Unmatched EM applicant commits suicide

[Mad Jack]

Yep, those doctorally prepared NPs and PAs with full practice authority are really demonstrating the upwards trajectory of American medical (I mean advanced nursing) education.

NPs and PAs are a separate issue

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[Mad Jack]

Yeah doctors can’t argue about quality when NP and PA exist.

Also that begs the question would she be better off being an ortho PA? After two years less that and with her resume she got into med school she should’ve gotten into PA school and I know many NPs and PAs have substance abuse issues who are gainfully employed.

It seems the NP and PA degree is a more “powerful “degree than MD degree in by itself.

Even financially when you compare the risk of MD you lose 7 years of PA like income and compounding student loans.

For nontraditional’s or people have a less than stellar record I would argue that medical school is just too risky and you’d be better off pursuing NP or PA school. Even a nursing degree is incredibly flexible non-clinical and you could easily go into management.

Not to mention the flexibility a PA brings you You could go into ER you could do Ortho how are you could even do Derm and you won’t be locked out of these by a standardized test just apply to these places or ask to be on an academic place and there you have it.

In residency not only are you working you got to study imagine if you worked really hard like 80 hour weeks you would be making 20k.

Even in times of a pandemic we would all get ask to leave to cut costs than a very productive PA.

You make like, 50-65k in residency, and hours are closer to 60-65 for most specialties. It's a rough road but as a nontrad I don't have many regrets.

 

[Apollyon]

Also keep in mind, none of those other factors, MCAT, Step I, Step II, Inservice or Board scores are even remotely close to as important as the TAT score. That's the "Total A-hole Test." A failing score on that test instantaneously voids a 99th percentile on all the others. It's a quick easy class to pass, but some never do.

Haha - before I read your second line, I IMMEDIATELY thought of the TAT - the "Thematic Apperception Test". That's the one where you get the picture blocks, and have to arrange them in an order to make a coherent story.

 

[RustedFox]

You make like, 50-65k in residency, and hours are closer to 60-65 for most specialties. It's a rough road but as a nontrad I don't have many regrets.

50-65K?

Sheeeeeeet.
Where did you train, moneybags?

PGY-3 (My site) = 37,650.

 

[GeneralVeers]

50-65K?

Sheeeeeeet.
Where did you train, moneybags?

PGY-3 (My site) = 37,650.

36K yearly in Los Angeles (poverty level)
44K in TX

Is 65K in any city worth living, or a high-cost hellhole like NYC?

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

And compare that to 150 anOrtho PA would make working 40 hours with only two years of education

 

[RustedFox]

And compare that to 150 anOrtho PA would make working 40 hours with only two years of education

Yep.
No wonder why "MLP" is such a popular option.
Less upfront cost in terms of cash-money-honey and time.
Less liability on the back-end.
Faster ROI.
AND... you get to wear a white coat and act like you know what you're talking about!

 

[Mad Jack]

50-65K?

Sheeeeeeet.
Where did you train, moneybags?

PGY-3 (My site) = 37,650.

Holy crap, really? It's almost impossible to find a place that pays less than 50k in the Northeast. And here I was thinking I was getting shafted making less than some of the places I applied that paid 65-70k in the cities...

 

[Birdstrike]

In 2011-2012 my PGY-4 fellowship salary was 60K in NYC. My rent alone for the year was $65K.

 

[NITRAS]

In 2011-2012 my PGY-4 fellowship salary was 60K in NYC. My rent alone for the year was $65K.

That’s depressing. . .

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

50-65K?

Sheeeeeeet.
Where did you train, moneybags?

PGY-3 (My site) = 37,650.

Holy ****. In 2010 PGY-1 I made 52k

 

[RustedFox]

2009-2012.
35, 36, 37k.

 

[nimbus]

1992-1996

29k-33k (NYC and west coast). Still had enough for a sweet ass Colnago.

 

[Birdstrike]

1992-1996

29k-33k (NYC and west coast). Still had enough for a sweet ass Colnago.

at first I read that without the Colnago on the end

 

[Birdstrike]

That’s depressing. . .

