Under-represented minority question

[sha15]

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If the goal of medical schools for URM's is to fully represent them and the process for doing so is effective and efficient, will there or should there not be a point in time when they are no longer under-represented and the whole system will be changed?

 

[theseeker4]

If the goal of medical schools for URM's is to fully represent them and the process for doing so is effective and efficient, will there or should there not be a point in time when they are no longer under-represented and the whole system will be changed?

Yep. When we reach that point, we will let you know...🙄.. (no, I am definitely not a URM)

 

[HumbleMD]

If the goal of medical schools for URM's is to fully represent them and the process for doing so is effective and efficient, will there or should there not be a point in time when they are no longer under-represented and the whole system will be changed?

That's the goal. But we're far from arriving there, so don't hold your breath.

 

[mitchlucker]

Yep. When we reach that point, we will let you know...🙄.. (no, I am definitely not a URM)

👍

I wouldn't expect it in our lifetime...

 

[Morsetlis]

It's like uncompensated respiratory acidosis from pulmonary tuberculosis (Birshstein R.M. and Tsigelnik A.J., 1928).

 

[LizzyM]

Recently, I read portions of The Good Doctors The Medical Committee for Human Rights and the Struggle for Social Justice in Health Care by John Dittmer. What I read surprised me.

As recently as the early 1960s, blacks were not allowed to study medicine in Mississippi. They were encouraged to apply OOS and some attended Meharry and Howard. When they returned to Mississippi, they could not joint the State Medical Association which meant they could not be members of the American Medical Association (which required that one be admitted to the state association). They could not admit patients to the hosptial and had to hand over the care of the patient to a white physican if hospitalization was necessary.

Some hospitals did not admit black patients and others did but only into segregated wards.

It may take generations to overcome the effects that Jim Crow had on the professional development of African Americans. I also look at the waste of human capital that we are suffering due to substandard schools, astronomically high drop out rates and the incarceration of a substantial proportion of black men in America.

 

[theseeker4]

Recently, I read portions of The Good Doctors The Medical Committee for Human Rights and the Struggle for Social Justice in Health Care by John Dittmer. What I read surprised me.

As recently as the early 1960s, blacks were not allowed to study medicine in Mississippi. They were encouraged to apply OOS and some attended Meharry and Howard. When they returned to Mississippi, they could not joint the State Medical Association which meant they could not be members of the American Medical Association (which required that one be admitted to the state association). They could not admit patients to the hosptial and had to hand over the care of the patient to a white physican if hospitalization was necessary.

Some hospitals did not admit black patients and others did but only into segregated wards.

It may take generations to overcome the effects that Jim Crow had on the professional development of African Americans. I also look at the waste of human capital that we are suffering due to substandard schools, astronomically high drop out rates and the incarceration of a substantial proportion of black men in America.

It may take generations. However, look at the 1960's and look at where we are today. We really have come a very long way, no matter how you look at it.

 

[kpcrew]

That's the goal. But we're far from arriving there, so don't hold your breath.

this is unrelated to the thread but your mdapps profile is ridiculous

 

[Espadaleader]

Recently, I read portions of The Good Doctors The Medical Committee for Human Rights and the Struggle for Social Justice in Health Care by John Dittmer. What I read surprised me.

As recently as the early 1960s, blacks were not allowed to study medicine in Mississippi. They were encouraged to apply OOS and some attended Meharry and Howard. When they returned to Mississippi, they could not joint the State Medical Association which meant they could not be members of the American Medical Association (which required that one be admitted to the state association). They could not admit patients to the hosptial and had to hand over the care of the patient to a white physican if hospitalization was necessary.

Some hospitals did not admit black patients and others did but only into segregated wards.

It may take generations to overcome the effects that Jim Crow had on the professional development of African Americans. I also look at the waste of human capital that we are suffering due to substandard schools, astronomically high drop out rates and the incarceration of a substantial proportion of black men in America.

Whoa. I love you.

 

[Mattabet]

Sandra Day O'Connor predicted this would indeed be the case - that the problem would get solved and schools could stop worrying about it in her opinion in Grutter v. Bollinger.

She also listed some arbitrary deadline for when that would happen, it think it was like 30 years from the decision. It's nice when problems get solved, though I'm not so sure of her countdown.

 

[sha15]

Recently, I read portions of The Good Doctors The Medical Committee for Human Rights and the Struggle for Social Justice in Health Care by John Dittmer. What I read surprised me.

As recently as the early 1960s, blacks were not allowed to study medicine in Mississippi. They were encouraged to apply OOS and some attended Meharry and Howard. When they returned to Mississippi, they could not joint the State Medical Association which meant they could not be members of the American Medical Association (which required that one be admitted to the state association). They could not admit patients to the hosptial and had to hand over the care of the patient to a white physican if hospitalization was necessary.

Some hospitals did not admit black patients and others did but only into segregated wards.

It may take generations to overcome the effects that Jim Crow had on the professional development of African Americans. I also look at the waste of human capital that we are suffering due to substandard schools, astronomically high drop out rates and the incarceration of a substantial proportion of black men in America.

Interesting cause that's where I grew up. I'm sure it looks terrible to everyone outside the state, especially when stuff like this happens:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...n-deryl-dedmon-hate-crime-video_n_922357.html

But I don't think it will ever change with the way they are doing it. Its fixing the problem at the very end of the educational prep process (admissions to med school), which only keeps it at the status quo...and if the URM admissions policy stopped, so would the amount of representation. I guess they should put a lot more effort into student when they begin undergraduate, but I guess its easier said than done.

