Uk surgeon in usa?? Reposted

[fhendo190]

Hey there.

I am a medical student in the UK and as you will all know we train pretty different to you guys over here.
Our basic training is to come out of school go to medical school/UNI (5 YEARS) then do 2 foundation years in hospitals and then speciality training.

I would really like to move over to the states once I have trained and have a few questions that I was hoping someone could answer.

Firstly, is it feasible for an englishman to work over there? Do any of you know any english medics there?

Secondly, does anybody know at what stage of training I should attempt the move? I have been told that I could maybe do my foundation year 1 here and then move into a residency post for year 1 there? Anyone?

Third, I know many of you might not have experienced the UK system but do you believe the standard of living/working for a doctor is better in the states than in the UK? I have heard the salary is higher (and yes, i mentioned salary but we all know deep down we can't be 100% altruistic)?


Oh btw, I am definately going into surgery not medicine, most likely cardio or vascular.


Cheers!

fhendo190View Public ProfileSend a private message to fhendo190Find More Posts by fhendo190Add fhendo190 to Your Contacts

Today, 04:32 AM #2 fhendo190
New Member

Status: Medical Student
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2

Oh and without wanting to cause arguements. What are the best states to practice in?

I have visited/lived in california, nevada, new york, illinois, washington, florida, texas, south dakota, hawaii, nebraska, colarado and missisipi.

I loved california but i'm lead to believe that everything is so expensive out there that your salary practically halves compared to other states...same with new york city.

​

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[bambi]

Go after F2. If you never plan on coming back under any circumstances you could go straight from school but I would definitely recommend at least doing F1. Going any later than after F2 is silly. Foundation will help prepare you but any specialist training would have to be repeated over there anyway. It is not easy to get a job in the US and I certainly wouldn't bank on it. Also, what year are you? If you are very early on a lot might change before you plan on applying, you might get married or someone close might get seriously ill and then you wont want to go so don't focus on it too much. Do well in school, do step 1 just in case but only do it when you know you will have plenty of time to prepare because if you aren't going to get a great score you are wasting your time. Apply for foundation and during F1 do your membership exams, well the first part at least as having it will make you look better if you apply to the US or stay here.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Bambi has given you good advice.

To date, most hospitals and employers will require that you be Board Eligible or Board Certified by the American Board of Surgery to be given hospital and operating privileges.

Board Eligibility/Certification requires training in the US; there are few exceptions. It is possible to work in the US with no US training, however, these tend to be international experts in their fields or are restricted to working in an academic environment under institutional guidelines (ie, you couldn't leave the job and try to work elsewhere). You should assume that if you wish to work here, you must train here.

Therefore, you should decide first where you want to live permanently. Doing your F1 is a good idea as you may decide to return to the UK at some point. But there is no advantage to completing your surgical specialty training in the UK if you are serious about coming to the US; you will be made to repeat your training here. I spent a considerable amount of time researching this when I was thinking of coming here from Australia; all surgical consultants I spoke with had to repeat training. More recently the ABS has allowed up to 2 years of approved foreign surgical training to be credited, however, this requires that you already be in a US surgical residency before you can apply for and potentially receive such credit.

Finally, where you should live is up to you. Some people would not think of living in a small town and others are quite happy there. California can be expensive but the middle of the state is quite reasonable (San Francisco is one of the most expensive cities in the world, especially for housing) and they have tort reform, so your malpractice rates are much lower than other states. Texas is much cheaper and is more physician friendly but...well, its Texas. 😉

Only you can decide where you'd like to live and you may find that you are relatively restricted on where you end up training so this discussion may be moot.

 

[fhendo190]

Bambi has given you good advice.

To date, most hospitals and employers will require that you be Board Eligible or Board Certified by the American Board of Surgery to be given hospital and operating privileges.

Board Eligibility/Certification requires training in the US; there are few exceptions. It is possible to work in the US with no US training, however, these tend to be international experts in their fields or are restricted to working in an academic environment under institutional guidelines (ie, you couldn't leave the job and try to work elsewhere). You should assume that if you wish to work here, you must train here.

Therefore, you should decide first where you want to live permanently. Doing your F1 is a good idea as you may decide to return to the UK at some point. But there is no advantage to completing your surgical specialty training in the UK if you are serious about coming to the US; you will be made to repeat your training here. I spent a considerable amount of time researching this when I was thinking of coming here from Australia; all surgical consultants I spoke with had to repeat training. More recently the ABS has allowed up to 2 years of approved foreign surgical training to be credited, however, this requires that you already be in a US surgical residency before you can apply for and potentially receive such credit.

Finally, where you should live is up to you. Some people would not think of living in a small town and others are quite happy there. California can be expensive but the middle of the state is quite reasonable (San Francisco is one of the most expensive cities in the world, especially for housing) and they have tort reform, so your malpractice rates are much lower than other states. Texas is much cheaper and is more physician friendly but...well, its Texas. 😉

Only you can decide where you'd like to live and you may find that you are relatively restricted on where you end up training so this discussion may be moot.

