Upperline Podiatry

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Mia McBhul

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Any current or former employees of Upperline podiatry care to give their feedback and share their experiences?

I interviewed with them ~2years ago and was told by the working providers to avoid it. However, it could very well just be that specific location. Now, i find myself in a situation where my current practice is being bought out by Upperline, which means I'll end up working for them after all in a few months. Not quite sure what to look forward to.
 
Any current or former employees of Upperline podiatry care to give their feedback and share their experiences?

I interviewed with them ~2years ago and was told by the working providers to avoid it. However, it could very well just be that specific location. Now, i find myself in a situation where my current practice is being bought out by Upperline, which means I'll end up working for them after all in a few months. Not quite sure what to look forward to.
Bear in mind thos is 2nd hand from former classmates

Typical PE. moderate or slightly better salary, pushing to see more, refer to within the system. I wouldn't do it if I wasn't desperate but unfortunately it's about 60% of going jobs now
PE is a ****ing scourge
 
Any current or former employees of Upperline podiatry care to give their feedback and share their experiences?

I interviewed with them ~2years ago and was told by the working providers to avoid it. However, it could very well just be that specific location. Now, i find myself in a situation where my current practice is being bought out by Upperline, which means I'll end up working for them after all in a few months. Not quite sure what to look forward to.
As podiatrist 40 plus years-avoid it. You get shaft and they get mine!
 
Yes I smelled trouble when i interviewed with them. Especially when the current practicing providers were openly voicing their discontent to me. I do appreciate their frankness, and I was under the impression that it might've just been that specific location.

Thought I had dodged a bullet when I refused their offer. Jokes on me that Upperline going on a buying spree acquiring practices all over the nation.

I would love to hear from someone that might have had a positive experience working for Upperline
 
Jokes on me that Upperline going on a buying spree acquiring practices all over the nation.
Joke will be on them when they can’t find a new PE firm to unload the debt they’re currently loading up on. Then they go bankrupt. There’s always a bag holder at the end.

Multiple stories of PE’s faulty strategy across many different sectors in the US economy.

Stay away as far as you can. They rely on podiatry’s poor job market to pay you beans and load you up with volume resulting in crummy patient care.
 
My partner showed me a feature in APMA magazine, which I would not otherwise be reading, about PE supergroups. Unfortunately, I can't find it online. The overall tone was that "well it could be bad, it could be good, ymmv." The emphasis was on the implications of PP owners selling to these groups, with really no discussion of what incoming associates can expect from these groups. However, they did have lengthy quotes from Patrick DeHeer and Lowell Weil Jr. Thanks APMA! 👍

I do think that the pendulum will eventually swing back in favor of smaller practices. I think as supergroups get bigger, the type of DPM who gravitates towards these jobs will be those who are complacent about their careers (no offense intended to @Mia McBhul ) whereas the more ambitious DPMs will strike off on their own. In the long run, the better doctors are going to be in the solo and small group practices. OK fine toenail care is toenail care, but if PE wants to corner the market on toenails, I'll let them win that fight. For any care that requires real brainwork as well as skills for coordinating patient care and time management, the small group/solo practice is going to run more productively and more efficiently, with better attention to patient outcomes.

In addition to differentials in intrinsic productivity, there's also a principal-agent problem that I think can only be addressed so well through production incentives for the associates.

So Mia if this is all you can find, try it out for a while but save up to plan your next move.
 
...dodged a bullet ... working for Upperline
Hmmm, funny you should say that:

 
If you look down on the threads here, you'll see one called "Private equity/ venture cap. podiatry".

Go to page 2 (page 1 is basically off topic lol) and scroll down my October comment where I asked a bunch of questions and then the discussion progressed with others experiences and opinions of PE practices. The first response on page 3 (that I wrote) explains how PE groups in healthcare function, and why they will screw ALL of these HUNDREDS of practices and podiatrists eventually.

All of these practice owners that sold to them screwed the profession.

I imagine that in podiatry, much like any small healthcare practice even just 10 years ago (PCP/dental/anasthesia/pharm), used to be a good small business where the owner retires, sells to an associate, the associate works and then retires, sells to his associate, gets a partner to expand, so on and so forth. Even if the older docs were selling their practices at what a lot of you guys on this forum consider inflated prices, I'd rather pay an inflated price for a practice and make 50% of everything I bring in for the next 35 years versus this alternate universe that we have created where private equity firms overpay the old guys to sell, and now we have no chance of taking over an older practice and being business owners, all while making 30% of collections.

