UM or USC??? ...

[Hysteria24]

That's all well and good, but in this case he's quite literally mortgaging his future by going to USC, which will cost literally hundreds of thousands of dollars more than UM.

Maybe it's just me, but changing the name of the place I get burritos and sitting in a different barstool isn't really worth 2 BMW's and the down payment on a house.

Once again, its really not an immediate down payment on a house. Upon graduating from Umich, WT would not be cut a check for $100,000+ go go spend as she pleases.

In reality, it is a smaller savings every year (10k a year over a 30 year loan) that is not payed toward servicing ones debt. That yearly savings can then be put towards a mortgage payment, or retirement.

If she wants to work in CA, and can somehow network while at USC and get a starting job that pays $115,000 instead of $100,000 right out of school, then she would actually be better off financially (+$5,000).

Now all things being equal, (same job and location working upon graduating from either of these schools) then Umich is way better in terms of financials.

I know I'm going to take this too far but here I go: Following the mindset of go to the cheapest school in order to save money for the future, no dentist should ever start working in CA. Salaries are lower and the cost of living is higher. A dental grad would be better of financially living/working in some unsaturated market in the Midwest where their big mansion is half the price of the small shack they could afford in CA. Plus they'd be netting more to start with every year.

Any person in CA makes sacrifices to live here. Just because it is cheaper elsewhere should we run away for 4 years of school so we will have more money later in life? Maybe we should run away for 30 years, and come back after we retire since we will have more money then. But why waste the money in Ca after retirement. Maybe we should just never come back, and save that money indefinitely.


Ok... All that being said. There will be a price point of a dental education that will make it too expensive just to stay in CA (not make enough to merely pay off one loans and living expenses). What that price is, who knows? Maybe USC is too expensive, and that money saved at Michigan will give WT the flexibility she needs in the future. But on the other hand it could be that WT could survive after USC, but will just have to make sacrifices financially just like any other CA resident.


(I was just trying to play devil's advocate a little here, so I know some of the logic I used is a little exaggerated).



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[UNR.Grad]

^^^ Good post

 

[UCSF2012]

Just do the military scholarship. Their yearly salary + 85k would easily be more than anything you can make coming out of dental school. Plus, they have some really nice stations thru-out the country. Er, countries.

 

[armorshell]

Once again, its really not an immediate down payment on a house. Upon graduating from Umich, WT would not be cut a check for $100,000+ go go spend as she pleases.

In reality, it is a smaller savings every year (10k a year over a 30 year loan) that is not payed toward servicing ones debt. That yearly savings can then be put towards a mortgage payment, or retirement.



.

All the more reason to choose the cheaper school. 10k per year over a 30 year loan equates to over $1,000,000 at a conservative interest rate. One could also view the money saved as a direct "Right out of school equivalent", because someone with, for an extreme example, 100k of educational debt and a 300k mortgage is better off financially than someone with 400k education debt and no significant appreciable benefit.

As to the cost/benefit of living and working in California, you're obviously willing to sacrifice something that's better financially for the perceived benefit of living in California. This may make USC the best choice for you, and maybe for the OP too. But USC is still much more expensive than UM, and I personally think it's unrealistic to minimize such an incredible investment (6-7 figures over the long run) in such a subjective benefit.

 

[armorshell]

I know I'm going to take this too far but here I go: Following the mindset of go to the cheapest school in order to save money for the future, no dentist should ever start working in CA. Salaries are lower and the cost of living is higher. A dental grad would be better of financially living/working in some unsaturated market in the Midwest where their big mansion is half the price of the small shack they could afford in CA. Plus they'd be netting more to start with every year.

Any person in CA makes sacrifices to live here. Just because it is cheaper elsewhere should we run away for 4 years of school so we will have more money later in life? Maybe we should run away for 30 years, and come back after we retire since we will have more money then. But why waste the money in Ca after retirement. Maybe we should just never come back, and save that money indefinitely.