It was actually a great year. I wouldn't trade it for anything.

 

[thegenius]

36K yearly in Los Angeles (poverty level)
44K in TX

Is 65K in any city worth living, or a high-cost hellhole like NYC?

high-cost hellhole in NYC. Made 62-65K over my 4 years at NewYork-Presbyterian

 

[Modstopizdy]

Argument: The US doesn’t, and shouldn’t, care where they get their doctors from as long as we end up with the most talented and capable ones we can find

Great, that is an actual argument, however misguided and wrong. Why is it wrong? Because if you look at the real world, merit is one of the least important drivers governing decision making, and rightfully so. Parents pay college tuition for their kids, not for the most talented and capable kids they can find. Political leaders (shysters) are selected from among the citizenry of the nation they are to lead, regardless of how many more "talented" shysters there may be across the border. The same principle applies to every position from president to farm workers, natives are given preference and foreigners are considered only as a last resort. On a societal level the world is organized around the concept of nation states, and on the personal level the world is organized around the concept of blood ties. Meritocracy? Not really.

But that's all just philosophical jerking off. What's actually relevant here is that US Law exists, and governs policy areas like immigration, labor markets, and the distribution of taxpayer money, all of which are intimately tied in with the match process. The way the match process is set up flies directly in the face of the prevailing way all those policy areas are handled not just by the US government but all governments the world over. Just try to imagine, without bursting out laughing, a situation in which graduating medical students in India had the door to a medical career in their own country slammed shut in their face so that "more talented" American imports could take their post-graduate training slots instead! The way this is currently handled in this country is loony tunes land, and I think there is a legitimate legal challenge to be made here on multiple grounds, from immigration law to the misuse of federal funds. I matched so I can't sue because of lack of standing, but I'd encourage anyone who didn't match to consider lawsuits. Particularly unmatched minority candidates as that would put additional wind in the sails of their challenge.

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

In 2011-2012 my PGY-4 fellowship salary was 60K in NYC. My rent alone for the year was $65K.

$5,400/mo in 2011? Were you living in a hotel penthouse or something?

 

[V5RED]

Not enough information for some of the judgments here. I will say this though, if her criminal record (which is not actually specified in the link in terms of felony/misdemeanor) is the primary reason she was unable to match, then a large portion of the blame falls on Rochester for admitting a student with a record that would preclude matching.

 

[cyanide12345678]

The point of the match isn't to provide jobs to American citizens, it's to provide America with trained physicians. The origin of those physicians doesn't matter for the purpose of the match.

That being said, the system as it's currently done at the program level is heavily weighted in favor of US grads. You have only to look at the average statistics of matched US grads versus IMG/FMGs to see that. The post by @cyanide12345678 is proof of that. I'm FM and my stats were way worse than his wife's and I matched my #2 spot.

Since i did high school in Pakistan, i have plenty of friends who are imgs and have matched here. My wife eventually did match to her number one, but she applied to 110 programs and had 8 interviews in family medicine. At her residency right now, she's considered their strongest resident. All her reviews as a fresh intern were that she was performing at the level of a second year.

One of my friends step 1 245, step 2 252. It took him 3 attempts to match into IM. It's unheard of for a US grad with those numbers getting 4-6 interviews after applying to a 100 plus programs. Yet, every year, that's where he was.

The bias is huge already. If the US grads can still not compete despite an already large bias then it's not anyone elses fault. The system is already ridiculously rigged in their benefit. At some point in life, competence and merit matter.

And not all residencies are federally funded now with tax payer money. I wish they were and this glut of terrible residencies will stop. Also, maybe there is a glut of med schools. Pretty sure you can buy a education now at some crappy med school with terrible scores. It's a glut of med schools who are accepting terrible candidates that may be the issue.

Also.... Some of the **** hole rural places which can never find a doc, guess which residency trained doctors go there? The Imgs who got accepted on j1 visas who now require j1 waivers and work in rural places where no else will work.

If American grads can't compete despite a massive leg up - they simply didn't work hard enough.

