unsuccessful postbac

[SHINYBRAIN]

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I am afraid to post questions on this forum often I get mean responses, but there are some very helpful people on this site as well, who understands other people's situation. So I decided to post my question. This forum has definitely been extremely helpful for me.
Ok so I graduated with a 2.6 GPA in Psychology, C in Chem 1 and 2, F in Organic1,D in Physics1, F in Cell Biology, D in Analytical Chem from an ivy league school. Currently doing a post bac, took Physics and Chem and made B. I am taking more science classes next semester. My question is how does a Postbac gpa of 3.0 look after such bad undergrad gpa? I will be applying to D.O schools in Fall 2012 but feel I am not comeptitive enough. i am trying to decide what I should do after my postbac. I don't know if I have a chance at good master's program, I was thinking of Georgetown's SMP.But not sure if I will get in.

 

[FutureDrB]

I am afraid to post questions on this forum often I get mean responses, but there are some very helpful people on this site as well, who understands other people's situation. So I decided to post my question. This forum has definitely been extremely helpful for me.

Ok so I graduated with a 2.6 GPA in Psychology, C in Chem 1 and 2, F in Organic1,D in Physics1, F in Cell Biology, D in Analytical Chem from an ivy league school. Currently doing a post bac, took Physics and Chem and made B. I am taking more science classes next semester. My question is how does a Postbac gpa of 3.0 look after such bad undergrad gpa? I will be applying to D.O schools in Fall 2012 but feel I am not comeptitive enough. i am trying to decide what I should do after my postbac. I don't know if I have a chance at good master's program, I was thinking of Georgetown's SMP.But not sure if I will get in.

Yeah, terminal cancer looks better than those initial pre-req grades.

You said you received B's in Physics and Chem... Are you only 2 classes into your post-bac? If so, you can still rock on the rest of your courses and be fine.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

OP, stay out of the pre-allo forum. Most of the non-trads and pre-osteo people are pretty decent. We may be frank, but generally not snide or mean...

Anyway, 3.0 ain't gonna cut it. I would say 3.5 MINIMUM to even be considered. Preferably a 3.8. You have a long hard road ahead of you, and that means pulling that 2.6 way up. After your PB work, start retaking courses that you have a C or less in, the AACOMAS gpa will calculate the new grade, not the old. This could be a big help to you... Additionally, B's aren't terrible, but you need to have more As than Bs... Start meeting with the profs and tutors and see about getting those grades up...

Don't give up, just figure out what works!! Best of luck!

 

[dbizzy]

Before you begin your next semester of PB work, figure out what you did wrong during your undergrad, whether it's misplaced priorities, distractions, or whatever. Chances are, you still haven't purged your life of those things yet, which is why you're only getting a 3.0. You need to make some lifestyle changes starting next semester, because a post-bacc of 3.0 won't cut it.

Also, you want more than one year of PB work to dig you out of the hole you're in. Retake every class you mentioned in your post, and aim for nothing less than an A. Remember that SMP programs generally need 3.0+ cgpa, and unlike AACOMAS, they average your grades.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

OP, stay out of the pre-allo forum. Most of the non-trads and pre-osteo people are pretty decent. We may be frank, but generally not snide or mean...

Anyway, 3.0 ain't gonna cut it. I would say 3.5 MINIMUM to even be considered. Preferably a 3.8. You have a long hard road ahead of you, and that means pulling that 2.6 way up. After your PB work, start retaking courses that you have a C or less in, the AACOMAS gpa will calculate the new grade, not the old. This could be a big help to you... Additionally, B's aren't terrible, but you need to have more As than Bs... Start meeting with the profs and tutors and see about getting those grades up...

Don't give up, just figure out what works!! Best of luck!

I agree, you're going to have to do very well to redeem yourself. Do everything and anything it takes to bring your gpa up to a competitive level ~ a 3.5. Also genuinely consider re-enrolling in your old school or at a CC and retaking classes that you also did badly in during your undergraduate. If you retake any F's and D's in your non-science courses your Cgpa will potentially skyrocket.

I would also say that doing the Gtown SMP isn't going to be a good idea. It's not going to be cheap, it's not going to save you from your below cutoff cgpa, and overall unless you're interested in MD schools + have a high ( 30+) mcat score you shouldn't be doing it. Overall I think you should do well in your post-bacc and retake a few courses at a CC and apply broadly to DO schools.

 

[AlabamaPop]

I am afraid to post questions on this forum often I get mean responses, but there are some very helpful people on this site as well, who understands other people's situation. So I decided to post my question. This forum has definitely been extremely helpful for me.

