Updated Kaiser Southern California (2022) thread

[propofabulous]

With the private practice job market on fire recently, how have things changed at the Socal Kaisers to keep up? For one thing, per diems are now making 250/hr. Any improvements for associates and partners?

I hear that comparable private practice jobs in the area are reaching ~$300 hourly rate with no benefits. Is that better than what kaiser partners are making, when you include their benefits? My guess is that initially the private guys have a better compensation, but over time the kaiser guys may win out if they stay long enough, as their benefits, pay, and vacation will continue to increase (whereas private practice compensation has a ceiling and doesn't improve much after making partner).

Lastly, in previous threads some kaiser guys mentioned that the nature of the work at kaiser is easier than private practice. But is it really easier or less stressful to supervise CRNAs than to do your own cases? Sure, you don't have to be confined to a room and you may be able to get more sleep on call, but we've all heard horror stories of needing to put out fires or becoming consent monkeys running around in preop without any time to be present for intubation/extubation.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[ucladoc2b]

I work in a So Cal private practice. I don’t get anywhere near $300/hour.

 

[nimbus]

Few points.

1. Im in PP. One of our younger guys recently left for Kaiser. He said he is taking a pay cut until he becomes a partner there.

2. Another of our mid career guys left for Kaiser but is now bouncing back after a few months.

3. We do some outsourced Kaiser work with Kaiser surgeons. The ones I have encountered (ophtho+bariatrics) have been consistently very good. I do wonder if their CRNAs are also better than average.

 

[Urzuz]

With the private practice job market on fire recently, how have things changed at the Socal Kaisers to keep up? For one thing, per diems are now making 250/hr. Any improvements for associates and partners?

I hear that comparable private practice jobs in the area are reaching $300+ hourly rate with no benefits. To translate that to a salary, working 50 hours per week on average with 8 weeks vacation would net you 660k without benefits. Is that better than what kaiser partners are making, when you include their benefits? My guess is that initially the private guys have a better compensation, but over time the kaiser guys may win out if they stay long enough, as their benefits, pay, and vacation will continue to increase (whereas private practice compensation has a ceiling and doesn't improve much after making partner).

Lastly, in previous threads some kaiser guys mentioned that the nature of the work at kaiser is easier than private practice. But is it really easier or less stressful to supervise CRNAs than to do your own cases? Sure, you don't have to be confined to a room and you may be able to get more sleep on call, but we've all heard horror stories of needing to put out fires or becoming consent monkeys running around in preop to do evals without any time to be present for intubation/extubation. Thoughts?

Whatever minimal compensation differences there may be are nothing compared to the need sacrifice your professional dignity by working with CRNAs. The whole argument that many people across the country have is that ACT models are the only ones around them, and they are unable to find a physician only group.

If you work for Kaiser in Southern California, where physician only practices are a dime a dozen, you are selling your soul and selling out your profession for whatever the perceived advantages are (predictable hours, pension, less time in OR, etc).

 

[ucladoc2b]

Few points.

1. Im in PP. One of our younger guys recently left for Kaiser. He said he is taking a pay cut until he becomes a partner there.

2. Another of our mid career guys left for Kaiser but is now bouncing back after a few months.

3. We do some outsourced Kaiser work with Kaiser surgeons. The ones I have encountered (ophtho+bariatrics) have been consistently very good. I do wonder if their CRNAs are also better than average.

I agree. We have a few Kaiser surgeons we work with. They are good.

 

[ucladoc2b]

Out of curiosity, what kind of offers have people been getting recently?

 

[Maz777]

Less stressful to work with CRNAs? Not sure how that is possible. Control your own destiny or just hope someone else doesn't screw up? Bailing out CRNAs gets old after a while. It's only less stressful if you don't care what happens in a room that you aren't present in.

 

[deleted1147063]

Avoid working with midlevels, or even nurses, whose continuous employment doesn't depend at all on you.

 

[propofabulous]

Few points.

