UMDNJ-SOM or PCOM?

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eichetotheizzo

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Hey all,

I wanted to ask those that applied to BOTH UMDNJ-SOM and PCOM- why you chose one school over the other. (This is not to start tension between students from these two schools- they are both top tier DO schools that I wish to attend)

Just FYI, I am a New Jersey resident, interested in possibly going into general surgery or EM.

From my understanding:

Pros of UMDNJ-SOM:
- small class size (108)
- great research opportunity
- own affiliated hospital on campus
- cost (only $23,000/year!)

Cons of UMDNJ-SOM:
- very small campus
- last year's match list barely has surgery residents

Pros of PCOM:
- lots of surgery residents produced
- People on SDN keep saying it's the best DO school
- very nice campus (advanced and awesome gym haha)
- no hospital on campus, but supposedly has lots of affiliations with others

Cons of PCOM:
- huge classes (+200)
- expensive (+$30,000)

I have been accepted to both of these schools, and am going to have to decide to attend one of them sooner or later.

An honest feedback from you may help me make a better decision (I do know it is my own decision in the end, but knowing others' reasoning to their decisions is always helpful as well).
Thanks!

(And thanks Dr. Jay, Nate, and EMT2ER-DOC for your PMs throughout this process.)

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im sorry i dont know enough to answer your question, but maybe u can answer my question, how does UMD-NJ match list look like?
was it all primary care or did they have a variety of stuff (just not lots of surgery)?

thanks
 
Here is the zip file of past UMDNJ-SOM matchlists I found on another thread in SDN (forgot which one).
 

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PCOM's size is not a CON - it is rather a pro
 
thanks a lot for posting the match list

its little discouraging honestly, i dont see a lot of variety in the specialties

what do you think
 
Could you elaborate on why you think it's a pro? thanks


More human resources,

PCOM selects a top notch class yearly, most people in the class are well-rounded, highly inteligent individuals. Having a large number of such colleagues allows one to:

- Have a strong network before and after graduation
- A large number of self-motivated people for school clubs & activities
- Depending on how you handle your networking, more colleagues = more referrals once you are out there doing your thing.

You constantly have the opportunity to meet new people throughout school activities (group sessions, hospital rotations, etc),

As in most schools, most people form their clique groups which they spend most time with. But with a large class, later down the line you always have the chance to meet new/great colleagues with whom you may not have spent much time before. It kind of gives the class a sense of renewal which in itself is an asset.
 
I would imagine that every med school in the country is full of smart people. I'm sure a few *****s slip through the cracks from time to time, but they'll either adapt or get weeded out.
 
I would imagine that every med school in the country is full of smart people. I'm sure a few *****s slip through the cracks from time to time, but they'll either adapt or get weeded out.


Certainly,

but when you get more applications than other schools, you tend to have more of a pick.
 
I think it may help if you tell us more about what you are looking for. It isn't so much a matter of picking the better school, but picking the better school for you.

How much is cost an issue for you? What about the cost of living near the respective schools?
Are there any differences in the curriculum that you find appealing?
Do you think you would enjoy a smaller class size? Do you do better in small groups?
Do you have friends and/or family near either school that are important (granted, the schools are relatively close to each other)?
Does one school over the other offer more elective time?
How important is research to you? Is it something you just dabble in from time to time, or do you think it would be a huge part of your career?
What did you think about location?
If you are interested in community service or outreach, does a particular school have something you find appealing?
How did you feel during the tours?

I am only a pre-med (accepted, but still pre-med none the less) and am not in a position to be of any real help, but I think if you tell us what you are looking for in a medical school that people could offer some more constructive feedback.

I would just echo the comments made previously that class size can indeed be a plus. It comes down to personal preference, but there are certainly some pluses to it.
 
I think it may help if you tell us more about what you are looking for. It isn't so much a matter of picking the better school, but picking the better school for you.

How much is cost an issue for you? What about the cost of living near the respective schools?
Are there any differences in the curriculum that you find appealing?
Do you think you would enjoy a smaller class size? Do you do better in small groups?
Do you have friends and/or family near either school that are important (granted, the schools are relatively close to each other)?
Does one school over the other offer more elective time?
How important is research to you? Is it something you just dabble in from time to time, or do you think it would be a huge part of your career?
What did you think about location?
If you are interested in community service or outreach, does a particular school have something you find appealing?
How did you feel during the tours?