Ok so I graduated with a 2.6 GPA in Psychology, C in Chem 1 and 2, F in Organic1,D in Physics1, F in Cell Biology, D in Analytical Chem from an ivy league school. Currently doing a post bac, took Physics and Chem and made B. I am taking more science classes next semester. My question is how does a Postbac gpa of 3.0 look after such bad undergrad gpa? I will be applying to D.O schools in Fall 2012 but feel I am not comeptitive enough. i am trying to decide what I should do after my postbac. I don't know if I have a chance at good master's program, I was thinking of Georgetown's SMP.But not sure if I will get in.

Pre-Allo's are usually more condescending and cut throat (I learned my lesson from 1st-hand experience) and I also recommend staying away.

I'm not gonna be Paula Abdul who will sugarcoat, nor will I be Simon Cowell and degrade you. Those are bad original grades, but that's why DO schools have a retake policy. They want you to retake those courses, but also want to look at your application as a whole. This is my recommendation:

1. Retake every D class or below. It's a must. If you get B's fine. But you MUST have a few A's to show real redeeming effort, even if it means quitting your part time job, living off loans, or what have you.
2. Take NEW upper level courses, and accept nothing less than a B+ as a worse case scenario.
3. Work on your extracurriculars (hospital, shadowing DO, community service, show leadership). Ensure that every other element of your application is strong.
4. Enroll in a 1 year master's program that is catered for premeds who want to enhance their application. A Postbacc GPA of 3.0 is weak, especially if you're not counting the poor grades in the mix. As they said, 3.4+ is your goal.
5. Apply early, it is CRITICALLLLLL to be the first application on their desk.

Realize that it is a LONG road to make up for your mistakes. Medical school will tell you that out of the 3,000 applications they receive, you're NOT the only one who had a bad record, who took ALL the necessary steps, no matter if it took them another 3-4 years to redeem. If you really want this, work for it, and the reward you will get will be so much greater.

Lastly, if you take all the correct steps (hardcore studying, more dedication in school, better focus, sleepless nights), even more so when taking a medical master's/SMP program and you find yourself struggling, then at that point, and only then, will I recommend you to reconsider your goals. At this point, don't let anyone doubt your abilities because who ever applied to medical school with an original tarnished record, and still were successful, are perfect examples that if they can do it, so can you.

 

[DrTroll]

I agree with the people above, the road to med school is likely to be long and hard, but don't give up, if you put your mind to it and be determined, there's most likely a school willing to give you a shot.

If you have time, I recommend reading up Noshie's MdApps and her posts. She has low GPA (3.0) and MCAT (4 retakes), and end up in her top choice DO school, she documented her experience in great detail. In my opinion, it can provide much insight into your situation.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

and OP, read the low GPA success stories 😉 It's helpful, just keep at it, and remember, med school isn't for mediocre students, it's for excellent students, so show them that you can be an excellent student 🙂

 

[MedPR]

Looks bad, but retake the classes you got a C+ or worse in starting with the most recent. It will get your GPA up and then you'll have to be able to explain why your post-bacc wasn't great the first time.

 

[willen101383]

OP I was in your shoes...2.45 undergrad to 3.78 in my post bacc masters program, ended up being successful in getting in. 3.0 is too low. This is really your last chance more or less and you NEED to kill it grades wise. Do WHATEVER you possibly can to get that GPA up.

I had a 2.9 app GPA after my post bacc and 75 credits of almost all As. Got 3 acceptances.

I did a 2 year traditional masters in forensics at Drexel. They have a bunch of post bacc programs that are more likely to fit what you need right now. Georgetown SMP is unfortunately going to be too competitive for you most likely. The year I applied to med school I applied to a few SMPs just in case. Ended up getting those 3 acceptances, but a few months later georgetown SMP rejected me LOL. Good enough to get into real life med school, just not the Gtown SMP.


PM me with any questions....been in your shoes!

 

[Goro]

At our school, a straight 3.0 in our post-bac program will get you an acceptance to our school. if I saw someone do the same thing, at, say, Drexel, the overall GPA probably wouldn't suffice for us, but I think with a good MCAT and ECs, you'd get accepted somewhere.
So, finances notwithstanding, if the scenario plays out as above, I suggest that you apply broadly to the DO schools.

I am afraid to post questions on this forum often I get mean responses, but there are some very helpful people on this site as well, who understands other people's situation. So I decided to post my question. This forum has definitely been extremely helpful for me.

Ok so I graduated with a 2.6 GPA in Psychology, C in Chem 1 and 2, F in Organic1,D in Physics1, F in Cell Biology, D in Analytical Chem from an ivy league school. Currently doing a post bac, took Physics and Chem and made B. I am taking more science classes next semester. My question is how does a Postbac gpa of 3.0 look after such bad undergrad gpa? I will be applying to D.O schools in Fall 2012 but feel I am not comeptitive enough. i am trying to decide what I should do after my postbac. I don't know if I have a chance at good master's program, I was thinking of Georgetown's SMP.But not sure if I will get in.