1. Im in PP. One of our younger guys recently left for Kaiser. He said he is taking a pay cut until he becomes a partner there.

2. Another of our mid career guys left for Kaiser but is now bouncing back after a few months.

3. We do some outsourced Kaiser work with Kaiser surgeons. The ones I have encountered (ophtho+bariatrics) have been consistently very good. I do wonder if their CRNAs are also better than average.

1. What was the reason for leaving? In what way did he perceive kaiser to be better than private practice?

2. Why did your guy come back after a few months?

 

[propofabulous]

Less stressful to work with CRNAs? Not sure how that is possible. Control your own destiny or just hope someone else doesn't screw up? Bailing out CRNAs gets old after a while. It's only less stressful if you don't care what happens in a room that you aren't present in.

Not sure either but that's what some kaiser guys mentioned in a previous thread on this forum. Perhaps if you supervise good/reliable crnas doing easy cases?

 

[propofabulous]

I work in a So Cal private practice. I don’t get anywhere near $300/hour.

These are numbers I hear through the grape vine. What is a more realistic ball park hourly in your opinion?

 

[thinkorswim]

What was the reason for leaving? In what way did he perceive kaiser to be better than private practice?

The hours and schedule. Kaiser has the ability to offer a very predictable schedule where you know what days you'll be working and know exactly the time you'll be going home. Most private practices can't match that and you don't go home until the work is done.

When I talked with Kaiser a couple years ago, the overall compensation as partner was less compared to the better private practice groups after taking into account benefits and hours worked. Other downsides for me were the lower flexibility in selecting your benefits and working with CRNAs (some may be fine with it, but I enjoy sitting my own cases).

 

[kidthor]

The hours and schedule. Kaiser has the ability to offer a very predictable schedule where you know what days you'll be working and know exactly the time you'll be going home. Most private practices can't match that and you don't go home until the work is done.

When I talked with Kaiser a couple years ago, the overall compensation as partner was less compared to the better private practice groups after taking into account benefits and hours worked. Other downsides for me were the lower flexibility in selecting your benefits and working with CRNAs (some may be fine with it, but I enjoy sitting my own cases).

They do have a very predictable schedule, but on the other hand the Kaiser overlords force them to take extra and overtime shifts when staffing is tight (as is the case now). I have thought about Kaiser on and off but the major thing that turns me off from them is being a cog in a giant wheel and being tied to them for forever due to "the pension". I wouldn't want to feel like I had to work somewhere for eternity to realize the full benefits of the job - especially with healthcare being so volatile these days. Even transferring from one Kaiser to another isn't a sure thing really... it's as if you're tied to that one Kaiser location for eternity. No thanks... as a friend who worked for them said - "you have to be OK with them owning you".

When I'd interviewed with them I also saw a good number of dinosaurs who talked a big game but didn't seem entirely competent. They were clearly lifers who coasted through the system a couple decades ago. They also acted as if I was so lucky to even interview at such a place for an associate job rather than doing the per diem dance for years. I'd not want to have to curry favor to people like that in order to become a partner one glorious secret day.

TL/DR - too much ass kissing, delayed gratification, and regional restrictions for me. The time value of money necessitates getting paid now and enjoying life now not at a theoretical later date that I may not even live till.

But I guess I can see how people with a house, kids, and desire for stability with reasonable pay would want such a job.

 

[nimbus]

1. What was the reason for leaving? In what way did he perceive kaiser to be better than private practice?

2. Why did your guy come back after a few months?

1. I don’t know first hand but there were grumblings from that site about scheduling inefficiency with long days and long midday breaks.

2. Again just a guess but doctors at that hospital got a large stipend bump to help address #1. Also that person is cardiac and Kaiser outsources all their cardiac cases in our area. Perhaps they missed it.

 

[soccerboy2288]

The REAL/FIRST questions is... what/where are these "good" private practices that exist in Socal that are being compared to Kaiser? Specifically in Los Angeles. I don't really know of any. When I graduated a few years ago, almost all residents either went academia/government jobs or had to go out of LA to find a solid PP: OC (hoag, saddleback, mission viejo), Santa barbara, Ventura.

