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University of Michigan Class of 2009

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CreativeWriter

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Go Blue! University of Michigan Medical School

I am thrilled for the opportunity, and definitely, I am going!

Lets start the networking


:luck:

:)


:D

Are you going? Did you guys liked the video...I was laughing so hard :p)
 

leechy

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CreativeWriter said:
Go Blue! University of Michigan Medical School

I am thrilled for the opportunity, and definitely, I am going!

Lets start the networking


:luck:

:)


:D

Are you going? Did you guys liked the video...I was laughing so hard :p)

Haha, yeah... that video took me 2 minutes to download! It was a cute gesture though. They are so nice!
 

calstudent

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leechy said:
Haha, yeah... that video took me 2 minutes to download! It was a cute gesture though. They are so nice!


Yes, I have watched the video about 18 times now. I was SOOOOOOO nervous while it downloaded, and I was worried it wouldn't work and I'd have to wait till today to find out. Even worse, because they email didn't say we were accepted, I feared a waitlist or even rejection.
It really was a great gesture though. That's awesome. Congrats to you all. :)
 

Stendek

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calstudent said:
Yes, I have watched the video about 18 times now. I was SOOOOOOO nervous while it downloaded, and I was worried it wouldn't work and I'd have to wait till today to find out. Even worse, because they email didn't say we were accepted, I feared a waitlist or even rejection.
It really was a great gesture though. That's awesome. Congrats to you all. :)

Didn't you see that it said admitted/midnight in the url? ;) Congrats to all.
 

calstudent

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Stendek said:
Didn't you see that it said admitted/midnight in the url? ;) Congrats to all.


yes, i am an idiot. now i realize it! they could have made it more simpler though! come on, what do they expect us to be, intelligent? :oops:
 

CreativeWriter

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When did you guys interview?

Where are you from?

What are you up to?

So many questions, too much to know.

I am throwing a Go Blue Party to Celebrate!
 

calstudent

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The party's gonna be great. I am not sure I'm going to UMich (tons of other places to think about), but I'm from California. Did you guys get a phone call from Mr. Ruiz this morning too?
Geez, Michigan REALLY takes care of their students!
 

CreativeWriter

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calstudent said:
The party's gonna be great. I am not sure I'm going to UMich (tons of other places to think about), but I'm from California. Did you guys get a phone call from Mr. Ruiz this morning too?
Geez, Michigan REALLY takes care of their students!

He called me, and I was like...who's this?

But it's nice -- I have not been treated this well ever, or at least at any medical school~
 

SunnyS81

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Congrats to all of you....its a great place to be.
 

tennis24

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Hi everyone!
I got the video this morning too! I'm thrilled:). When did you guys interview? I was on Sept. 10th.
 

CreativeWriter

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tennis24 said:
Hi everyone!
I got the video this morning too! I'm thrilled:). When did you guys interview? I was on Sept. 10th.


I am ecstatic! I started crying last night because I could not believe it!

I interviewed on Oct 1st! I am from the Midwest, but now living on the East Coast

UMich rocks!
:luck:

Are you still in school, tennis 24?
 

Bones2008

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Congrats guys. I'm glad you all liked it here as much as you did. I'll see those of you that decide to come here next fall.
 

krelian

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Umich sure does go out of its way to please its accepted candidates. Was anyone else surprised to see a blue UMich fleece in the mail?
 
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DianaLynne

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You got a fleece? I want a fleece! I got my video on the 17th of October, yet no fleece! Hmph.
 

krelian

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Odd.. I thought that the fleece was sent out to all of those that have been accepted thus far. I got it a few days ago, so maybe yours is still in the mail. By the way, what video are you referring to? The one that was sent out at midnight on Oct. 15th?
 

calstudent

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hey, i want one too.
and, i REALLY want michigan to beat texas in the rose bowl, so i'd love some UMich regalia to watch the game with.
 

ellia08

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Congrats everyone! Cant wait to see you all next year.


