UMDNJ vs. Western U

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Which would you pick?

  • UMDNJ

    Votes: 80 53.0%

  • Western U

    Votes: 71 47.0%
  • Total voters
    151
Dr Simplicity

Dr Simplicity

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I am in the very fortunate position to be deciding between two excellent programs at this current moment. I am having a very difficult time deciding which school to attend. I was also accepted to LECOM-B but decided that PBL is not for me.

Which school would you choose and why?

I need your help/advice.
 
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Let me start off by saying I am going to attend UMDNJ so this may be biased.. I was also accepted to LECOM-B and NOVA-COM.. I chose UMDNJ because of the small class size (108/yr), combination of small group/didactic learning modes (I like pbl, but 100% pbl scares me), everyone was super friendly throughout the whole process even moving my interview up just because I was on a deadline at LECOM-B!! It has great opportunities for specialty and sub-specialty training at Kennedy and Our Lady of Lourdes and a bunch of other hospitals (but what school doesn't)...
I heard Western is a really GREAT school and they focus more heavily on OMM/OMT training with cumulative exams all through the first 2 years, which is great if you are planning on using OMT in your career.. My mentor's "best" protege went to Western.. she was really big into OMT.

At the end of the day,
you just need to reflect on which program you can see yourself in.. No matter what, you will get a top quality education and become a great doctor.. Just to keep perspective.
 
dofl2013 said:
Let me start off by saying I am going to attend UMDNJ so this may be biased.. I was also accepted to LECOM-B and NOVA-COM.. I chose UMDNJ because of the small class size (108/yr), combination of small group/didactic learning modes (I like pbl, but 100% pbl scares me), everyone was super friendly throughout the whole process even moving my interview up just because I was on a deadline at LECOM-B!! It has great opportunities for specialty and sub-specialty training at Kennedy and Our Lady of Lourdes and a bunch of other hospitals (but what school doesn't)...
I heard Western is a really GREAT school and they focus more heavily on OMM/OMT training with cumulative exams all through the first 2 years, which is great if you are planning on using OMT in your career.. My mentor's "best" protege went to Western.. she was really big into OMT.

At the end of the day,
you just need to reflect on which program you can see yourself in.. No matter what, you will get a top quality education and become a great doctor.. Just to keep perspective.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input!

Are you saying that UMDNJ puts less emphasis on OMT than western? How so? Is there less class time?
 
I chose Western. I went to UCLA though, and I am very familiar with SoCal and have family nearby. I like the fact that Western is beginning to incorporate an interdisciplinary approach. You get to work with optometry, veterinary, pharmacy, and nursing students which not only helps with personal networking, but in seeing how each discipline approaches problem solving. I also like the specific international opportunities available at Western as well as their clinical rotation sites. As stated above though, both programs are great. You will do well wherever you choose. On a superficial note though, the weather in SoCal can't be beat and if you have any free time, San Diego is right down the street (a couple hours anyhow). Best of luck!
 
Not less emphasis. Just taught differently.. I know we dont have cumulative OMT exams over both years but UMDNJ does put out alot of primary care docs that probably use OMT in practice.. I love the idea of learning OMT and 1 reason I chose UMDNJ because I was impressed with their very new OMT lab.. I didn't apply to Western as I am from Florida and that would be a little too much change for my wife and I..
I hope this helps.. Good luck on your decision making and CONGRATS!! I hope I will meet you soon! But follow your heart.
Oh yeah, but Western does have better weather 🙂 Unless of course you like the snow like me.. than WE GOT WESTERN BEAT!! haha
 
Decide on where you think you'd like to do residency and ultimately settle down to practice - west coast or east coast.

The location and local rep of your school plays into matching.

Setting up outside 'audition' rotations are a lot easier if you don't have to travel as far, and you can afford to do more of them.

Travel time and cost during interview season is significant without having to fly back and forth between coasts.

These are things that most newly accepted med students don't take into account.
 
Dr Simplicity said:
Thanks for your input!

Are you saying that UMDNJ puts less emphasis on OMT than western? How so? Is there less class time?
Click to expand...

I'm going to UMDNJ next year. One thing I noticed over and over again during the application process is that UMDNJ-SOM appeared to be the most "allopathic" of the DO schools I interviewed at - its admissions process is very numbers-driven, it does not require a DO letter to apply, and its stats averages among incoming students are quite high for a DO school (I was told at my interview that the MCAT average of this year's incoming class was approaching 30). In light of these preferences in the admissions process, I'd hardly be surprised if UMDNJ-SOM minimized its emphasis on OMM and other components of the "DO philosophy" in its curriculum.