If one wants to live in Los Angeles, options are very limited as far as I understand. When I graduated, I don't think anyone took a PP job in LA.

In comparison, Kaiser has several (if not most) locations accessible from central La

 

[soccerboy2288]

I work in a So Cal private practice. I don’t get anywhere near $300/hour.

I asked a graduating resident this, and she told me one of the top gig she is considering was offering $290/hr, promised 40-50hrs/week (but also taking nights, not just 7-3 or 7-5). But at the time still wasn't sure how long that rate is promised for. Keep in mind this is NOT a partnership track for a PP. Just contracting. Which leads to my next question/point.....

With the private practice job market on fire recently, how have things changed at the Socal Kaisers to keep up? For one thing, per diems are now making 250/hr. Any improvements for associates and partners?

When you mention "Comparable private practice jobs," are we talking about private practice partners all of a sudden raking in way more money compared to before? And new hires are being offered these high rates along with a promised partnership? If so how? All of a sudden unit values shot up? Are you sure you're not mistaking this for academia/PP groups/kaiser/county offering very high rates to temporary/per diem contractors to fill the massive shortage at this time? These are 2 completely different things. Mathematically, how would these PP partners (and new hires on partnership track) all of a sudden do so hot?

To answer your other question: yes, I've heard rates from $250-300/hr at places like UC system, olive view (county), and contracting positions. But my understanding is that these rates were not for the professors/county employees; more so for the per diems.

That’s rough man, what’s your effective tax rate on top of the low pay?

Dang.... 300/hr sounds great in Socal but you'd consider that low pay? 300/hr working 40hrs/week for just 10 months would get you 480k per year.... This is considered LOW PAY outside of Socal? well damn... where do you work and how well do you do?

 

[ucladoc2b]

He said he didn’t get anywhere near 300. I’d consider it fair pay for general work down there but less than that and your paying 150 an hour in taxes

Effective? Probably about 30%. They always get you.

But to answer the question, you are looking at locums rates. I really have no idea what my hourly compensation is (for sure not $300). Most PP in this area don’t pay hourly but based on some sort of production. My group is actually fair. We have a revenue split system based on a day rate and call pay. So there’s no competition for rooms or placement…you get the same pay.

We have been starting our new grads at 100% partner income.

Only big downside is that our payer mix isn’t great.

 

[aneftp]

Pension at Kaiser used to be up to 40% of ur annual pay. That was changed 10-12 years ago. So I’m not sure the pension should play a big factor.

It’s like the federal govt pension used to be a little better but new people have to pay 6x more into the system than the older people did 10-12 years ago.

 

[UnoMas]

Pension at Kaiser used to be up to 40% of ur annual pay. That was changed 10-12 years ago. So I’m not sure the pension should play a big factor.

It’s like the federal govt pension used to be a little better but new people have to pay 6x more into the system than the older people did 10-12 years ago.

Now it's 2% base pay a year for the first 20 years, year 21 to 30 is 1% per year. So after 30 years of service, it's 50% of base pay. It's a long time commitment. Base pay is low and different than gross income, which includes call pay differentials and extra work. At 50% of base pay it's around 200k a year. They also changed the rules about survivor benefits, in which if you died year 1 of your retirement you could lose all of the pension. Don't quote me on this the HR person makes it really confusing. I feel like it's safer to save my own money, drawing on it during retirement and pass on the rest to my kids when I died.

I talked to a few Kaiser locations in SoCal, the few things that turned me off were:
1) Having to work with CRNAs. Only 1 location is MD only, Baldwin Park
2) Most are in-house calls. One location told me their surgeons love to operate overnight
3) 3 years partnership track with low pay, W2... Even then they say most of the time they start people out as per diem, at $250/hr, which is not too bad but still W2 as per diem and I would lose a huge chunk of my income to taxes. It doesn't make any sense to have per diem as W2.
4) 3-4 weeks of vacation starting out. I have more time off during residency


This might have been a good long term gig in a bad job market but right now I find it hard to stomach 300-400K a year working with CRNAs for 3 years while my classmates start out with 450-500K with more time off although working a little harder.