I feel like it's only fair to say that this is exactly my viewpoint. After having lived in California for just about a year now, I haven't really noticed any difference from anywhere else I've lived, besides that the money I used to spend on gas and car insurance I now spend on jacked up prices for food and services, and my rent is 4x as much for a much crappier apartment.

My point is, we clearly have different viewpoints on the situation. Your seems to be that California is great and worth spending the money on. I, on the other hand, disagree.

 

[UCSF2012]

I feel like it's only fair to say that this is exactly my viewpoint. After having lived in California for just about a year now, I haven't really noticed any difference from anywhere else I've lived, besides that the money I used to spend on gas and car insurance I now spend on jacked up prices for food and services, and my rent is 4x as much for a much crappier apartment.

My point is, we clearly have different viewpoints on the situation. Your seems to be that California is great and worth spending the money on. I, on the other hand, disagree.

That's because you don't go to UCSF. You ever seen the Mission Bay Campus? That place is tight. Very lux.

You'd have to know how to take advantage of what a city has to offer. Yet, it's hard to do so in D school. Unless you go to USC cuz PBL gives you more than enough time to learn and do other stuff.

Food may be a problem thou. It costs 60% more for the same stuff as Atlanta. I guess it's an opportunity to eat in moderation and get cut.

 

[armorshell]

That's because you don't go to UCSF. You ever seen the Mission Bay Campus? That place is tight. Very lux.

You'd have to know how to take advantage of what a city has to offer. Yet, it's hard to do so in D school. Unless you go to USC cuz PBL gives you more than enough time to learn and do other stuff.

Food may be a problem thou. It costs 60% more for the same stuff as Atlanta. I guess it's an opportunity to eat in moderation and get cut.

Eh, I don't think it's the location. Pacific heights/Marina seems pretty posh, it's just not something that I personally value too highly on my scale of awesomeness. I guess I'm not into white truffle oil pommes frites or gourmet cupcake boutiques enough to appreciate this city.

 

[UCSF2012]

Eh, I don't think it's the location. Pacific heights/Marina seems pretty posh, it's just not something that I personally value too highly on my scale of awesomeness. I guess I'm not into white truffle oil pommes frites or gourmet cupcake boutiques enough to appreciate this city.

Anyone can dislike any city if they try hard enough. What's wrong with cupcakes? They're the best.

 

[Hysteria24]

I totally feel you (Armor) on the money thing, and what that adds up to over the years. There is no denying the large sum once it is totaled up However, I have run the numbers many many times, and even used your old spreadsheet for kicks that you posted on these boards when making your decision between schools. I know for sure that I am making a huge financial sacrifice, but I might not go as far as calling it financial suicide.

For me the "perceived benefit" of living in CA is due to many things, but primarily family and friends. Just about all of mine are here in CA, and I am taking a financial hit to stay near them. I value these relationships a lot, and more so as I get older. I knew going to MI, I would only get back ~3 times a year and lose touch with a lot of people. I've got little nieces and nephews growing up now and it's great to stay a part of their lives.

Additionally, 4 out of my top 5 things to do for fun/recreation and to bring joy to my day involve either being in, on, under, or around the ocean. Living in CA makes these possible. Going to USC, with the greater freedom during the first year of PBL, also makes these things convenient.

Eh, I don't think it's the location. Pacific heights/Marina seems pretty posh, it's just not something that I personally value too highly on my scale of awesomeness. I guess I'm not into white truffle oil pommes frites or gourmet cupcake boutiques enough to appreciate this city.

Haha... I feel you there. I was just there earlier today and that's not my cup of tea either. Pac Heights, and even SF would not be worth the financial sacrifice for me. SoCal is a different story however.


By no means was USC an easy/quick decision for me. But when taking into consideration my life as a whole, during and after d-school, it was the correct decision.

 

[armorshell]

Anyone can dislike any city if they try hard enough. What's wrong with cupcakes? They're the best.

