Updated Kaiser Southern California (2022) thread

[nimbus]

I am soon to be a new grad and looking to grind. Looking for a place to grind out 70-80 hours a week for a few years to reach Financial Independence then switch to a lifestyle practice or academic. A few of my classmates share the same mentality. I think it’s called Coast FIRE (with or without the RE). The hard part is finding a place without a heavy and long taxation i.e buy-in.

I think every generation thinks the next generation is lazier and less motivated yet we ended up working similar amount of hours unless older people in your groups work more hours than the young ones consistently, which I doubt is the case.

We have plenty of new grads who work very hard. They pick up extra trauma call and volunteer for optional OB call. We have some real workaholics taking heart call too. It varies by individual but I haven’t noticed a generational shift over the past 20+ years. My observation may have some selection bias because our compensation is productivity based so you are rewarded for hard work.

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[GaseousClay]

Bashing? Laughable. They were just saying that IN GENERAL, new grads seem less focused on money and more focused on a little work-life balance. How is it bashing?

Too sensitive, this new generation….lol jk relax

 

[GaseousClay]

I am soon to be a new grad and looking to grind. Looking for a place to grind out 70-80 hours a week for a few years to reach Financial Independence then switch to a lifestyle practice or academic. A few of my classmates share the same mentality. I think it’s called Coast FIRE (with or without the RE). The hard part is finding a place without a heavy and long taxation i.e buy-in.

I think every generation thinks the next generation is lazier and less motivated yet we ended up working similar amount of hours unless older people in your groups work more hours than the young ones consistently, which I doubt is the case.

We’ve hired over 15-20 new grads in last 3 years 90% of them only want straight hours. (40-45 a week)

 

[repititionition]

every single “here is what I have seen in my group” answer is colored by selection bias. these groups with young folks who want to push it hard will have a different system of financial incentives in place than a group where most new hires want to to a straight 40 hour week. every system is perfectly designed to generate the results it gets.

 

[zkz05]

What are their salaries and hours like?

GasWork.com - Reference #377899

Reference #377899

www.gaswork.com

Post is up to date and salary range is accurate. Hours are 50-60/week. They have multiple mechanisms in place for you to be home for the day and be paid (or unpaid) for it which allows a lot of flexibility. Calls each month (customizable): 0-1 in-house overnight, 1-2 late nights, 3-4 home for dinner. With their system you can end up getting home for a late dinner after call and be relieved by lunch the next day but paid for a full day.

 

[epidural man]

Take a PP job.

Consider this. If you take the extra pay and save it for 3 years - and buy a 4-plex unit. Let's be conservative and say that each unit creates $2000k/month rent.

Do that again, in 5 or 10 years.

In 30 years (akin to a Kaiser pension length of time needed), the complexes will be paid off. That will generate an income of $192,000 (very conservative estimate) which rivals the pension - AND you still have the value of the properties.

 

[epidural man]

+1.

Seeing personable, very high quality new grads from top programs. Vagabond, locums life is not for everyone.

I agree -

I get a daily email or text from recruiters. I have started answering this way.

Yes - I'd love more per diem work. Here are my stipulations.

The place needs video laryngoscopy readily available.
The place needs working equipment in excellent condition with readily available backup equipment.
There needs to be competent (Anesthesiologist or CRNA) available for backup at almost all times.

Since I've started saying that, not a single one has responded. Makes me think most places suck.

 

[ucladoc2b]

GasWork.com - Reference #377899

Reference #377899

www.gaswork.com

Post is up to date and salary range is accurate. Hours are 50-60/week. They have multiple mechanisms in place for you to be home for the day and be paid (or unpaid) for it which allows a lot of flexibility. Calls each month (customizable): 0-1 in-house overnight, 1-2 late nights, 3-4 home for dinner. With their system you can end up getting home for a late dinner after call and be relieved by lunch the next day but paid for a full day.

Yup. Fair system. Fair group. Non malignant hospital.

 

[epidural man]

Some have mentioned that this current market condition will likely not last.

Why would that be? Is there a huge bolus of anesthesiologists/CRNA's coming to the market soon? Is there a predicted decrease in the need for surgeries coming? Is the aging anesthesiology population deciding to work longer than previously predicted?

 

[GassYous]

Some have mentioned that this current market condition will likely not last.

Why would that be? Is there a huge bolus of anesthesiologists/CRNA's coming to the market soon? Is there a predicted decrease in the need for surgeries coming? Is the aging anesthesiology population deciding to work longer than previously predicted?

The baby boomer generation is retiring and dying. The era of easy, cheap money is over. The government won't be able to borrow at low rates anymore. The National debt is already 31 trillion and that is with the biggest tax base in history. Look at how many able people are on government dole now. The working population cannot continue to pay for all the entitlements for the non productive. This will mean more Medicare cuts followed by private insurance cuts, more denials of reimbursement, fewer procedures. How many bs knee scopes and nerve ablations do you think the system will tolerate before saying enough?