 

[deleted480308]

Great, that is an actual argument, however misguided and wrong. Why is it wrong? Because if you look at the real world, merit is one of the least important drivers governing decision making, and rightfully so. Parents pay college tuition for their kids, not for the most talented and capable kids they can find. Political leaders (shysters) are selected from among the citizenry of the nation they are to lead, regardless of how many more "talented" shysters there may be across the border. The same principle applies to every position from president to farm workers, natives are given preference and foreigners are considered only as a last resort. On a societal level the world is organized around the concept of nation states, and on the personal level the world is organized around the concept of blood ties. Meritocracy? Not really.

But that's all just philosophical jerking off. What's actually relevant here is that US Law exists, and governs policy areas like immigration, labor markets, and the distribution of taxpayer money, all of which are intimately tied in with the match process. The way the match process is set up flies directly in the face of the prevailing way all those policy areas are handled not just by the US government but all governments the world over. Just try to imagine, without bursting out laughing, a situation in which graduating medical students in India had the door to a medical career in their own country slammed shut in their face so that "more talented" American imports could take their post-graduate training slots instead! The way this is currently handled in this country is loony tunes land, and I think there is a legitimate legal challenge to be made here on multiple grounds, from immigration law to the misuse of federal funds. I matched so I can't sue because of lack of standing, but I'd encourage anyone who didn't match to consider lawsuits. Particularly unmatched minority candidates as that would put additional wind in the sails of their challenge.

I think you are bad at policy

 

[Lexdiamondz]

Great, that is an actual argument, however misguided and wrong. Why is it wrong? Because if you look at the real world, merit is one of the least important drivers governing decision making, and rightfully so. Parents pay college tuition for their kids, not for the most talented and capable kids they can find. Political leaders (shysters) are selected from among the citizenry of the nation they are to lead, regardless of how many more "talented" shysters there may be across the border. The same principle applies to every position from president to farm workers, natives are given preference and foreigners are considered only as a last resort. On a societal level the world is organized around the concept of nation states, and on the personal level the world is organized around the concept of blood ties. Meritocracy? Not really.

But that's all just philosophical jerking off. What's actually relevant here is that US Law exists, and governs policy areas like immigration, labor markets, and the distribution of taxpayer money, all of which are intimately tied in with the match process. The way the match process is set up flies directly in the face of the prevailing way all those policy areas are handled not just by the US government but all governments the world over. Just try to imagine, without bursting out laughing, a situation in which graduating medical students in India had the door to a medical career in their own country slammed shut in their face so that "more talented" American imports could take their post-graduate training slots instead! The way this is currently handled in this country is loony tunes land, and I think there is a legitimate legal challenge to be made here on multiple grounds, from immigration law to the misuse of federal funds. I matched so I can't sue because of lack of standing, but I'd encourage anyone who didn't match to consider lawsuits. Particularly unmatched minority candidates as that would put additional wind in the sails of their challenge.

This isn't happening in the US and you know it.

Again, 95% of USMDs match. The vast majority who fail to match do so for personal reasons. You literally can't get more protectionist than that.

 

[kaygeebee]

Not enough information for some of the judgments here. I will say this though, if her criminal record (which is not actually specified in the link in terms of felony/misdemeanor) is the primary reason she was unable to match, then a large portion of the blame falls on Rochester for admitting a student with a record that would preclude matching.

Agreed. That 99th percentile on the MCAT probably caught their attention but ultimately, she should have had better advising to guide her career path. God forbid I was in her position, I would have applied IM or FM and taken it from there. Ortho was essentially impossible for her.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Also the match data tells us that people with 260s get into Family and Internal medicine all the time. A step score just opens doors which is more relevant in medical school. Step scores are good but after 240 they lose weight and fit is much more accountable I say this as I did selection for my residency. Every program even mid tier competitive specialty has someone that has scored high so I am always baffled when people think it can make up for a red flag.


However in residency it may be different since you have to do a job and resident directors should have input in red flags that they wouldn't give you a chance to match in residency. Still I know residents with substance abuse issues who have residencies in FM and IM so its hard to say and every premed always says they love FM so you can't blame the med school admissions. However the felon thing may be different some hospitals you can't work and be a convicted felon because of hospital policy. Hospitals see kids and many states you can't be around kids if you are a felon doesn't matter what you do, so there's that to.