I don't dislike the city. I'm just wouldn't bend over backwards and sacrifice to stay here, because I don't personally value everything it has to offer to the max, even though I do enjoy them. That includes the cupcakes. I rock the red velvet cake cupcakes with the cream cheese frosting whenever I'm in the area.

 

[UCSF2012]

I don't dislike the city. I'm just wouldn't bend over backwards and sacrifice to stay here, because I don't personally value everything it has to offer to the max, even though I do enjoy them. That includes the cupcakes. I rock the red velvet cake cupcakes with the cream cheese frosting whenever I'm in the area.

I wouldn't live in SF permanently, either. No car. Walking up 45 degree hills. Chinatown's the only place to get cheap food, and it's kinda nasty. 400k to buy a one bedroom condo. Few midrange shopping centers (Either it's a 50 cent Gap shirt or a $400 Saks Fifth Ave shirt.) No Wal-Mart (Come on, how can you not have a Wal-Mart? It has everything!) But I'm gonna enjoy my 4 years there, regardless. After dental school, SF'll likely be a memory for the storybook, and I intend on filling the pages with happy memories, dental school trauma and drama and all.

I wouldn't go to USC cuz of the cost. Hell, I didn't even schedule my interview. But I can understand someone wanting to live life a lil. Plus, PBL makes learning relatively stress-free. While the rest of us are spending our entire day in class, studying, feeling like we can't study enough, and feeling like we're constantly trying to catch up, students at USC'll be less stressed out.

 

[bbman4606]

OP, What was the decision?

 

[UNR.Grad]

Plus, PBL makes learning relatively stress-free. While the rest of us are spending our entire day in class, studying, feeling like we can't study enough, and feeling like we're constantly trying to catch up, students at USC'll be less stressed out.

I know a D4 at USC who would agree to this, he put ~2 or 3 days a week towards dental school and spent the rest of his first year at the beach and going out, lol.

 

[tjdent]

Well then I guess it comes down to whether you prefer experiences to possessions. I think id rather drive a taurus in LA or San Fran, than drive a beamer in Detroit. But everyone has their own priorities. WolverineTrojan just needs to decided what hers are.

 

[WolverineTrojan]

For me the "perceived benefit" of living in CA is due to many things, but primarily family and friends. Just about all of mine are here in CA, and I am taking a financial hit to stay near them. I value these relationships a lot, and more so as I get older.

Additionally, 4 out of my top 5 things to do for fun/recreation and to bring joy to my day involve either being in, on, under, or around the ocean. Living in CA makes these possible. Going to USC, with the greater freedom during the first year of PBL, also makes these things convenient.

See, i feel like i have the same thing going for me, but in my case it's just the opposite. My family is an hour away from ann arbor, and all my relatives are in the metro detroit area. So being close to home and saving the money on those airline tickets is a plus. It would also mean that I could go home more frequently.

Also, I was under the impression that PBL would be more time consuming? Infact, I read in one of the responses to your own thread hysteria that a USC student described the entire process as being time consuming. He said you go home write your research paper, (2 days to do this) and then you distribute it to your team members and you have one day to read what ends up being about 80 pages? Isnt that a little intense. Yea UM is hardcore but not that hardcore. lol

 

[WolverineTrojan]

Well then I guess it comes down to whether you prefer experiences to possessions. I think id rather drive a taurus in LA or San Fran, than drive a beamer in Detroit. But everyone has their own priorities. WolverineTrojan just needs to decided what hers are.

Although I think possessions plays a role, I dont believe its the deciding factor in my decision. Besides, ive always wanted a beamer hahah =)

 

[WolverineTrojan]

Plus, PBL makes learning relatively stress-free. While the rest of us are spending our entire day in class, studying, feeling like we can't study enough, and feeling like we're constantly trying to catch up, students at USC'll be less stressed out.