 

[CD125]

GasWork.com - Reference #377899

Reference #377899

www.gaswork.com

Post is up to date and salary range is accurate. Hours are 50-60/week. They have multiple mechanisms in place for you to be home for the day and be paid (or unpaid) for it which allows a lot of flexibility. Calls each month (customizable): 0-1 in-house overnight, 1-2 late nights, 3-4 home for dinner. With their system you can end up getting home for a late dinner after call and be relieved by lunch the next day but paid for a full day.

This 450-650k number is a raw production number before overhead, malpractice, health insurance and retirement correct? Assuming 450 is something like 8 weeks vacation and 650 minimal vacation?

 

[UscGhost]

Yup. Fair system. Fair group. Non malignant hospital.

Lower pay than other groups in the area, more call, sicker patients too.

 

[UscGhost]

This 450-650k number is a raw production number before overhead, malpractice, health insurance and retirement correct? Assuming 450 is something like 8 weeks vacation and 650 minimal vacation?

I interviewed a partner a year ago who was leaving that group. The partners made around 450. The new hires made 300-400 with their buy in. Call and work volume was a bit above average for the area

Not sure who is making 650..maybe the cardiac guys or people taking a ton of call.

 

[zkz05]

I interviewed a partner a year ago who was leaving that group. The partners made around 450. The new hires made 300-400 with their buy in. Call and work volume was a bit above average for the area

Not sure who is making 650..maybe the cardiac guys or people taking a ton of call.

There used to be percentage income reduction prior to partnership but that is not the case for now per gaswork

 

[dabears505]

If you want to work like crazy right when you come out, go to some desperate place paying 300 hr as a locum and click on those hours. 2 years of that you will be debt free and likely enough to get a paid off house.

 

[nimbus]

I interviewed a partner a year ago who was leaving that group. The partners made around 450. The new hires made 300-400 with their buy in. Call and work volume was a bit above average for the area

Not sure who is making 650..maybe the cardiac guys or people taking a ton of call.

Sad part is that partners there were making 400-500k in 1996. If income kept up with COL, they should probably be making at least $1.5mil.

 

[OTCAwesome]

Take a PP job.

Consider this. If you take the extra pay and save it for 3 years - and buy a 4-plex unit. Let's be conservative and say that each unit creates $2000k/month rent.

Do that again, in 5 or 10 years.

In 30 years (akin to a Kaiser pension length of time needed), the complexes will be paid off. That will generate an income of $192,000 (very conservative estimate) which rivals the pension - AND you still have the value of the properties.

You're way oversimplifying this. I own several rental properties and I fully support RE investment. However, there are lots of things you will have to deal with which are a huge PITA, even if you do have a rental management company. Trust me, it's not apples to apples.

 

[nimbus]

You're way oversimplifying this. I own several rental properties and I fully support RE investment. However, there are lots of things you will have to deal with which are a huge PITA, even if you do have a rental management company. Trust me, it's not apples to apples.

In our state, we had an eviction moratorium during the pandemic. Landlords were paying deadbeat tenants $10-15k to move out.

 

[USCTrojan11]

Some have mentioned that this current market condition will likely not last.

Why would that be? Is there a huge bolus of anesthesiologists/CRNA's coming to the market soon? Is there a predicted decrease in the need for surgeries coming? Is the aging anesthesiology population deciding to work longer than previously predicted?

There is an extremely large bolus of AA's coming...not applicable for all states but great for FL, TX, TN

 

[thinkorswim]

Word on the street is Kaiser per diem rates are up to $300 per hour at some locations.

 

[narcotics999]

Word on the street is Kaiser per diem rates are up to $300 per hour at some locations.

I think Cali metros are paying at least 300$/hr. Kaiser 300 is not that competitive.

 

[Remxed]

What's the general considerations for PP cardiac jobs in LA? It doesn't seem like Kaiser is hiring for cardiac. And given that most groups are RVU driven, what are the main things I should be looking for outside of cardiac volume? And are there any red flags I should be aware of? Happy to discuss over PM too.

 

[anbuitachi]

how is kaiser guaranteeing pension and annual raises. i dont really get it, since their revenue is from insurance, and that is not predictable, and doesnt even grow much.

IDK how kaisers pension works. someone above said 50% base pay by year 30. not sure how much that is 30 years from now, if base pay is 1m in 30 y ears, thats 500k a year? dont see how that is affordable to maintain. eventually they need to get rid of pension completely and offer lower salaries i imagine to fund the pension, but that starts a bad cycle of lack of staffing etc.. will see how kaiser does in 30 years i guess

the only pension system i rly trust is from gov. otherewise 30 years is a long time. even the strongest companies may not exist in 30 years

 

[ProEra]

I believe Kaiser has reported a significant profit for Q1 of 2023 likely attributed to increased enrollments in their insurance plans for this year.

 

[nimbus]

how is kaiser guaranteeing pension and annual raises. i dont really get it, since their revenue is from insurance, and that is not predictable, and doesnt even grow much.