:)
 

EllieElle

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krelian said:
Umich sure does go out of its way to please its accepted candidates. Was anyone else surprised to see a blue UMich fleece in the mail?

Yes! I was so giddy about the fleece- what a fantastic gesture. Sending a nice "holiday" present like that says so much about how UMich treats their students! :love:
 

DianaLynne

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calstudent said:
hey, i want one too.
and, i REALLY want michigan to beat texas in the rose bowl, so i'd love some UMich regalia to watch the game with.

Yeh, my mom went to Texas and she always makes fun of me whenever Texas beats my undergraduate school Colorado. So, hopefully Michigan can take care of the Longhorns!
 

jhugti

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anybody know when merit money and financial aid gets decided at mich? I'm kindof torn right now and money could make the sway to mich over jhu.

:thumbup: on the fleece though- robert is awesome.
 

bridge01

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i was touched that they actually took time to personalize their acceptance letter... but now there's a fleece? beautiful people @ umich. :love:
 

footcramp

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beautiful, nice, or desperate?
3rd in residency directors rankings btw, dont' forget.
not everyone got a fleece, just so you know. just the special ones.
 

ellia08

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:)

Yeah! Being third in the country in really tough :rolleyes: ...[laughing]... especially when you're the best public school in the nation!


As to when financial aid is awarded... I seem to recall that if you get your FAFSA and forms in by mid january you could know in march. (but I can double check if you would like)
 
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footcramp

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the best public school in the nation is uc berkeley. please check your facts before your rampant midwest homerism gets the better of you. if you're talking about best public medical school then it's ucsf. not that michigan is bad, in fact it's pretty good. but it's not the best. even the almighty usnews recognizes this.
 

footcramp

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by the way, i wouldn't get too excited about a fleece until the financial aid package comes in. some are bound to be dissapointed.
 

Stendek

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footcramp said:
by the way, i wouldn't get too excited about a fleece until the financial aid package comes in. some are bound to be dissapointed.

Hey FC, are you a UMich student? Can you elaborate on your "some are bound to be dissapointed" statement? Have you been fleeced by Michigan?

Thanks
 

footcramp

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you'll find out for yourself soon enough. fortunately you're not forced to sign your commitment or anything like that. the school distributes money in an incredibly asinine way. they might boast about this and that but let's just say most of the money is spent on recruitment rather than need. enjoy your fleeces.
 

Stendek

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footcramp said:
you'll find out for yourself soon enough. fortunately you're not forced to sign your commitment or anything like that. the school distributes money in an incredibly asinine way. they might boast about this and that but let's just say most of the money is spent on recruitment rather than need. enjoy your fleeces.


Is there anything else that is not what it seems about UMich? I feel like everyone ONLY tells you great things- so I need to hear some of the not so great things in order to make a more informed decision.
 

ellia08

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footcramp said:
the best public school in the nation is uc berkeley. please check your facts before your rampant midwest homerism gets the better of you. if you're talking about best public medical school then it's ucsf. not that michigan is bad, in fact it's pretty good. but it's not the best. even the almighty usnews recognizes this.


Sorry! no offense meant! :) I assumed based on your earlier post that you knew I was going by residency director rankings (in which, if you want me to be PAINFULLY exact, umich is tied for 3rd in overall ranking and second for actual score magnitude).

I dont really see how this matters though or why undergrad was even brought up. In general once you crack a certain level its really hard to judge who is better. So you could go by usnews ( to get ucsf) or by residency director rankings (to get umich...as you said earlier) but in the end they are both great schools. Clearly from my avatar you can see my bias! :D

Anyway, I think my point above is clear in context. I really dont think that michigan (or ucsf for that matter) is hurting for good students.
 

ellia08

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Stendek said:
Is there anything else that is not what it seems about UMich? I feel like everyone ONLY tells you great things- so I need to hear some of the not so great things in order to make a more informed decision.


