uniformed services university escape plan?

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I've never heard of any USUHS or Academy grads doing that.
 
I've never heard of anyone going AWOL after graduating, but if you do that don't ever plan on coming back.

I call troll btw...
 
lipitur said:
Has anyone completed USUHS and then shortly thereafter fled the United States to practice medicine in another country ?
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lmao
 
lipitur said:
Has anyone completed USUHS and then shortly thereafter fled the United States to practice medicine in another country ?
Click to expand...
I try to take one thing at a time. I'll cross that bridge (or ocean, rather) when I get to it. I'm just worried about getting in. 🙂
 
Also, don't plan on going anywhere with friendly extradition laws haha.
 
isn't that deserting? Does this count as being a time of war? I think the US miltary takes that pretty seriously. You'd have to be pretty desperate to do that. There have to be easier ways to get out, ie getting kicked out of the military.
 
lipitur said:
Has anyone completed USUHS and then shortly thereafter fled the United States to practice medicine in another country ?
Click to expand...

You know the guy in your avatar was fired, right?
 
jbar said:
isn't that deserting? Does this count as being a time of war? I think the US miltary takes that pretty seriously. You'd have to be pretty desperate to do that. There have to be easier ways to get out, ie getting kicked out of the military.
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This is a time of war and it would be deserting, which is still punishable by firing squad, no questions asked. They take it very seriously, when I was enlisting this was the number one thing they talked about.... bad idea to try and screw with the military. Although if you went in to the Army as a doctor you would be an officer, and unless you signed a contract with specific time requirements, you can opt out when ever... I'm not sure about other branches though thats just the Army.
 
hahaha true I guess some people like the military way of life, I would of been on that track, but I was cut short with a shoulder injury during Airborne School, not much use for me then and i wound up back here, hangin out blogging on SDN...😀
 
I'd much rather scam a loan agency than the military.

But that's just me...
 
there were a group of guys in my infantry class that decided they wanted out, they thought they could just sneak out quick one night on a training op....to bad they were captured by a special forces team training in the area too, those guys set them straight to say the least
 
lipitur said:
Has anyone completed USUHS and then shortly thereafter fled the United States to practice medicine in another country ?
Click to expand...

A much easier plan consists of just saying three words:

I am gay
 
Tired said:
What's the advantage of that? If you want a free medical education, why not just take out the loans then default on them later? The consequences are far lighter.
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I don't think you can discharge school loans in bankruptcy. It's the worst kind of loan for that. Anyways, your point still stands, it's a very bad idea. Not only would he be committing a crime; he would be taking the place of someone who wants to be there.
 
This happens all the time. It's a totally safe, non-punishable, and totally do-able act.
 
Well, I'm not sure what would happen exactly, but it would probably involve a good deal of time in the brig (worse than prison) and THEN you'd be forced to fulfill your commitment. If you make promises to the military, they pretty much own you. Your rights go out the door, and you can better bet that something like that will come back and get you.

I think you can try to get out of your commitment, but then you owe them something like 3x the original loan amount. NOT a good idea.
 
grobbins91 said:
This is a time of war and it would be deserting, which is still punishable by firing squad, no questions asked. They take it very seriously, when I was enlisting this was the number one thing they talked about.... bad idea to try and screw with the military. Although if you went in to the Army as a doctor you would be an officer, and unless you signed a contract with specific time requirements, you can opt out when ever... I'm not sure about other branches though thats just the Army.
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Holy crap. Officer's in the Army can leave anytime they want?

Do you just kinda say whatever pops into your head, or do you ever take the time to do some fact checking?
 
Cegar said:
Holy crap. Officer's in the Army can leave anytime they want?

Do you just kinda say whatever pops into your head, or do you ever take the time to do some fact checking?
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I'm guessing he is confusing a civilian contractor and an officer? For instance.... theres a job open for a psychiatrist at a army base in Wichita, KS, they're paying about $300K. That position is for a civilian doctor who works at a military base. I'm pretty sure anytime someone joins the military (officer or enlisted) it involves a contracted amount of time. 4-8 years generally.... Tired would be able to tell us more. My hubby is an enlisted Marine and I looked at a military scholarship, but I don't really remember the details.
 
I don't know what he's thinking of, but he's absolutely crazy.
 
obviously theres more details to it, I was being general. after OCS you have to make a service agreement of atleast 4 years, after that depending on your army specialty and the need of the army you can negotiate contracts of no less than 6 months, ushually doctors are involved in these types of contracts. Different than say an infantry officer who is obviously of higher needed by the Army and there for required to give a longer service contract. It's all about how you work it, they want you and they are willing to give to an a certain degree to get you.
 
lipitur said:
Has anyone completed USUHS and then shortly thereafter fled the United States to practice medicine in another country ?
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1) Why would you want to go to USUHS, with the intention of practicing medicine in another country?