I am only a pre-med (accepted, but still pre-med none the less) and am not in a position to be of any real help, but I think if you tell us what you are looking for in a medical school that people could offer some more constructive feedback.

I would just echo the comments made previously that class size can indeed be a plus. It comes down to personal preference, but there are certainly some pluses to it.

Thanks for the reply. I will definitely write all those down recommendations down. They are helpful.
 
This is a very personal decision and one that only you can make. I was in a similar position last year when I had to choose between UNECOM and UMDNJ. If you would like to discuss these factors, we can do it via PM or e-mail.

However, I would like to say that both schools are excellent. I would also like to re-iterate what the other poster said that you just need to find out which school has the right "fit". Since you have a little time before you need to submit your decision, maybe you can sit in on a day of classes at each school to see which one you feel more comfortable at.

I would like to add that both schools work in conjunction. Incidentally, we had one of the Deans from PCOM do our lecture on Arthritis and has even written exam questions for our Biochemistry exam tomorrow.

Again, this is a very personal question and a very personal decision. While you can get some good advice here you really need to make it for yourself.
 
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This is a very personal decision and one that only you can make. I was in a similar position last year when I had to choose between UNECOM and UMDNJ. If you would like to discuss these factors, we can do it via PM or e-mail.

However, I would like to say that both schools are excellent. I would also like to re-iterate what the other poster said that you just need to find out which school has the right "fit". Since you have a little time before you need to submit your decision, maybe you can sit in on a day of classes at each school to see which one you feel more comfortable at.

I would like to add that both schools work in conjunction. Incidentally, we had one of the Deans from PCOM do our lecture on Arthritis and has even written exam questions for our Biochemistry exam tomorrow.

Again, this is a very personal question and a very personal decision. While you can get some good advice here you really need to make it for yourself.

Thanks as usual. I think sitting in on a class is a great idea.
 
I'm in a similar dilemma, with NYCOM added to the choices. I think I want to go into dermatology and was wondering which of the 3 would give me the better chance in going into that field. Anyone know?
 
Something to look for also is 3rd and 4th year rotations (where do you do them, how many electives, etc)

If I recall, UMDNJ has a very long family medicine rotation block during third year. PCOM requires roughly 3 months of surgery, and have lots of additional electives blocks during third and fourth years. I do not know how many required months of surgery UMDNJ requires or how many electives blocks they offer to their students but that info can be easily accessible through their website.



PCOM also interacts with the other Philly medical school in terms of clubs, sports, medical mission, etc. PCOM holds 2 residency fair on campus each year and students from the Philly schools and UMDNJ come to check out the residencies.
 
Something to look for also is 3rd and 4th year rotations (where do you do them, how many electives, etc)

If I recall, UMDNJ has a very long family medicine rotation block during third year. PCOM requires roughly 12 months of surgery, and have lots of additional electives blocks during third and fourth years. I do not know how many required months of surgery UMDNJ requires or how many electives blocks they offer to their students but that info can be easily accessible through their website.



PCOM also interacts with the other Philly medical school in terms of clubs, sports, medical mission, etc. PCOM holds 2 residency fair on campus each year and students from the Philly schools and UMDNJ come to check out the residencies.

Thanks for your info about the long FM rotation for UMDNJ. I'll write that down.
 
Here is the zip file of past UMDNJ-SOM matchlists I found on another thread in SDN (forgot which one).

I am kind of confused about the matchlist...
The UMDNJ class size is about 100 students or so, how come there were only 38 matchlists for year 2005 ? what happen to other 50 or 60 students ? they didn't graduate or something ????
 
I am kind of confused about the matchlist...
The UMDNJ class size is about 100 students or so, how come there were only 38 matchlists for year 2005 ? what happen to other 50 or 60 students ? they didn't graduate or something ????

multiple students match tot he same residency position. No need to list the same site five times under one specialty
 
Hi folks,

after re-reading my original post, I realize I accidentally typed "12 months of surgery" instead of 3 months. I have made the correction in the post but I just want to clarify my posting.

Sorry for any confusion that I have may caused by my typo.
 
I researched both schools extensively last year and visited both campuses, talked to both sets of administrators and students, etc. If I had to make this choice, I would pick UMDNJ pretty easily. I think it is a better school AND you save a ton of $$$$.
 
