University of Wisconsin-Madison SMPH or Georgetown University SOM?

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yrs240

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Hey, so I've been accepted to both Georgetown and University of Wisconsin-Madison school of medicine and am trying to decide between the two. I've heard good things about both of them.

I'm interested in research/academic medicine and would like to attend a ranked residency program acknowledged for its focus on research. I'm torn between the two schools because although UW has a phenomenal research program and ample opportunity for pursuing research with top investigators, they match an overwhelming number of students to primary care, while Georgetown sends a LOT of their students to top residency programs.

Any thoughts would be really helpful. Thanks in advance!

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Hey, so I've been accepted to both Georgetown and University of Wisconsin-Madison school of medicine and am trying to decide between the two. I've heard good things about both of them.

I'm interested in research/academic medicine and would like to attend a ranked residency program acknowledged for its focus on research. I'm torn between the two schools because although UW has a phenomenal research program and ample opportunity for pursuing research with top investigators, they match an overwhelming number of students to primary care, while Georgetown sends a LOT of their students to top residency programs.

Any thoughts would be really helpful. Thanks in advance!

UW matches a lot of people into primary care because a lot of our students want to go into primary care. We've had a pretty high rate of matching into competitive specialties for those who are interested in it. ~90+% of students who wanted to match into ortho or neurosurgery were able to do it the last 3 years (obviously there's some self-selection here, but it is what it is) That said, the emphasis on primary care is easing to some degree in the past decade as UW has moved up in the rankings. The last few years, the WMAA has sponsored a number of programs specifically designed to get students matched with physicians in many different specialties which has been nice. A good portion of our class is from rural areas in WI who want to go back and become PCPs in their home communities, which is admirable. A lot of other people here are interested in specializing. About half our class this year is staying here to do research, the majority of them with clinicians and top researchers in different specialties.

Georgetown is without a doubt a good school, but you definitely won't have the same amount of research resources you'll find at UW. It's a top flight research institution that is in the top 15 for research grants to its medical school and top 10 overall in NIH funding (#7 I believe)
 
Like DrizzT said, I know many people that have gotten accepted or are currently attending UW Madison for medical school, and they are all from small towns spread across the state, and that's where they want to practice at. UW Madison seems to really nurture that, especially with their WARM program that is specific to rural medicine.

However, Madison is also a heavyweight in research and it would not be hard getting yourself into research and oppertunities to help you match into a very competetive specialty.

It's really all personal preference, and at the end of the day no matter what school you go to, you matching into a competeitive field is going to be mostly about how hard you tried and how well you did.
 
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I defer to Drizzt and diggidy's experienced opinions.

I chose to go to UW-M over a more expensive private school. While things like cost, location and student support played a large factor in my decision, I also briefly looked at matchlists. It's hard to get any legitimate information off of it (it's all speculation as to whether each person got what they wanted), and this has been discussed ad nauseum.

The reasons the previous posters listed and the fact that I'm a born and bred midwesterner led me to decide the midwest-centric nature of the matchlist wouldn't be a problem EVEN if it were a school-related thing (which it most likely isn't, it's an individual effort). Heck, a competitive residency in the city of Chicago would qualify as one of my top choices for PGY.

I imagine that if you want to stay on the east coast for your PGY, and cost isn't a problem, then Georgetown would be the place to go just so you're sure that you won't be held back by any regional bias. But I wouldn't discount UW just because of this factor.
 
Also keep in mind that even OOS UW is ~80k cheaper than GT over 4 years, and generally has a better national reputation <shrug>
 
What is the cost difference between the two schools?

Is there any data about average USMLE scores @the two schools?

Georgetown might not be worth the money...only way it might is if you want to do residency there, and/or somewhere in the northeast. Some people out there still have bias/prejudice about the Midwest and South and may see a Georgetown degree as being more "prestigious". I actually interviewed there for residency a few years ago, and the main teaching hospital was pretty old, not very compurized, and a little run down...also the residents did not seem very happy but that may not be the case now.

Madison, WI is not exactly backwater in terms of research, as mentioned above.

If we new your tentative career goals, it might help us more to give you educated opinions. Right now, I am thinking with 2 similar schools, go to the cheaper one, unless you have specific reasons for wanting Georgetown.
 
What is the cost difference between the two schools?