On the other hand, Western certainly seems to be held in high regard also. (I wish I had a firmer opinion on it but I had to cancel my interview there because I simply couldn't afford a plane ticket out to the west coast.) Western's match list appears to be a shade stronger than UMDNJ's, but you would do well to consider the astronomically high cost of living in California as well as the huge budget crisis that the state is currently dealing with (which is largely a by-product of the large number of housing foreclosures the state has witnessed of late). Any state with as much debt as California holds is ultimately going to have to slash its spending on health care, which is going to have major negative consequences on residencies, rotations, job opportunities, etc. in the long term. New Jersey isn't in much better financial shape, but at least you'd be in proximity to audition rotations/residency slots/jobs in Philly, NYC, Baltimore, etc.

On top of all that, there is a major cost differential between the two schools. UMDNJ lets you claim in-state residency after your first year, and in-state tuition to the UMDNJ system is only about $25k a year (out of state is ~$39k, see attached budget). Western (if I remember correctly) is considerably more expensive, but Western is also one of the very few DO schools that gives out merit scholarships (DMU being the other).

So overall there's a lot to think about...but I'd personally go with UMDNJ unless you're convinced you're going to get scholarship money from Western.
 

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i'm in the same situation as you, OP. obviously both are awesome schools, so you can't really go wrong. the factors for me are that my girlfriend is a 2nd year at RWJ-MS and will be in camden for the next two years, so me being in stratford would work out perfect. plus i'd be saving a bunch of money in tuition since i'm already an nj resident. but she and i are both from cali originally and we both want to go back. real bad. western seems to have quite a reputation out west, so it might be the best bet for me in the long run. plus that place just feels right. great weather, friendly people, solid rotations. i know i shouldn't discount "the feeling," but i just don't know if i can use it to justify spending the extra cash.
 
AggieMed05 said:
i'm in the same situation as you, OP. obviously both are awesome schools, so you can't really go wrong. the factors for me are that my girlfriend is a 2nd year at RWJ-MS and will be in camden for the next two years, so me being in stratford would work out perfect. plus i'd be saving a bunch of money in tuition since i'm already an nj resident. but she and i are both from cali originally and we both want to go back. real bad. western seems to have quite a reputation out west, so it might be the best bet for me in the long run. plus that place just feels right. great weather, friendly people, solid rotations. i know i shouldn't discount "the feeling," but i just don't know if i can use it to justify spending the extra cash.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. Its really a tough decision.

If it was just a pure economic decision - UMDNJ. However, Western seems like an exciting place and I definitely got a good feeling there with the warm,diverse, energetic student body and staff.

And the weather can't be beat. IMO, Weather makes A HUGEEEEE difference in happiness, which may or may not lead to better academic performance. I feel that cold weather forces you to only study and nothing else - which is good for medical school. But cold weather makes me unhappy and might, over the long run, affect my overall performance. Its hard to know about this factor.

Although I'm not from NJ, most of my family is on/near the east coast. A significant pro for UMDNJ

Western has an edge when comparing match lists. But UMDNJ has the edge when it comes to a smaller class size (which is a big pro for me). Both schools have excellent facilities and I feel both are academically equivalent.
 
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To any moderator, is there anyway to make this thread into a poll? Thank you.
 
CBear Delivers! 😎

I'll have to say UMDNJ... but maybe that's influenced by the fact that I live less than two hours from the school.
 
Wow, the poll is all tied up. I figured Western might have pulled ahead by now.
 
BUMP

Any more feedback, advice, or votes from my fellow SDNers would be very helpful! Only one more week before the second deposit at Western is due!
 
I think i voted for Western😎. Good Luck with your decision.
 
Both great schools without a doubt, but I would go with UMDNJ, just because of the smaller class size and low cost in the long run. Regardless u are blessed to be in this position. Congrats!
 
tkim said:
Decide on where you think you'd like to do residency and ultimately settle down to practice - west coast or east coast.

The location and local rep of your school plays into matching.

Setting up outside 'audition' rotations are a lot easier if you don't have to travel as far, and you can afford to do more of them.

Travel time and cost during interview season is significant without having to fly back and forth between coasts.

These are things that most newly accepted med students don't take into account.
Click to expand...

Since you have 2 great schools with no blatant discrepancies that I'm aware of, I'd follow tkim's advice and choose based on desired coast of residency/future practice, hands down.
 