Is there any chance that you can just buy him out? If you've been working there for a few years, you probably already know how to run everything and since it's an existing practice, you don't have to worry about loss of cash flow by becoming an owner.
 
Joke will be on them when they can’t find a new PE firm to unload the debt they’re currently loading up on. Then they go bankrupt. There’s always a bag holder at the end.

With a never ending supply of new grads in need of employment, they can skim 20% off the top of these practices in perpetuity. If they deviate just slightly from the typical PE acquisition/profit model they could keep this thing afloat for quite awhile
 
What about Alevio and Balance Health? Do they suck too?
 
...All of these practice owners that sold to them screwed the profession.

I imagine that in podiatry, much like any small healthcare practice even just 10 years ago (PCP/dental/anasthesia/pharm), used to be a good small business where the owner retires, sells to an associate, the associate works and then retires, sells to his associate, gets a partner to expand, so on and so forth. Even if the older docs were selling their practices at what a lot of you guys on this forum consider inflated prices, I'd rather pay an inflated price for a practice and make 50% of everything I bring in for the next 35 years versus this alternate universe that we have created where private equity firms overpay the old guys to sell, and now we have no chance of taking over an older practice and being business owners, all while making 30% of collections.
...
You severely underestimate how easy it is to start a PP for podiatry. It's also not as expensive as you think.

This is not dent where you need hundred$ of thousand$ in equipment.
This is not plastic surgery or retina where you are rare and need a very wiiide refer base from docs and word of mouth (and a surgery center?).
This is not even ophtho or neuro or something where you need a whole lot of diagnostic equipment.
Besides podiatry or FP, the only easier or cheaper office to start might be ... maybe psych??? (one or even no staff for psych, no instruments)

...Anyone selling pod offices to supergroups is just getting paid. No problem with that. C'est la vie.
It is very easy to compete with supergroups. Don't be afraid of it. They are generally weak and not staffed well (docs or support staff). They'll overbook or overbill or have many issues as they are profit-oriented and not truly local. It's like starting a new restaurant and competing against Dennys... sure, some people want fast, but it's not quality.

The ones to be careful of going against are actually longstanding successful small or medium pod groups with good docs. That is usually hard to break into those demographics, they likely have refer networks fairly entrenched in that city/area. They also will go to the mat for refers, reputation, that area.... but supergroups just close underperforming locations or move docs around or open/buy offices often. The supergroups are run by typically crap to average leadership and rely on ads and fast appointments, but the smaller networked pod groups with refer sources secured can be much more formidable (same for a skilled and likeable and dominant hospital DPM in the area... tread carefully unless there is plenty to go around).

And sure, there is the TINY chance of a well-run supergroup nearby, but it's unlikely. Most large and supergroups have average to below docs, underpay them, and any good doc likely won't stay long. Supergroups are usually just a start point for young DPMs (while they look to leave to greener pastures)... or maybe a forever home at the supergroup for lackluster DPMs. Bottom line: there is just no way to to get many, many, many good staff and docs at all locations for any supergroup. It does not happen. People generally HATE going through a phone tree, having poor customer service, dealing with an office whose staff and docs are clearly just there for a paycheck with a lot of turnover. Some people like that or don't mind it, and those are not your target customers anyways.

There is plenty to go around. Remember when Leonidas laughed at the Persians when they had an army of slaves but he had free men... super soldiers? Think of it that way: supergroups are nonsense. "The wolf does not concern himself with the opinion of sheep." PCPs would nearly always prefer to refer to a local doc than a corporation (hospital PCPs probably have to refer to a hospital pod... but in general, independent or MSG or other PCPs will prefer small/solo PP that communicates to supergroup with revolving door of podiatrists, typically). It's the same for people living there in the area: they'll usually prefer a doc with longevity who is attached to - and well-liked in - the area.