Her story states that she was crushed by not matching AND missing milestones because of medical school. Felon status doesn't dampen your chances of getting a degree you can graduate on probation and prison. Getting the job is the hard part. She should have tried to get it expunged so it wouldn't even be brought up.

 

[nimbus]

FWIW it looks like she did 2 prelim surgery internships, one in NJ and one in NV. That’ll make just about anybody depressed.

 

[Birdstrike]

By the way, anyone that dislikes a post without saying why, gets immediately and permanently on ignore. Bye.

 

[Mad Jack]

Great, that is an actual argument, however misguided and wrong. Why is it wrong? Because if you look at the real world, merit is one of the least important drivers governing decision making, and rightfully so. Parents pay college tuition for their kids, not for the most talented and capable kids they can find. Political leaders (shysters) are selected from among the citizenry of the nation they are to lead, regardless of how many more "talented" shysters there may be across the border. The same principle applies to every position from president to farm workers, natives are given preference and foreigners are considered only as a last resort. On a societal level the world is organized around the concept of nation states, and on the personal level the world is organized around the concept of blood ties. Meritocracy? Not really.

But that's all just philosophical jerking off. What's actually relevant here is that US Law exists, and governs policy areas like immigration, labor markets, and the distribution of taxpayer money, all of which are intimately tied in with the match process. The way the match process is set up flies directly in the face of the prevailing way all those policy areas are handled not just by the US government but all governments the world over. Just try to imagine, without bursting out laughing, a situation in which graduating medical students in India had the door to a medical career in their own country slammed shut in their face so that "more talented" American imports could take their post-graduate training slots instead! The way this is currently handled in this country is loony tunes land, and I think there is a legitimate legal challenge to be made here on multiple grounds, from immigration law to the misuse of federal funds. I matched so I can't sue because of lack of standing, but I'd encourage anyone who didn't match to consider lawsuits. Particularly unmatched minority candidates as that would put additional wind in the sails of their challenge.

They literally would have no grounds. This isn't the EU where you must fill a position with a qualified EU native first, nor is the purpose of the tax funds spent to train Americans, but rather to train doctors to treat Medicate beneficiaries.

 

[Mad Jack]

FWIW it looks like she did 2 prelim surgery internships, one in NJ and one in NV. That’ll make just about anybody depressed.

Damn, that makes the whole situation even more depressing since she could have entered practice in some capacities and definitely could have matched other specialties

 

[eligolden]

Wow. This is one of the most discouraging and tone-deaf threads I've ever read. Who made people here the suicide police? Why do some commenters here think they are qualified to decide whether her reasons for killing herself are good enough? What a shameful way to discuss her life and accomplishments. At the end of the day, she lost her life, and it's because she failed to match three times. We can discuss whether the matching process needs fixing in a manner that doesn't blame her. She isn't the first person (and she will certainly not be the last) who has committed suicide due to psychiatric issues related to his/her medical career. Stop blaming the victim.

 

[deleted128562]

Wow. This is one of the most discouraging and tone-deaf threads I've ever read. Who made people here the suicide police? Why do some commenters here think they are qualified to decide whether her reasons for killing herself are good enough? What a shameful way to discuss her life and accomplishments. At the end of the day, she lost her life, and it's because she failed to match three times. We can discuss whether the matching process needs fixing in a manner that doesn't blame her. She isn't the first person (and she will certainly not be the last) who has committed suicide due to psychiatric issues related to his/her medical career. Stop blaming the victim.

Given the tone of your post and you being a new poster here, I’m assuming it’s likely you knew her. If that’s the case I’m very sorry for your loss and that you and others who loved her are going through this.

 

[KGflyboy]

Suicide is always a tragedy.

We are all painfully aware of the prevalence of physician burnout, depression, and suicide.

I think one of the biggest reasons physicians don't reach out for help with mental health problems is the fear of judgement from piers.

I can't imagine anybody currently battling a mental health crisis who reads this thread will feel supported and safe reaching out for help.

Let's stick to supporting each other.