All the good things I've read on this site are fairly accurate. As for not so great.... mmm... well, its cold here. Thats really the only complaint I hear frequently. And as far as that goes, you acclimate after a while (and I like the snow.) Also, Ann Arbor is a great town but isnt New York --if thats what you want. With that aside, life here is pretty good.
 

footcramp

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there are a lot of things that aren't as they seem. look, no school is going to tell you the whole truth. michigan is no exception. you should talk to some of my classmates. they've got some incredible stories.

ellia08, are you a first year maybe? i remember life being pretty good until around the end of november and then it just went downhill fast. this winter's been very mild - the first snow was late october last year. i'd hold off judgment until mid april to say whether life here is good or not.

for the record, michigan is a good school. it's a very good school. but it's got issues. for the most part things run smoothly. but there are times when you think, do these people know what they're doing? sometimes you wonder, no, they probably don't.

when you have interviews, you probably think any ol' student can come in chat with you guys. that's actually not true. they won't let people like me anywhere near you guys. put two and two together. in fact you need to get approval to have lunch. you have to apply!

think about that.
 

ellia08

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:)nope. I am from the frigid hinterlands of northern michigan ...which might skew my view of the cold somewhat. Basically any winter that doesnt include 25 feet of snow and snot-freezing cold is what I would call mild. Growing up I was used to snow from thanksgiving to april.

The weather is different here in the south... less sun, less snow (which I do miss), and it is a little colder without lake effect... but bearable. I miss the water though. Rivers just arent the same as being on the great lakes.
 

lavertus

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footcramp said:
for the record, michigan is a good school. it's a very good school. but it's got issues. for the most part things run smoothly. but there are times when you think, do these people know what they're doing? sometimes you wonder, no, they probably don't.

when you have interviews, you probably think any ol' student can come in chat with you guys. that's actually not true. they won't let people like me anywhere near you guys. put two and two together. in fact you need to get approval to have lunch. you have to apply!

think about that.

FC, thanks for your honest opinions. Can you give any details on the negatives? Don't want to discourage anyone from going. Just would like to have a more accurate view of the school without any rosey glasses on.
 
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calstudent

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lavertus said:
FC, thanks for your honest opinions. Can you give any details on the negatives? Don't want to discourage anyone from going. Just would like to have a more accurate view of the school without any rosey glasses on.

yes, i'd love to hear more of the same: why you and/or other classmates might not feel as happy at UMich as when you thought you were going to start attending (which could be some people on this thread in a few months), or what to sort of beware of.
i hate to sound all negative, but getting the 'whole' picture would be great.
 

npp71681

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Hi!

Those who are accpeted or currently attending can you all tell me things about U-Mich? I mean about the Campus, Ann Arbor, etc...
 

leechy

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I would love to hear more from footcramp as well, but in the meantime, if you look under the interview feedback, there are two entries that were actually made by current students in which they air their grievances extensively. They're from 6/15/04. I'm not sure how accurate they are, since they might be the only people unhappy with the school, but it's still good reading.
 

leechy

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leechy said:
I would love to hear more from footcramp as well, but in the meantime, if you look under the interview feedback, there are two entries that were actually made by current students in which they air their grievances extensively. They're from 6/15/04. I'm not sure how accurate they are, since they might be the only people unhappy with the school, but it's still good reading.

Sorry, my error, look under 12/15/2003.
 