Have you guys talked to USC students whove actually said the PBL set up makes dental school relatively stress-free? That definitely makes USC a good option...but how long will that last before the stressful demands of their clinic starts? What have students said about their experience at the clinic? I read somewhere on here that all clincially focused schools care about is having the students do the dirty work, and working on as many patients as possible. Sometimes, their requirements are not possible to carry out in time for graduation.

 

[UCSF2012]

Although I think possessions plays a role, I dont believe its the deciding factor in my decision. Besides, ive always wanted a beamer hahah =)

You obviously don't own one. We members of the BMW owners club call it Bimmer.

And yes, the research indicates that students in the PBL curriculum retain more information. Traditional lectures force us into that learn then forget mode. And yes, comparing schools nationwide, USC students seem to have it easier. Time doing research vs. studying all day everyday and dealing with burnout. Your tuition money purchases peace of mind at USC. I'm personally going with burnout to save cash.

 

[armorshell]

What have students said about their experience at the clinic? I read somewhere on here that all clincially focused schools care about is having the students do the dirty work, and working on as many patients as possible. Sometimes, their requirements are not possible to carry out in time for graduation.

Yeah, I highly doubt that's true. The person who mentioned that (and I recall the thread you're talking about), is unfortunately someone who is very, very disappointed with their choice to go to dental school. I go to a "clinically focused" dental school as well, and that's definitely not the experience here. Dental schools lose money on every patient you see as a student, so that argument doesn't really make much sense. Remember, for some people the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, and they'll never be happy where they are.

 

[Hysteria24]

Have you guys talked to USC students whove actually said the PBL set up makes dental school relatively stress-free? That definitely makes USC a good option...but how long will that last before the stressful demands of their clinic starts?

I sought out opinions from many USC students, and none of them said the curriculum there made things stress-free. The general consensus was that the first year was pretty chill. Yes you have to spend more time actively researching and putting together learning packets, but because you have limited scheduled time in school, there is plenty of time to get these things done and to read over the other group member's packets. So in a way, there is time scheduled in your week to take care of these things. This is the opposite of UM where you are in class/lecture from 8-5 everyday and then can start studying for the first time in the evening.

But beware that the summer after first year is supposed to be a big wakeup call! This is when many more things are thrown at you including a lot of pre-clinical stuff. My though is that they take it easy on you the first year so you can get proficient at the whole PBL thing, and then throw other things at you once you get comfortable. So in a way things start easy, and then get harder as you move through dental school (including trying to graduate for 82% of the D4's last year). Once again this seems to be the opposite of UM where many students said they got killed during the first 1.5-2 years with didactics/pre-clinical stuff, but after that it was pretty smooth sailing.

Once again, this is all stuff that I have picked up along the way, and not stuff I have actually experienced first hand.

 

[Hysteria24]

See, i feel like i have the same thing going for me, but in my case it's just the opposite. My family is an hour away from ann arbor, and all my relatives are in the metro detroit area. So being close to home and saving the money on those airline tickets is a plus. It would also mean that I could go home more frequently.

This has got to be a plus for you and UM then. When I took a look at all the financials, I knew that each trip between the two states would run ~$700 on average (especially with prices rising).

Earlier on this thread I said I would be heading home a minimum of 3 times a year. So if I add another trip for a safe estimate (got a lot of weddings coming up) it adds up.

$700 x 4 times a year x 4 years = $11,200

Moving costs there and back also add up. A u-haul there and back costs ~$1,300. At 10 miles to the gallon, thats around $1,000 for gas (this summer is not a fun summer to move with gas prices).

$1,300 + 1,000 = $2,300 x 2 = $4,600 to move there and back.


Numbers like these ($15,800 total from these two examples) started cutting into my savings that I would have gotten by attending UM. For you however, they may be added to your total USC bill as they are not already included in the 4 year budget.

 

[UNR.Grad]

Have you guys talked to USC students whove actually said the PBL set up makes dental school relatively stress-free?

The D4 I mentioned earlier would agree to this.

 

[UCSF2012]

This has got to be a plus for you and UM then. When I took a look at all the financials, I knew that each trip between the two states would run ~$700 on average (especially with prices rising).