Is there any data about average USMLE scores @the two schools?

Georgetown might not be worth the money...only way it might is if you want to do residency there, and/or somewhere in the northeast. Some people out there still have bias/prejudice about the Midwest and South and may see a Georgetown degree as being more "prestigious". I actually interviewed there for residency a few years ago, and the main teaching hospital was pretty old, not very compurized, and a little run down...also the residents did not seem very happy but that may not be the case now.

Madison, WI is not exactly backwater in terms of research, as mentioned above.

If we new your tentative career goals, it might help us more to give you educated opinions. Right now, I am thinking with 2 similar schools, go to the cheaper one, unless you have specific reasons for wanting Georgetown.

UW's facilities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Georgetown if one is concerned about that.

The 2010 class was in the high 220s for boards IIRC.
 
UW's facilities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Georgetown if one is concerned about that.

The 2010 class was in the high 220s for boards IIRC.

Thanks for the information. For your comment about the average board IIRC for the 2010 class, is that UW or Georgetown? Thanks.
 
Thanks for the information. For your comment about the average board IIRC for the 2010 class, is that UW or Georgetown? Thanks.

He is talking about UW. We will see how the current M1's do when it's their turn. After all, they're the first class in the new curriculum. Not sure if it'll matter that much, though.
 
UW's facilities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Georgetown if one is concerned about that.

The 2010 class was in the high 220s for boards IIRC.

Are Georgetown's facilities bad?
 
Hey, so I've been accepted to both Georgetown and University of Wisconsin-Madison school of medicine and am trying to decide between the two. I've heard good things about both of them.

I'm interested in research/academic medicine and would like to attend a ranked residency program acknowledged for its focus on research. I'm torn between the two schools because although UW has a phenomenal research program and ample opportunity for pursuing research with top investigators, they match an overwhelming number of students to primary care, while Georgetown sends a LOT of their students to top residency programs.

Any thoughts would be really helpful. Thanks in advance!

As UW student, I would like to emphasize how well we are taken care of in our preclinical years. Not sure what other schools are like, but the VAST majority of 1st/2nd year classes have been well organized and taught and exams are always fair (both in terms of questions on the exam and curves afterwards).

Also, I doubt that we have a problem matching folks into highly ranked specialties/programs, as many of our faculty are nationally renowned physicians.

With 2 weeks left for you to decide on a school, you should try to think of the 5 most important things to you, and try to get answers about both schools. I'll be happy to give my perspective, and I know that our admissions office would gladly set you up with students to contact and or come visit.

Best of luck!
 
As SDN's resident Georgetown troll, I am going to have to recommend Georgetown. Let me list off some points I want to make:

Facilities: Don't put too much weight into them. The fancy facilities oohhs and ahhhs go away after a few weeks of being mired in work. Georgetown's aren't that bad, you must have seen them for yourself. The rest of the Undergraduate campus is much much nicer, and so there are lots of other nicer looking study spaces. In addition, Georgetown Med plans on doing quite a bit of renovation in the next few years, to their classrooms and main thruway.

Match: Without a doubt Georgetown will place more nationally than Wisconsin (because of wisconsin resident self-selection for staying in their state). Whether or not this equals a better chance of matching into programs around the nation, I'm not sure, but it can't hurt. In this past match, we matched many people in both the West coast and in the midwest. Have a look at our match list (typically ~50% match into top 25 programs according to US News). We match a ton into Ortho ~16-19 each year, we match 4 or 5 into neurosurg, 3 or 4 into derm, and other competitive specialties at great programs.

Boards: Most recent 3rd years' avg on the STEP 1 was a 227.

Research: Georgetown and Lombardi Cancer Center, bring in about ~$160 million a year (nothing to sneeze at), and with our affiliated hospitals (especially Washington Hospital Center, the largest medical center in the DC metro area) our research numbers come to ~185 million this year. In addition, the National Institutes of Health, which is very receptive to having Georgetown students research and work there, is about a 15-20 minute metro ride away. U Wisconsin does not have the NIH :)



Conclusion: Come to Georgetown!!! But in all honesty, if you are a wisconsin resident, this should be any choice for you. Pick Wisconsin. Georgetown is an expensive school (I wish it wasn't, because we would attract so many more students). If the financials are equal (and don't write of Georgetown, because the university has upped its financial aid allotment for the year by 18%), then I would strongly recommend Georgetown. At least on the East Coast, Georgetown University will have the better "brand name" than U Wisconsin. U W will have the better name in the midwest clearly.
 