2) Why do you want to practice medicine in another country, anyway? Why not just go to medical school in the country that you plan on practicing in?

EM84 said:
A much easier plan consists of just saying three words:

I am gay
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This is a common suggestion. There are threads on SDN, if you search, where this suggestion has been made. (Usually the question is posed by people who are thinking about signing up for HPSP only for the money, but don't want to do the service payback.)

The consensus was that you will be dishonorably discharged, which looks a little skeevy on a CV. Furthermore, my understanding is that the military will forgive your loans ONLY if you are injured or ill to the point where you can't practice anymore. The military will NOT forgive your loans if you're dishonorably discharged - you'll have to pay them back.

So, no, a really, really dumb idea. Don't try this.

Chuckwalla said:
You know the guy in your avatar was fired, right?
Click to expand...

Whee!! 😀 (Well, he wasn't really "fired," but Pfizer pulled his ads. Good enough.)

I had a problem with Jarvik essentially passing himself off as a cardiologist, when he never had to survive a day of internship.
 
grobbins91 said:
obviously theres more details to it, I was being general. after OCS you have to make a service agreement of atleast 4 years, after that depending on your army specialty and the need of the army you can negotiate contracts of no less than 6 months, ushually doctors are involved in these types of contracts. Different than say an infantry officer who is obviously of higher needed by the Army and there for required to give a longer service contract. It's all about how you work it, they want you and they are willing to give to an a certain degree to get you.
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When you take a military health professions scholarship, you are required to serve in the branch which paid for it for one year every year you were on scholarship. So someone on a military ride all the way through MS would therefore be required to serve 4 years afterwards. You recieve direct commision as a mid-ranking officer initially (in the army medical corps it's captain, and after a year or so major), but regardless you have to serve your full time as a military doc. It is almost impossible to come out ahead with the military/governmnet. Unless you want to be like the OP, who would possibly face a firing squad. (I call troll on the OP, btw)

I'm not too sure on the specifics of USUHS itself, but I believe it is similar. When you enroll you are required to serve at least four years as a medical officer in the military.
 
lipitur said:
Has anyone completed USUHS and then shortly thereafter fled the United States to practice medicine in another country ?
Click to expand...

I do hope you don't think that you're THAT anonymous...

The military won't have much butter to cut through if they're investigating military medical desertion and happen to see the post on this board timing up pretty well... your IP address is always available to the ISP, and the military can easily get a court order for a federal crime like desertion.

So, in other words, if you WERE planning on deserting, you just shot yourself in the foot big time, because now you've just given them an extremely easy way to find you. Nice plan, Ace...
 
I'm sure you'll fit in at your military branch of choice quite well.
 
smq123 said:
The consensus was that you will be dishonorably discharged
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Wait, if you're gay, you'll be dishonorably discharged? Why is being gay so dishonorable that the military have to ruin your career for admitting your sexuality?

I understand if they were discharged, but why dishonorably so?
 
littlealex said:
Wait, if you're gay, you'll be dishonorably discharged? Why is being gay so dishonorable that the military have to ruin your career for admitting your sexuality?

I understand if they were discharged, but why dishonorably so?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I misspoke.

I believe that if they find out that you've engaged in same sex activity, then you get a dishonorable discharge. If you just admit that you're gay, then they will just discharge you.

But, in either case, I don't think that it is enough to get the army to forgive your debt. They'll probably treat you as if you had defaulted on your scholarship. I mean, it's in the agreement that you signed - that you have never engaged in homosexual activity, etc.

There's one sure-fire way to find out for certain if being gay will get you out of your HPSP payback...but it seems like a lot of trouble. Better just to play it safe and not plan that saying "I'm gay" will bail you out.

EDIT: Apparently, ROTC did try to make a student pay back his scholarship. I don't know if they did end up making him, but I don't think that it's a good risk to take. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE0D81130F93AA25752C1A964958260
 
Tin Man said:
So, in other words, if you WERE planning on deserting, you just shot yourself in the foot big time, because now you've just given them an extremely easy way to find you. Nice plan, Ace...
Click to expand...

But you can get out shooting yourself in the foot, right?

That doesn't look suspicious at all.
 
smq123 said:
Sorry, I misspoke.

I believe that if they find out that you've engaged in same sex activity, then you get a dishonorable discharge. If you just admit that you're gay, then they will just discharge you.

But, in either case, I don't think that it is enough to get the army to forgive your debt. They'll probably treat you as if you had defaulted on your scholarship. I mean, it's in the agreement that you signed - that you have never engaged in homosexual activity, etc.