Earlier on this thread I said I would be heading home a minimum of 3 times a year. So if I add another trip for a safe estimate (got a lot of weddings coming up) it adds up.

$700 x 4 times a year x 4 years = $11,200

Moving costs there and back also add up. A u-haul there and back costs ~$1,300. At 10 miles to the gallon, thats around $1,000 for gas (this summer is not a fun summer to move with gas prices).

$1,300 + 1,000 = $2,300 x 2 = $4,600 to move there and back.


Numbers like these ($15,800 total from these two examples) started cutting into my savings that I would have gotten by attending UM. For you however, they may be added to your total USC bill as they are not already included in the 4 year budget.

You got too much time on your hands. You forgot to factor in that once she heads to LA, she'll get to hang with celebrities, sign a hollywood contract, and start her acting career, where she'll make billions more than Oprah.

 

[Hysteria24]

You got too much time on your hands.

Well... all of this was figured out back when I was trying to make the same decision. I tried not to leave a single stone unturned.

You forgot to factor in that once she heads to LA, she'll get to hang with celebrities, sign a hollywood contract, and start her acting career, where she'll make billions more than Oprah.

I apologize for this small oversight. It will not happen again. But if she is really going to make billions can she do her first good deed by paying all the tuition of her classmates as well? It's only roughly $54 million.

 

[umdnj101]

Hi I've been practicing dentist for some years now and to me the less you have in the debt, the better off you are going to be living and taking care of your future family. The extra 200,000 in debt from USC is not worth just "suffering" for a few months out of the year in frozen weather. Most of the time in dental school, you are going to be indoors anyways and they have heaters no?

Also, my niece currently attends USC and she does not like it very much. Many people fail composite, post-fixed pros and have to re-take them in 1st, 2nd year etc. If you don't pass you don't go on to clinic and you spend 30,000 more on a semester for tuition. She also tells me of lack of patients that you have to pay them to get work done - absurd !!

Bottom line is suffer for 2 years in lecture at UMICH, a top public school in the nation, and 2 years in their great clinics and you'll be done and be able to afford your own practice 3 years, not 7 years after you graduate.

 

[WolverineTrojan]

This has got to be a plus for you and UM then. When I took a look at all the financials, I knew that each trip between the two states would run ~$700 on average (especially with prices rising).

Earlier on this thread I said I would be heading home a minimum of 3 times a year. So if I add another trip for a safe estimate (got a lot of weddings coming up) it adds up.

$700 x 4 times a year x 4 years = $11,200

Moving costs there and back also add up. A u-haul there and back costs ~$1,300. At 10 miles to the gallon, thats around $1,000 for gas (this summer is not a fun summer to move with gas prices).

$1,300 + 1,000 = $2,300 x 2 = $4,600 to move there and back.

Thank you for this breakdown. It really does put things in perspective. I did already think of moving costs, and tried to figure out if it was possible just driving some things in my car and then buy the remaining furniture out there. My estimate still came out to $2000 (with hotel and gas). So yea it would suck b/c Id probably have to take out a personal loan for those expenses.

 

[WolverineTrojan]

You got too much time on your hands. You forgot to factor in that once she heads to LA, she'll get to hang with celebrities, sign a hollywood contract, and start her acting career, where she'll make billions more than Oprah.

psshhh oprahs got nothin on me! lol

 

[WolverineTrojan]

Hi I've been practicing dentist for some years now and to me the less you have in the debt, the better off you are going to be living and taking care of your future family. The extra 200,000 in debt from USC is not worth just "suffering" for a few months out of the year in frozen weather. Most of the time in dental school, you are going to be indoors anyways and they have heaters no?

Also, my niece currently attends USC and she does not like it very much. Many people fail composite, post-fixed pros and have to re-take them in 1st, 2nd year etc. If you don't pass you don't go on to clinic and you spend 30,000 more on a semester for tuition. She also tells me of lack of patients that you have to pay them to get work done - absurd !!