 

[GassmanMD]

Sign on bonus for SCPMG is $150k right now and more for undesirable locations.

 

[ucladoc2b]

Sign on bonus for SCPMG is $150k right now and more for undesirable locations.

All locations or just the out of the way ones?

 

[GassmanMD]

All locations or just the out of the way ones?

All locations

 

[doctalaughs]

Now it's 2% base pay a year for the first 20 years, year 21 to 30 is 1% per year. So after 30 years of service, it's 50% of base pay. It's a long time commitment. Base pay is low and different than gross income, which includes call pay differentials and extra work. At 50% of base pay it's around 200k a year.

200k a year for the rest of your life starting at maybe 60 (if you spent your entire career there) doesn’t sound so bad…. I’m too lazy to put it in an annuity calculator but that’s got to be like a 4-5 million value?

 

[UnoMas]

200k a year for the rest of your life starting at maybe 60 (if you spent your entire career there) doesn’t sound so bad…. I’m too lazy to put it in an annuity calculator but that’s got to be like a 4-5 million value?

It’s abour 2.8 mil.
You could save the same amount by putting away $2100-2200 a month for 30 years at 7% rate. I guess that amounts to about 40k income difference before tax

 

[kidthor]

Sign on bonus for SCPMG is $150k right now and more for undesirable locations.

WOW that’s a lot. What strings are attached in taking it (how long do you have to stay?)?

 

[nimbus]

WOW that’s a lot. What strings are attached in taking it (how long do you have to stay?)?

TPMG in northern CA also advertises $200k in housing assistance. Would be interesting to know what the terms are.

 

[GassmanMD]

WOW that’s a lot. What strings are attached in taking it (how long do you have to stay?)?

Three years

 

[soccerboy2288]

I talked to a few Kaiser locations in SoCal, the few things that turned me off were:
1) Having to work with CRNAs. Only 1 location is MD only, Baldwin Park
2) Most are in-house calls. One location told me their surgeons love to operate overnight
3) 3 years partnership track with low pay, W2... Even then they say most of the time they start people out as per diem, at $250/hr, which is not too bad but still W2 as per diem and I would lose a huge chunk of my income to taxes. It doesn't make any sense to have per diem as W2.
4) 3-4 weeks of vacation starting out. I have more time off during residency


This might have been a good long term gig in a bad job market but right now I find it hard to stomach 300-400K a year working with CRNAs for 3 years while my classmates start out with 450-500K with more time off although working a little harder.

Some misinformation here.

You can find more details on income in other kaiser threads but as a first year associate (Socal) I definitely cleared the upper range of that salary with somewhere between 5-5.5 weeks of vacation. (There's a caveat to this vacation days depending on which kaiser you work for. So you're kinda right but not rly... It's a lot to type out. You can probably find it on other kaiser threads). Obviously income also varies depending on how much you wanna work but I didn't work any crazy hours. With the 150k bonus this year, I guess new hires will clearing 550k !

As a second year I had 6-6.5 weeks. Now as a partner after 3 years I have 7.5 week. Starting next year 8.5 weeks (Again doesn't exactly apply to all kaisers). Not including paid sick days. And with each year came a bump in income, with the biggest obviously being partnership.

I feel like it's safer to save my own money, drawing on it during retirement and pass on the rest to my kids when I died.

Yes, everyone contributes to their 401k + Keogh Plan as well (totaling 66k of tax deductible money for 2023). I save money in addition to this towards retirement.

Keep in mind... we don't pay anything into the Kaiser's pension. NOTHING is taken out of our pay check.

 

[cchoukal]

TPMG in northern CA also advertises $200k in housing assistance. Would be interesting to know what the terms are.

