Update 4/21/2011 - usaf pilot physician program!

[Eagledoc]

I know that there have been many threads re: Pilot-Physician program in the military and I wanted to let everyone know that the USAF has just released a revised Air Force Instruction (AFI) 11-405, The Pilot-Physician Program. It contains loads of updated information (last one was in Oct 2000) including - PHYSICIAN APPLICATIONS FOR JOINT SPECIALIZED UNDERGRADUATE FLYING TRAINING in attachment 2. For those that aren't familiar with what this means, there is now a way for qualified docs to apply for pilot training and then serve as dual rated dudes! It's very exciting news...

Please review the attached document at your convenience and then let me know if you have any questions. Again, this is a brand new revision to the AFI and contains outstanding information for those interested. On a side note, I was a doc first and then became a pilot and let me tell you, the process was a lot more painful then but it's been definitely worth it! I'm now the only USAF pilot-physician in the F-22A Raptor and things are good!!

Good luck and let me know your questions!

Respectfully,

Bones

DSN - 523-7192, 742-4340
Commercial 850-283-7534, 850-282-4340

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[BOHICA-FIGMO]

Interesting...very different form my USAF days. It seems to me, though, that whoever wrote this either: (a) doesn't understand medical training or (b) doesn't really expect/want too many flight docs applying to the program. I say this because the timelines are nearly impossible to meet given the fact they want 2yrs experience as a flight surgeon and still expect you to be under 30 at the start of UPT.

So let's say you start undergrad at 18 and graduate at 22. Go straight through med school graduating at 26. A year of internship makes 27. Two years of flight surgeon experience makes 29. That leaves a very narrow window to join the program and completely eliminates non-pilot/UAV/CSO prior service guys.

And this doesn't even account for the fact that NONE of these pilot physicians from the new pathway will be (or even could be) board certified unless they are Doogie Howser.

Therefore, I wonder if USAF physicians had any input into this document. If they DID have input, I think it demonstrates how little the Air Force values board certification in it's physicians. Just my $0.02, grain of salt, and all that...👍

 

[AF M4]

If they DID have input, I think it demonstrates how little the Air Force values board certification in it's physicians.

🙄

 

[DeadCactus]

Interesting...very different form my USAF days. It seems to me, though, that whoever wrote this either: (a) doesn't understand medical training or (b) doesn't really expect/want too many flight docs applying to the program. I say this because the timelines are nearly impossible to meet given the fact they want 2yrs experience as a flight surgeon and still expect you to be under 30 at the start of UPT.

So let's say you start undergrad at 18 and graduate at 22. Go straight through med school graduating at 26. A year of internship makes 27. Two years of flight surgeon experience makes 29. That leaves a very narrow window to join the program and completely eliminates non-pilot/UAV/CSO prior service guys.

And this doesn't even account for the fact that NONE of these pilot physicians from the new pathway will be (or even could be) board certified unless they are Doogie Howser.

Therefore, I wonder if USAF physicians had any input into this document. If they DID have input, I think it demonstrates how little the Air Force values board certification in it's physicians. Just my $0.02, grain of salt, and all that...👍

Seems more likely that they just left it in place to avoid dealing with having different age requirements for flight training. Probably just a whole lot easier to approve waivers for the few people who would be coming through a program like this...

 

[Cetane]

Greetings everyone,

This is my first post here, but I've enjoyed the comments so far. I've d/l and read all of 11-405, and I have emailed the special flying assignments folks, but no reply to date.

My question is this:
Does anyone know if the program allows someone like me with a computer science degree, with zero bio/chem/physics a shot at med school? How does it work, if accepted, do I keep my current pay grade while going to school? I have 14 years in, but I plan on staying around till they kick me out so I don't care about ADSC. Do I need to start taking a full load of science classes before acceptance?

And for Bones - how does med school compare to UPT in terms of difficulty?

I have 6 years operation flying KC-135's and preds. I'm only fact finding to see if its even possible before I get my hopes up.

Thank you in advance for any help!

Cheers

 

[Timmons]

Cetane,

I would look at the medical program at USUHS. I'm currently a military pilot, planning to attend next year. I have a similar background to yours, and it did take a few years to prepare myself to compete for medical school. Look into pre-requisites and mcat prep - both proved to be the biggest challenges to meet while serving in the military.

For the remaining posts here, I think the intent of the pilot-physician program is more geared to those who attend medical school after having served many years as a military pilot. I say this because the long training pipeline for doctors pushes up on pilot age requirements, although conceivably possible to meet.

My two cents: I think it would be difficult to remain both a proficient physician and military pilot. I'm planning on only practicing medicine once I stop flying in the Spring.

 

[Racer77]

After seeing this thread I have become very interested in the possibility of being a Pilot-Physician. I have searched and read over most of the previous threads on this topic. What I understand is that it is possible to be a Pilot-Physician with a specialty other than flight surgeon. Does anyone know if this is still true?