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Plus, don't be so sure that U Wisconsin's tuition will remain where it is now. The recession has caused many schools to raise both in-state and out-state tuition at all of their colleges and professional schools. Read the following article. I couldn't find anything on the medical school's tuition rising, but it likely would.

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/opinion/448690
 
Yeah, I sure would love to get into Georgetown. We'll see this upcoming cycle, I guess.:xf:
 
Facilities: Don't put too much weight into them. The fancy facilities oohhs and ahhhs go away after a few weeks of being mired in work. Georgetown's aren't that bad, you must have seen them for yourself. The rest of the Undergraduate campus is much much nicer, and so there are lots of other nicer looking study spaces. In addition, Georgetown Med plans on doing quite a bit of renovation in the next few years, to their classrooms and main thruway.

I'd beg to differ. I think the facilities make a BIG difference especially near exams when you're going to spend 10+ hours a day at library/school/study area. We have dozens of nice study spaces with key-coded doors for med student access, climate control, computers with projectors to rewatch images/go through tests, etc. Wisconsin spent/is spending 2 billion dollars on it's brand new health sciences complex that opened several years ago and the students of UW SMPH reaps the benefits of a state of the art facility that has thousands of top clinicians and researchers working in it. It's a 2 minute walk to the research building from the med school or to the hospital, which makes opportunities for students to shadow, do research, participate in grand rounds, etc, easy and convenient.

Match: Without a doubt Georgetown will place more nationally than Wisconsin (because of wisconsin resident self-selection for staying in their state). Whether or not this equals a better chance of matching into programs around the nation, I'm not sure, but it can't hurt. In this past match, we matched many people in both the West coast and in the midwest. Have a look at our match list (typically ~50% match into top 25 programs according to US News). We match a ton into Ortho ~16-19 each year, we match 4 or 5 into neurosurg, 3 or 4 into derm, and other competitive specialties at great programs.

It depends what you mean by nationally... about a quarter of our students matched in WI this year, the rest of them matched in other states. Definitely a good portion of people matched in the Midwest, but that is also because ~80% of our class is from WI, so many of them wanted to stay in the area. That said, UW matched 75% of its class nationally, many into top programs nationally in competitive specialties.

Research: Georgetown and Lombardi Cancer Center, bring in about ~$160 million a year (nothing to sneeze at), and with our affiliated hospitals (especially Washington Hospital Center, the largest medical center in the DC metro area) our research numbers come to ~185 million this year. In addition, the National Institutes of Health, which is very receptive to having Georgetown students research and work there, is about a 15-20 minute metro ride away. U Wisconsin does not have the NIH :)

UW SMPH (without it's other hospital affiliates) had about 250 million in research in 2009, and there are no other medical schools in the Madison area so our students have a lot of options for doing research in top labs. Certainly the NIH is close to GT but it's also close to GW, Howard, and to a lesser degree some of the VA schools and UMD/JH. I don't know how viable it is to do research during the school year at GT, but a lot of students do it here. One nice thing is our access to top faculty. During the first year, students had 5 different department chairs as instructors, and said clinicians usually take 10+ students into their labs each summer.
Conclusion: Come to Georgetown!!! But in all honesty, if you are a wisconsin resident, this should be any choice for you. Pick Wisconsin. Georgetown is an expensive school (I wish it wasn't, because we would attract so many more students). If the financials are equal (and don't write of Georgetown, because the university has upped its financial aid allotment for the year by 18%), then I would strongly recommend Georgetown. At least on the East Coast, Georgetown University will have the better "brand name" than U Wisconsin. U W will have the better name in the midwest clearly.

The difference in tuition between IS/OOS isn't that large at UW. Our OOS students are only paying about 50k/year total COA because our COL is much much less than DC. Cost aside, I think location would probably be the determinant for most people. I think for someone interested in academic medicine, though, having unparalleled access to leading faculty and having a brand new multibillion dollar state of the art facility that brings thousands of clinicians and scientists into one facility is hard to ignore.
 