Stendek

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Wow. Can any M3 or M4s from Michigan comment on those posts (12/15/03 and 12/17/03)? They basically say that UMich crushes its students during the clinical years.
 

footcramp

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hey guys,
just a few points...
regarding the match, it basically comes down to who you believe. the residency directors from michigan will talk you up quite a bit about how well respected the school is and how much of an advantage you have. hey, maybe that's true. i haven't yet applied for residency so i can't really say from personal experience. but slowly that facade crumbles bit by bit. for instance you talk to fourth years who have stories about some programs not knowing about michigan. then you hear your class counselor say that you need to have a lot of backup plans if you apply to the coast. then you look at the matchlist and everyone's regionally matching, and personally i think that only some, not all, can be explained by student preference to stay in that region. on the other hand, people are quick to tell students how well respected michigan is at places like ucsf. look, michigan is a powerhouse, no doubt about it, but its influence is primarily in the midwest. whether its reach extend as far as the pacific ocean, i don't know but i doubt it. again, it's a matter of who you believe, and frankly, i don't know what to think. so it's something to think about before you think coming from michigan will get you anything you want. now, if you want to go to chicago, or anywhere in ohio, michigan, wisconsin, minnesota, indiana, etc... you can't go wrong with michigan. however if you want to do residency in ny, go to a ny school. if you want to practice in california, go to a california school. it will make it easier. that's just my opinion.

regarding the other bad stuff, i'll just say flat out that the people who run the school are incompetent. our schedules are made known to us two weeks in advance. thus we can't figure out when we have breaks, can't buy plane tickets, basically can't do anything.

we had a two week sequence this year in which there were so many class conflicts, more than half of our class had to email each other so that they could switch classes. mind you, these people had half a year AT LEAST to figure all this out, but no, they sat on their incompetent ass and said, hey, you guys are smart medical students, you figure it out, because i'm too busy drinking coffee and eating donuts, while you guys aren't busy enough as it is.

our grades were unavailable to us for weeks because someone in the office couldn't press a single button that opened up the results. ONE BUTTON. WEEKS.

a lot of the faculty have no idea what we've already covered or not. have you guys had endocrine yet? oh oops. how about gi? oh boy. well then, ummm, for now, just think of (blah blah blah) and memorize (blah blah blah). you'll see it again later.

the brilliant "new" curriculum planning committee decided one day that second years would start on the wards earlier than before. the problem? the overlap with third years! keep in mind these guys have been going on retreats and eating tons of krispy kremes for no less than FIVE YEARS and they didn't come up with a solution to this until this academic year already started.

now shifting away from incompetence to flat out annoying ****, i have strong issues with the way the admissions is run. the school hands out full scholarships like they're going out of style, spends ten grand on second look weekend, sends HOLIDAY GIFTS (!!) to admits, and yet can't give a lick of financial aid to people who really need it. i know some dirt broke people who are on all loans. forgive me if that makes me a bit cynical. it's like once you're in they're like, "haha we bought you in and now you're on your own with our sh*tty regional reputation". i'm probably exaggerating but i've felt that way on more than one occasion.

now, does this kind of stuff happen at every school? i'm sure it happens at some. and is this a huge deal? not really, but as you can imagine, stuff like this keeps adding up. i wouldn't say these are deal breakers, but they are things to consider. at minimum, knowing this coming in will make you less disillusioned once you see it for yourself.

there are other things that are inappropriate to mention to anyone not enrolled in the school.
 

npp71681

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Hi!
leechy and footcramp,

Thanks a lot!
 

Bones2008

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Okay, I have to chime in. I think that opposing viewpoints are warranted, but I think footcramp is overly venting some pent-up rage that's been accumulating for what seems like some time. FC, I'm assuming you're an M2, based on what you've been saying up 'till this point. As an M1, I'd like to add some of my own viewpoints on some things that have been mentioned.

First, the match: It is true that the Michigan name exerts more influence in the Midwest, but that's not to say the name isn't respected elsewhere. The M4's with whom I've personally spoken have said that they not only felt that the Michigan name, but also the training they received here (note the subtle distinction), has helped them in the residency apps. Grads of this school match very well. Case in point, in 2002 there were 36 first-year spots open in dermatology. UMich grads filled six of those spots. There are over 120 med schools in the country, plus all the foreign ones who send people here; and one school filled 6 out of 36 spots in one of the most (if not the most) competitive fields. While I think the U.S. News ranking are over-used and over-emphasized, the fact that UMich consistently places in the top 3 in residency directors ranking is something that's worth looking at, because these people are our future bosses and those who will chose us in the Match.