I am interested in trauma surgery and would love to be both a trauma surgeon and an Air Force pilot. The problem is that it takes a significant amount of time to become a trauma surgeon. ( 4 years of med school, 5 years GS residency and then a few years in fellowship) I am starting medical school next year and if I do decide on trauma surgery, I would not be fully liscensed until age 35. I have read that the age limit for the pilot program is 30. Would I be able to get a waiver for my age so i could join the Pilot- Physician program?

 

[teacherman84]

After seeing this thread I have become very interested in the possibility of being a Pilot-Physician. I have searched and read over most of the previous threads on this topic. What I understand is that it is possible to be a Pilot-Physician with a specialty other than flight surgeon. Does anyone know if this is still true?

I am interested in trauma surgery and would love to be both a trauma surgeon and an Air Force pilot. The problem is that it takes a significant amount of time to become a trauma surgeon. ( 4 years of med school, 5 years GS residency and then a few years in fellowship) I am starting medical school next year and if I do decide on trauma surgery, I would not be fully liscensed until age 35. I have read that the age limit for the pilot program is 30. Would I be able to get a waiver for my age so i could join the Pilot- Physician program?

Probably not.

Even if you do stick with the trauma surgeon plan and say the AF lets you train straight through for both the residency and fellowship, do you think youre going to want to put all that training on the back burner for a few years while you go learn to fly a plane?

Even if you did, why would the AF send a freshly trained trauma surgeon into a UPT spot?

The thought of being a trauma surgeon sounds awesome as a premed, but odds are it will fade. Likewise, the thought of balancing two very time consuming careers will prob fade too.

 

[Cetane]

Cetane,

I would look at the medical program at USUHS. I'm currently a military pilot, planning to attend next year. I have a similar background to yours, and it did take a few years to prepare myself to compete for medical school. Look into pre-requisites and mcat prep - both proved to be the biggest challenges to meet while serving in the military.

For the remaining posts here, I think the intent of the pilot-physician program is more geared to those who attend medical school after having served many years as a military pilot. I say this because the long training pipeline for doctors pushes up on pilot age requirements, although conceivably possible to meet.

My two cents: I think it would be difficult to remain both a proficient physician and military pilot. I'm planning on only practicing medicine once I stop flying in the Spring.

Thanks for the reply and insight. It appears I have to get back in school to fill out the prerequisites box. As is standard with the AF, nobody knows anything at AFPC. I received a reply from the very department mentioned in 11-405 and they said "not my AOR, but I'll email someone I know".. Standard AF.

Please do post updates here about your experience. I would love to get feedback from someone who has been through UPT and med school to compare the two. Many people talked about how in UPT they spent every waking hour studying and it was hell. I knew I wanted heavies so I didn't put forth that much effort and I thought it wasn't bad at all, so having a baseline to compare will be infinitely more useful.

Congratulations to you, and good luck. I'm glad to see you're making something of yourself 🙂

 

[Cetane]

After seeing this thread I have become very interested in the possibility of being a Pilot-Physician. I have searched and read over most of the previous threads on this topic. What I understand is that it is possible to be a Pilot-Physician with a specialty other than flight surgeon. Does anyone know if this is still true?

I am interested in trauma surgery and would love to be both a trauma surgeon and an Air Force pilot. The problem is that it takes a significant amount of time to become a trauma surgeon. ( 4 years of med school, 5 years GS residency and then a few years in fellowship) I am starting medical school next year and if I do decide on trauma surgery, I would not be fully liscensed until age 35. I have read that the age limit for the pilot program is 30. Would I be able to get a waiver for my age so i could join the Pilot- Physician program?

There can be compromise if you want both: Apply to UPT after your bach is done, get in and fly. Then, pickup where you left off after 3 years flying operationally and cross over. Then you have no constraints on age, and you will be perfectly aligned for continuing on to med school - something I do not have going for me.

Timeline: Getting into UPT takes at least a year from acceptance to the start of school. I applied Dec of 2003 and started jan of 05. UPT is 1 year, FTU and water/land survival will eat up at least 6-8 months. Once you show to your unit, you will have to complete CMR (combat mission readiness) so you can fly in the specific theater your aircraft operates in - estimate 2-3 months for the PCS etc.
In total, 3 years from learning you have a UPT slot, to flying operationally. Tack that onto the 3-4 years required to cross over in 11-405 and you will be in your 30's ready to take on the rest of med school.
I won't discourage you on this board because I've many times had people tell me I couldn't get to where I am today.

When I hear no, I just look for a different door to go through, but thats just me.

 

[Racer77]

Probably not.

Even if you do stick with the trauma surgeon plan and say the AF lets you train straight through for both the residency and fellowship, do you think youre going to want to put all that training on the back burner for a few years while you go learn to fly a plane?

Even if you did, why would the AF send a freshly trained trauma surgeon into a UPT spot?

The thought of being a trauma surgeon sounds awesome as a premed, but odds are it will fade. Likewise, the thought of balancing two very time consuming careers will prob fade too.