 

[AlabamaPop]

At our school, a straight 3.0 in our post-bac program will get you an acceptance to our school. if I saw someone do the same thing, at, say, Drexel, the overall GPA probably wouldn't suffice for us, but I think with a good MCAT and ECs, you'd get accepted somewhere.
So, finances notwithstanding, if the scenario plays out as above, I suggest that you apply broadly to the DO schools.

Hmmm....3.0GPA Postbacc-med school acceptance? I know LECOM has a program just like that....

 

[SLC]

I'm here to tell you that 3.0 in an SMP is nothing to sneeze at. I'm constantly amazed at the sheer amount of material I'm burning through per unit time in Med-school, and I think that earning a B (that's around 80-90%) is an accomplishment. Nothing is difficult, but there's just so much to study that I'm amazed anyone can do it!

It's not uncommon to be tested on 6,000+ PowerPoint slides (delivered in 3 weeks time), and their associated readings. Along with time taken out for OMM and Physical Exam Training. We're in class till 5 most days and trying to really study that amount of material in such a short amount of time is really tough.

OP keep at it. I had a similar GPA when I was accepted, difference being I had no D's or F's. I had a stellar EC portfolio, and great LOR's; I got an acceptance at my first interview, which happened to be my first choice (DO or MD, not that I would be competitive at MD but I guess that's convenient for me). Just fix some of your grades below C, take a few extras and get A's, and go out and show them why they want to accept you.

 

[willen101383]

I'm here to tell you that 3.0 in an SMP is nothing to sneeze at. I'm constantly amazed at the sheer amount of material I'm burning through per unit time in Med-school, and I think that earning a B (that's around 80-90%) is an accomplishment. Nothing is difficult, but there's just so much to study that I'm amazed anyone can do it!

It's not uncommon to be tested on 6,000+ PowerPoint slides (delivered in 3 weeks time), and their associated readings. Along with time taken out for OMM and Physical Exam Training. We're in class till 5 most days and trying to really study that amount of material in such a short amount of time is really tough.

OP keep at it. I had a similar GPA when I was accepted, difference being I had no D's or F's. I had a stellar EC portfolio, and great LOR's; I got an acceptance at my first interview, which happened to be my first choice (DO or MD, not that I would be competitive at MD but I guess that's convenient for me). Just fix some of your grades below C, take a few extras and get A's, and go out and show them why they want to accept you.

Hes not in a SMP hes in a post bacc. Hes taking premed courses looks like....and a 3.0 isnt going to impress anyone given his undergrad performance. A 3.0 in a SMP is a different situation than a 3.0 in a post bacc.

Even in med school our class means m1/m2 have been mid to high 80s

 

[DrWily]

Just to reinterate:

1) Do well from now on. All A's
2) Retake old classes that you got a C or lower in
3) Apply when you are competitive, not when you "want" to
4) No mention of an MCAT? Study like crazy for that.

You took 4 years to get yourself into a huge GPA hole. You can't expect to get out in a year. Take the time to do it right and apply when you are at your best. Medical school isn't going anywhere so take an extra year and avoid the headache of applying too early when you aren't ready.

Also, Georgetown SMP isn't for GPA repair. It really isnt. It's almost as competitive as medical school (or more in ^^ that case). I advise against any SMP unless it has a true linkage if you are open to D.O. schools. It's much cheaper and easier to boost your GPA through retaking classes. Plus if you screw up in an SMP, you're done.

 

[SLC]

So Willen101383, I guess I really do have to quote the post directly above me for people to know what I'm referring to eh?

I know the OP's not in an SMP, but Goro and OncoMD were talking about SMP's and Onco seemed surprised that a 3.0 in an SMP (basically med school) is decent. Heck, you even quoted my entire post, did you miss the part where I advised to retake anything below a C, people don't do that in SMP's, I thought it was pretty clear what I was talking about.

Our class has similar means to yours, and mid 80's is pretty damn close to a 3.0 is it not? If someone can make 3.0 in med school, they'll be just fine and graduate as a physician. That's a pretty comfortable passing score. Sure it's not radiology level performance, but said person clearly has the intelligence to pass medical school if they can make a 3.0 in the course work.

 

[willen101383]

So Willen101383, I guess I really do have to quote the post directly above me for people to know what I'm referring to eh?

I know the OP's not in an SMP, but Goro and OncoMD were talking about SMP's and Onco seemed surprised that a 3.0 in an SMP (basically med school) is decent. Heck, you even quoted my entire post, did you miss the part where I advised to retake anything below a C, people don't do that in SMP's, I thought it was pretty clear what I was talking about.

Our class has similar means to yours, and mid 80's is pretty damn close to a 3.0 is it not? If someone can make 3.0 in med school, they'll be just fine and graduate as a physician. That's a pretty comfortable passing score. Sure it's not radiology level performance, but said person clearly has the intelligence to pass medical school if they can make a 3.0 in the course work.

