Under 3.0

[ConfusedTear]

What should a person do who has under a 3.0 and only wants to do an MD program?

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[paradiselost]

What should a person do who has under a 3.0 and only wants to do an MD program?

It would be a very good idea to raise the GPA as much as possible either with remaining undergrad classes or a post-bacc program. And/or get a master's degree with as close to a 4.0 GPA as possible. Research and publish. Community service/volunteer work in a medical setting. Rock the MCATS. Apply EVERYWHERE. Impress the heck out of your interviewers. (Basically, the same thing anyone would do who wants to get into med school - just amplified to the nth degree).

It can be done. Painfully.

But it can be done.

 

[TypeA]

What should a person do who has under a 3.0 and only wants to do an MD program?

Why only MD?

 

[ForbiddenComma]

He figured that the Super MD degree was out.

OP: Take some postbacc science classes, show an upward trend in your grades, and get whatever E/Cs (clinical or research) you can manage. If you get a high MCAT, it can be done. Also consider DO schools.

 

[ShyRem]

how about the caribbean? they're an MD program, and I know they take under 3.0, even without a killer MCAT.

 

[PathOne]

Master's program probably wouldn't be that helpful, as graduate GPA's are notoriously bloated. As you know it'll be a seriously uphill battle, which will take a lot of both time and money. However, if you really want it, do a full postbacc., follow the advice of other posters, and apply very broadly, mainly to DO schools. Carib. is also an option, but it's also an uphill battle, although for different reasons. It can limit your residency and licensing options, and remember that dropout rates are atrocious compared to US schools.

 

[ConfusedTear]

Just personal preference of wanting to do enter a MD school, and schools that are in the areas of where I could financially be due to relatives living there would be schools that I would apply to. So doing a post bac program would be best?

 

[berkeleyboy]

Just personal preference of wanting to do enter a MD school, and schools that are in the areas of where I could financially be due to relatives living there would be schools that I would apply to. So doing a post bac program would be best?

I wouldn't bother with a post bac. I feel like its a waste of time to repeat classes that you've already taken. Why don't you try the special masters program at georgetown or Chicago med? They take the same classes as the first year meds and you get a masters degree after a year. A lot of the ppl who finish the program who show they can get As in medical school classes and do better than the kids already matriculated will get an acceptance to either that school or another MD school. They usually require pretty decent mcats to get into the program.

I've seen it done the traditional way as well but it is extremely tough....and the caribbean is also an option...look into SGU, Ross, AUC, or SABA. They're the most reputable.

 

[PathOne]

I wouldn't bother with a post bac. I feel like its a waste of time to repeat classes that you've already taken. Why don't you try the special masters program at georgetown or Chicago med? They take the same classes as the first year meds and you get a masters degree after a year. A lot of the ppl who finish the program who show they can get As in medical school classes and do better than the kids already matriculated will get an acceptance to either that school or another MD school. They usually require pretty decent mcats to get into the program.

I've seen it done the traditional way as well but it is extremely tough....and the caribbean is also an option...look into SGU, Ross, AUC, or SABA. They're the most reputable.

Trouble is that while a post bacc can compensate for low undergrad GPA, a Master's usually can't. That being said, I'm not really familiar with the Georgetown/Chicago programs.

Also, the OP can't realistically limit applications to specific areas. Even people with stellar GPA's and MCAT scores can't do that. You really, seriously, need to consider how badly you want to practise medicine, because it's invariably going to be a very long journey.

 

[RxnMan]

What should a person do who has under a 3.0 and only wants to do an MD program?

You can do what I did (click the link in my signature). Even then it was a huge uphill battle. From the perspective of one who has a masters, it probably would have been better to do a post-bacc. The MS grades aren't figured into the <3.0 number, so it doesn't help you remediate it. Yes, you may take some classes repeatedly. But then you'll be getting better grades on them, right?

 

[RxnMan]

how about the caribbean? they're an MD program, and I know they take under 3.0, even without a killer MCAT.

This is an option, but it can limit your career options down the road. OP, check out some of the resident boards if you want to see for yourself.