I canceled my interview at Western once UMDNJ waved their hand at me, so UMDNJ it is and period. However, if PBL is not for you, be aware that the new curriculum at UMDNJ has certain PBL elements embedded within the traditional settings. 😛

And for residency, especially after talking to many physicians, faculties, administrators, the bottomline is very individual based; it really depends on the applicant. It does not mean because there are several people from a school are getting a particular program and there will be a higher chance for you! Both are good schools, however you really wants to practice somewhere west coast, then Western it is! Good luck!:luck:
 
First off, Thanks to everyone for their responses. All feedback has been very helpful. It looks as if SDN voters are having a hard time deciding as well.


I've been trying to look at the differences between the curriculums and the class schedules.

I know that UMDNJ is adding PBL (which I like!) and reducing class time by 25%, but what else is known about new curriculum? Were classes 9-5 MTuWThF? and what about for our class? How much OMM lab/lecture is there per week?

How bout Western? Is it also 9-5 MTuWThF? How much OMM lab/lecture per week? Any PBL?

Are both schools essentially system based?
 
Dr Simplicity said:
First off, Thanks to everyone for their responses. All feedback has been very helpful. It looks as if SDN voters are having a hard time deciding as well.


I've been trying to look at the differences between the curriculums and the class schedules.

I know that UMDNJ is adding PBL (which I like!) and reducing class time by 25%, but what else is known about new curriculum? Were classes 9-5 MTuWThF? and what about for our class? How much OMM lab/lecture is there per week?

How bout Western? Is it also 9-5 MTuWThF? How much OMM lab/lecture per week? Any PBL?

Are both schools essentially system based?
Click to expand...

If I remember correctly, one of the selling points of the UMDNJ curriculum was that lectures were not mandatory and there was a mixture of PBL-style and lecture-based teaching styles.

Here's a link with more details: http://som.umdnj.edu/education/academic_program/undergrad/undergrad_preclin.html
 
CBoJackson16 said:
but in seeing how each discipline approaches problem solving. I also like the specific international opportunities available at Western as well as their clinical rotation sites.
Click to expand...

What are the rotation sites at Western?
 
I liked both schools, but got a much warmer feel from the students and faculty at UMDNJ. Very subjective account. Best of luck!!!
 
Western is primarily lecture based, but also has PBL-sessions involved in the curriculum. Also, Western just adopted an interdisciplinary based session as well which will allow DO students to work with nursing, pharmacy, vet, and optometry students on solving different medical scenarios. The idea is to help foster and encourage cross-talk and communication between different medical disciplines. I also think that depending on the particular material being covered time in class will vary, but very rarely is a 9-5 type of deal. When I was at Western the 2nd year students were taking a cranial-sacral OMM seminar which students from other campuses were coming to attend because it is not widely offered at most schools. I don't know anything about UMDNJ, but I am sure it is also fantastic---just happens to be on the opposite side of the states for me. Best of luck.
 
dozitgetchahi said:
If I remember correctly, one of the selling points of the UMDNJ curriculum was that lectures were not mandatory and there was a mixture of PBL-style and lecture-based teaching styles.

Here's a link with more details: http://som.umdnj.edu/education/academic_program/undergrad/undergrad_preclin.html
Click to expand...

My friend is at Western right now finishing up his second year. He said that lectures are online so he doesn't have to go to class all the time. I don't know if this is available for all classes, for both years, or what the rules are about attendance. But for a while he was waking up whenever he wanted and just watching lecture videos off the computer.
 
FuSoYa said:
My friend is at Western right now finishing up his second year. He said that lectures are online so he doesn't have to go to class all the time. I don't know if this is available for all classes, for both years, or what the rules are about attendance. But for a while he was waking up whenever he wanted and just watching lecture videos off the computer.
Click to expand...

This is pretty much the standard of almost all the schools now. It should not be factored into the decision at all, in my opinion.
 
This school is great! I am in the graduate program taking a medical school
course with along with my other graduate courses. To answer the question about video and audio taped lectures, the answer is yes!
They are sooo helpful. Class attendance is not required, but I love going to class because my professors are awesome! I can look and listen to
lectures anytime I want, it reinforces details that I did not notice while originally in attendance. Next year, I hope to be accepted into the UMDNJ-SOM. Student are treated very well; clinical opportunities abound
even for graduate students. The winter are very mild in comparison to New York and Maine. Quality education for your dollar! If you decline,
maybe, I will have a shot 🙂
 
I've also been accepted to UMDNJ and I'm trying to decide between there and UNECOM.


The price difference seems to be huge (43k at UNECOM vs. 25k at UMDNJ after year 1). That's certainly a factor.

But the biggest thing that is drawing me to UMDNJ is how awesome I was treated. I felt like everyone there wanted me personally to be there.

Plus its the smallest class size of all the schools.