No need to be rude...especially since it was unclear what you were talking about. In fact I dont even know what this argument is about. And no I didnt miss where you said retake all your Cs....I just didnt correlate that with meaning hes not in a SMP. Either way a 3.0 in your post bacc classes isnt going to cut it most likely.

And yes a 3.0 in a legit "first year of med school SMP" is pretty good. After m1 our class overall mean was a 87 IIRC...so a 3.0 is still a bit below that but that still shows you can handle the workload.

So regardless of any misunderstanding of your post on my part I think youd agree that a 3.0 in a SMP is a pretty decent grade (although you should obviously be shooting for higher if possible), while a 3.0 taking "ala carte" postbacc classes, or while in a formal post bacc isnt high enough. I think that really sums up this thread.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

Anything less than a 3.0 at most med schools is a bad thing I thought, so wouldn't a 3.0 just BARELY be acceptable?

Anyway, yes OP, post-bacc work is for GPA repair, SMPs are the "I did all the GPA repair I can do, still didn't get in, and need something more" route, and it is the end game... you either rock it and show them you have what it takes, or you're on an island taking the biggest risk of your life...

Still, best of luck 🙂

 

[SLC]

Anything less than a 3.0 at most med schools is a bad thing I thought, so wouldn't a 3.0 just BARELY be acceptable?

70 is minimum passing score at most schools. That's a bit below 3.0 if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

so, less than a 3.0 at lecom gets you kicked out of the leadership roles in clubs because they feel it is borderline performance... Most graduate programs will put you on probation under a 3.0, so I am assuming that a 3.0 isn't great... even if a 2.0 (70) is 'passing'... just what I was thinking...

 

[willen101383]

so, less than a 3.0 at lecom gets you kicked out of the leadership roles in clubs because they feel it is borderline performance... Most graduate programs will put you on probation under a 3.0, so I am assuming that a 3.0 isn't great... even if a 2.0 (70) is 'passing'... just what I was thinking...

Our passing can be 70, 65, and has been low as 60 if the performance on the exam was low enough across the whole class.

People routinely get below 80s on exams and are fine. Although all my other classes are mid to high 80s, I did get a 78 in GI and a 76 in our cell and molecular basis of medicine block last year.

I put in the same level of work in grad school and easily was getting 90+ on every exam. Its just the nature of how med school is. An 80 is usually a high pass in most schools.

My experience with med school exams has been that it is fairly easy to pass exams with minimal studying. You need to put in quite a bit more to break 80, to break 90 the amount of work you need to put in is something I am not willing to put in usually. I did break 90 a few times last year on exams but I absolutely killed myself to get that. In other words the exams are setup to make the amount of work you need to put in exponentially harder as you go from merely passing to 90+.

 

[Postal]

I was thinking of Georgetown's SMP.But not sure if I will get in.

Don't waste time and money with an expensive SMP. Do what people suggested here.

 

[GlimmerGlass]

I think for you the MCAT score is going to become very important. Of course the MCAT is important for all applicants but if you can score very well on it then that will show you know your sciences and that perhaps your grades do not fully reflect your potential.

I know people are telling you not to do an SMP but you may consider enrolling in a postbacc/SMP program that is linked to a DO school. I know a few people who did a traditional postbacc program with no linkage and did not get into med school and then spent another year doing another postbacc at a program with linkage to a DO school and were pre-accepted. Meaning if they maintained above a certain GPA in the program (3.5 comes to mind) then they were automatically accepted to the next year's med school class.

Also, I cannot stress enough the importance of quality long-term EC's that are broadly based and not just centered on medicine.

 

[willen101383]

I think for you the MCAT score is going to become very important. Of course the MCAT is important for all applicants but if you can score very well on it then that will show you know your sciences and that perhaps your grades do not fully reflect your potential.

I know people are telling you not to do an SMP but you may consider enrolling in a postbacc/SMP program that is linked to a DO school. I know a few people who did a traditional postbacc program with no linkage and did not get into med school and then spent another year doing another postbacc at a program with linkage to a DO school and were pre-accepted. Meaning if they maintained above a certain GPA in the program (3.5 comes to mind) then they were automatically accepted to the next year's med school class.

Also, I cannot stress enough the importance of quality long-term EC's that are broadly based and not just centered on medicine.

Care to specify which programs you claim give automatic acceptance to people with above a 3.5? I have never heard of this before. The closest thing I have heard is getting a preferential interview if you are above X GPA. The biomed program at pcom doesnt have automatic admission, nor does the IMS program at drexel (or any of the drexel post baccs...IMS is the actual SMP).