Secondly, the "incompetence" of the administration: the M2's are the first to go through the new curriculum. I'm not surprised at all it's been rough going (other M2's that I've talked to have corroborated FC's complaints). I myself know what it's like to be in the first year of a new curriculum, and the situation lends itself to have problems. However, I can say that the M1's this year have experienced none of these things FC talks about. We already have the entire schedule for next semester in our hands. So, applicants, don't let the plight of the M2's affect your decision; the wrinkles will be almost all gone by the time you start.

Additionally, I'm not about to criticize the way money is handled here at this school. I know a bunch of classmates who are very, very happy with their financial aid packages. I know people who wish they could've gotten more (myself included). That's just the way life is. I can, however, assume that the administration knows a lot more than I do about how to spend money wisely and how to apportion money appropriately to keep the school running. If fleeces are the way they want to spend some pocket change, then that's how it is (though I may have to try to steal one from an unsuspecting M1 next year if they look cool).

Also, and this bothers me because it's an outright lie: you do not need to "apply" to be at interview lunches as a student. There is no screening process. The two M2's who run the lunches this year sent out an email to everyone at the beginning of the semester inviting anyone who was interested to come to an information session on lunches and tours. We put our names down and they made an email list of everyone who was there. Every week they invite everyone on the list to volunteer to be at lunch and give tours. footcramp, I respect your opinions; but, as you said above, "check your facts" before you start lying to these people.

I believe that FC's comments and those two aforementioned postings on interview feedback represent extremely disgruntled, though valid, opinions on the way things are at UMich. I can say from personal experience that the majority of people are happy here. There're pros and cons to every school, but I have yet to regret for a moment that I decided to come here.

Congrats to everyone who's been accepted. I hope you all consider coming here; it's a great place.
 

leechy

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Wow. Two highly informative, comprehensive, cogently presented perspectives on Michigan. I'm copy-pasting both of these for future reference. Thank you both!!
 
B

b&ierstiefel

OK, I'm an M4 applying to residencies now and I am a student at Michigan.

I appreciate the comments from both bones and footcramp. The issues raised by both posters have validity.

First of all, let me start by saying Congratulations to all of you who have been accepted here to Michigan. It is a great institution, I'm proud to have gone here, and I think it is a remarkable achievement to be accepted here. I'm so jealous of you all who got fleeces...I didn't get squat! :laugh:

Now, with this aside, I will offer my perspectives about two things that have been mentioned--reputations within/outside the Midwest and the clinical years.

(1) Reputation - When I matriculated, Michigan was #4 in terms of reputations amongst residency directors. I would like to offer that in addition to the quality of students that graduate from Michigan, there are two additional factors that may bias this ranking.
#1 - Michigan graduates 170 to 180 people per year vs. other schools that graduate anywhere from 80-120 per year. Hence, there is a lot of Michigan alums who are physicians all across the country. Many stay in the Midwest because they have family here, they grew up here, and they love it here. I am from the east coast and from going on residency interviews on the west and east coast, I do get the distinct impression that these folks are not as impressed as I would like to hope. Michigan's reputation is largely regional however, it is still well respected everywhere. Michigan's reputation does not seem to reward the applicant who is seeking to go back to California for residency. I know many people here who come to Michigan from California. Their intention is to return to that state for residency. However, some of these folks have a hard time. They will rank California programs #1-4 and Michigan #5 (because Michigan is strong in and of itself--how dare we rank Michigan low, right?). Guess what. Some of these folks end up at Michigan. Michigan loves to keep its own folks...there is quite a bit of inbreeding here. But this is not a completely bad thing because Michigan is a strong institution and you will get solid training. I will stress though that Michigan is far from being the absolute BEST! But it's pretty damn good.
#2- I will expand on this in the next section. However, some of my friends posit this hypothesis which I think is pretty interesting (I wish I could take credit for this one). Again, this is only a hypothesis. Michigan, during the clinical years, works you HARD. I mean really...you get absolutely WORKED! Michigan students are beaten down and trained well. Hence, when they go to residency programs, they have seen close to the worst of the worst. Michigan students are used to the crap and won't bitch and moan as much. So program directors won't hear a lot of lip from us because we're so used to being treated like crap. Think about it...let's say you go off to residency being used to taking overnight call every 4th night. Then there's the resident who came from a medical school that doesn't subject its students from taking overnight call. Suddenly, things get really busy. The Michigan resident isn't gonna bitch; he/she will be better adjusted to this schedule, will buckle down, and get the work done efficiently. The other resident may not be as prepared and so who is the program director gonna like better? My problem with this hypothesis is that adjustment woes are only temporary and things will even out as all the residents get used to the workload.