One of the terms is that you can’t already own a home in the entire Norcal service area, and still qualify for this…

 

[soccerboy2288]

Lastly, in previous threads some kaiser guys mentioned that the nature of the work at kaiser is easier than private practice. But is it really easier or less stressful to supervise CRNAs than to do your own cases? Sure, you don't have to be confined to a room and you may be able to get more sleep on call, but we've all heard horror stories of needing to put out fires or becoming consent monkeys running around in preop without any time to be present for intubation/extubation.

This question is hard to address because each kaiser is different when it comes to staffing, scheduling, and types of cases). I can only comment on my specific department but some key takeaways (we are more MD heavy than crnas):

1) We have a pretty HALF/HALF of solo days and supervision days. Mix in PACU/block/float (aka out of OR days) in there too so you aren't always supervising or always in a room. I like the variety. In fact I just checked and I supervise 3-5 days in December.
2) MD's make the schedule and run the board/show. So we are cognizant about what rooms/cases are supervised and what rooms are solo MD. We get to control that. We make sure its safe and manageable for the supervising MD's. (Another example: GI is MD only. We made that call).
3) Being present for induction isn't really a problem. If you cant be there and are worried about another room, you ask the PACU/call/float person to go for you. We support each other.
4) At my location, we have a lot (if not majority) of bread and butter cases for straight forward patients. With our CRNA's that have been at kaiser for longer than I've been doing anesthesia, I feel OK not being there for every single induction or MAC case. These CRNA's more or less mastered the "routine kaiser way" for routine cases. There are obviously times when you supervise a sick patient or big case based on staffing - you just are present there much more. If poop hits the fan for any reason (rare), there's help (call doc, float, PACU, etc) to keep your other rooms going if you're tied up. Again, we are happy to help each other out.

All that being said... I get everyone's point. Do I LIKE supervising? Not really, for the same reasons mentioned by others above. Are there challenges/stressors working with CRNA's? Of course. But when its 9PM at night, and theres an ASA 1 patient finishing up an all day plastic flap case or a young healthy wrist ORIF, I don't mind being out of the OR and just... chilling. Getting paid baby sitting 1-2 train-track cases free to do whatever I want. Definitely doable. Again, by no means am I saying I love supervising and that there aren't challenges. But sometimes there are benefits to it. The reality is that there are times when it’s more chill to be supervising and times when it’s more stressful to be supervising. Overall I do enjoy the mix of supervising/solo/others (given I supervise 1-2 days a week. Often 0). I think it helps with burnout.

 

[GassmanMD]

Right now, the per diems are currently making more than pretty much everybody in the region. Even some traveling nurses are making more than me right now. As frustrating as that is and as much as I complain about it, the reality is these $250-300/hr rates will disappear once the new recruits start in the fall. So far, my department managed to fill all but one open spot even before the sign on bonus was announced last week. The final spot will fill and we will probably open up additional FTE's.

Nobody is more in tune with the current market than a CA3. I honestly came into this recruitment season very pessimistic. I figured a new grad would want to cash in on this hot market and ride locums until the wheels fall off. I thought we were going to have to settle and sign any warm body with a pulse. I could not have been more wrong. Turns out the current CA3s want exactly what I wanted at the time: sustainability, safety, security and support. We definitely pay a monetary price for those things, but seems like the market is saying it is still a good deal.

 

[kidthor]

You can find more details on income in other kaiser threads but as a first year associate (Socal) I definitely cleared the upper range of that salary with somewhere between 5-5.5 weeks of vacation. (There's a caveat to this vacation days depending on which kaiser you work for. So you're kinda right but not rly... It's a lot to type out. You can probably find it on other kaiser threads). Obviously income also varies depending on how much you wanna work but I didn't work any crazy hours. With the 150k bonus this year, I guess new hires will clearing 550k !