The UNECOM match list seems to be a bit better but if you like the school then you will do better.

I'm still a bit torn.
 
rsjet said:
I've also been accepted to UMDNJ and I'm trying to decide between there and UNECOM.


The price difference seems to be huge (43k at UNECOM vs. 25k at UMDNJ after year 1). That's certainly a factor.

But the biggest thing that is drawing me to UMDNJ is how awesome I was treated. I felt like everyone there wanted me personally to be there.

Plus its the smallest class size of all the schools.

The UNECOM match list seems to be a bit better but if you like the school then you will do better.

I'm still a bit torn.
Click to expand...

Go cheap.
 
rsjet said:
I am really leaning towards UMDNJ especially since I got a 12k scholarship from there too. (3k/year).
Click to expand...

UMDNJ is giving out scholarships? Which scholarship? And how were you notified?

The only scholarships I've heard of thus far have been for very unusual kinds of student populations (i.e. one they just sent me an email about is only for students of Syrian or Lebanese descent).
 
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dozitgetchahi said:
UMDNJ is giving our scholarships? Which scholarship? And how were you notified?

The only scholarships I've heard of thus far have been for very unusual kinds of student populations (i.e. one they just sent me an email about is only for students of Syrian or Lebanese descent).
Click to expand...


^Yeaaaaa, same here, I was wondering this too😕
 
CBoJackson16 said:
Western just adopted an interdisciplinary based session as well which will allow DO students to work with nursing, pharmacy, vet, and optometry students on solving different medical scenarios.
Click to expand...

This means you can find and meet more cute girls in Western. Also, you might get laid more. GO to Western!
 
What is pbl?
 
HPSPpayissues said:
This means you can find and meet more cute girls in Western. Also, you might get laid more. GO to Western!
Click to expand...

Of course all major life altering decisions should take into consideration the degree and frequency of getting laid. 😎
 
Chuck's Right Foot said:
Darwin agrees! 😉

Has the OP made a choice?
Click to expand...

Not yet. I did put my 2nd deposit at Western last month to give me more time to decide. I think i'm favoring UMDNJ right now because its cheaper (tuition, cost of living) and closer to friends/family. However, my positive interview experience at Western and the lure of better weather are keeping Western alive. I haven't heard back from the other schools I've interviewed yet so i'm playing the waiting game.

Which school are you leaning towards right now? You seem to have an excellent list of schools to decide from and many top notch waitlist schools! i would have no idea how to decide if i were in your shoes.
 
Dr Simplicity said:
Not yet. I did put my 2nd deposit at Western last month to give me more time to decide. I think i'm favoring UMDNJ right now because its cheaper (tuition, cost of living) and closer to friends/family. However, my positive interview experience at Western and the lure of better weather are keeping Western alive. I haven't heard back from the other schools I've interviewed yet so i'm playing the waiting game.

Which school are you leaning towards right now? You seem to have an excellent list of schools to decide from and many top notch waitlist schools! i would have no idea how to decide if i were in your shoes.
Click to expand...

I am hoping to get off the list at Pitt or Miami. Right now I am leaning towards RFU. I'm holding onto UMDNJ though. I really like UMDNJ, I just think I'll have a better shot at what I am leaning twoards if I go MD instead of DO. If I knew I wanted to do general Peds, I'd probably go to UMDNJ-SOM without hesitation.
 
I know I know! I haven't made a decision yet and have flip-flopped so many times that i've been tempted to let the flip of a coin make the decision for me. I know I really can't go wrong with this decision.

Right now, I am close to choosing UMDNJ because of the following reasons:

-Smaller class size
-I like the new curriculum, board style block exams, and how anatomy is spread out throughout the first year
-the fact that UMDNJ is 11 miles from philly which will give my wife-to-be (in almost 2 weeks 😀) more opportunities for law school (temple, upenn, rutgers, and drexel)
-closer to family
-cheaper cost
-its own affiliated hospital system

However, UMDNJ's match list is where I'm worried. I will most likely want to match into a MD residency and it seems that most UMDNJ SOM grads get DO residencies. Western grads get mostly MD residencies and consistently get into more competitive residencies.

Although western has better weather, it isn't important when considering my wife will have a much longer commute to get to LA for school (UCLA or USC). So essentially it boils down to this - How important are match lists?

Hopefully, the new blood here can untie this poll!
 
For me, I'd choose western. Here's my personal view on it. My goal is to gain a Cali MD residency someday in something like EM. It seems, after reading through these forums, that away rotations matter a lot. Western is conveniently located near some good Ca programs, so I'd say it would be an ideal choice if you want allo in Ca.
 
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