If anybody is struggling with depression and having thoughts of suicide, please reach out for help.

National Suicide Prevention Hotline
1-800-273-8255

 

[deleted941485]

Yep, those doctorally prepared NPs and PAs with full practice authority are really demonstrating the upwards trajectory of American medical (I mean advanced nursing) education.

Americans love cheap labor. If they can get an IMG MD that they can dangle citizenship in front of and will work like a dog for nothing then sure they will take it but if not they’ll take a DNP.

 

[Splenda88]

Agreed. Blaming the match doesn't make sense. It appears there is a lot of underlying psychiatric issues. The match could have easily put her in a depression that she wasn't able to cope with.

She had done a prelim year per the article, so she had 1 year post grad training. I believe you can practice in some rural areas in some capacity since you can acquire a state license with one year of training. Also, applying to orthopedic surgery with red flags on your application isn't truly the best choice. People with stellar applications don't get in. And following this up with EM, that's still fairly competitive. She should have tried and applied to every family medicine program in the country. The outcome could have been different.

Either way, she had over come a lot, can't imagine going from jail to becoming a doctor. That is truly an amazing turn around which is impressive.

The problem is that a lot AMG do not know that you can get an unrestricted medical license in ~33 US states after 1-yr postgrad training. I was shocked when so many of my co-residents do not even know that.

 

[nich2200]

I’ve been watching this thread long enough in pure horror at so many physicians' apathy. I genuinely feel sorry for whatever happened in your life that makes you feel like you can only feel empathy for someone you know or that you have to "tough things out" because that's just how life is.

God forbid you or someone you love goes through a trauma that demands the grace of others around you. The people who share your position won’t be the ones to support you. And guess what, we will. Because we don’t have to know anything about your past, your dehumanizing comments, or really anything about you to feel like your life is valuable. We won't even blame you in the trauma. And that’s because our compassion is not contingent upon if we have a relationship with you or if we deem you “deserving” of compassion.

So before someone comes at me about my "tone" or the fact that I'm a new user: no, I do not know her. No, I do not have to know her.

 

[EtomidateAndSux]

The problem is that a lot AMG do not know that you can get an unrestricted medical license in ~33 US states after 1-yr postgrad training. I was shocked when so many of my co-residents do not even know that.

Yeah, but what kind of future is that? What exactly will you do with a medical license with no path for specialty certification? Work in urgent cares for the rest of your life? Maybe I'm not looking hard enough but I've yet to come across a job listing looking for someone who has a medical license yet is non-BE/BC. Everyone likes to talk about "getting an unrestricted medical license" but I never actually see anyone providing concrete evidence of how this actually translates to good career outcomes, or career outcomes at all.

 

[Splenda88]

Since i did high school in Pakistan, i have plenty of friends who are imgs and have matched here. My wife eventually did match to her number one, but she applied to 110 programs and had 8 interviews in family medicine. At her residency right now, she's considered their strongest resident. All her reviews as a fresh intern were that she was performing at the level of a second year.

One of my friends step 1 245, step 2 252. It took him 3 attempts to match into IM. It's unheard of for a US grad with those numbers getting 4-6 interviews after applying to a 100 plus programs. Yet, every year, that's where he was.

The bias is huge already. If the US grads can still not compete despite an already large bias then it's not anyone elses fault. The system is already ridiculously rigged in their benefit. At some point in life, competence and merit matter.

And not all residencies are federally funded now with tax payer money. I wish they were and this glut of terrible residencies will stop. Also, maybe there is a glut of med schools. Pretty sure you can buy a education now at some crappy med school with terrible scores. It's a glut of med schools who are accepting terrible candidates that may be the issue.

Also.... Some of the **** hole rural places which can never find a doc, guess which residency trained doctors go there? The Imgs who got accepted on j1 visas who now require j1 waivers and work in rural places where no else will work.

If American grads can't compete despite a massive leg up - they simply didn't work hard enough.