I think if you're from jersey and want to stay there for residency then going to UMDNJ is a no brainer. SOM itself has many residencies and fellowships and i'm sure the other UMDNJ schools would give a SOM student a second look over a PCOM student. If you're from out of state, you're going to have to decide which is hte better fit and if PCOM is worth that extra 14k/year.
 
dont u only pay the difference the first year only?

i thought u become a resident of the state after you spend a year there, and so you can pay in state tuition after the first year???
 
dont u only pay the difference the first year only?

i thought u become a resident of the state after you spend a year there, and so you can pay in state tuition after the first year???

i heard u pay in state for the full 4 years.
 
I'm no math major, but doesn't that equal $40,000 over four years?



There are some things money can't buy. For everything else there's $40,000 over four years...
 
im confused

im sure if you go to a diff state, then you pay out of state tuition

but im not sure if ur treated as out of state resident for the 4 yrs or just the first yr

i don't know
 
There are some things money can't buy. For everything else there's $40,000 over four years...

I'm still learning about the various DO schools outside Texas. I am pretty amazed at the high tuitions of some of the schools out there. Right now I'm working hard to stay in-state but it is interesting to learn more about the other programs out there. If I have to go out of state, I've got to consider the cost of attending pretty heavily.

Coming from someone who is currently paying off some student loans, $40K is roughly $650 per month over 10 years. That would be significant to me but maybe PCOM is worth it. I've heard great things about PCOM, but they've mostly been from PCOM students to this point.
 
im confused

im sure if you go to a diff state, then you pay out of state tuition

but im not sure if ur treated as out of state resident for the 4 yrs or just the first yr

i don't know

UMDNJ= in state tuition no matter what state you currently live in. It is very easy to get in state tuition.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but after looking at the UMDNJ match list, it seems HIGHLY probable that a person going there will end up in IM or Family practice. Is this true?
 
Does anyone know if it is easy to get into the PBL program at UMDNJ? Can you actually "try out" the program at first to see if you like it or not?
 
I think if you're from jersey and want to stay there for residency then going to UMDNJ is a no brainer. SOM itself has many residencies and fellowships and i'm sure the other UMDNJ schools would give a SOM student a second look over a PCOM student. If you're from out of state, you're going to have to decide which is hte better fit and if PCOM is worth that extra 14k/year.

this is wrong, EVERYONE gets in state tuition at UMDNJ - that being said both schools are great, I had the opportunity to choose and I am very happy with my choice.

the comment on UMDNJ's match list with regard to surgery doesn't hold much weight - we have a strong surgical residency program and remember PCOM's class size is almost 3X ours, there simply weren't that many people interested in surgery that year. if you're going to compare numbers for spots in certain fields do it by percentage, i think you'll get a better comparison that way.

J
 
There are some things money can't buy. For everything else there's $40,000 over four years...

you know what this turns into compounded after 4 years of med school, plus X years residency?:eek: still worth it???

not for me

J
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but after looking at the UMDNJ match list, it seems HIGHLY probable that a person going there will end up in IM or Family practice. Is this true?

we have a very strong IM residency program with a large number of fellowship opportunities, clearly our students have the best chance to match into those fellowships if they continue on here in IM so a lot of people do just that. our FM department is also very good and a lot of students pursue that.

I have a lot of friends going into other specialties, EM (we have a great program), radiology, anesthesia, derm, neuro, pm&r, peds, psych, etc. so my class's match list may be more telling than previous years.

another thing to watch out for is a lot of schools will have a match list showing a bunch of people doing traditional rotating internships, many of these students will be going on after that into some specialty but it may not be listed on the match list you see.

J
 
you know what this turns into compounded after 4 years of med school, plus X years residency?:eek: still worth it???

not for me

J



Realizing later down the line that you wanted a more competitive program and are hindered by your obviously primary care oriented program, is no joke, not being in that situation is priceless.

very much worth it for me.


I also could choose between the two schools.


UMDNJ is a great school but its mission is to prepare primary care physicians. They are being successful at that as can be seen in their graduating classes.
 
I believe PCOM has 8 wks of family med during 3rd year, which includes an OMM/FM component (please correct me if i'm wrong). UMDNJ has 12 wks. so basically you seem to be saying that one 4 wk block of extra family medicine gives me a huge disadvantage in terms of matching into competitive specialties?
 
PCOM may be worth it based on all the PCOM-pimps you see on SDN. It really does sound like a good program. I just think the money is a real issue when you think about it.

Although $40K (or more) doesn't sound like too much, wait until you have a mortgage and family expenses. That extra $650 per month will be missed. I'd need to see some hard data that PCOM's match lists overwhelmingly outclass other less expensive schools.