For a fast litmus test, call my office and ask when routine non-injury and non-wound new patients are seen (bunion, skin or nail, flat foot whatever), and then call the nearby supergroup.. they'll probably overbook you for same day or in their many cancel and no-show spots. Tells you all you need to know. 🙂

comic book movie GIF
 
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With a never ending supply of new grads in need of employment, they can skim 20% off the top of these practices in perpetuity. If they deviate just slightly from the typical PE acquisition/profit model they could keep this thing afloat for quite awhile

If they did that, then there was no point in private equity getting involved at all. There are plenty (or were plenty at this point lol) of private practice owners that could've bought out a local retiring guy and hired an associate and keep that model going for five or 10 or 20 or 50 practices. Which I think is what Village in Georgia and Weil in wherever they are from were before private equity came into the mix.

With PE, if they're not buying more to inflate their assets to sell at a profit, or gutting the existing business while taking out loans against it to payback investors, then it fails. Anything else doesn't need their involvement. There's plenty of rich people who can buy a bunch of businesses and skim off the top without gutting them or selling them to the next guy and still make a profit that's worth it.
 
What about Alevio and Balance Health? Do they suck too?
Never heard of Alevio, but it just looks like any RFC SNF/ALF/at-home mobile company, like PPG or Aria Care. I will say that it does seem odd to me that they list who the providers are because those other, much larger companies that I mentioned don't list what podiatrists works for them.

Balance is just like any other huge private equity firm. They've bought out a ton in the West Coast and deserts.

But I think within the next 10 years, it will create good opportunity for a small or solo private practice where patient satisfaction and camaraderie still matters because I honestly think all these private equity podiatry groups are going to go bankrupt (probably on purpose to payback investors) or they're going to realize it's not worth it and start gutting the places for scraps. Either scenario allows the small private practice to flourish once again.
 
The ones to be careful of going against are actually longstanding successful small or medium pod groups with good docs. That is usually hard to break into those demographics, they likely have refer networks fairly entrenched in that city/area.
This is very relevant to the starting a practice thread as well, but hey, say retina or ophtho and I appear.

The market is such a big factor. If you can’t make inroads, then you’re DOA. For example, my medium(?) size group has an area outside our metro with a big catchment where we did big business unopposed. We had someone set up solo nearby a couple years ago who had grown up in the vicinity and trained with one of the local cataract docs. Nice but kinda nerdy and boring (tbf that’s most of us eye folks).

Didn’t understand that labor is kinda rough out there and was offering fast food wages. Eventually hired one of our former employees who reached out to our staff. Sadly he didn’t know that individual was fired for serious issues, so that was a lead balloon. Initially we saw a drop in referrals from the practice with connections, but that bounced back pretty fast despite them writing a bunch of their own old school Chat GPT reviews.

As far as I can tell they’re maybe doing ok, so good for them, but yeah, have to read the room.
 
Looks like I'm cornered. No other option on the table than opening my own shop.

Appreciate everyone's insight
Don't do it recklessly though. If you gotta work for a while to save and find the right spot then it's ok.
 
I get out. Get word out podiatry BS from school to graduation and beyond!!
 
Don't do it recklessly though. If you gotta work for a while to save and find the right spot then it's ok.
About how much would one need to start a practice? 50K should be sufficient?
 
About how much would one need to start a practice? 50K should be sufficient?
50k is fine, but you might be able to do it with 30 + line of credit. Work on a business plan and see who will fund you. Good luck!!!
 
The problem is they want you to feel cornered and then they usually trap you into a pretty restrictive contract with a wide non-compete. They need that cheap labor. They know what they’re doing, unfortunately.
 
The problem is they want you to feel cornered and then they usually trap you into a pretty restrictive contract with a wide non-compete. They need that cheap labor. They know what they’re doing, unfortunately.
Upperline founded by previous APMA presidents and current APMA leadership!!!

More schools, more residency programs, more graduates.....
 
Looks like I'm cornered. No other option on the table than opening my own shop.

Appreciate everyone's insight

Like others said, that's part of their plan.

There are some metro areas where private equity owns a lot of the practices, and unfortunately, they are the only ones that are hiring anyways (likely due to high turnover and low pay).

If you don't mind sharing, what state or part of the country are you in?
Upperline specifically has been buying practices in Georgia, Florida, California, indiana, and Kentucky. I think there's more too.
 
Upperline founded by previous APMA presidents and current APMA leadership!!!