Thanks for the reply. I know it does not seem likely that it would be allowed. I would not go through HPSP though. The reason being that it takes longer to go through residency and hopefully be allowed to obtain a fellowship. Also, the military would of not had any expense in my education. After all of my civillian training, I could then speak with them about applying for the program. But since I would have no prior millitary experience, I may have no chance in being accepted into the program.


I know my mind may change on the specialty I want to do. I have spoken with many people about how they have changed their mind. But considereing my background, whatever I choose will most likely be surgically related. So the time it takes to completely finish my training will be around the same as trauma.

You are right about changing my mind, which is why it wouldn't be wise to take the HPSP route to the Pilot-Physician program.

 

[Racer77]

There can be compromise if you want both: Apply to UPT after your bach is done, get in and fly. Then, pickup where you left off after 3 years flying operationally and cross over. Then you have no constraints on age, and you will be perfectly aligned for continuing on to med school - something I do not have going for me.

Timeline: Getting into UPT takes at least a year from acceptance to the start of school. I applied Dec of 2003 and started jan of 05. UPT is 1 year, FTU and water/land survival will eat up at least 6-8 months. Once you show to your unit, you will have to complete CMR (combat mission readiness) so you can fly in the specific theater your aircraft operates in - estimate 2-3 months for the PCS etc.
In total, 3 years from learning you have a UPT slot, to flying operationally. Tack that onto the 3-4 years required to cross over in 11-405 and you will be in your 30's ready to take on the rest of med school.
I won't discourage you on this board because I've many times had people tell me I couldn't get to where I am today.

When I hear no, I just look for a different door to go through, but thats just me.

I very much appreciate your reply and encouragement.

That is not a bad way to go and would be much easier than med school first. I will have to think about that more. Thanks for the info.

I have already been acceptated to the school I have wanted to go to. It is hard to think about postponing that though. I will have to really think about it all.

I do appreciate the encouragement. I have been through more than most to get where I am. Been told by many people that I could not do what I already have accomplished. So I believe as well that if you want to do something, you should work at it and it will happen if it is meant to be.

Good-luck with your plans. I hope they work out for you.

 

[notdeadyet]

I have already been acceptated to the school I have wanted to go to. It is hard to think about postponing that though. I will have to really think about it all.

I do appreciate the encouragement. I have been through more than most to get where I am. Been told by many people that I could not do what I already have accomplished.

I admire and respect your tenacity. That will serve you well in both the military and medicine.

One thing to keep in mind though, is that medical school admissions have been steadily increasing in competitiveness. Look at the average GPAs/MCATs for schools you're interested in today as compared to 4 years ago. They've all gone way up and are likely to continue to do so. I would not have gotten into the medical school I did if I applied today and would have likely been considered a longshot at most U.S. allopathic programs.

Similarly, residencies are getting more and more competitive. Residencies where all you needed was a pulse to get into a middle-of-the-road program (e.g.: Psych, Family, Peds) is getting noticeably more competitive. Uber-competitive specialties are getting more so. This is likely to continue to climb, as allopathic medical schools are increasing enrollments and (more importantly) osteopathic medical schools are popping up at a fast rate while GME slots are not increasing accordingly.

The net of it is that your choices of medical schools and residency options are likely to get smaller with each passing year.

By all means, shoot for the pilot physician program, but I would carefully consider which is ultimately more important to you. If it's medical school and a particular specialty, keep in mind that if you're a less than super-star applicant, know that defering application for a lot of years could put you in a pinch.

Best of luck with your decision and progress...

 

[Racer77]

I admire and respect your tenacity. That will serve you well in both the military and medicine.

One thing to keep in mind though, is that medical school admissions have been steadily increasing in competitiveness. Look at the average GPAs/MCATs for schools you're interested in today as compared to 4 years ago. They've all gone way up and are likely to continue to do so. I would not have gotten into the medical school I did if I applied today and would have likely been considered a longshot at most U.S. allopathic programs.

Similarly, residencies are getting more and more competitive. Residencies where all you needed was a pulse to get into a middle-of-the-road program (e.g.: Psych, Family, Peds) is getting noticeably more competitive. Uber-competitive specialties are getting more so. This is likely to continue to climb, as allopathic medical schools are increasing enrollments and (more importantly) osteopathic medical schools are popping up at a fast rate while GME slots are not increasing accordingly.

The net of it is that your choices of medical schools and residency options are likely to get smaller with each passing year.

By all means, shoot for the pilot physician program, but I would carefully consider which is ultimately more important to you. If it's medical school and a particular specialty, keep in mind that if you're a less than super-star applicant, know that defering application for a lot of years could put you in a pinch.

Best of luck with your decision and progress...

Thank-you notdeadyet.

You make a very good point. I think thats one of the reasons I have a hard time with defering. The application process was not easy by any means. I wasn't really thinking too much about the decreasing residency positions. I am glad you mentioned that.

Thank-you for your advice. I needed to see that.