Bottom line is suffer for 2 years in lecture at UMICH, a top public school in the nation, and 2 years in their great clinics and you'll be done and be able to afford your own practice 3 years, not 7 years after you graduate.

Thanks so much for the reply! I really appreciate reading a practicing dentist's input. I feel like who would know better than someone who has actually been thru it? Yes I have thought about owning my own practice and most likely unless I strike the lottery, Im going to be financing it myself. And youre right before, my decision was based on where will I enjoy it more? Now, its more of which place will give me long term benefits.

 

[gijohn529]

Hey WolverineTrojan... you have your entire life to develop your clinical skills. I would say there are 3 important factors in your decision: Location, Costs and Learning style. USC is PBL and it's not for everyone, you only have one season in California and while I believe costs shouldn't matter, it does and you will be able to plan your future finances differently when you have less debt. Also if you plan on having a practice in CA, then you should look into SC. SC has a winning streak against Michigan when it comes to football so if you can't beat us, join us.

 

[WolverineTrojan]

Hey WolverineTrojan... you have your entire life to develop your clinical skills. I would say there are 3 important factors in your decision: Location, Costs and Learning style. USC is PBL and it's not for everyone, you only have one season in California and while I believe costs shouldn't matter, it does and you will be able to plan your future finances differently when you have less debt. Also if you plan on having a practice in CA, then you should look into SC. SC has a winning streak against Michigan when it comes to football so if you can't beat us, join us.

Well first, in response to that last part...I guess it is all about what have you done for me lately but its nice to have the most winning record of all time and the best tradition in college football.

The dentist I shadowed also has to agree with the first thing you said. She also attended UM but that was around 10 years ago and she said I hate to put it like this but her first few patients served as more "practice." But Im sure UM clinic is different now and shes doin well for herself.
It would be nice for consistency though..here we can seriously get a taste of all four seasons in one day..no joke.

I read up on some PBL info (http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/students/PBL2/competency.html)
and I dont hate on it like some ppl do. I think it would be completely fine. I know it would take some adjusting to but I think its do-able.

Do you think it is possible to practice in Cali (not necessarily the Socal area) without having attended dental school in the state?

Also, Im not sure if you know but do you know how they test students?

 

[Hysteria24]

I read up on some PBL info (http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/students/PBL2/competency.html)
and I dont hate on it like some ppl do. I think it would be completely fine. I know it would take some adjusting to but I think its do-able.

I totally agree that I would function quite well in PBL, but as you state it will take some adjusting to. A larger part will be due to the fact that most of us have had decades of schooling in the traditional lecture system, and by now it feels so comfortable.

Do you think it is possible to practice in Cali (not necessarily the Socal area) without having attended dental school in the state?

This is definitely possible. Upon graduating from UM, you would just head out to a site that offers the WREB and pass that test. I think the closest site to MI is at Ohio (Case Western I think). Most students at UM will take the NERB, and all their test prep is designed for the NERB. I have heard form some students that you might be able to skip taking the NERB with your classmates so you can focus solely on the WREB. The only drawback with this is you will either bring ideal patients that you have already found wile working at UM and fly them out to the testing site, or pay for some patient finding service at the WREB testing location.

Also, CA just implemented a +1 program. Here you can do a 1 year AEGD or GPR anywhere in the country, and with that residency can automatically get a lisence to work in CA.

The obvious benefit for USC here is that their test prep is all geared towards the WREB, and they have good passing rates. You can take it right at USC with patients that you have found while working there in clinic.

After getting your license, then there is the problem of finding a job. Many on these boards have said that an Alumni network is not a big factor and did not help them secure a position, but others have benefited. USC is obviously going to have a bigger network in SoCal and provide support even after starting work. A lot of your classmates will also stick around in CA so they could be useful contacts in the future. Michigan is also know for a great alumni network nationwide, but probably not as strong as USC in CA, and especially SoCal. Most of your Michigan classmates will also remain back in the midwest.