More schools, more residency programs, more graduates.....
This. They write editorials and blogs about how "value based care" is so much better for all the stakeholders. Smoke and mirrors.

One thing i cannot reconcile is that at least subjectively these PE practices seem to have a lot less associate turnover than standard private practices. I am not sure why that is.
 
One thing i cannot reconcile is that at least subjectively these PE practices seem to have a lot less associate turnover than standard private practices.
They trap you. The one PE contract I saw had a non-compete of 8 miles. If you practice at more than one location in a medium sized city, makes it pretty tough to leave without moving to a new city. Contract also had a clause that if you work 100 hours at any clinic, the noncompete includes that location too. So in theory they can move you around to black out an entire city if they want to.

Also, 6 year vesting 401k. Want your entire match? Stuck there for 6 years building other ties and debts that make it tough to leave.
 
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This. They write editorials and blogs about how "value based care" is so much better for all the stakeholders. Smoke and mirrors.

One thing i cannot reconcile is that at least subjectively these PE practices seem to have a lot less associate turnover than standard private practices. I am not sure why that is.
Yep, it's what @Boba Foot said basically... they pay you a decent base the first year (150-180k usually), then they make it straight 30%. The associate usually doesn't have their budget and their student loans figured out that first year and/or has grace period. So, that seems like a lot of money. It's the frog in boiling water.
They get comfortable, some even "buy" mortgage houses or "buy" borrow cars/trucks or lay roots like friends or clubs or kids in school or whatever... and then they are basically trapped. On straight 30% collections, it's then pretty hard to even take much vacation without taking an income hit ($500k collect per year to keep even $150k income), so they're stuck on the hamster wheel for decades... seeing the schedule and doing the "protocols" the supergroup gives them. Their "career" peaks a few years into working at these supergroups. It's just like PharmDs working at Walmart, CVS, etc.

...Even in places without non-compete, you'd be surprised how many podiatrists don't have better options than these supergroups.
NMex, where I practice, has no non-competes. It's like Cali where they don't hold up in court at all, but that doesn't stop some groups from trying to put it into the associate contracts anyways... to discourage associates going to competitor groups or solo or hospitals. The biggest pod group here changed control to PE last year; new contracts were issued. They have about a dozen docs in this state (and more in other states).... and 2 of their best 3 docs quit almost immediately for hospital job and other PP group work. The only solid one left working in that supergroup now got ABFAS cert this year, so that doc might be gone soon also if they have better options. We'll see.

PP associate in a normal small/medium pod group is always an option, but that is not as attractive as supergroup first year pay for most podiatry grads with $300k or $400k or maybe even $500k debt if they took private or max loans or didn't pay interest in residency/fellowship. Even if most regular PPs have higher % collections pay like 35% or 40% or whatever, they usually have a bit lower guaranteed base early ($100k-$150k usually), they are usually variable and would take a couple years to pass the supergroups in pay. The vast majority of new grads will just take highest guaranteed base that they can find. Supergroups set their carrot on this stick.

A surprising amount don't have too many options, though. Tons of "foot and ankle surgeon" grads every year now.
The replacement docs for the outgoing ones in example NM above situ had pretty low level training.
Many won't pass ABFAS, so hospital jobs, even VA or something, are pretty much out (and competitive regardless).
Some of them buy into the noncompete, even if it's a paper tiger. They're afraid of lawsuit, even if they'd win.
A few know the non-compete is fake or could get a better job outside radios, but they're too lazy to move and "start over."
Many buy into the supergroup grift of "doctor X in the group made $400k on his 30% doing ABC protocols, and you can too!"
Quite a few are beta personality and happy enough simply making $160k-200k or whatever and paying minimums on student loans.
A lot of people fear doing solo PP because it's time consuming or though to be expensive.
Most of all, a lot just can't find anything better (solo or other PP jobs may be better for pay/partner possibility, but they start low/"risky").
 
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The biggest pod group here changed control to PE last year; new contracts were issued. They have about a dozen docs in this state (and more in other states).... and 2 of their best 3 docs quit almost immediately for hospital job and other PP group work. The only solid one left working in that supergroup now got ABFAS cert this year....

I got curious and googled "Albuquerque podiatrist" since I'm bored.