 

[kanterbrau]

Move forward, not backward. A post-bacc is worthless because you're retaking the same classes you've already taken. Good Christ, of course you'll improve your grades if you go back and retake o-chem or biology, because you've already fricken taken them! Med schools know this and so should all the people telling you to retake classes.

The solution was mentioned above. You go to a master's program that lets you take classes in the med school (Georgetown, NJMS, BU, etc.). You rock your medical classes then you go talk to the admissions directors far in advance of applying. You can shrug off your undergraduate grades because you've done well in the med classes and have proven that your undergrad grades are irrelevant and outdated.

I did this and got in with a 3.0 (2.9 BCPM!).

Oh, and you need to kill the MCAT.

 

[RxnMan]

...The solution was mentioned above. You go to a master's program that lets you take classes in the med school (Georgetown, NJMS, BU, etc.)...

You and I are saying the same thing - when I wrote about taking clases over, I meant taking them over again as a MS1. I was warning against any old graduate degree (which is different than a SMP) because they won't help the GPA.

 

[Instatewaiter]

I feel like it really depends how far away from 3.0 you are as to what you should do. If you are in the low 2's (2.3-2.7) then an SMP will not help. You probably should do some Ugrad work to improve that GPA.

I have heard conflicting things about GPAs between 2.8-3.0. Some say do a post-bac some say do an SMP. I think it also depends what state you are in. California schools screen out applicants w/ below a 3.0 whereas most other states wont.

Personally I think just based on the math, an SMP makes more sense (plus that's what I did). Let's say a person has a 2.8 GPA and graduated w/ 130 credits. To raise the GPA to a 3.2 (marginally competitive) that person needs to take 65 credits and get a 4.0 in all of those classes. That's a little over 2 years of classes!

I feel the SMP gives you a fresh start provided you do exceptionally. Now if you mess it up it will really put the nails in the coffin and you probably will never get into MD school.

 

[silas2642]

I feel like it really depends how far away from 3.0 you are as to what you should do. If you are in the low 2's (2.3-2.7) then an SMP will not help. You probably should do some Ugrad work to improve that GPA.

I have heard conflicting things about GPAs between 2.8-3.0. Some say do a post-bac some say do an SMP. I think it also depends what state you are in. California schools screen out applicants w/ below a 3.0 whereas most other states wont.

Personally I think just based on the math, an SMP makes more sense (plus that's what I did). Let's say a person has a 2.8 GPA and graduated w/ 130 credits. To raise the GPA to a 3.2 (marginally competitive) that person needs to take 65 credits and get a 4.0 in all of those classes. That's a little over 2 years of classes!

I feel the SMP gives you a fresh start provided you do exceptionally. Now if you mess it up it will really put the nails in the coffin and you probably will never get into MD school.

I agree with this. An SMP is good if you do exceptionally well in it, but with your gpa I would step back and take an honest look at why you didn't do so hot in undergraduate. If you were not grasping basic concepts and did not learn an efficient method of studying, then blowing an SMP program pretty much assures that you will be standing empty handed at the end of the application cycle-- it "proves" to admissions committees that you can't handle the med school curriculum.

I would suggest that you seriously reconsider your options; your gpa is really low and I don't think that you're in a position to be picky as to what type of medical schools you attend-- at this point you'd be kind of lucky to get into any school. Also, if you're interested in practicing in a certain location, keep in mind that some Caribbean med schools (which, short of an amazing mcat and some serious post-bac work), which right now is the most realistic chance you have of gaining acceptance into an MD program, are limited to where their graduates can practice. If you consider DO, remember that you can practice anywhere in the country.

The question is: "do you want to be a doctor?" If the answer is yes, then you need to take into consideration all your possibilities, and not be picky, since you're not in a position to be particular about which med school is convenient for you to attend.

 

[Tired]

What should a person do who has under a 3.0 and only wants to do an MD program?

Re-evaluate their career options.