As a second year I had 6-6.5 weeks. Now as a partner after 3 years I have 7.5 week. Starting next year 8.5 weeks (Again doesn't exactly apply to all kaisers). Not including paid sick days. And with each year came an increase bump, the biggest obviously being partnership.

The graded vacation thing really rubs me the wrong way. Isn’t the value of your work right now equivalent to that of your coworkers? Granted my shop gives us 4wks of vacation only, which is abysmal, but it’d be wildly irritating to know that Bob who’s been here awhile gets twice the vacation I do.

 

[ucladoc2b]

The graded vacation thing really rubs me the wrong way. Isn’t the value of your work right now equivalent to that of your coworkers? Granted my shop gives us 4wks of vacation only, which is abysmal, but it’d be wildly irritating to know that Bob who’s been here awhile gets twice the vacation I do.

It’s kind of a “reward” for longevity. Like a retention bonus.

 

[propadex]

By my estimate I make a little more than 300 per hr (not locums or per diem). But no benefits like health, malpractice, pension. Safe to assume this is better than kaiser partners? Not trying to start a pissing contest. There are so many downsides to private practice. Terrible lifestyle. Always on call. Really have to earn that money. Self inflicted though. I have a lot of debt. But if my pay and lifestyle are both worse than kaiser, well than I need to change jobs

 

[soccerboy2288]

By my estimate I make a little more than 300 per hr (not locums or per diem). But no benefits like health, malpractice, pension. Safe to assume this is better than kaiser partners? Not trying to start a pissing contest. There are so many downsides to private practice. Terrible lifestyle. Always on call. Really have to earn that money. Self inflicted though. I have a lot of debt. But if my pay and lifestyle are both worse than kaiser, well than I need to change jobs

Yes absolutely. As mentioned above Per diem at kaiser is 250/hr. And as gassmanMD said, this is higher than making more than most partners in the region when comparing strictly pay rate (benefits not included).

In fact, 300/hr sounds like a competitive rate even for currently inflated independent contractor/per diems rates, who are getting the highest rates at the moment. So if you are making that consistently, sounds great. What area is your practice in if I may ask? We are still talking Socal right?

 

[propadex]

Yes absolutely. As mentioned above Per diem at kaiser is 250/hr. And as gassmanMD said, PD are making more than most partners (if not all) (i.e. older partners) in the region when comparing strictly pay rate (benefits not included).

In fact, 300/hr sounds like a competitive rate even for currently inflated independent contractor/per diems rates, who are getting the highest rates at the moment. So if you are making that consistently, sounds great. What area is your practice in if I may ask? We are still talking Socal right?

Yes Socal. But I am an outlier in my practice. My numbers are inflated by very high volume call. I work the most nights and weekends in my group (....and it's not close). Working harder than residency, not sustainable. Doing this until my debt is gone and then cutting back.

There is a call multiplier at kaiser right? I wouldn't be surprised if someone there working the same overnights/calls/hours as me could make a similar rate.

 

[nimbus]

Turns out the current CA3s want exactly what I wanted at the time: sustainability, safety, security and support. We definitely pay a monetary price for those things, but seems like the market is saying it is still a good deal.

+1.

Seeing personable, very high quality new grads from top programs. Vagabond, locums life is not for everyone.

 

[propofabulous]

Right now, the per diems are currently making more than pretty much everybody in the region. Even some traveling nurses are making more than me right now. As frustrating as that is and as much as I complain about it, the reality is these $250-300/hr rates will disappear once the new recruits start in the fall. So far, my department managed to fill all but one open spot even before the sign on bonus was announced last week. The final spot will fill and we will probably open up additional FTE's.

You anticipate that the $250/hr kaiser per diem rate will drop next fall? Would make sense, the jump from precovid $150/hr seemed unsustainable for the long term. Especially if departments fill out, and the per diems are no longer needed.

 

[propofabulous]

Surprised by the tilt against kaiser in the poll results. Maybe it's due to there being significantly more private practice docs than kaiser docs.