There's more podiatrists in ABQ than I was expecting geezus. Of the first 4 practices that pop up on google, there's 8 in the first group, 5 in the 2nd, 5 in the 3rd, and ANOTHER 5 in the 4th one. There was still more practices that I could've clicked on, but you get the point. NM is supposedly one of the more desolate states in the US, and there's still 23 individual pods I counted in JUST THE FIRST 4 google results only lol.

None were even the PE group place you mentioned (which I am assuming is the one that randomly has locations in Oregon and Vegas and Utah for whatever reason, along with a random family medicine practice that is just NPs and 2 podiatrists LOL).

Anyways, I tried to make a post on reddit podiatry about saturation in the field like 2-3 weeks ago. Kept it professional and didn't badmouth the field or any particular organizations (was saving that for the comments lmao). The moderator denied it from getting approved. haha.
 
I got curious and googled "Albuquerque podiatrist" since I'm bored.

There's more podiatrists in ABQ than I was expecting geezus...
That is basically anywhere in USA, man.

The population of ABQ is about 500k and it's "metro" is a bit under 1M total (it's basically a large city masquerading as a metro area). So, theoretically, if you do the one pod per 20k population rule of thumb, that'd support 50 podiatry docs. There are more than that with the various group, supergroup, solo, ortho, hospital, VA, etc pods there. Albuquerque would be considered minimally saturated by podiatry terms... heavily saturated by any other MD/DO specialty terms. NM has a relative overall shortage of docs of all kinds (except podiatry)... malpractice rates, other reasons.

And sadly, ABQ is much less dense with podiatrists than most USA metros... yet it's still around the supposed limit even with only one residency and no pod school nearby. Las Cruces NM or decent sized cities in most surround states are much worse in DPM saturation (Phoenix, SLC area, Vegas, Denver, Texas or Cali major cities, etc), and remember that AZ pod school and Western pod schools are still fairly new. It'll keep changing in time.
 
They trap you. The one PE contract I saw had a non-compete of 8 miles. If you practice at more than one location in a medium sized city, makes it pretty tough to leave without moving to a new city. Contract also had a clause that if you work 100 hours at any clinic, the noncompete includes that location too.

How simple is it, regardless of if it's private equity or a small private practice or a hospital, to have stuff like noncompetes removed from the contract?

Some of these listings for balance health and upper line jobs have been posted for over six months. Would these places be desperate enough to hire that they would just remove whatever stipulations from the contract that you didn't like?

I've been seeing some private practices that have had ads up for 9+ months, and they still haven't hired anyone (I've checked their websites). I'm assuming that puts the applicant in an advantaged position to remove that crap from the contract. At least that's what would make sense.
 
How simple is it, regardless of if it's private equity or a small private practice or a hospital, to have stuff like noncompetes removed from the contract?

Some of these listings for balance health and upper line jobs have been posted for over six months. Would these places be desperate enough to hire that they would just remove whatever stipulations from the contract that you didn't like?

I've been seeing some private practices that have had ads up for 9+ months, and they still haven't hired anyone (I've checked their websites). I'm assuming that puts the applicant in an advantaged position to remove that crap from the contract. At least that's what would make sense.
Not a chance.

If it's a state that allows (enforces) non-compete clauses in general and for medical, they won't remove it. That's a core part of their biz model.

Like I said, if it is in the contract but the state doesn't enforce the non-competes for docs (or at all), then just consider the rest of the contract and ignore the non-compete. Consult an employment attorney in that state to verify. That is a fine way to get a foothold in an area... and then re-eval later on.

...But trying to negotiate or remove non-compete is pointless (for PP or for supergroups). They won't do it in supergroups, and even if a regular PP will reduce it, you are basically yelling to them "I want to stay here and probably be your competition soon." Just play the part of the doting little associate looking to make a basic wage and work hard. 🙂
 
it has been sketching me out to attempt because of how many podiatrist there are within the metros.
Fun supposed fact from a recruiter who used to hang out on the eye board - a little more than half of the US population lives in the top 51 metros (Albuquerque is #61).

There are 3 main influences for where you wind up - where you trained, family, and interest stuff like beach/mountains. So there’s a large number of people who will have the first and/or second checked off already. It’s a lot harder to have someone accustomed to “city” life go to “country” life than vice versa.