Charting the outcomes have shown us that the average step 1/2 of US students who matched in almost every specialty is higher than IMG/FMG... Not sure where the assumption about FMG/IMG who matched have higher step1/2 than AMGs come from.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

Many practice in exactly that way, in the shadows far from the bright lights of big academic institutions and wealthy community hospitals. Rural urgent care, EDs way out in the sticks, it’s done all the time.

Yeah, but what kind of future is that? What exactly will you do with a medical license with no path for specialty certification? Work in urgent cares for the rest of your life? Maybe I'm not looking hard enough but I've yet to come across a job listing looking for someone who has a medical license yet is non-BE/BC. Everyone likes to talk about "getting an unrestricted medical license" but I never actually see anyone providing concrete evidence of how this actually works.

 

[Splenda88]

Yeah, but what kind of future is that? What exactly will you do with a medical license with no path for specialty certification? Work in urgent cares for the rest of your life? Maybe I'm not looking hard enough but I've yet to come across a job listing looking for someone who has a medical license yet is non-BE/BC. Everyone likes to talk about "getting an unrestricted medical license" but I never actually see anyone providing concrete evidence of how this actually works.

Maybe it's not popular in other states, but I know many rich general practitioners in south FL. One of my friends is a GP who is working for Indian Health Service with a GP license (1-yr post grad training). He is seeing < 10/days (M- Fr 8am to 5pm)... Salary ~200k/yr with all the benefits the fed government provide...

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Yeah, but what kind of future is that? What exactly will you do with a medical license with no path for specialty certification? Work in urgent cares for the rest of your life? Maybe I'm not looking hard enough but I've yet to come across a job listing looking for someone who has a medical license yet is non-BE/BC. Everyone likes to talk about "getting an unrestricted medical license" but I never actually see anyone providing concrete evidence of how this actually translates to good career outcomes, or career outcomes at all.

Making six figures which is more than 90% of Americans will make and getting on with your life. That’s what type of future you have.

 

[HoosierdaddyO]

I’ve been watching this thread long enough in pure horror at so many physicians' apathy. I genuinely feel sorry for whatever happened in your life that makes you feel like you can only feel empathy for someone you know or that you have to "tough things out" because that's just how life is.
God forbid you or someone you love goes through a trauma that demands the grace of others around you. The people who share your position won’t be the ones to support you. And guess what, we will. Because we don’t have to know anything about your past, your dehumanizing comments, or really anything about you to feel like your life is valuable. We won't even blame you in the trauma. And that’s because our compassion is not contingent upon if we have a relationship with you or if we deem you “deserving” of compassion.

So before someone comes at me about my "tone" or the fact that I'm a new user: no, I do not know her. No, I do not have to know her.

People have empathy for her in the sense that she thought this was the only way out. I am a firm believer that suicide is a cowards move, it only leaves those that you love behind to foot the emotional turmoil... you’re getting your i’s and t’s mixed up. People can have sorrow and empathy for a young life needlessly lost.... but the fact remains that the match isn’t what killed her, and her sadly passing shouldn’t be a reason to change the match!!!

It’s not mutually exclusive that we can feel said for the passing of someone... and also have the feeling that the match is not what killed her or the match should change. #justfacts

 

[EtomidateAndSux]

Making six figures which is more than 90% of Americans will make and getting on with your life. That’s what type of future you have.

OK, but where? This seems like more hand-waving. Can you please link some real-world examples of docs in this position?

 

[Splenda88]

OK, but where? This seems like more hand-waving. Can you please link some real-world examples of docs in this position?

There are a lot in south FL. My friend works as a GP.

 

[nich2200]

People have empathy for her in the sense that she thought this was the only way out. I am a firm believer that suicide is a cowards move, it only leaves those that you love behind to foot the emotional turmoil... you’re getting your i’s and t’s mixed up. People can have sorrow and empathy for a young life needlessly lost.... but the fact remains that the match isn’t what killed her, and her sadly passing shouldn’t be a reason to change the match!!!