Also, Im not sure if you know but do you know how they test students?

Check this out: http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/students/PBL2/Assessing_Students.html

Testing for didactics involves only midterms and finals, There are 3 parts to each: multiple choice questions, a part that involves identifying items on figures, and a triple jump portion. All are discused in detail on the link.

Additionally current students have said that your work during case made up a majority of your grades, with the midterms and finals contributing to a smaller extent. In a way this puts more emphasis on your everyday work in case, and less on the two all nighters a semester you spend to do well on these tests. Students have also noted that many of these multiple choice questions are taken from old board exams, which gets you studying/comfortable for part 1 boards early.

 

[Hysteria24]

Oh yeah. I know my posts are a little biased towards USC for obvious reasons so I'll say this:

With the over $150,000 you'll save by getting instate tuition at UM over USC, all the small inconveniences I mentioned above will amount to nothing.

With the money you'd save in the end, flying patients out to take the WREB (worst case scenario) would be pocket change. You could also have more financial freedom to set up shop in CA. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, you will not actually have that $150,000 but what it can do is allow you to take out a $150,000 loan after graduation to put towards your own practice. So instead of having $350,000 in education debt from USC, you will have $350,000 education debt + you own practice compliments of UM.

 

[gryffindor]

With the money you'd save in the end, flying patients out to take the WREB (worst case scenario) would be pocket change. You could also have more financial freedom to set up shop in CA. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, you will not actually have that $150,000 but what it can do is allow you to take out a $150,000 loan after graduation to put towards your own practice. So instead of having $350,000 in education debt from USC, you will have $350,000 education debt + you own practice compliments of UM.

This is the reason to choose UM. That extra $150K loan you put toward your practice is where the real investment is. Building your practice is the main place your future income will come from, not the school you get the DDS from.

 

[umdnj101]

150,000 education debt is actually more like 215K on a 10 year repayment plan. If my calculations are correct, you are going to be paying over a million dollars on a 20 year re-payment plan at USC. That figure is enough to not attend USC plain and simple.

Since you are getting in-state tuition at UM, it's pretty obvious that you would be making a big mistake going out west.

 

[WolverineTrojan]

Oh yeah. I know my posts are a little biased towards USC for obvious reasons so I'll say this:

With the over $150,000 you'll save by getting instate tuition at UM over USC, all the small inconveniences I mentioned above will amount to nothing.

With the money you'd save in the end, flying patients out to take the WREB (worst case scenario) would be pocket change. You could also have more financial freedom to set up shop in CA. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, you will not actually have that $150,000 but what it can do is allow you to take out a $150,000 loan after graduation to put towards your own practice. So instead of having $350,000 in education debt from USC, you will have $350,000 education debt + you own practice compliments of UM.

I really like how you stated that. =) And you are absolutely right...

 

[WolverineTrojan]

150,000 education debt is actually more like 215K on a 10 year repayment plan. If my calculations are correct, you are going to be paying over a million dollars on a 20 year re-payment plan at USC. That figure is enough to not attend USC plain and simple.

Since you are getting in-state tuition at UM, it's pretty obvious that you would be making a big mistake going out west.

Yea you are absolutely right. I did read on their Finaid website that over 25 years once the interest has posted, Im looking at a million dollars on arond 25 year payment plan. And I hate to say it but its the truth, the money isnt worth it. Whether I end up in Cali or not, I shouldnt sacrifice my peace of mind after dental school. Its easy to talk off the seriousness of the debt now, but Im sure once Im done and reality kicks in that additional debt is going to incredibly stress me out.

 

[WolverineTrojan]

Hi guys,
I really want to thank you for throwing your 2 cents in. This past week gave me time to contemplate what I want to do...
I considered a lot of factors:

1.) Family:
All of my family and relatives are within an hour away of Umich. UM would also mean no flights to and from home for the holidays and any other random flights I would have to take for whatever reason may arise. One year is ok, but after 4 years thats going to add up and fuel costs and our crappy economy is not gonna help anything in the future...I dont think.