There's one sure-fire way to find out for certain if being gay will get you out of your HPSP payback...but it seems like a lot of trouble. Better just to play it safe and not plan that saying "I'm gay" will bail you out.

EDIT: Apparently, ROTC did try to make a student pay back his scholarship. I don't know if they did end up making him, but I don't think that it's a good risk to take. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE0D81130F93AA25752C1A964958260
Click to expand...

i read a post on the milmed forum about this exact situation. the poster was gay and involved in rotc, then took the HPSP. eventually, his sexual orientation was discovered (i think he was pretty out about it, excuse the pun.). he was discharged and i think they're trying to make him pay it back.
 
To be fair, he SHOULD pay it back. The expectations are really obvious: you serve the military to repay your debt.
 
Most military branches are pretty good about getting their people back. Any civilized country with a standardized medical system will find out very quickly about the desertion when they investigate his medical schooling (and when the OSI is contacting every military agency we're friends with). If he goes to a country with no real healthcare system, then he's not going to be able to get any supplies legally, and therefore be exceedingly limited in what he's capable of doing medically even illegally (not to mention he wouldn't have any $$ to buy anything with anyway). If he decides to go to an enemy country, then good luck being an American military deserter in North Korea...

All in all, it's a much better idea just to stick your term out. In general, doctors aren't on the front-lines anyway. There's exceptions to every rule, but it's the same idea that the doctors here aren't running around to every car crash themselves. EMT=Hospital Corpsman/Army medic/whatever. The doctors have a hospital (or possibly a field hospital), and they practice medicine doing whatever they were trained to do, whether it is emergency medicine, infectious disease, surgery, psychiatry, or whatever. It's really not a whole lot different than the civilian world, minus the malpractice insurance and medical school debt.

It's not only wimpy to run away from the military; it's just plain stupid. They give you a chance to hit the ground running in medical school, and chances are very high that they WILL find you if you try to run. Simple as that.
 
I'm pretty sure the OP had no intentions of going to USUHS and then running away.
 
Cegar said:
I'm pretty sure the OP had no intentions of going to USUHS and then running away.
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Wow! You're right! I didn't see all of the posts that the OP made after we started talking that clarified the situation. Duh! How could I miss that?

You know, this entire board just must be intensely stupid... I mean, for ALL of us to understand one context, and for it to be clarified by you... I mean, wow. Thanks. We just couldn't muddle through one vague post devoid of any explanation or clarification without your divine insight into the situation.

Thanks for all you do!
 
Wow. I think you're worse than I am.


That's pretty bad.
 
Tin Man said:
Wow! You're right! I didn't see all of the posts that the OP made after we started talking that clarified the situation. Duh! How could I miss that?

You know, this entire board just must be intensely stupid... I mean, for ALL of us to understand one context, and for it to be clarified by you... I mean, wow. Thanks. We just couldn't muddle through one vague post devoid of any explanation or clarification without your divine insight into the situation.

Thanks for all you do!
Click to expand...

only child?
 
grobbins91 said:
This is a time of war and it would be deserting, which is still punishable by firing squad, no questions asked. They take it very seriously, when I was enlisting this was the number one thing they talked about.... bad idea to try and screw with the military. Although if you went in to the Army as a doctor you would be an officer, and unless you signed a contract with specific time requirements, you can opt out when ever... I'm not sure about other branches though thats just the Army.
Click to expand...

LMAO.

This is chock full of bad information. More proof that you should never believe anything a recruiter tells you.

The DOD hasn't executed anyone in recent memory. If you desert, you won't be executed.

Accepting a commision as an officer entails an automatic 8 year obligation. 4 of which ( or more if you are a doc) are on active duty.
 
grobbins91 said:
obviously theres more details to it, I was being general. after OCS you have to make a service agreement of atleast 4 years, after that depending on your army specialty and the need of the army you can negotiate contracts of no less than 6 months, ushually doctors are involved in these types of contracts. Different than say an infantry officer who is obviously of higher needed by the Army and there for required to give a longer service contract. It's all about how you work it, they want you and they are willing to give to an a certain degree to get you.
Click to expand...

LMAO.

If you don't know something, you shouldn't act like you do.
 
Old Grunt said:
Accepting a commision as an officer entails an automatic 8 year obligation. 4 of which ( or more if you are a doc) are on active duty.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. Any obligation is based on your contract; it is not "automatic" that every commission is for eight years. I am almost positive (at least for HPSP) that the obligation is exactly one year for every year the military pays for. Now, that's not to say they won't tack on extra years when they can. For instance, the USAF tends to try to match you into USAF residencies, and if you are at a military hospital, then the USAF counts that towards the money they are paying you and adds an additional year of obligation for every year spent on residency (to begin AFTER residency). However, this is covered in your contract, and I believe that the contract is written out as the above.
 