But I tend to agree with you. It is definitely better to be at a program with some sort of connection. My post bacc masters wasnt attached to a med school per se (I went through the drexel forensic science masters program)...and I had many many people tell me in interviews how respected the programs at Drexel are regionally. The problem is that most of the ACTUAL SMPs just arent for people in OPs situation. They are for people who are already ready to get accepted...and just didnt for whatever reason. The admissions are really tough for those programs, same with the "connected" post baccs. Granted I had probably one of the worst undergrad GPAs SDN has ever seen, I got rejected from every single post bacc (except drexel), and I applied to like 30 programs.

My program was sort of split into 2 groups: the people who wanted to be forensic professionals and the people who wanted to get into med school. Every single one of us save for 1 was eventually accepted. Cant speak highly enough about the Drexel programs...my program literally "saved my life."

 

[aslan]

I know that for many schools anything less than a C (C- or below) counts a failing grade and will not be counted to ward medical school. So any class you got a C-, D, or F in will NEED to me retaken from the same school (so that AACOMAS will replace the grade) or it will not count as being on your transcript- all it will do is hurt your GPA. Good luck, it will be hard work, but if it's your dream then don't let people keep you down!

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

I remember going through the listings and finding linkages that had guaranteed spots for people with specific stats. If you had a x.xx GPA and xx MCAT you were guaranteed a spot, not just an interview... I will look into it, since I have nothing better to do (no really, I don't, not being sarcastic)

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

http://www.thecommonwealthmedical.com/mbs

http://www.goucher.edu/x15893.xml

I think LECOM and Touro may have guaranteed spots as well... I didn't go through the whole list, but those are two I remember from previous searching

 

[willen101383]

http://www.thecommonwealthmedical.com/mbs

http://www.goucher.edu/x15893.xml

I think LECOM and Touro may have guaranteed spots as well... I didn't go through the whole list, but those are two I remember from previous searching

Nice thats interesting. Commonwealth wasnt even a school yet when I was going through my post bacc!

 

[willen101383]

I know that for many schools anything less than a C (C- or below) counts a failing grade and will not be counted to ward medical school. So any class you got a C-, D, or F in will NEED to me retaken from the same school (so that AACOMAS will replace the grade) or it will not count as being on your transcript- all it will do is hurt your GPA. Good luck, it will be hard work, but if it's your dream then don't let people keep you down!

The funny thing is I had C-s(or lower) in: orgo 2, gen chem 2, physics 2, calc 1, stats, cell bio. Never retook a single one of these courses and it was never a problem for me at the multiple schools that I got acceptances to.

Obviously not advocating not retaking C-s....but at least when I applied it wasnt a hard and fast thing (things likely have changed since the app rate is so much higher now)

 

[willen101383]

I remember going through the listings and finding linkages that had guaranteed spots for people with specific stats. If you had a x.xx GPA and xx MCAT you were guaranteed a spot, not just an interview... I will look into it, since I have nothing better to do (no really, I don't, not being sarcastic)

Feel free to switch with me. Im sitting here watching neuro lectures. At least its my last real preclinical class! Weee

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

well I was fired from my clinical lab job because my face flushed, and I WOULD GLADLY TRADE!!! Because it would mean I'm already 2 yrs in!

Oh, and I touched a guy on the arm and said dear, so I sexually harassed him... no, I'm not kidding...

 

[YiSheng]

I know that for many schools anything less than a C (C- or below) counts a failing grade and will not be counted to ward medical school. So any class you got a C-, D, or F in will NEED to me retaken from the same school (so that AACOMAS will replace the grade) or it will not count as being on your transcript- all it will do is hurt your GPA. Good luck, it will be hard work, but if it's your dream then don't let people keep you down!

It doesn't have to be in the same school. I got a C- in the first quarter of Gen Chem, and I retook it at a CC. You just need to make sure that both classes are the same and that the retake is equal or more in units. Also, if the previous class have a lab...the retake have to have a lab too. Oh, one more thing: Retaking 2 semesters (1 year) doesn't replace 3 quarters (1 year). 1 semester replaces 1 semester/quarter only.

 

[willen101383]

well I was fired from my clinical lab job because my face flushed, and I WOULD GLADLY TRADE!!! Because it would mean I'm already 2 yrs in!

Oh, and I touched a guy on the arm and said dear, so I sexually harassed him... no, I'm not kidding...

Phleb? I was a phlebotomist for 3 years as an undergrad and got my MT ASCP and work as a medical technologist for 5 years before med school (and still work per diem). Although I am trained as a generalist, Blood Bank is my current specialty. Make sure you put the patient's DOB on your pink top AND sign the tube 😀.

Try to get back in the lab at another place...it gave me SO much experience which has been totally valuable for me in med school.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

I worked in biotech, not a clinical setting, I got 6 weeks in a clinical lab doing both tests and phleb work, can't use the job on a resume, sooo here I sit until school starts... and we totally derailed this thread, sorry OP!