(2) Many premeds judge the medical school by looking at the first two years and the preclinical curriculum. Let me focus your attention to the clinical years. Did I mention that students get worked HARD? Absolutely WORKED! Also, grades are relatively deflated at our school. At some medical schools, most students get an Honors or High Pass and fewer students get a Pass. At those schools, a Pass means you really screwed up! At Michigan, it's a different mentality. A Pass is considered a huge accomplishment! Accordingly, half the students on a rotation will get a Pass. Internal Medicine, which is the rotation all residency program directors look at with close attention, is notorious for handing out a ridiculous number of Pass grades. I think this logic is ass backward. Now, a few of my classmates have posited this hypothesis (damn, I wish I came up with this one too!):

Why would Michigan hand out a lot of Pass grades? I will bring up the concept of inbreeding again. If you have a lot of Pass grades on your transcript, many residency directors may look down on your application. You may not even get an interview (although, I know of plenty of people with straight Pass transcripts who get interviews at fantastic places). However, they may not rank you highly in the Match. But guess who is gonna accept you with open arms? You got it. Michigan! Because Michigan's attitude towards a Pass grade is a bit skewed to say the least compared to other schools' attitudes toward Pass. Now you can put this together with the inbreeding concept. Many of us stay in Michigan for residency (I think close to 30% in the Class of 2002). Sure some of us ranked Michigan #1; they have family here and love Ann Arbor (which is an absolutely beautiful town). However, I do know some disgruntled California folks who got screwed because of this (talk to my roommate, he can bitch your ears off about this).

Anyways, I'll stop this diatribe. These are some of the issues which I didn't even come close to thinking about when choosing schools and I hope this gives you some insight into some "intangible" factors that don't seem obvious.

I will end by saying that as a graduating senior at Michigan medical school, I am still overall happy that I chose this place above other places. I worked my butt off here but I learned a ton. No school is gonna be perfect and sure I wonder what things would have been like if I went somewhere else. What you need to do at this point is this. You have been accepted to Michigan. So you are strong, smart applicants. You will get into other places. So you need to make the best decisions for yourselves, whether Michigan ends up being in your future or not. You will encounter challenges wherever you go and you will need to adapt which will allow you to kick ass.

Please feel free to PM me if you have any questions about UMich. I am happy to help anyone make an informed decision.
 
B

b&ierstiefel

Bones2008 said:
Also, and this bothers me because it's an outright lie: you do not need to "apply" to be at interview lunches as a student. There is no screening process. The two M2's who run the lunches this year sent out an email to everyone at the beginning of the semester inviting anyone who was interested to come to an information session on lunches and tours. We put our names down and they made an email list of everyone who was there. Every week they invite everyone on the list to volunteer to be at lunch and give tours.

I wanted to back bones up on this. The whole student body (M1's through M4's) get emails from the admissions office asking for volunteers to have lunch with applicants and give tours. We even get an attached Excel file with info on each applicant to help us familiarize ourselves with them before we meet them (we get to see your name, picture, alma mater, major, your address, your dog's name if you have one, and your favorite sex toy).