Tin Man said:
Not necessarily. Any obligation is based on your contract; it is not "automatic" that every commission is for eight years. I am almost positive (at least for HPSP) that the obligation is exactly one year for every year the military pays for. Now, that's not to say they won't tack on extra years when they can. For instance, the USAF tends to try to match you into USAF residencies, and if you are at a military hospital, then the USAF counts that towards the money they are paying you and adds an additional year of obligation for every year spent on residency (to begin AFTER residency). However, this is covered in your contract, and I believe that the contract is written out as the above.
Click to expand...

If you say so. If you figure out a way not to have an eight year obligation as a term of your commission, you'll be the first Officer I know who to do so.

At any rate, you obviously know, kind of, sort of.
 
Old Grunt said:
Yep.

Hope that didn't ruin your evening.
Click to expand...

I'm just going to go write a sad poem in red ink and tell my stuffed animals how much better the world could be if EVERYONE was huggable.

I'll be fine in the morning.
 
Tin Man said:
I'm just going to go write a sad poem in red ink and tell my stuffed animals how much better the world could be if EVERYONE was huggable.

I'll be find in the morning.
Click to expand...
:laugh::laugh::laugh:👍
 
Tin Man said:
I'm just going to go write a sad poem in red ink and tell my stuffed animals how much better the world could be if EVERYONE was huggable.

I'll be find in the morning.
Click to expand...

Sorry, based on your posts, I assumed you were in USUHS or HPSP and just figured out you had an eight year obligation.

I guess that wasn't the case.
 
lipitur said:
Has anyone completed USUHS and then shortly thereafter fled the United States to practice medicine in another country ?
Click to expand...
Fleeing isn't necessary. The military provides transportation, accommodations, and employment in the country of its choice. 😉
 
smq123 said:
1
The consensus was that you will be dishonorably discharged, which looks a little skeevy on a CV. Furthermore, my understanding is that the military will forgive your loans ONLY if you are injured or ill to the point where you can't practice anymore. The military will NOT forgive your loans if you're dishonorably discharged - you'll have to pay them back.


I had a problem with Jarvik essentially passing himself off as a cardiologist, when he never had to survive a day of internship.
Click to expand...

So, find an excuse and shoot yourself in the leg or something.

Also, Jarvik doesn't pass himself off as a cardiologist, Pfizer or whoever does. He was the main designer of the Jarvik-7 (I think that is what it was called). It was considered a failure and led to a knee jerk reaction resulting in the slow down and kind of ignoring of artificial heart stuff for a while I think. It was a failure in that, while it did tend to extend life, it looked more like a slow painful death where one had no freedom to do anything but die. Most lived around a month, but one lived 4 or 5 months (I think). I have to preface with the I thinks, because my details might be fuzzy...especially after how many drinks I had.

I know this is a hypothetical situation with the running away, but even entertaining the idea is stupid. Aside from the fact that you'd be miserable at USUHS it is a good way to ruin one's life. There are a lot of cons with military medicine but there are a lot more cons with trying to be smooth. I'm sure job interviews would go smoothly...They may even be able to take away that medical degree. If you are dead set on a cheap medical education then go somewhere like Germany where you pretty much pay for housing, books, and food. Heck, even israel is only 20k a year.
 
MossPoh said:
So, find an excuse and shoot yourself in the leg or something.
Click to expand...

I don't even think that that would help. If they think it was intentional, then they would probably still demand that you pay them back.

I also am not totally sure what good "shooting yourself in the leg" would do you if you're employed as a military physician. Sure, you'd get some time off to recuperate, but a broken leg isn't enough to stop you from performing your clinical duties. (I've seen surgeons operate with broken legs.) Yeah, they wouldn't be able to deploy you to Afghanistan or anything, but there's really no reason why you couldn't take care of patients at a stateside hospital, and serve out your commitment in the US.

MossPoh said:
Also, Jarvik doesn't pass himself off as a cardiologist, Pfizer or whoever does. He was the main designer of the Jarvik-7 (I think that is what it was called). It was considered a failure and led to a knee jerk reaction resulting in the slow down and kind of ignoring of artificial heart stuff for a while I think. It was a failure in that, while it did tend to extend life, it looked more like a slow painful death where one had no freedom to do anything but die. Most lived around a month, but one lived 4 or 5 months (I think).
Click to expand...

No, you're pretty much right. The Jarvik-7 isn't that great of a device, and doesn't get used that much, because there are a lot of problems associated with it.

And, while he may never have come out and said that he was a cardiologist, when you have a "physician" (and I use the term loosely in Jarvik's case) talking about the virtues of a cholesterol drug, what do you think the average person is going to believe? It would be like having a psychotherapist/psychologist promote the latest antidepressant.
 
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