I've seen the percentages of graduates from PCOM and others regarding primary care, but that doesn't tell me very much. Those percentages don't indicate likelihood of matching to a specialty - which I imagine would be tough to quantify. That's the rub, you'd need to quantify the benefit if I am going to drop an extra $40K on the education.
 
I believe PCOM has 8 wks of family med during 3rd year, which includes an OMM/FM component (please correct me if i'm wrong). UMDNJ has 12 wks. so basically you seem to be saying that one 4 wk block of extra family medicine gives me a huge disadvantage in terms of matching into competitive specialties?

Thats an OMM rotation, the rotation can be done in a family med office if the doctor performs omm at least 60% of the time. Its also the only rotation that has to be performed with a DO. It is a three week rotation because the first week is spent at PCOM for an intensive omm review. Virtually no one acts as a family medicine student during this rotation.


Also, the issue here should be when you visited the school which one did you find felt better for you. The money, match list, residency and rotation oppurtunities dont mean anything if you are miserable because you choose the shcool that didn't fit you. A pissing match really isn't needed between these two schools. The only notable difference is UMDNJ has chosen to establish itself in southern jersey and not in philadelphia. There is good and bad to this (mainly good).


Ok I lied UMDNJ is in NEW JERSEY, that should be reason enough NOT to go there. <insert any jersey joke>
 
thank you for the clarification, really the point I'm getting at is what you're basically saying as well JonnyG...

what matters is the student, if you're happiest in one place then you'll most likely do the best there (leading to better grades and higher board scores), and that is what will get you your competitive residency position.

for those interested in the breakdown of UMDNJ's FM rotation = 12 wks
1wk interdisciplinary training
2wk OMM
2wk area health education center (volunteer type experience)
7wk family med preceptorship
 
thank you for the clarification, really the point I'm getting at is what you're basically saying as well JonnyG...

what matters is the student, if you're happiest in one place then you'll most likely do the best there (leading to better grades and higher board scores), and that is what will get you your competitive residency position.

for those interested in the breakdown of UMDNJ's FM rotation = 12 wks
1wk interdisciplinary training
2wk OMM
2wk area health education center (volunteer type experience)
7wk family med preceptorship


It's not only the student. Of course an unhappy student will not do well in a lesser priced or higher priced school. But it's not only the student.

It is also the resources, the amount of time allowed to do electives. It is the recognition by association PCOM students enjoy, particularly in programs in the philly area. It is also the large network base students can dip into and put it to work in their efforts to obtain more desired training programs. For example, you want to train at program X. PCOM has been around for so long, you are bound to find a DO who trained at program X or one very similar to it. You may more easily contact this physician, develop a mentor/mentoree relationship, shadow this physician, etc, which can very well help you obtain acceptance into program X - much easier than being a student at other places. The same goes for the number of electives, it's the same principle.

UMDNJ is a fine school, with an overall program geared towards yielding more PCPs that would serve southern NJ. It is not only clinical education, it is pre-clinical education as well. It is the emphasis on primary care activities and the fostering of these by the administration.

And the proof is in the pudding, UMDNJ is a fine school committed to increasing Jersey's # of PCPs and as can be seen by recent matchlists, they are succeeding at their goal.
 
PCOM may be worth it based on all the PCOM-pimps you see on SDN. It really does sound like a good program. I just think the money is a real issue when you think about it.

Although $40K (or more) doesn't sound like too much, wait until you have a mortgage and family expenses. That extra $650 per month will be missed. I'd need to see some hard data that PCOM's match lists overwhelmingly outclass other less expensive schools.

I've seen the percentages of graduates from PCOM and others regarding primary care, but that doesn't tell me very much. Those percentages don't indicate likelihood of matching to a specialty - which I imagine would be tough to quantify. That's the rub, you'd need to quantify the benefit if I am going to drop an extra $40K on the education.


The fact that PCOM has been in the top 20 of schools (allopathic and osteopathic) with greater number of non-primary care physicians, almost year after year, should be enough data to infer where the possibilities are greater.

Besides, it's not like PCOM tuition is like 50K or 60K. It is probably only more expensive that 3-4? osteopathic schools and about the same price as many allopathic ones.

It is a matter of how to maximize what you want to do with your education, you may make it anywhere, some places will make it easier than others. One decides what to do with it.

BTW, I don't like PCOM's tag more than you do...God knows I would love to pay half of what it is. Nonetheless, I personally feel PCOM gives me plenty for my money and the potential opportunities are, for me, very well worth it.
 
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