Go figure a place like NYC would be saturated. Has a school, I’m assuming a bunch of residencies, likely plenty of people from there or, if not, like the idea of living there. Boom, saturated.
 
They trap you. The one PE contract I saw had a non-compete of 8 miles. If you practice at more than one location in a medium sized city, makes it pretty tough to leave without moving to a new city. Contract also had a clause that if you work 100 hours at any clinic, the noncompete includes that location too. So in theory they can move you around to black out an entire city if they want to.

Also, 6 year vesting 401k. Want your entire match? Stuck there for 6 years building other ties and debts that make it tough to leave.
8 miles isn't the worst but yeah in combination with other factors it makes it tough to leave. My contract has a noncompete of the county the hospital is based in.
 
8 miles isn't the worst but yeah in combination with other factors it makes it tough to leave. My contract has a noncompete of the county the hospital is based in.
8 miles does not sound bad, but with multiple offices, if you actually draw it out on a map, you are basically locked out of half the city in all but maybe the top 10 or 20 biggest square miles metros in USA. In some cities - or with enough offices owned by the group, you are locked out of all reasonable parts of the city with that measure.

Usually, 2-5mi in city or maybe 5-10mi in suburbs, or up to around 20-30mi in rural is reasonable. Some the nonsense ones that are 50 miles or 100 miles or whatever in a city are deemed unreasonable and the non-compete is thrown out completely (again, consult employ or medical attorney in the state in question). In the redder states, those covenants can be fairly bulletproof, though.

The county lines limit is insanely restrictive in many places. That can be a million or even 5M or 10M people in some places, or it can block thousands, even 10k or more, square miles. It depends on the county shape and size and what's around it, but still wild. Do you know if those covenants are enforced successfully and routinely by courts where you are? I'd consult an attorney, even if you like the new job right now... odds are it won't always be that way, and that's very important info.

Definitely the weirdest one I heard was a phone call I got from an attorney for her client, who was an associate where I'd been an associate in Michigan maybe 3 or so years earlier. The office was trying to say they had a "secondary business location," which was apparently a residential address, to extend the non-compete radius and stop her client from opening a solo office. I told them I'd never heard of the secondary location as an accounting or whatever kind of other office... definitely was not a patient care office there when I had worked there. Crazy shady strategy to limit competition (but maybe it happens a lot, actually?). So, maybe it's good to say what physical address(es) define the covenant in the contract if it's a state where medical covenants hold up? Or you could just know some people who know some people who beat up some people... either way?

...Beyond the location clauses, be aware of the non-solicitation clauses too. If you start up or move nearby, it's good to have pts sign a form that they initiated the contact, found you and new office of their own choosing, were not contacted, were not solicited, etc. That is another tripping point for docs who leave and go a few miles down the road (can't prove they didn't take a list of pts that "belong" to the old office and didn't contact them).
 
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8 miles isn't the worst but yeah in combination with other factors it makes it tough to leave. My contract has a noncompete of the county the hospital is based in.
8 miles on its own isn’t terrible but I’ve see PE acquire two unaffiliated pod practices and then take the associates from one of the two and move them between both practices. So they’ve essentially had their prior non-compete radius doubled on them.

Not sure what state you’re in, but a noncompete for an entire county sounds illegal to me. You might look into that. Even red ass Texas has passed new legislation limiting non-competes to a 5 mile distance.
 
My casual non-attorney understanding of non-competes is to prevent the employee (podiatrist, lawyer, florist, whoever) from using trade secrets they acquire in the course of their employment with the firm from posing a commercial threat. In practice, I'm noticing they are instead being used punitively as an intimidation tactic. Theoretically, an outgoing associate would have an antitrust claim against an unreasonable non-compete radius. In practice, however, if you had the resources to fight a legal battle with Upperline, you wouldn't have needed to work for them in the first place.
 
Correct, which is why the last administration’s FTC tried to ban non-competes. Unfortunately, that upset the oligarchs and corporations so it got struck down pretty quick and is effectively dead under the current regime.
 
Anyways, I tried to make a post on reddit podiatry about saturation in the field like 2-3 weeks ago. Kept it professional and didn't badmouth the field or any particular organizations (was saving that for the comments lmao). The moderator denied it from getting approved. haha.
Sounds about right.
 