Is Wisconsin friendly to OOS? Don't know if I should apply there.
 
Is Wisconsin friendly to OOS? Don't know if I should apply there.

I didn't think it was (the numbers in the MSAR/USNWR also suggest UW isn't that friendly), but I added UW on a whim a few weeks after my AMCAS was verified. I am very glad that I chose to do so as the school is a great fit and I will be heading there this fall.

The secondary application is relatively cheap, IIRC its like $50 or $55. If you get an interview as OOS, you have a very good chance of being accepted (its something like 60-66% based on the numbers). So if you have the extra money to spend and think you'd be a good fit (read up on the school) then you should go for it.
 
Is Wisconsin friendly to OOS? Don't know if I should apply there.

They definitely favor WI residents because it's a public school, but at the dinner I had with current med students the night before my interview, a lot of them were from California. One of the students I talked to was from California, and she said she thinks it's the most represented state besides WI.
 
Plus, don't be so sure that U Wisconsin's tuition will remain where it is now. The recession has caused many schools to raise both in-state and out-state tuition at all of their colleges and professional schools. Read the following article. I couldn't find anything on the medical school's tuition rising, but it likely would.

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/opinion/448690

Either way, you should be budgeting for a 5% increase in COA for each subsequent year you are attending school. Tuition always goes up, never down. Coolest thing for me is that UW OOS's COA is almost exactly the same as my state school's IS COA. That state school is Wayne State, and Michigan is arguably a state that's hit worse than Wisconsin as far as the recession goes. So, works for me, might not work for some of you other guys.
 
Is Wisconsin friendly to OOS? Don't know if I should apply there.

We interview about 250-300 OOS a year and accept about 1/3 of those OOS students interviewed. Usually the class ends up being between 15-20% OOS as far as I can tell.
 
Is Madison still doing the auto-interview for instaters? The last person I talked to(the dean of the WARM program actually, came to UW-Milwaukee and gave a very nice presentations to the pre-meds) said that if you're instate and get an interview, your numbers are up to par for them, and it's all up to how you interview then. Are more schools in general doing this now? I mean I know technically you could still have an amazing interview and get rejected, but are more schools only offering interviews to students they would be willing to accept grade/MCAT wise, and then brining them in for the interview to finish off their opinions? I know this would seem like common sense, but it seems like there is still a fair amount of school that will give interviews to people they had no intention on offering admission to.
 
I'd beg to differ. I think the facilities make a BIG difference especially near exams when you're going to spend 10+ hours a day at library/school/study area. We have dozens of nice study spaces with key-coded doors for med student access, climate control, computers with projectors to rewatch images/go through tests, etc. Wisconsin spent/is spending 2 billion dollars on it's brand new health sciences complex that opened several years ago and the students of UW SMPH reaps the benefits of a state of the art facility that has thousands of top clinicians and researchers working in it. It's a 2 minute walk to the research building from the med school or to the hospital, which makes opportunities for students to shadow, do research, participate in grand rounds, etc, easy and convenient.

Whoa whoa this isn't a competition here. I like my school and you like your school.

Facilities depends on the person. I guess I'm someone not impressed by fancy facilities. Plus as I said before, Georgetown's Med Campus is feet away from one of the nicest undergrad campuses in the nation.

As for top clinicians, Georgetown typically has the top clinicians in the DC metro area since it is the best regarded academic center in this same area. Our hospital is also right next to our medical school, and while it's a little smaller and older, it has all the makings of your typical academic medical center. 95% opportunities at UW's hospital are probably opportunities to engage in at Georgetown's Hospital. Plus as I said, we round in the largest most well known hospital in the district, which sees a ton of interesting cases and caters to the underserved population.

As for research, yes you got me beat. UW does more research than Georgetown. But after a certain point, will there be that many more tangible differences in the amount of opportunities you could see yourself interested in, when comparing $185 million dollars of funding and $250 million dollars? GW and Howard students typically don't do much research. I haven't come across many that are interested in doing a ton of research at NIH, because they are typically more interested in the opportunities in working in the underserved areas and on the hill. Oh right that reminds me: if you have an interest in healthcare reform and policy, DC is obviously a hot-bed for that.