 

[doctorshateher]

If the goal of medical schools for URM's is to fully represent them and the process for doing so is effective and efficient, will there or should there not be a point in time when they are no longer under-represented and the whole system will be changed?

I think when that day comes the question will be more complicated than that though. I had to write an essay on this in a medical ethics class and here's my take on it.

I think of it like blood pressure control. If blood pressure is stabilized at a good level by blood pressure medication, does that mean it's now time to stop taking medication because you have a health blood pressure? A lot of patients would like to think so. But, no. It's the medication that got you there in the first place.

If URM advantage, or whatever it is you want to call it, is removed when URMs are no longer under represented, they could easily become under represented again in a few application cycle. That is, unless there is a major social change that prevents this


Also, this is an incredibly civil thread about URMs. I'm impressed 👍 🙂

 

[doctorshateher]

And to further my analogy...

However, if the change in blood pressure is brought on by more patient-drive changes such as diet and exercise (or improved K-12 schools, improved college access, etc for URMs) then dropping the BP medication can be considered.

 

[bookfreak89]

I think when that day comes the question will be more complicated than that though. I had to write an essay on this in a medical ethics class and here's my take on it.

I think of it like blood pressure control. If blood pressure is stabilized at a good level by blood pressure medication, does that mean it's now time to stop taking medication because you have a health blood pressure? A lot of patients would like to think so. But, no. It's the medication that got you there in the first place.

If URM advantage, or whatever it is you want to call it, is removed when URMs are no longer under represented, they could easily become under represented again in a few application cycle. That is, unless there is a major social change that prevents this


Also, this is an incredibly civil thread about URMs. I'm impressed 👍 🙂

We're only 14 posts in.

 

[PinkpanthaMD]

Recently, I read portions of The Good Doctors The Medical Committee for Human Rights and the Struggle for Social Justice in Health Care by John Dittmer. What I read surprised me.

As recently as the early 1960s, blacks were not allowed to study medicine in Mississippi. They were encouraged to apply OOS and some attended Meharry and Howard. When they returned to Mississippi, they could not joint the State Medical Association which meant they could not be members of the American Medical Association (which required that one be admitted to the state association). They could not admit patients to the hosptial and had to hand over the care of the patient to a white physican if hospitalization was necessary.

Some hospitals did not admit black patients and others did but only into segregated wards.

It may take generations to overcome the effects that Jim Crow had on the professional development of African Americans. I also look at the waste of human capital that we are suffering due to substandard schools, astronomically high drop out rates and the incarceration of a substantial proportion of black men in America.

Couldn't have summed it better. I worked for our state medical school while in undergrad and it really surprised me that the number of minority medical students made up only 1% of the class. The school boasted its efforts to recruiting students from these groups but that's where the puck stopped. It was window dressing.

About two years ago they were cited by the state for several reasons and that was one of them. What I don't understand is they hired old white guys to recruit minority students and they were surprised when it wasn't accomplished (not implying that they were racists or bad people). LOL How can these white guys understand what these minority students have to overcome to get there? This is not about race. There are poor white students as well. Unfortunately, when you have a group of people on the admissions committee who don't come from that similar background, it is difficult for them to understand the struggles and obstacles these students face everyday.

The school is located in a minority neighborhood, but the staff at the associated hospital is predominantly white. This obviously raises a lot of issues in terms of standard of care and just normal human interaction. These are some of the factors that the hospital was evaluated on and was given a poor grade.

As far as reaching equality, I feel that it may not happen in our life time. Black people are still discriminated against everyday. They have the highest unemployment rate among all groups. I have friends who are black with the same undergraduate experience but can't find a job. One of my friends applied for a research assistant job that required a BS. He was told that he was overqualified. 😕On the other hand, I have family members who should be with Madoff, but have great jobs running large companies with very little education. Why? They are white.

It is sad but true. However, change is our responsibility. We are the new generation of physicians, scientists and administrators.


[FONT=georgia, bookman old style, palatino linotype, book antiqua, palatino, trebuchet ms, helvetica, garamond, sans-serif, arial, verdana, avante garde, century gothic, comic sans ms, times, times new roman, serif]Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope... and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring those ripples build a current that can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance. ~Robert F. Kennedy.

 

[Bowchickawowwow]

Not to hijack your post or anything, but quick question, I'm from the Middle East and I'm a girl, am I a part of a URM? Well...to generalize, I'm from a South Asian country, born...and sort of raised lol

 

[LizzyM]

Not to hijack your post or anything, but quick question, I'm from the Middle East and I'm a girl, am I a part of a URM? Well...to generalize, I'm from a South Asian country, born...and sort of raised lol

There aren't any shortages of Middle Eastern and South Asian physicians in the US in relation to the proportion of Middle Eastern and South Asians in the US population so "no".

 

[Morsetlis]

I'm going to remember that sentence a few decades from now and remember the institutional racism within.

 

[PantherPride]

One day won't randomly appear when racial representation in the medical field mirrors that of our country and colleges will come up with a different plan. Affirmative Action will slowly fade out as our schools slowly diversify more and more.

 

[V5RED]

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