IDK how kaisers pension works. someone above said 50% base pay by year 30. not sure how much that is 30 years from now, if base pay is 1m in 30 y ears, thats 500k a year? dont see how that is affordable to maintain. eventually they need to get rid of pension completely and offer lower salaries i imagine to fund the pension, but that starts a bad cycle of lack of staffing etc.. will see how kaiser does in 30 years i guess

the only pension system i rly trust is from gov. otherewise 30 years is a long time. even the strongest companies may not exist in 30 years

Kaiser is the insurance and they’ve been growing market share in the states where they operate. Don’t know how Permanente Medical Group funds their pension though.

 

[thinkorswim]

Kaiser is the insurance and they’ve been growing market share in the states where they operate. Don’t know how Permanente Medical Group funds their pension though.

As with any other pay-as-you-go pension, it’s a Ponzi scheme. It only becomes a problem when there are more retirees than workers.

Oh wait, isn’t this the hottest job market and greatest shortage for anesthesia providers yet? I wonder what’ll happen when we all retire?

 

[narcotics999]

I believe Kaiser has reported a significant profit for Q1 of 2023 likely attributed to increased enrollments in their insurance plans for this year.

That is mainly caused by capital investment, aka stock market. 1.2b profit, 930million from capital investment.

 

[UnoMas]

how is kaiser guaranteeing pension and annual raises. i dont really get it, since their revenue is from insurance, and that is not predictable, and doesnt even grow much.

IDK how kaisers pension works. someone above said 50% base pay by year 30. not sure how much that is 30 years from now, if base pay is 1m in 30 y ears, thats 500k a year? dont see how that is affordable to maintain. eventually they need to get rid of pension completely and offer lower salaries i imagine to fund the pension, but that starts a bad cycle of lack of staffing etc.. will see how kaiser does in 30 years i guess

the only pension system i rly trust is from gov. otherewise 30 years is a long time. even the strongest companies may not exist in 30 years

It’s been a while since my interview with them but pension is 2% a year for the first 20 years, 1% a year for the following 10 years. So 30 years working for Kaiser = 50% base pay pension. Pay base for the pension is calculated by average of 3 highest paying year or something like that. 10 years to vest. I didn’t have it in me to commit for 10 years. I want money upfront in my pocket

Base pay is not that high even for partners it’s in the mid 300s I think.

 

[GaseousClay]

That is mainly caused by capital investment, aka stock market. 1.2b profit, 930million from capital investment.

Southern California Kaiser is losing money hand over fist

 

[<(^_^)>]

This 450-650k number is a raw production number before overhead, malpractice, health insurance and retirement correct? Assuming 450 is something like 8 weeks vacation and 650 minimal vacation?

450k for 55 hours a week and 8 weeks vacation it comes out to 2,420 hours a year, or 185 dollars an hour.

 

[Anesthesia_Guy]

450k for 55 hours a week and 8 weeks vacation it comes out to 2,420 hours a year, or 185 dollars an hour.

Embarrassing. Anyone working for that pittance should hang their head in shame.

 

[UscGhost]

Embarrassing. Anyone working for that pittance should hang their head in shame.

But the pension!!

 

[nimbus]

Embarrassing. Anyone working for that pittance should hang their head in shame.

Question is are they really working 55 hours/week? Seems like a lot of people overestimate their hours. Out of curiosity I just checked my arrival to end of last case times over the past 2 weeks which included a mix of long days and short days. But my total was 74 hours over 2 weeks. If I ballparked it, I would have guessed 45-50hrs/week. The reality was 37hrs/week. 55hrs/week seems like an awful lot. If they really work those hours with an average payor mix/average stipend in SoCal, I’d bet they’re at the higher end of that range.

 

[nimbus]

But the pension!!

You’re referencing a post about a non-Kaiser job.

 

[dabears505]

Man how do you guys get such good jobs doing such short hours? 76 hrs last week.

 

[Dr. Rude]

Man how do you guys get such good jobs doing such short hours? 76 hrs last week.

- You lied. - I exaggerated.

Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (1982) clip with quote - You lied. - I exaggerated. Yarn is the best search for video clips by quote. Find the exact moment in a TV show, movie, or music video you want to share. Easily move forward or backward to get to the perfect clip.

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[dabears505]

- You lied. - I exaggerated.

Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (1982) clip with quote - You lied. - I exaggerated. Yarn is the best search for video clips by quote. Find the exact moment in a TV show, movie, or music video you want to share. Easily move forward or backward to get to the perfect clip.

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Why would I lie on an anonymous internet forum?

 

[kidthor]

Man how do you guys get such good jobs doing such short hours? 76 hrs last week.

At my previous job I was in the 70s some weeks too. I quit and found another one that pays slightly more with a much more humane schedule.

 

[ucladoc2b]

Man how do you guys get such good jobs doing such short hours? 76 hrs last week.

Not difficult to hit with a 24 hour weekend and a couple of late days or a weekday call.

 

[Anesthesia_Guy]

Man how do you guys get such good jobs doing such short hours? 76 hrs last week.

Dumb