 

[costales]

http://www.thecommonwealthmedical.com/mbs

http://www.goucher.edu/x15893.xml

I think LECOM and Touro may have guaranteed spots as well... I didn't go through the whole list, but those are two I remember from previous searching

Well, the Goucher webpage says people can "apply early" to the linkage schools, but says nothing about automatic acceptance. Also, Commonwealth is currently on LCME probation because they may not have enough money to stay afloat (http://citizensvoice.com/news/commonwealth-medical-college-now-on-probation-1.1162002).

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

Those things may be true, but Goucher also says the schools hold space for qualified applicants, it doesn't say that you will get an interview, the implication is that you will be accepted... The point is that they exist...

 

[SHINYBRAIN]

Thanks everyone for all the responses! These are very helpful! I did not know a lot of the things that you all mentioned. I really appreciate it.
I have made changes to my study schedule, and trying not to repeat the mistakes I made last semester. I am also rethinking if applying to Georgetown SMP is a good idea. The problem with most SMP and other programs, most of their deadline is in May, and they require MCAT or GRE score. I don't plan on taking my MCAT till the end of July. Are there any SMP programs you guys know that don't require MCAT or GRE?

Another question, I wanted to ask. I have not retaken my Gen Chem1 and 2, as I am planning to take Biochem 1 and 2. Should I rather retake Gen Chem1 and 2, instead of taking Biochems?

 

[yellowperil]

Thanks everyone for all the responses! These are very helpful! I did not know a lot of the things that you all mentioned. I really appreciate it.
I have made changes to my study schedule, and trying not to repeat the mistakes I made last semester. I am also rethinking if applying to Georgetown SMP is a good idea. The problem with most SMP and other programs, most of their deadline is in May, and they require MCAT or GRE score. I don't plan on taking my MCAT till the end of July. Are there any SMP programs you guys know that don't require MCAT or GRE?

Another question, I wanted to ask. I have not retaken my Gen Chem1 and 2, as I am planning to take Biochem 1 and 2. Should I rather retake Gen Chem1 and 2, instead of taking Biochems?

I would retake gen chem 1 and 2 since those courses are easier than biochemistry.

 

[Dr SunDai]

Thanks everyone for all the responses! These are very helpful! I did not know a lot of the things that you all mentioned. I really appreciate it.
I have made changes to my study schedule, and trying not to repeat the mistakes I made last semester. I am also rethinking if applying to Georgetown SMP is a good idea. The problem with most SMP and other programs, most of their deadline is in May, and they require MCAT or GRE score. I don't plan on taking my MCAT till the end of July. Are there any SMP programs you guys know that don't require MCAT or GRE?

Another question, I wanted to ask. I have not retaken my Gen Chem1 and 2, as I am planning to take Biochem 1 and 2. Should I rather retake Gen Chem1 and 2, instead of taking Biochems?

Yes, retake the Gen Chem 1 & 2, as well as any other class you need to fix prioir to moving on to higher level courses.

http://services.aamc.org/postbac/

Use the above link to search for postbac programs/SMPs
I believe Temple, doesn't require the MCAT prior to enrolling, and their linkage program requires a 3.5+ AND 30+MCAT with no section lower than 8 to be granted automatic acceptance to their MD program

 

[TriagePreMed]

People here are much nicer than I'll ever be. I'll give it to you straight: You have a 2.6 GPA with a destroyed BCPM. Your retake gets you at best a B? Honestly, unless this next semester you push a 3.7+ GPA, I think you're done for. Forget an MD SMP completely. You don't have what it takes to get into one and much less what it takes to succeed in one right now.

 

[jinobi]

I believe Temple, doesn't require the MCAT prior to enrolling, and their linkage program requires a 3.5+ AND 30+MCAT with no section lower than 8 to be granted automatic acceptance to their MD program

Don't give false hope. Temple's ACMS program is nearly as competitive as applying to medical school (8% interview rate). Their applicants have sGPA 3.36 and cGPA 3.49. If your post-bac work is still just 3.0GPA, and compound that with your low undergrad science grades...

Like everyone else here has said: keep retaking your previous classes in a post-bac program rather than a SMP. Get a high 30+ on your MCAT (easier said than done), and apply broadly to DO schools.

Looks like you're going to have to retake GChem, you're going to need every GPA boost you can get at this point. Make sure to get As. Don't mess up your second (third?) chance at redemption.

 

[ManBroDude]

I've retaken 34 credits postbacc and I sure as hell made sure to get a 4.0 the whole time. You've got to do better than B's, my friend. For every one of you, there's 9 other applicants with better grades than you; how are you going to measure up?

 

[mishaS]

Pre-Allo's are usually more condescending and cut throat (I learned my lesson from 1st-hand experience) and I also recommend staying away.