As for the match, the 2008 news item for UW had 42 out of 122 staying in Wisconsin. Thats a rate of 34% not 25%. The article below for the 2009 match, indicates that even more students are staying in Wisconsin (nothing wrong this), and more are picking Primary Care (nothing wrong this, just stating the facts). Case in point: more of Georgetown's class decided to move else where and also decided to go into the surgical and other specialities. EDIT*** Actually this is typically the case, but this year in the 2009 match for Georgetown, 40% went into primary care which was high for Georgetown's typical year. I would say we normally place 30-35% in primary care typically.

2008 UW match:http://www.med.wisc.edu/news/item.php?id=2726

2009 UW match:http://www.med.wisc.edu/news/item.php?id=4605

As for cost of attendance: I concede, UW is much cheaper than Georgetown. As I said to the OP, if he has IS at Wisconsin, or the financials are very important to him, he should take UW without question, it's a fantastic school. But.....you have to look at DC's cost of living in another light. DC is an amazing city. More amazing than NY in my eye (though this is blasphemy to some). You are paying a little more to be in a city full of culture, festivals, museums, music, and food. Plus, Georgetown University has pledged to up the cache of funds for financial aid by 18%, so some students may get some more competitive financial aid packages.
 
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And to compare, which looks like more fun?


wisconsin2h.jpg


or

dc_cityscape.jpg



:D Just kidding, really. I actually wish DC had a little more green space. I don't want this to turn into a "p*ss*ng" contest. The OP never stated anything about financials. I stand by my case though: If the OP has IS or if financials are very important to him/her, and if Georgetown does not offer you a competitive need-based financial aid package, go with U Wisconsin. If not then consider both. You can't go wrong with either, and I think it really should come down to what kind of setting and area you like more because academically the schools are near equals.
 
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Regarding facilities, is space at a premium given you have a pretty large class as well as the SMP people around?

As for the match, the 2008 news item for UW had 42 out of 122 staying in Wisconsin. Thats a rate of 34% not 25%. The article below for the 2009 match, indicates that even more students are staying in Wisconsin (nothing wrong this), and more are picking Primary Care (nothing wrong this, just stating the facts). Case in point: more of Georgetown's class decided to move else where and also decided to go into the surgical and other specialities. EDIT*** Actually this is typically the case, but this year in the 2009 match for Georgetown, 40% went into primary care which was high for Georgetown's typical year. I would say we normally place 30-35% in primary care typically.

I think that estimate is a little high because it includes those doing 1 year internships in IM prior to starting radiology and other specialties, as well as counting OB/Gyn and EM as primary care. Looking at the list, I counted 52 people going into IM, Fam Med, and Peds (the traditional primary care specialties) which is about 1/3 of those matched. I counted 47 people (or about 30%) staying in WI this year on the list. If I get ambitious enough I'll transcribe the list from paper and post the specialties/locations on the 2009 match list thread. The PDF has people's names on it so I don't want to post it as is.
 
Is Madison still doing the auto-interview for instaters?

I don't think so. I think they stopped doing that a couple years ago. They used to automatically send secondaries to all WI residents, too, but I think they might even have an initial screening after submitting the AMCAS now. Don't quote me, but that's what I heard.
 
I don't think so. I think they stopped doing that a couple years ago. They used to automatically send secondaries to all WI residents, too, but I think they might even have an initial screening after submitting the AMCAS now. Don't quote me, but that's what I heard.

They stopped doing that last cycle. Now UW interviews about 250-300 IS students a year and admits about 2/3 of them. They screen the secondary but the screen is realy low, like 3.2/27.
 
Regarding facilities, is space at a premium given you have a pretty large class as well as the SMP people around?

Nope. Never had a hard time finding a spot in our library. Plus we have the undergraduate library. Plus several of the academic buildings stay open late for studying in the classrooms. Plus we are building a brand new science center and business school building, which will increase study space even more. Really, if you've never been to Georgetown's campus, you don't realize how close the undergraduate facilities are to the medical campus. They are essentially one campus, and I can walk from the edge of the medical campus, to the edge of the undergraduate campus in about 10-15 mins. It's a dense campus.
 
I know this is an old thread, but do you think those numbers are fairly accurate to screen out in state students? :'(
 
Depends on if you are URM or not and if you have any post-bacc or graduate grades.

TBH, if you can't get above those screening stats, your chances of getting an interview are very low regardless.
 
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