 

[ucladoc2b]

You anticipate that the $250/hr kaiser per diem rate will drop next fall? Would make sense, the jump from precovid $150/hr seemed unsustainable for the long term. Especially if departments fill out, and the per diems are no longer needed.

They probably won’t drop. There is a very severe shortage of anesthesiologists. Pretty much everyone is hiring.

They won’t be able to find any at $150.

 

[aneftp]

Right now, the per diems are currently making more than pretty much everybody in the region. Even some traveling nurses are making more than me right now. As frustrating as that is and as much as I complain about it, the reality is these $250-300/hr rates will disappear once the new recruits start in the fall. So far, my department managed to fill all but one open spot even before the sign on bonus was announced last week. The final spot will fill and we will probably open up additional FTE's.

Nobody is more in tune with the current market than a CA3. I honestly came into this recruitment season very pessimistic. I figured a new grad would want to cash in on this hot market and ride locums until the wheels fall off. I thought we were going to have to settle and sign any warm body with a pulse. I could not have been more wrong. Turns out the current CA3s want exactly what I wanted at the time: sustainability, safety, security and support. We definitely pay a monetary price for those things, but seems like the market is saying it is still a good deal.

It’s all about work hours and call frequency with new grads especially if they don’t owe any medical school debt. And Kaiser can offer that.

 

[kidthor]

They probably won’t drop. There is a very severe shortage of anesthesiologists. Pretty much everyone is hiring.

They won’t be able to find any at $150.

Yeah $150 is ridiculous. The Kaiser by me can barely get people at $250.

 

[soccerboy2288]

Surprised by the tilt against kaiser in the poll results. Maybe it's due to there being significantly more private practice docs than kaiser docs.

As posted above, I beg the question: where/what are these good private practices that exist specifically in los angeles that is being compared to kaiser? Or are people just voting for these "theoretical" private practices that are theoretically good? Are people voting for the "thought" of practicing in a good PP? From when I was applying, there really weren't any private groups that offered a true partnership with a reasonable track, fair, transparent, and well paying in the los angeles area. With the hot market, this may be different now cuz everyone wants to fill spots. However, when I was graduating 4 years ago, I was faced with the dilemma of going academia/county/kaiser to stay in LA, or moving out of LA to join a good PP gig.

We aren't comparing apples to apples if geography isn't taken into account in a location like socal/los angeles. Many people take kaiser due to its accessibility from desirable parts of LA: West LA, South bay, Downey, LAMC, Woodland Hills. Its one of the better options in a ****ty market.

There's a lot of detail about Kaiser's forum, and it's easy to say "oh yeah, I would take a good PP over that." But the reality is, there aren't many (or any great ones) in LA. These are located outside of LA: OC, SB, Ventura. By no means am I saying Kaiser is the best in the area, but things have to be put in context. I'm sure there are a few decent PP out there (I heard decent things about Long Beach memorial, northridge, Tarzana but have no details. But even those are in the periphery geographically). But as far as I can see no one has posted any details about a great PP gig in Los Angeles. Again, not trying to start a pissing contest, but I'm genuinely curious myself. Shill me a great PP in LA?

(Also, I didn't even vote for the poll haha)

 

[nimbus]

Kaiser enrolls both Medi-cal and Medicare patients. It would be interesting to know what percentage of their patients are from those programs. I think they have a very small number of no pay/self-pay patients that come through their ERs.

 

[nimbus]

As posted above, I beg the question: where/what are these good private practices that exist specifically in los angeles that is being compared to kaiser? Or are people just voting for these "theoretical" private practices that are theoretically good? Are people voting for the "thought" of practicing in a good PP? From when I was applying, there really weren't any private groups that offered a true partnership with a reasonable track, fair, transparent, and well paying in the los angeles area. With the hot market, this may be different now cuz everyone wants to fill spots. However, when I was graduating 4 years ago, I was faced with the dilemma of going academia/county/kaiser to stay in LA, or moving out of LA to join a good PP gig.