It’s not mutually exclusive that we can feel said for the passing of someone... and also have the feeling that the match is not what killed her or the match should change. #justfacts

My problem was never with the matching process. In fact, nowhere in my post do I mention the matching process. I’m specifically discussing the disgusting lack of empathy that many people, especially you, have displayed when talking about the circumstances surrounding her death. Imagine what that must do to the emotional turmoil you've very astutely pointed out. It's actually you that's getting your i’s and t’s mixed up. #justfacts

 

[anonperson]

Wow. This is one of the most discouraging and tone-deaf threads I've ever read. Who made people here the suicide police? Why do some commenters here think they are qualified to decide whether her reasons for killing herself are good enough? What a shameful way to discuss her life and accomplishments. At the end of the day, she lost her life, and it's because she failed to match three times. We can discuss whether the matching process needs fixing in a manner that doesn't blame her. She isn't the first person (and she will certainly not be the last) who has committed suicide due to psychiatric issues related to his/her medical career. Stop blaming the victim.

Most of the posts show sympathy to her killing herself.

Based on the information on the website, she dealt with the adversity of not getting her specialty choice by killing herself. We don't know all of the details but she obviously wasn't well.

Matching into ortho or EM wasn't going to magically make her better. Residency is full of stress and so is the life of attending.

She got bad advice from whatever medical school admin (which is par for the course) on her specialty choices and career strategy.

 

[anonperson]

I’ve been watching this thread long enough in pure horror at so many physicians' apathy. I genuinely feel sorry for whatever happened in your life that makes you feel like you can only feel empathy for someone you know or that you have to "tough things out" because that's just how life is.

God forbid you or someone you love goes through a trauma that demands the grace of others around you. The people who share your position won’t be the ones to support you. And guess what, we will. Because we don’t have to know anything about your past, your dehumanizing comments, or really anything about you to feel like your life is valuable. We won't even blame you in the trauma. And that’s because our compassion is not contingent upon if we have a relationship with you or if we deem you “deserving” of compassion.

So before someone comes at me about my "tone" or the fact that I'm a new user: no, I do not know her. No, I do not have to know her.

Overdramatic much? Not sure what has been posted would rise to the level of horror inducing.

OP posted that the match situation may have contributed to the suicide which many are questioning.

Most people have expressed some sympathy to her death and situation. There is likely more to her story but she was not well. The normal response to not matching is not killing yourself. I feel bad that she got terrible advice on trying to match ortho and EM with her legal baggage. I want to wish that if she matched into a categorical spot, she would be fine but I don't think that is realistic either.

 

[Mednomad]

Damn, that makes the whole situation even more depressing since she could have entered practice in some capacities and definitely could have matched other specialties

If the issue was here multiple misdemeanors/felony, why was she allowed to enter clinical rotations at Rochester? Why was she allowed to do the prelim year(s)?


If she was acceptable enough for a year's worth of cheap labor, why was she not accepted into EM or FM?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

If the issue was here multiple misdemeanors/felony, why was she allowed to enter clinical rotations at Rochester? Why was she allowed to do the prelim year(s)?


If she was acceptable enough for a year's worth of cheap labor, why was she not accepted into EM or FM?

Because EM is competitive (while transition years are not) and it doesn't appear she tried for FM.

 

[Mednomad]

So you think a person who scored in the 99th percentile on the mcat, would not have had the grades or scores for EM?

Her impact of criminal transgressions should be black or white: either she is fit to practice medicine or she is not. The answer should be completely independent of her academics.


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[Brigade4Radiant]

So you think a person who scored in the 99th percentile on the mcat, would not have had the grades or scores for EM?

Her impact of criminal transgressions should be black or white: either she is fit to practice medicine or she is not. And it should be completely independent of her academics.


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There’s more that goes into a field than grades and scores. Emergency is competitive and not everyone who goes into emergency medicine doctor had the best scores.

She was able to practice prelim surgery because it’s less competitive. Emergency is pretty competitive for US MD medical students with two SLOEs. Being an ortho candidate that didn’t match applying to EM without traditional SLOEs, so it makes it that much harder.

 

[deleted480308]

So you think a person who scored in the 99th percentile on the mcat, would not have had the grades or scores for EM?

Her impact of criminal transgressions should be black or white: either she is fit to practice medicine or she is not. The answer should be completely independent of her academics.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That’s not at all how the field is narrowed