:D
 

Cryptonacious

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hey guys,

thanks for all the great info! I was wondering how I can get my hand on UMich's matchlist. I can't seem to find one online. I'm from the south and would definitely love to come back south for residency and life after death,
 

calstudent

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bridge01 said:

thanks for all the great info.
on a related (less important, obviously) note, i got a "happy holidays" card from UMich today; but, i don't think i'm getting a fleece (as footcramp mentioned, only some people do)
needless to say, i think that's kinda sad that UMich is already differentiating between aplicants at this point (i mean, i know the money they give out will do the same), but geez...
in other news, i don't know how to evaluate match lists, but UMich's looked pretty good when i looked at it. i guess that also having 170-180 other students to compete with for the same spots makes it tougher than if you were at, say, a school with 100 or 120.
 

Cryptonacious

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Hey Bridge01,

Thanks for link! I guess I should have read through that booklet.

I think I'll have to agree w/ calstudent because overall the matchlist looks straight to me. but then again, what do I know. as long as I can come back down south :) It's good to know the stuff about matching and all though. It'll definitely factor into whatever decision I make,

Thanks again all you guys!

calstudent said:
thanks for all the great info.
on a related (less important, obviously) note, i got a "happy holidays" card from UMich today; but, i don't think i'm getting a fleece (as footcramp mentioned, only some people do)
needless to say, i think that's kinda sad that UMich is already differentiating between aplicants at this point (i mean, i know the money they give out will do the same), but geez...
in other news, i don't know how to evaluate match lists, but UMich's looked pretty good when i looked at it. i guess that also having 170-180 other students to compete with for the same spots makes it tougher than if you were at, say, a school with 100 or 120.
 

Bones2008

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calstudent said:
i guess that also having 170-180 other students to compete with for the same spots makes it tougher than if you were at, say, a school with 100 or 120.
well, since you're competing with every other graduate in the country anyways, it really doesn't make a difference. In fact, I think UMich's size is a great plus! More people means more friends and more chances to meet others that you really get along with well.

Also, be wary of looking at one individual match list and using it to draw conclusions. A lot of things go into those lists, including the graduates' home states, regions of interest, specialty choice, etc. So, for example, let's say on one list you don't see many people matching in the South. That doesn't mean that people couldn't match there, just that they didn't; and that could be for any of the above reasons or others, too. Especially from a state school like UMich, you're gonna have a lot of people matching in Michigan and the Midwest purely because a lot of the students grew up in the area and want to stay there. Just something to consider. Good luck with your decisions guys. :thumbup:
 

sdner4life

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I concur.

AndyMilonakis said:
OK, I'm an M4 applying to residencies now and I am a student at Michigan.

I appreciate the comments from both bones and footcramp. The issues raised by both posters have validity.

First of all, let me start by saying Congratulations to all of you who have been accepted here to Michigan. It is a great institution, I'm proud to have gone here, and I think it is a remarkable achievement to be accepted here. I'm so jealous of you all who got fleeces...I didn't get squat! :laugh:

Now, with this aside, I will offer my perspectives about two things that have been mentioned--reputations within/outside the Midwest and the clinical years.