We aren't comparing apples to apples if geography isn't taken into account in a location like socal/los angeles. Many people take kaiser due to its accessibility from desirable parts of LA: West LA, South bay, Downey, LAMC, Woodland Hills. Its one of the better options in a ****ty market.

There's a lot of detail about Kaiser's forum, and it's easy to say "oh yeah, I would take a good PP over that." But the reality is, there aren't many (or any great ones) in LA. These are located outside of LA: OC, SB, Ventura. By no means am I saying Kaiser is the best in the area, but things have to be put in context. I'm sure there are a few decent PP out there, but as far as I can see no one has posted any details about a good PP gig in Los Angeles. Again, not trying to start a pissing contest, but I'm genuinely curious myself. Shill me a great PP in LA?

(Also, I didn't even vote for the poll haha)

Bayside in Santa Monica was recently offering $300/hr on Gaswork for what was reportedly easy work. I know the partnership track is nebulous but the starting pay is pretty good.

 

[soccerboy2288]

Bayside in Santa Monica was recently offering $300/hr on Gaswork for what was reportedly easy work. I know the partnership track is nebulous but the starting pay is good.

Is that St. John’s? This is for a defined, transparent, and reasonable partnership track? Or are we talking about just independent contracting? (Edited/removed previous comment about St. John's since what I know was from 4 years ago and probably doesn't apply in the current market)

250-300/hr gigs are everywhere now. I am interested to learn about PP groups with clearly defined, transparent, and reasonable (<3yrs) partnership track that treats the new guy relatively fairly with cases/scheduling/call. Isn’t that what defines a good PP on this forum???

Now in this hot market, I'm sure some groups are making better offers (for now). But prior to this, were they making the same good offers?

Furthermore, I heard some places only offer 300/hr for OR time only. Huge difference.

 

[GassYous]

Bayside in Santa Monica was recently offering $300/hr on Gaswork for what was reportedly easy work. I know the partnership track is nebulous but the starting pay is pretty good.

Wasn't that for billable hours and not in the hospital hours
Fake partnership track?
They advertised here recently and got punished

 

[soccerboy2288]

You anticipate that the $250/hr kaiser per diem rate will drop next fall? Would make sense, the jump from precovid $150/hr seemed unsustainable for the long term. Especially if departments fill out, and the per diems are no longer needed.

I think this is a great question for the entire market as a whole. Is the shortage/backlog temporary and will the whole market rate cool down? If yes, then kaiser per diem rates probably will too (historically partners have never had a reduction in rates. Which is also why Kaiser reacts slowly when raising rates according to market).. Realistically how can groups keep offering high rates if unit value doesn’t go up (I’m not in PP so I might be naive).

If rates remain high permanently, kaiser usually lags but readjusts rates for partners too. Otherwise Partners will not be happy and just quit. I imagine those who atleast vested the pension will have a low threshold to do so.

 

[soccerboy2288]

Wasn't that for billable hours and not in the hospital hours
Fake partnership track?
They advertised here recently and got

(No idea about what you mean by fake partnership track. But see my post above)

Details make a huge difference. I think the information laid out here on the forum (and what we provide to applicants) for kaiser is extremely transparent. I’d imagine that means something to someone out there…

 

[ucladoc2b]

Is that St. John’s? Hmm are you sure that’s a good long term gig with a fair and transparent partnership track? Or are we talking about just independent contracting? Cuz I heard from a graduating senior the contract had some major red flags. (Also heard bad things regarding partnership there from a guy who left there when I was graduating. He came to academia after 4 years there. But hey, things might be different right now).

250-300/hr gigs are everywhere now. I’m talking about a promised, defined, reasonable (<3yrs) partnership track that treats the new guy relatively fairly with cases. Isn’t that what defines a good PP on this forum???

Furthermore, I heard some places only offer 300/hr ONLY for OR time. Huge difference.

For a while that group was OR time only. So if you were delayed from some malfunctioning equipment, you aren’t paid. Maybe someone knows of that is different.