UMDNJ vs. Western U

[beckhunter116]

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I know I know! I haven't made a decision yet and have flip-flopped so many times that i've been tempted to let the flip of a coin make the decision for me. I know I really can't go wrong with this decision.

Right now, I am close to choosing UMDNJ because of the following reasons:

-Smaller class size
-I like the new curriculum, board style block exams, and how anatomy is spread out throughout the first year
-the fact that UMDNJ is 11 miles from philly which will give my wife-to-be (in almost 2 weeks 😀) more opportunities for law school (temple, upenn, rutgers, and drexel)
-closer to family
-cheaper cost
-its own affiliated hospital system

However, UMDNJ's match list is where I'm worried. I will most likely want to match into a MD residency and it seems that most UMDNJ SOM grads get DO residencies. Western grads get mostly MD residencies and consistently get into more competitive residencies.

Although western has better weather, it isn't important when considering my wife will have a much longer commute to get to LA for school (UCLA or USC). So essentially it boils down to this - How important are match lists?

Hopefully, the new blood here can untie this poll!

I would choose UMDNJ (only b/c I'm an east coaster and plan to stay that way for awhile), but from all the threads about match list they are really hard to make a decision on a school solely based on that.

What if the majority of the UMDNJ SOM graduates wanted DO residencies (probably at their own affliate hospital) and got their #1 choice, see this is what you don't know from the list and it is hard to find.

Or say that the list is mostly primary care, that could be b/c everyone wanted that, not that they had to scramble into that.

Basically, if you know what you want to do and set out to make the connections, volunteer there, do research in the summer , ect you can make a lot of things happen for yourself, even at institutes that rarely take DO's.

Now, if you want to get a residency in California, then I would go with Western b/c you would want to do your electives at the institutes you like and travel would get to be expensive from the east coast.

Let us know what you finally decide!

 

[JaggerPlate]

I'd choose UMDNJ because of the rotations, connections with the UMDNJ system, small class size, and how easy you can get instate status in Jersey.

 

[beckhunter116]

I was curious where the OP decided to attend and I know at least beckhunter116 was too. After all of this, looks like the OP withdrew from both and went to an MD school.

Well on his profile information it says his signature is WVU School of Medicine, so I guess that's where he went.

 

[Cheshyre]

Bump.

I'm almost in the same position now - Western or UMDNJ. I'm OOS for both. I say almost because I've been accepted at WCOMP but waitlisted, albeit in the top ten, at UMDNJ. To be honest, I've basically decided on Western. I'm writing this just to provide some more up-to-date information in this thread.

As has been pointed out, Western is horrendously expensive. SoCal in general is expensive, yet, tuition at WCOMP is said to be around $46K for the next year. I also heard that the school has been planning this increase for a while and wants to end the increase in 2012 with a tuition of $48K. Housing seems to be in the 700-900$ range. This essentially works out to leave a student about $300K in debt. Nasty.

However, UMDNJ may not be much better. I don't think anybody has any numbers yet, but costs are expected to go up substantially for the next school year. Tuition for OOS is $41K at present. Given a possible 10% increase, it's similar to Western. Also, rumor has it that UMDNJSOM may stop offering in-state status to students who have attended SOM for one year. I've heard housing is in the $400-700 range.

Personally, I believe both schools are very similar. They have similarly strong reputations, strong incoming class stats, and board scores. I find that both provide ample opportunity for students to become comfortable with working with patients in real-world settings. UMDNJ has preceptorships, WCOMP has clinics on campus. Both have standardized patient labs. I wasn't able to see UMDNJ's lab, but WCOMP's std. pt. lab seems large and very well designed. I believe WCOMP has the highest StepII CE score in the nation as a result of this. In talking to students, both seem to have a friendly atmosphere. However, Stratford, NJ seems to be a place that is about as friendly as you can get. UMDNJ gets the edge there. Both are in states with severe budget issues. I think the magnitude with which it will affect students remains to be seen. The main difference I see (other than location) is that UMDNJ has a small set of 3 core rotation sites, whereas Western has around 8. I'm not totally sure on those numbers, but they should be in the ballpark. I think that both schools offer at least one elective spot during the 3rd year.

In this application cycle, both have been my top choice and I've flip-flopped between both multiple times. Perhaps if UMDNJ had gotten back to me earlier, I would've mailed out a deposit to Jersey instead of Cali this morning. I've been told this advice many times and I'm sure everybody else here has as well, but, go to the place where you feel most comfortable. To all who are in the situation of choosing between schools, best of luck.

EDIT:

One issue that I haven't been able track down regards, I believe, a single complaint about WCOMP "abandoning" it's 3rd and 4th year students as they look for rotations. Can any current COMP students shed some light on the situation?

 

[Grey Wind]

link to post about western's clinical sites, if it helps ya:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=352351

good luck.

 

[Cheshyre]

Thanks Grey. That's really helpful. I guess I'll be seeing you in the Fall!

 

[Grey Wind]

Thanks Grey. That's really helpful. I guess I'll be seeing you in the Fall!

👍

 

[marke]

I agree with the comments that you should pick a school based on ur preference of where you want to do ur residency/practice!

If you want to do residency in California or the west coast in general, definitely WesternU. Western has a VERY SOLID reputation in Cali. I rotated through one of the hospitals with a competitive residency in Cali and needless to say, they have residents that graduated from Western. In addition, when I tried to find D.O. to shadow in SoCal over 80% I would say are graduate of Western.

That being said, I am pretty sure it's the same scenario in reverse if you were to stay in the east coast.

Both are great school! but for me, Western!!!

