient pop
-diverse residents, many different ethnicities
-50% main hospital, 50% VA
-good ancillary support
-brand new VA set to open before next year's interns arrive
-can take the metro directly to the hospital

cons
-hospital is 12 years old. oldest hospital of all the major chicago programs
-VA shared with northwestern residents. separate teams for each program however, except in the ICUs
-no guaranteed vacation during either new year's or christmas

loyola
pros
-great PD. Dr. Simpson also really supports the residents and seems like a great guy
-great comraderie (seemed better than at UIC actually)
-diverse patient pop
-diverse residents
-60% main hospital, 40% VA
-brand new clinic building
-main hospital is new and very nice
-strong cards focus
-good ancillary support

cons
-campus is in maywood. can't get there on the metro. but it's only about 8 miles from UIC/rush.
-no guaranteed vacation during either new year's or christmas

 

[joejabjab]

rush, UIC, and loyola are all very similar programs in terms of fellowship matching and reputation. i've only interviewed at rush and UIC so far and thought both programs were strong.

I think you meant you've interviewed at Loyola and UIC?

DJ Lactulose, did you get to see the VA at Loyola during your interview? Or do you know much about it?

 

[DJ LACTULOSE]

oops, yeah that's what i meant. we didn't see the loyola VA, but it's right next door to the main hospital. the residents i talked to really love the VA for what that's worth...

 

[joejabjab]

anyone know much about health insurance benefits at Loyola and Rush, including family/spouse coverage?

 

[delphynium]

Rush is not very good about insurance - do not know about Loyola.

 

[joejabjab]

Rush is not very good about insurance - do not know about Loyola.

Any specifics?

 

[DJ LACTULOSE]

Rush is not very good about insurance - do not know about Loyola.

sounds like delphynium has something against rush... i've actually heard that rush is the most competitive of the 3 programs.

 

[joejabjab]

sounds like delphynium has something against rush... i've actually heard that rush is the most competitive of the 3 programs.

Sounds like that to me too

 

[HoodyHoo]

any of you know if going to the 2nd-look day at a program actually makes any kind of difference in terms of your rank? thanks.

 

[minijoy]

BUMP for thoughts after your interviews at Loyola, Rush, and UIC for the 2012 IM Match.

 

[ricardos]

interviewed at all 3: IMO UIC > Loyola > Rush

UIC and Loyola both have great teaching, residents seem to be happy at all 3

 

[Dermpath]

interviewed at all 3: IMO UIC > Loyola > Rush

UIC and Loyola both have great teaching, residents seem to be happy at all 3

I interviewed at all 3 for internship. UIC's hospital is awful, and the ancillary staff is terrible. Rush overall sucks in my personal opinion. In my opinion also, teaching is awful, attendings not really all that great, lack of research, no EMR the last I heard, q4 call (unless they've instituted night float at this point in time), and your days off might be during the week vs. weekend. Most people who interviewed here also did not rank Rush highly, and it does not always fill.
Loyola, great PD, great facilities, recently renovated, strong placement list, Loyola actually takes a lot of their own for fellowship, research is pretty strong.

If i were doing IM, I'd pick loyola

 

[DrVanNostran]

I interviewed at all 3 for internship. UIC's hospital is awful, and the ancillary staff is terrible. Rush overall sucks in my personal opinion. In my opinion also, teaching is awful, attendings not really all that great, lack of research, no EMR the last I heard, q4 call (unless they've instituted night float at this point in time), and your days off might be during the week vs. weekend. Most people who interviewed here also did not rank Rush highly, and it does not always fill.
Loyola, great PD, great facilities, recently renovated, strong placement list, Loyola actually takes a lot of their own for fellowship, research is pretty strong.

If i were doing IM, I'd pick loyola

A lot has changed with Rush. Residents there were very positive about the teaching, both didactics and bedside. Also, they definitely do not have a hard time filling. They have implemented EPIC and Night float which has been around for >3 years.

As for Loyola, on my interview day there I was super underwhelmed. During the get together they have afterwards, a few of the residents were open about how they thought Loyola was borderline malignant and did not enjoy there experience there so much.

IMO UIC=Rush>loyola

 

[Dermpath]

A lot has changed with Rush. Residents there were very positive about the teaching, both didactics and bedside. Also, they definitely do not have a hard time filling. They have implemented EPIC and Night float which has been around for >3 years.

As for Loyola, on my interview day there I was super underwhelmed. During the get together they have afterwards, a few of the residents were open about how they thought Loyola was borderline malignant and did not enjoy there experience there so much.

IMO UIC=Rush>loyola

Interesting. About Rush, they have not had EPIC for a long time, but nevertheless, I really don't think it's a good program. I am not sure if I even ranked it. But that's my personal opinion. UIC has serious issues as well. I think Loyola by far has the best program, although I think the workload is probably on the higher side it seems. When I interviewed, residents seemed happy and well rounded. But then again, different people prefer different programs, so it's best for the OP to interview and make his/her decision as far as which is best.