 

[ConfusedTear]

After all completed classes my gpa will be close to a 3.0 like maybe even making a 3.0 or just below..I didnt do as bad as I thought this semester..so with that being said i still have quite a few classes to take since I transferred schools...the only problem is I got 2 really bad grades, and a ton of C's in like electives and gen bio and chem...So now I have a 2.6 from my previous school and now a 3.0 at my current but I have about 60 hours completed at my prior university and about 60 or so to complete now so roughly right now after amcas i will probably be around a 2.7 or so because I did have a retake at my previous university..

 

[abyssinianson]

apply to a wide variety of MD programs and see how things go. just make sure that the other parts of your application -MCAT, ECs, work or research experience, and LORs-are solid. there will be an uphill battle in front of you because of your GPA but it doesn't mean that it is an impossibility to gain admission. the number of success stories I've seen or heard is proof that the GPA is not the only thing adcoms look for in an application, still, it is always good to prepare and work on what you do have going for you to present a good case that you have the motivation to tackle (and conquer) a tough medical school curriculum. good luck!

 

[twohearted]

How long of an upward trend is needed? I did really bad my first two years - around a 1.5 and a 2.5 respectively. I transfered after that and recieved a 3.5 junior and 3.94 senior year. My senior year I decided to persue medicine so I transfered from my art school to a university so I could do biology and have the resources I need. This first semester I got a 3.97. My overall gpa calculated AMCAS style is 3.2. I plan on applying 3 semesters from now when my prereqs are finished. If I continue at this pace I think my overall will be 3.3-3.4 with around a 3.9 BCPM. That will be four years of solid grades, yet a low overall gpa. Is that enough of an upward trend or am I in danger of getting screened? Should I look into doing an SMP or do you think med schools will see that I can hack it acedemically?

Good luck OP. Though I'm not in the <3.0 boat, I still feel your concerns.

 

[PathOne]

How long of an upward trend is needed? I did really bad my first two years - around a 1.5 and a 2.5 respectively. I transfered after that and recieved a 3.5 junior and 3.94 senior year. My senior year I decided to persue medicine so I transfered from my art school to a university so I could do biology and have the resources I need. This first semester I got a 3.97. My overall gpa calculated AMCAS style is 3.2. I plan on applying 3 semesters from now when my prereqs are finished. If I continue at this pace I think my overall will be 3.3-3.4 with around a 3.9 BCPM. That will be four years of solid grades, yet a low overall gpa. Is that enough of an upward trend or am I in danger of getting screened? Should I look into doing an SMP or do you think med schools will see that I can hack it acedemically?

Good luck OP. Though I'm not in the <3.0 boat, I still feel your concerns.

If I was adcom, this is how I would look at it:
Solid progression and high BCPM would be possitive, but it seems that you went to three different schools? That would cause concern, up front. IF you have a really competitive MCAT score, and IF you otherwise seem to be a compelling candidate, then you'd have a shot. But if you were on a par with an applicant that sailed right through college, that would be a more competitive applicant.

Thing is, that while progress is noted, so is uneven performance. For somebody who "messed up" early, or notes special circumstances like illness in the family or other personal issues, that will put that person at a disadvantage, compared with the large number of applicants that don't have those issues. It wouldn't necessarily bar somebody, but it would raise red flags. Remember, that as adcom (which I'm not, btw) I would be concerned about an applicant's ability to a) complete med school, b) complete residency, c) become a good physician. And due to the general low number of student slots at medical schools, and very high number of applicants, I would feel obligated to select the persons who are MOST LIKELY to achieve success on all three parameters. That CAN be the person who "messed up" but is showing real and sustained dedication, but it is MORE LIKELY to be somebody that just did everything right, from preschool on.

However, do always remember that NOBODY is selected on numbers alone. I personally know of an applicant with a perfect MCAT score of 45 and awsome resume that was turned down at his favorite place (turned out that they thought he lacked clinical experience and generally bombed his' interviews).