(1) Reputation - When I matriculated, Michigan was #4 in terms of reputations amongst residency directors. I would like to offer that in addition to the quality of students that graduate from Michigan, there are two additional factors that may bias this ranking.
#1 - Michigan graduates 170 to 180 people per year vs. other schools that graduate anywhere from 80-120 per year. Hence, there is a lot of Michigan alums who are physicians all across the country. Many stay in the Midwest because they have family here, they grew up here, and they love it here. I am from the east coast and from going on residency interviews on the west and east coast, I do get the distinct impression that these folks are not as impressed as I would like to hope. Michigan's reputation is largely regional however, it is still well respected everywhere. Michigan's reputation does not seem to reward the applicant who is seeking to go back to California for residency. I know many people here who come to Michigan from California. Their intention is to return to that state for residency. However, some of these folks have a hard time. They will rank California programs #1-4 and Michigan #5 (because Michigan is strong in and of itself--how dare we rank Michigan low, right?). Guess what. Some of these folks end up at Michigan. Michigan loves to keep its own folks...there is quite a bit of inbreeding here. But this is not a completely bad thing because Michigan is a strong institution and you will get solid training. I will stress though that Michigan is far from being the absolute BEST! But it's pretty damn good.
#2- I will expand on this in the next section. However, some of my friends posit this hypothesis which I think is pretty interesting (I wish I could take credit for this one). Again, this is only a hypothesis. Michigan, during the clinical years, works you HARD. I mean really...you get absolutely WORKED! Michigan students are beaten down and trained well. Hence, when they go to residency programs, they have seen close to the worst of the worst. Michigan students are used to the crap and won't bitch and moan as much. So program directors won't hear a lot of lip from us because we're so used to being treated like crap. Think about it...let's say you go off to residency being used to taking overnight call every 4th night. Then there's the resident who came from a medical school that doesn't subject its students from taking overnight call. Suddenly, things get really busy. The Michigan resident isn't gonna bitch; he/she will be better adjusted to this schedule, will buckle down, and get the work done efficiently. The other resident may not be as prepared and so who is the program director gonna like better? My problem with this hypothesis is that adjustment woes are only temporary and things will even out as all the residents get used to the workload.

(2) Many premeds judge the medical school by looking at the first two years and the preclinical curriculum. Let me focus your attention to the clinical years. Did I mention that students get worked HARD? Absolutely WORKED! Also, grades are relatively deflated at our school. At some medical schools, most students get an Honors or High Pass and fewer students get a Pass. At those schools, a Pass means you really screwed up! At Michigan, it's a different mentality. A Pass is considered a huge accomplishment! Accordingly, half the students on a rotation will get a Pass. Internal Medicine, which is the rotation all residency program directors look at with close attention, is notorious for handing out a ridiculous number of Pass grades. I think this logic is ass backward. Now, a few of my classmates have posited this hypothesis (damn, I wish I came up with this one too!):

Why would Michigan hand out a lot of Pass grades? I will bring up the concept of inbreeding again. If you have a lot of Pass grades on your transcript, many residency directors may look down on your application. You may not even get an interview (although, I know of plenty of people with straight Pass transcripts who get interviews at fantastic places). However, they may not rank you highly in the Match. But guess who is gonna accept you with open arms? You got it. Michigan! Because Michigan's attitude towards a Pass grade is a bit skewed to say the least compared to other schools' attitudes toward Pass. Now you can put this together with the inbreeding concept. Many of us stay in Michigan for residency (I think close to 30% in the Class of 2002). Sure some of us ranked Michigan #1; they have family here and love Ann Arbor (which is an absolutely beautiful town). However, I do know some disgruntled California folks who got screwed because of this (talk to my roommate, he can bitch your ears off about this).

Anyways, I'll stop this diatribe. These are some of the issues which I didn't even come close to thinking about when choosing schools and I hope this gives you some insight into some "intangible" factors that don't seem obvious.

I will end by saying that as a graduating senior at Michigan medical school, I am still overall happy that I chose this place above other places. I worked my butt off here but I learned a ton. No school is gonna be perfect and sure I wonder what things would have been like if I went somewhere else. What you need to do at this point is this. You have been accepted to Michigan. So you are strong, smart applicants. You will get into other places. So you need to make the best decisions for yourselves, whether Michigan ends up being in your future or not. You will encounter challenges wherever you go and you will need to adapt which will allow you to kick ass.

Please feel free to PM me if you have any questions about UMich. I am happy to help anyone make an informed decision.
 
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