2.) Living expenses:
The $20k thats alloted for living expenses in both packages would go a longer way if I attended UM. I factored in rent, utilities, groceries, dining out, personal expenses and I still had a few thousand left over! The majority of that $20k in LA would primarily go to an apt. lease. Nice apts out there Ive been seeing, range from $1200-$1500 a month, thats a minimum of $14,400 a year! A nice apt around the AA area? Try $7500-$10,000 a year.

3.) Amount in loans
Taking into account the Max. budgeting limit each school provides, Im looking at $231,000 to attend UM and roughly around $380,000 to attend USC. Huge difference. And this is principal only! Although I really DO NOT believe I will ever use up the maximum budget alloted, (assuming I am conservative with spending), Im still lookin at saving at least roughly $149k if I attend UM.

4.) Amount to move out to CA
I would have to take out a personal loan for this stuff if I attended USC, in addition to the amount in loans I need to cover my budget. If I drive my car out there with a few thing and I dont rent a Uhaul, it only means that I have to spend extra cash in Cali to furnish my apt. Gas, hotel costs over three days, and furniture expenses will easily amount to over $3,000.

5.) Living style after graduation
While making the move out to USC now would probably make me incredibly happy and would result in a less stressful first year, eventually, Im going to pay the cost of living in LA...and thatll come after graduation. Four years down the line, I dont want to be cursing myself at 21 for making the wrong decision when I first entered dental school.

Attending USC would mean that I would have to make several sacrifices after dental school. I dont mind leading a conservative lifestyle but damn for how long? Ive already sacrificied so much, and after 4 years of hell, I, along with others im sure, want to reap the benefits as soon as possible.

6.) Length of time to pay off my debt
Exceedingly longer for USC than for UM.

7.) Grants:

Just yesterday, I received my financial aid award summary. UM is giving me almost $12,000 in grants! How can I say no to this offer!? If I wasnt sold before, Im almost sure I am now. They have a $57,758 budget, $30,000 of which is tuition and Im guartanteed not to pay $12,000 of it.

Grants from UM: $12,000...If extrapolated, this would be around $48,000 over four years that I can subtract from loans!!! If I extrapolate the cost of attendance budget over 4 years and ASSUMING I actually need the max amount every year the cost of attending UM would be $231,032 subtracting $48,000 from this amount will be $183,032 of debt I will have to pay in comparison to the roughly estimated $400,000 at USC once interest kicks in.

Grants from USC: $0



Final Decision: UM =)

I really want to thank all of you for taking the time to read my comments and providing your input. It has helped me out tremendously in making this decision. I have read all the comments here, read all the links provided...thank you hysteria24 =) and I have sought the advice of my dentist and current students at UM dental school. Ultimately the decision is mine. And I feel fairly confident in the one I made. Not 100% confident, but fairly confident. Plus nothing is 100% right? You just have to make a decision and hope for the best. The past couple weeks have not been easy but you guys' advice has helped me put things in perspective.

Ok so there you have it. I have listed pros and cons. I have to make my decision before 5 pm tomorrow. I am thinking about putting down my deposit at UofM by the end of the business day today. Im at work all day so I can read your comments. Please Please Please give me your input about this last thread. I would TRULY appreciate it!!! Are the reasons here making sense? Do you think I am making the right choice???

 

[armorshell]

Excellent decision. You'll dig up this thread in 10 years and thank yourself

 

[umdnj101]

.

 

[Hysteria24]

A grant from UM now?!?!?!?!?!

GO BLUE all the way!

 

[UCSF2012]

Final Decision: UM =)

And the boys of USC are secretly crying inside. They'll never get to talk to WT.

 

[Hysteria24]

And the boys of USC are secretly crying inside. They'll never get to talk to WT.

That's right. I just lost a classmate today

Haha... and by the way she might have to change that SDN name now.