 

[spreebee]

No Fear! After being rejected at 20 U.S. MD schools I said screw em... Got accepted to both St. George and the AUC with a 3.2. Go to the AUC or St. George and study hard. I know someone from the AUC that is now a neurologist so don't believe all the crap that you can't get a good residency, etc, blah blah blah. At first, so what if you end up in downtown Detroit saving peoples lives. Start there and work your way up. You may be a FMG but after your holding your license it doesn't matter what people say. Thankyou AAMC schools for accepting a few students and the U.S. having to ship in thousands of foreign doctors to meet the demand. For example, IU has prolly 100,000 students statewide but yet only except like 200 people into the program. That's why you have to wait 40 minutes when your trying to get your finger attached.

 

[Ilovewaiting]

I just got an MD acceptance with an undergrad GPA under 3.0. After college I got a masters in Microbiology from a prestigious school-got a 3.6, retook the MCAT twice, got my score up to a 32, worked for two years in a different but relevant and interesting field, published two papers, worked very closely with physicians and researchers, volunteered like crazy, kept in touch will interviewers from previous cycles, learned how to sell myself on applications and interviews by playing up my self -improvement since college, and worked hard to make great connections resulting in excellent new letters of recommendation.

In the 4 years since my original application I worked my butt off to improve my application. I figure it makes sense since I slacked off for 4 years in college!

It may seem discouraging to see that it took me so long, but I really had a great time and enjoyed life during these years. I think taking a few years off before med school is something a lot of people should do regardless of undergrad stats. I was able to learn a lot about my personal motivations, life in the "real world" outside of school, and have a great time in a cool city.

Best of luck! I hope my story helps.

 

[cooldreams]

just thought i might chime in....

there are schools beyond the gulf stream waters that produce usa licensed and productive MD medical practitioners...

 

[flymusician]

What should a person do who has under a 3.0 and only wants to do an MD program?

I'd choose a Master's program over a postbac program just from what some schools have said to me in the past.

As for MD only, well there is one post ahead of me of a person with a 32 MCAT score. Thats what you would have to get or higher for a lot of the MD schools to make them not even think about your undergraduate GPA. Other than that, none of the other ideas (like going overseas) will fit into your plan of finances. Bottom line is that we will all be in debt somehow. Its a tough pill to swallow.

BTW, you should read into the D.O. programs a little more. I had the same mentality as you 6 years ago in undergrad, but my eyes were opened drastically. But, its not for me to decide or push that degree on you.

 

[Gentle_Touch]

I just got an MD acceptance with an undergrad GPA under 3.0. After college I got a masters in Microbiology from a prestigious school-got a 3.6, retook the MCAT twice, got my score up to a 32, worked for two years in a different but relevant and interesting field, published two papers, worked very closely with physicians and researchers, volunteered like crazy, kept in touch will interviewers from previous cycles, learned how to sell myself on applications and interviews by playing up my self -improvement since college, and worked hard to make great connections resulting in excellent new letters of recommendation.

In the 4 years since my original application I worked my butt off to improve my application. I figure it makes sense since I slacked off for 4 years in college!

It may seem discouraging to see that it took me so long, but I really had a great time and enjoyed life during these years. I think taking a few years off before med school is something a lot of people should do regardless of undergrad stats. I was able to learn a lot about my personal motivations, life in the "real world" outside of school, and have a great time in a cool city.

Best of luck! I hope my story helps.

You got one of the best reapp story, what school accepted you, if you dont mind.

 

[madscientist50]

I am on my first app cycle, but to DO only, however I am finishing my MS in Biochem and each admin office has told me as my undergrad GPA is 2.979, that my grad gpa is okay because its a research based program at a tough school. MPH and soft science (psych, sociolgy, and poly sci) grad gpas are not taken very seriously from what I have heard, albiet any MS or PhD is hard to achieve. I have a 3.96 with research hours and a 3.68 without them added in for Grad school, and most schools look at the composite GPA at first and separate after 2ndry app, as to what I have heard.

 

[63768]

since you're still in undergrad, take more undergrad classes. retake some of those you messed up in and show that you have mastered the subjects. it's important to stay in undergrad even if it means doing a 5th or 6th year because you need to raise that undergrad GPA. as has been said, going into a postbac or grad program will result in a separate GPA, which still shows your undergrad GPA.