This sounds right, well the cutthroat part anyways. Maybe it's because I'm an allo student, but my first thought was that the OP may not be cut out for medical school. While I think it's admirable to be dedicated, if the OP can't handle the basic sciences, then the OP won't be able to handle medical school, should they even get in. It's harsh, but some people aren't meant to be doctors.

 

[mishaS]

I've retaken 34 credits postbacc and I sure as hell made sure to get a 4.0 the whole time. You've got to do better than B's, my friend. For every one of you, there's 9 other applicants with better grades than you; how are you going to measure up?

This what I don't like about the DO admissions policy. Getting an A after you got a C takes a lot less effort than getting an A the first time around, let alone the third. Forgetting that the schools are effectively nullifying the accomplishments of many hard working students who did do well without having to retake a class, it doesn't seem prudent to allow students to do this, because you are supposed to pass your classes the first time around in medical school.

 

[flyhi]

This what I don't like about the DO admissions policy. Getting an A after you got a C takes a lot less effort than getting an A the first time around, let alone the third. Forgetting that the schools are effectively nullifying the accomplishments of many hard working students who did do well without having to retake a class, it doesn't seem prudent to allow students to do this, because you are supposed to pass your classes the first time around in medical school.

Who's to say that the students who get an A first time around aren't held in higher regard than a retake? It's not nullifying anything, it's giving some students a second chance realizing there are many factors for not having done well the first time. If you got A's first time around, congrats and I would imagine you would do just fine in the admissions process. No need to be a hater.

 

[mishaS]

Who's to say that the students who get an A first time around aren't held in higher regard than a retake? It's not nullifying anything, it's giving some students a second chance realizing there are many factors for not having done well the first time. If you got A's first time around, congrats and I would imagine you would do just fine in the admissions process. No need to be a hater.

This isn't about being a hater, it's about bad admissions policy. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but DO admissions policy has it so that retaking a class allows you to replace your grade for the purposes of GPA calculations. It isn't an opinion that getting a 90% when you come into a class knowing 70% of the material already, allowing you to focus on the rest, is a great deal easier than getting that 90% from scratch. Students bust their asses to ace a class the first time around, and it's crap that someone can basically turn a semester length class into a two semester length class via a retake, get that same grade, and have it weighed equally. As for second chances, a lot of people do masters programs to show that they improved their study habits, that's fine, and that actually shows an improvement, unlike retaking classes.

 

[DrWily]

This isn't about being a hater, it's about bad admissions policy. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but DO admissions policy has it so that retaking a class allows you to replace your grade for the purposes of GPA calculations. It isn't an opinion that getting a 90% when you come into a class knowing 70% of the material already, allowing you to focus on the rest, is a great deal easier than getting that 90% from scratch. Students bust their asses to ace a class the first time around, and it's crap that someone can basically turn a semester length class into a two semester length class via a retake, get that same grade, and have it weighed equally. As for second chances, a lot of people do masters programs to show that they improved their study habits, that's fine, and that actually shows an improvement, unlike retaking classes.

You're an allo student. Why do you even care about DO admissions policies?

So someone like me who was obviously not mature and serious enough during my 1st two years in college (where all the pre-reqs are), but turned it around and received 3.5-4.0 GPA during my last two years (upper division science courses) should not be allowed to retake classes to boost my GPA? It's obvious that I can handle difficult sciences (A's) due to my major being Chemistry. I had a full course load including labs AND research on top of that. Should I be so punished by my mistakes during my 1st two years to bar me from getting into medical school? Getting a 30+ on my MCAT also shows that I have enough understanding of these pre-reqs to do reasonably well on Medical College Admissions Test. Without replacement grade policy, my sGPA would be around 2.6 due to multiple Cs and lower during the first two years. I should be forced to pay $50,000 for a master's program when I have no desire to pursue a master's degree, only to "demonstrate" my worthiness for Medical School?

Not everyone who gets a C the first time is due to intellectual deficiency. Outside circumstances play a role in determining grades. However, I will agree that there is a point when too much is too much. But that point is not for me or you to decide. I might also add that the competitive nature of my top 10 public university probably hurts my GPA more than going to a no-name state school.. and yet the numbers are probably still weighed the same.

 

[TwinsFan]

This isn't about being a hater, it's about bad admissions policy. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but DO admissions policy has it so that retaking a class allows you to replace your grade for the purposes of GPA calculations. It isn't an opinion that getting a 90% when you come into a class knowing 70% of the material already, allowing you to focus on the rest, is a great deal easier than getting that 90% from scratch. Students bust their asses to ace a class the first time around, and it's crap that someone can basically turn a semester length class into a two semester length class via a retake, get that same grade, and have it weighed equally. As for second chances, a lot of people do masters programs to show that they improved their study habits, that's fine, and that actually shows an improvement, unlike retaking classes.

How about if you retake a class 1 year later, how about 5 years later, or even 10? Would there still be a significant advantage to having taken the class before?