 

[DrVanNostran]

Interesting. About Rush, they have not had EPIC for a long time, but nevertheless, I really don't think it's a good program. I am not sure if I even ranked it. But that's my personal opinion. UIC has serious issues as well. I think Loyola by far has the best program, although I think the workload is probably on the higher side it seems. When I interviewed, residents seemed happy and well rounded. But then again, different people prefer different programs, so it's best for the OP to interview and make his/her decision as far as which is best.

Can you expand on the "serious issues" that UIC has? There facilities aren't the greatest, but besides that what? Everyone I have talked to thus far has been very impressed with UIC.

OP, as you can see, there are very different opinions of the three. While many DP has Loyola as the best of the 3, IMO its the least of the 3. After you interview at all 3 you will get your best feel.

Coming out of the Chicago interviews, my personal preference goes like this:

1. Rush
2. UIC
3. UC-Northshore
4. LGH
5. Loyola (Loyola is definitely stronger than LGH/UC-Northshore, but I liked the atmosphere of the LGH and Northshore).

 

[LoudBark]

Here is the truth about all of the Chicago programs:

U of C > NW > Rush = Loyola = UIC > any community program in Chicago

The biggest difference between Rush and UIC / Loyola is no VA (if that matters to you, a personal preference) and about half the patients have private attendings.

Loyola is in a geographically undesirable part of the city (lots of drugs and prostitution in that area, but hey that might make for a more interesting patient population.......you just wouldn't live around there and may have a long commute to the hospital each day.)

 

[adagio]

For some reason, I thought that it goes something like Loyola<UIC<Rush

 

[DrVanNostran]

Here is the truth about all of the Chicago programs:

U of C > NW > Rush = Loyola = UIC > any community program in Chicago

The biggest difference between Rush and UIC / Loyola is no VA (if that matters to you, a personal preference) and about half the patients have private attendings.

Loyola is in a geographically undesirable part of the city (lots of drugs and prostitution in that area, but hey that might make for a more interesting patient population.......you just wouldn't live around there and may have a long commute to the hospital each day.)

This is probably true. A lot comes down to what you want from a program. My biggest debate is really coming down on how to rank: Northshore, UIC, and Rush. I'm not sure which one I liked the best.

 

[adagio]

Hi Dr.Van, did you already interview at those places? Someone once told me it all comes down to (gut) feeling!!!!!! what did your instincts tell you?

 

[jdh71]

This is probably true. A lot comes down to what you want from a program. My biggest debate is really coming down on how to rank: Northshore, UIC, and Rush. I'm not sure which one I liked the best.

UIC will likely afford the better fellowship prospects, including staying within the city for it (heme/onc isn't it?)

 

[DaBears5]

Rush overall sucks in my personal opinion. In my opinion also, teaching is awful, attendings not really all that great, lack of research, no EMR the last I heard, q4 call (unless they've instituted night float at this point in time), and your days off might be during the week vs. weekend. Most people who interviewed here also did not rank Rush highly, and it does not always fill.


If i were doing IM, I'd pick loyola

I don't know where you got your information from because most of the above is BS. I say this because I am a current Rush medical student (M4) and while I am not going into IM, I have more exposure to the IM department than you, Dermpath. While it is only your opinion, I felt I should clarify some of your discrepancies.
1. EPIC has been in place since 2009 and runs very smoothly. 2. The attendings are very good people and teachers. 3. There is a nightfloat system. 4. Call is only Q4 on the general medicine floor months. 5. I couldnt comment on if they always fill but something tells me that you as an outsider, who is not affiliated with Rush wouldn't be able to either. 6. Our new hospital will be awesome.
Rush is by no means perfect, no hospital system is, but I think that if you are going to compare these three programs, try to show a little tact and do a little bit of research.

 

[DMDchicago]

Dermpath, I think you're off the mark on Rush.

Disclaimer: I'm at Rush.

1) At the Rush medicine interview this year, they include a sheet with their fellowship placement over the last several years. They take their own a lot.
2) Epic has been around since before 2008 (labs, orders, billing); notes were fully integrated into the EMR in 2009; and since 2011, outpatient clinics use the same system. There are discharge summaries and such on Epic dating back to the early 2000s
3) Call on the general medical floor is as such: long call (~16 hour shift), off call, short call, off call, etc. There is a dedicated night float team. Seniors don't take 24 hour calls; their schedule is the same as the intern's (at most 16 hour shifts).
4) The new hospital looks great

I interviewed at all 3 for internship. UIC's hospital is awful, and the ancillary staff is terrible. Rush overall sucks in my personal opinion. In my opinion also, teaching is awful, attendings not really all that great, lack of research, no EMR the last I heard, q4 call (unless they've instituted night float at this point in time), and your days off might be during the week vs. weekend. Most people who interviewed here also did not rank Rush highly, and it does not always fill.
Loyola, great PD, great facilities, recently renovated, strong placement list, Loyola actually takes a lot of their own for fellowship, research is pretty strong.

If i were doing IM, I'd pick loyola