 

[JeetKuneDo]

link to post about western's clinical sites, if it helps ya:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=352351

good luck.

Arrowhead regional medical center. I wiki'd that place, seems like a great place to rotate.

 

[DevSharmz10]

Western U - IS IN CALIFORNIA!

UMDNJ-SOM - is one of the best D.O. schools out there.

scouring these forums over the years has led me to personally believe that umdnj-som is the better choice for many, many reasons. however, western is in cali. it really is a tough choice. if i were in the OP's shoes, i would personally go with umdnj-som. it's a part of the umdnj network, it's close to nyc and philly, great rotations and affiliations, great match list, in-state tuition if you make a few changes, small class size, and so on. do a search for validation of my claims. western has many perks also. choosing between western and umdnj is a good problem to have.

 

[tkim]

Western U - IS IN CALIFORNIA!

UMDNJ-SOM - is one of the best D.O. schools out there.

scouring these forums over the years has led me to personally believe that umdnj-som is the better choice for many, many reasons. however, western is in cali. it really is a tough choice. if i were in the OP's shoes, i would personally go with umdnj-som. it's a part of the umdnj network, it's close to nyc and philly, great rotations and affiliations, great match list, in-state tuition if you make a few changes, small class size, and so on. do a search for validation of my claims. western has many perks also. choosing between western and umdnj is a good problem to have.

Also consider which coast you want to end up in residency and practice. Regional reputation does have some effect. Costs of flying cross country and moving cross country are significant. All other things being equal, go to the cheapest school you can go to.

 

[Cheshyre]

Western U - IS IN CALIFORNIA!

UMDNJ-SOM - is one of the best D.O. schools out there

...

To be honest, in my decision-making process between UMDNJ and WCOMP, SoCal actually was factored in as a negative. I prefer Stratford over Pomona. Also, I wouldn't choose my medical school on location alone.

As I said before - I think that the tuition difference for OOS is not likely to be very significant in the near future. There's been talk of the whole OOS switching to IS after one year being abolished as well. WCOMP and UMDNJSOM are essentially neck and neck with everything you listed - close to a large metropolitan area, great rotations and affiliations, great match list. Class size is larger at WCOMP, but it's still not that big considering that a significant amount of that class is in the Northwest Track program in Oregon (I think).

For me, region wasn't really an issue. I have no significant other to worry about, and frankly, I have no idea where I want to practice. There are actually a couple people from WCOMP here in Ann Arbor for residency, so it's not like I would locked in SoCal either. It will be absurdly expensive for me to go to either school (looks like I'll be >300K in debt at UMDNJ or WCOMP), but I didn't feel comfortable enough to go with LECOM's beautiful sub-30K tuition.

 

[Cheshyre]

(looks like I'll be >300K in debt at UMDNJ or WCOMP), but I didn't feel comfortable enough to go with LECOM's beautiful sub-30K tuition.

Uh-oh.

I got accepted to UMDNJ today and apparently they're keeping the whole "become in-state after 1 year of school!" deal intact.

I need to make a decision by tomorrow morning.

IT HURTS SO GOOD.

 

[Cheshyre]

Congrats, Cheshyre! If you need to decide by tomorrow because of UMDNJ's deposit, isn't it only $185? That's basically nothing compared to these other schools.

Yeah, but I feel bad holding two deposits, haha. What'd you choose, btw?

 

[Grey Wind]

Uh-oh.

I got accepted to UMDNJ today and apparently they're keeping the whole "become in-state after 1 year of school!" deal intact.

I need to make a decision by tomorrow morning.

IT HURTS SO GOOD.

there is your answer. that will take your end debt down how much now?

 

[Cheshyre]

there is your answer. that will take your end debt down how much now?

Uh.. at least 70 - $80K.

I don't know. There are so many factors to consider that might really be worth that $80K to me.

 

[stephsteph]

how did u get the scholarship?

 

[stephsteph]

I am really leaning towards UMDNJ especially since I got a 12k scholarship from there too. (3k/year).

How did u get the scholarship?

Bump..
im in the same situation--UMDNJ or Western?

 

[stephsteph]

For me, I'd choose western. Here's my personal view on it. My goal is to gain a Cali MD residency someday in something like EM. It seems, after reading through these forums, that away rotations matter a lot. Western is conveniently located near some good Ca programs, so I'd say it would be an ideal choice if you want allo in Ca.

How does an DO get MD residencies? Does this mean u graduate with an MD degree?

 

[jinobi]

How does an DO get MD residencies? Does this mean u graduate with an MD degree?

This reminds me of the thread where a DO could turn into MD by taking USMLEs 🙄

If you attend a DO school, you get a DO degree (not MD). There are two categories of post-graduate medical education after you receive your degree: ACGME and AOA. ACGME residency programs are typically associated/affliated with MD schools and will accept both MD and DO students. AOA programs are for DO students only.

Do a search on SDN in pre-osteo and osteo forums for tons of info on this subject. General consensus is that ACGME programs are regarded as higher quality than their AOA counterparts. There are a lot more ACGME residencies in the west coast too, compared to AOA.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

How did u get the scholarship?

Bump..
im in the same situation--UMDNJ or Western?

I'll add a few details here since I posted a ways back on this. It turns out UMDNJ did give me a scholarship ($2.5k, non-renewable) after I matriculated. They gave me no warning whatsoever; one day in September I checked my mail and found an award letter. It apparently came so late because somebody else backed out of the scholarship to do the HPSP military scholarship (it seems you can't do both at once). There didn't seem to be any sort of application process or anything else; they simply choose recipients and send out letters.