Thank you so much for the help! Absolutely brilliant. Apologies for cross-posting in another group - brand new to the site, sorry 😳

When you say middle of state, what kind of area are you talking?
Can i ask what made you decide to go to america? I assume you have moved from australia to arizona from your avatar? How hard was the transition? Looked at your stats too and seems like you had to move around a fair bit in the states for various parts of the training. Was it a case of going whereever the jobs were for you?

It is extremely complicated from the looks of all websites that I have found however it must be possible. I have a good year to think about it before fy1 so not too rushed but good to think ahead.

I also looked at a move to australia, but i'm guessing you'd advise against that?

I realise you'll be very busy so the help is very much appreciated! You have the nearest career path to the one I am planning to anyone else I have managed to find.



thanks again!

 

[fhendo190]

Go after F2. If you never plan on coming back under any circumstances you could go straight from school but I would definitely recommend at least doing F1. Going any later than after F2 is silly. Foundation will help prepare you but any specialist training would have to be repeated over there anyway. It is not easy to get a job in the US and I certainly wouldn't bank on it. Also, what year are you? If you are very early on a lot might change before you plan on applying, you might get married or someone close might get seriously ill and then you wont want to go so don't focus on it too much. Do well in school, do step 1 just in case but only do it when you know you will have plenty of time to prepare because if you aren't going to get a great score you are wasting your time. Apply for foundation and during F1 do your membership exams, well the first part at least as having it will make you look better if you apply to the US or stay here.

Hey thanks alot for the advice. great help.

I'm in my 4th year (of a 5 year course). Can I ask what stage you are at?
Are you happy to stay in England yourself? Have you researched potential moves?

If I did move, I think i would do so after FY2. It would put me in a good position experience and knowledge-wise to do well in a residency over there.

You say jobs are very hard to come by? Where has this info come from? I'm trying to look into it myself and it does look that way however some states appear short on doctors and are apparently going as far as advertising in california for doctors to move away from there to states such as illinois and texas.

Thanks again!


Thanks!

 

[Winged Scapula]

When you say middle of state, what kind of area are you talking?

If you are referring to my comments about the middle of California, I would be referring to the central San Joaquin Valley - Fresno, Sacramento, etc. It is far cheaper to live there than San Francisco, San Diego, etc. However, it is still more expensive to live than the midwest of the US (and more competitive as California is a desirable location).

Can i ask what made you decide to go to america? I assume you have moved from australia to arizona from your avatar? How hard was the transition?

Most of my family is in the US and I decided I wanted to spend the majority of my life here. I was raised here so the transition was not difficult at all, although I do miss Australia.

Looked at your stats too and seems like you had to move around a fair bit in the states for various parts of the training. Was it a case of going whereever the jobs were for you?

This is fairly typical. While some people do stay in one location for medical school, residency, fellowship and a job, most do not. The process for obtaining residency training is outlined here; in essence, you apply for positions at programs you think meet your needs, interview and then rank them. Hopefully you are matched to a position at one of your top choices. Therefore, doing my residency in Pennsylvania and my fellowship in New Jersey was where I matched. I might have preferred other places but sometimes we don't always get our number 1 choice.

I moved to Arizona to be closer to family in California and to be someplace warmer. Too much snow back east for me. Unfortunately, I found that medical jobs in California tended to pay a lot less, with a higher cost of living - it was not that important for me to be in the same town, or even same state as family and I was not interested in living in a small or rural town. Hence the choice of the 5th largest city in the US, here in Arizona.

I also looked at a move to australia, but i'm guessing you'd advise against that?

The AMC is more accepting of foreign training than the US is but I would not advise any move without you fully researching whether you can get a training position or job before you move. As a non-Aussie, non-Australian educated student, you are generally last on the list for residency training placements. Foreign trained physicians can get jobs and there are lengthy discussions about this in the Oz forum.

 

[bambi]

I'm final year. I sort of got the impression you were much earlier on from your post. You really need to start thinking about doing step 1 asap.

I had wanted to move so looked into it a bit but I am getting married now and he is much further along so moving is out of the question really.

Yes there are shortages of doctors in the US and if you wanted just any job you could probably get one but you want a surgical job which is totally different. You will need a great step 1 score, recommendations etc. In the US medicine is post grad so they have had more time to work on their cv and the likelihood is that if you went straight from school to med, yours wont match up so you are at a massive disadvantage. Also, to get a job you need to be better than the US grads, not just equal.

Hey thanks alot for the advice. great help.

I'm in my 4th year (of a 5 year course). Can I ask what stage you are at?
Are you happy to stay in England yourself? Have you researched potential moves?

If I did move, I think i would do so after FY2. It would put me in a good position experience and knowledge-wise to do well in a residency over there.

You say jobs are very hard to come by? Where has this info come from? I'm trying to look into it myself and it does look that way however some states appear short on doctors and are apparently going as far as advertising in california for doctors to move away from there to states such as illinois and texas.

Thanks again!


Thanks!

 

[Slaol]

The following website is the best friend of any Foreign Medical graduate looking to practice medicine in the United States😎.

http://www.ecfmg.org/

There are also other services out there (match a resident, etc...) that will help you find IMG-friendly residency programs that you qualify for - though I'm not sure how reliable these services are(?).