Many applicants who take advantage of this haven't taken the course in a long time and are returning students. If you're willing to put in the work it offers a way to become an attractive candidate even if you were a poor student in the past. Also, adcoms do take retakes into account and it does matter if you took 2 recent tries to get an A in Ochem versus 1 retake of an old D in a history class. What classes are being retaken and when they were taken matter. That said, if someone is willing to put in the work and retake a ton of old classes and succeed in a lot of science-based new ones they have a shot at redemption.

It makes some sense to have a filter for relevant coursework to allow highly capable students with a past to be noticed:

Hypothetical Example:

2.4 old gpa (10 yrs ago) - 4.0 new gpa (60 cr, half retakes) / 33 MCAT
ACCOMAS - 3.3+ cgpa / 3.5+ sgpa - competitive candidate with MCAT
AMCAS - 2.9 cgpa / 3.2 sgpa - probably screened out at most schools, marginal candidate


The above example is kind of extreme, this is a 4.0/33 student, better than most applicants, but isn't seen that way because of grades from the distant past. In AMCAS this is in many cases an impossible situation, schools will disqualify excellent students for ancient mistakes. The ACCOMAS system gives these people an opportunity to not be automatically filtered out. The opposite is true as well, some students had a great gpa in an easy school/major college then do a postbacc later an score lower in a small dose of science prereqs. Should they be seen as their high gpa when they are barely cutting it in the present with relevant coursework?

A simpler system may be to place most of the weight on the last 60-90 credits, this could allow trads and nontrads a more level playing field.

 

[flyhi]

This isn't about being a hater, it's about bad admissions policy. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but DO admissions policy has it so that retaking a class allows you to replace your grade for the purposes of GPA calculations. It isn't an opinion that getting a 90% when you come into a class knowing 70% of the material already, allowing you to focus on the rest, is a great deal easier than getting that 90% from scratch. Students bust their asses to ace a class the first time around, and it's crap that someone can basically turn a semester length class into a two semester length class via a retake, get that same grade, and have it weighed equally. As for second chances, a lot of people do masters programs to show that they improved their study habits, that's fine, and that actually shows an improvement, unlike retaking classes.

Seriously, who cares? 🙄 It's the policy and it seems to be working just fine. Master's programs are different than undergrad. Getting less than a 3.0 is almost impossible, which is why adcoms don't put as much stress on them as uGPA. And yes, you clearly are a hater. 👎

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

How about if you retake a class 1 year later, how about 5 years later, or even 10? Would there still be a significant advantage to having taken the class before?

Many applicants who take advantage of this haven't taken the course in a long time and are returning students. If you're willing to put in the work it offers a way to become an attractive candidate even if you were a poor student in the past. Also, adcoms do take retakes into account and it does matter if you took 2 recent tries to get an A in Ochem versus 1 retake of an old D in a history class. What classes are being retaken and when they were taken matter. That said, if someone is willing to put in the work and retake a ton of old classes and succeed in a lot of science-based new ones they have a shot at redemption.

It makes some sense to have a filter for relevant coursework to allow highly capable students with a past to be noticed:

Hypothetical Example:

2.4 old gpa (10 yrs ago) - 4.0 new gpa (60 cr, half retakes) / 33 MCAT
ACCOMAS - 3.3+ cgpa / 3.5+ sgpa - competitive candidate with MCAT
AMCAS - 2.9 cgpa / 3.2 sgpa - probably screened out at most schools, marginal candidate


The above example is kind of extreme, this is a 4.0/33 student, better than most applicants, but isn't seen that way because of grades from the distant past. In AMCAS this is in many cases an impossible situation, schools will disqualify excellent students for ancient mistakes. The ACCOMAS system gives these people an opportunity to not be automatically filtered out. The opposite is true as well, some students had a great gpa in an easy school/major college then do a postbacc later an score lower in a small dose of science prereqs. Should they be seen as their high gpa when they are barely cutting it in the present with relevant coursework?

A simpler system may be to place most of the weight on the last 60-90 credits, this could allow trads and nontrads a more level playing field.

Though there are many cases of situations like this present on SDN, I don't think this is frequently occurring for entire forgiveness policies to be written in the AMCAS. But even in that situation he still has the option of doing an SMP for total forgiveness of his past grades.
The fact is that there are plenty of MD-applicants with perfect 4.0's to fill the roasters on all the medical schools. They understand he made a mistake, but there are plenty of pre-MD students who have never made a mistake.

As much as people are avoiding the answer, it is simple, MD schools have more than enough people to select for perfection. DO schools have a lot less quality applicants and as such there is more leeway and willingness to take in potentially weaker candidates as students. It's never been about forgiveness, it's always been about the overall caliber of applying students. These redeeming students are high caliber applicants who DO schools are more than willing to take in to better their overall class.