I was thinking about starting an ACFAS 2026 thread because I've been reading up on Las Vegas dining/entertainment extensively. It's funny how the story of Private Equity exploiting podiatry associates is similar to the story of Private Equity exploiting Vegas tourists (resort fees, parking fees, ATM fees, 6:5 blackjack, Triple 0 roulette). The result? Tourists are looking off the strip for better deals, just like podiatrists moving to BFE for jobs. Some avoid Vegas altogether just like pre-health students avoid podiatry altogether.

PS Jerry's Nugget has a 30oz prime rib for $47.
 
I was thinking about starting an ACFAS 2026 thread because I've been reading up on Las Vegas dining/entertainment extensively. It's funny how the story of Private Equity exploiting podiatry associates is similar to the story of Private Equity exploiting Vegas tourists (resort fees, parking fees, ATM fees, 6:5 blackjack, Triple 0 roulette). The result? Tourists are looking off the strip for better deals, just like podiatrists moving to BFE for jobs. Some avoid Vegas altogether just like pre-health students avoid podiatry altogether.

PS Jerry's Nugget has a 30oz prime rib for $47.
Vegas is so exploitive even ACFAS moves their typical conference dates to the middle of the week so it will be cheaper.
 
Vegas is so exploitive even ACFAS moves their typical conference dates to the middle of the week so it will be cheaper.
Yeah I want to five up 10k plus in production to go to ACFAS. F that. Monday ....
 
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Lol speaking of all this Vegas talk, just saw this. Who wants to go halvsies?
Also, for $1million dollars, not including the inventory can't be true right? lol
 
lol the website implies its just a stock photo.

I don't know too much about medical practice evaluations, but an asking price above gross revenue, or even at gross revenue, seems incorrect with market norms.

Yes, I get that there are 1000 different ways to skin this cat, but just for simplicity sake; typically its supposed to be a percentage of gross, not THE gross revenue, or ABOVE gross revenue lol.

Not too mention this doesn't even include the real estate or "inventory".

What's the point of this person paying for this ad to be posted when anyone with half a brain that knows how to read and use google can see the valuation is atypical and hyperinflated compared to "market norms" of practice valuations? Am I missing something here? Do people just let these places sit and shut them down and get nothing instead of pricing reasonably enough to sell? lol
 
lol the website implies its just a stock photo.

I don't know too much about medical practice evaluations, but an asking price above gross revenue, or even at gross revenue, seems incorrect with market norms.

Yes, I get that there are 1000 different ways to skin this cat, but just for simplicity sake; typically its supposed to be a percentage of gross, not THE gross revenue, or ABOVE gross revenue lol.

Not too mention this doesn't even include the real estate or "inventory".

What's the point of this person paying for this ad to be posted when anyone with half a brain that knows how to read and use google can see the valuation is atypical and hyperinflated compared to "market norms" of practice valuations? Am I missing something here? Do people just let these places sit and shut them down and get nothing instead of pricing reasonably enough to sell? lol
A friend of mine buys used exotic cars. Typically, a car collector dies and leaves behind a collectable car. Sometimes the car is in need of a lot of work, maybe even undriveable. Regardless, when the widow or estate decide to sell the vehicle, it is typically overpriced. Most people pass on making an offer. My friend, depending on the situation offers 50-75% of the asking price. Almost always his offer is refused. Many times, several months later he receives a call from the seller agreeing to his initial offer. Similarly, someone is over pricing this practice. Go look at the practice. If all of the above is true, offer the seller 45% of asking price. Who knows, in six months it might be yours!
 
lol the website implies its just a stock photo.

I don't know too much about medical practice evaluations, but an asking price above gross revenue, or even at gross revenue, seems incorrect with market norms.

Yes, I get that there are 1000 different ways to skin this cat, but just for simplicity sake; typically its supposed to be a percentage of gross, not THE gross revenue, or ABOVE gross revenue lol.

Not too mention this doesn't even include the real estate or "inventory".

What's the point of this person paying for this ad to be posted when anyone with half a brain that knows how to read and use google can see the valuation is atypical and hyperinflated compared to "market norms" of practice valuations? Am I missing something here? Do people just let these places sit and shut them down and get nothing instead of pricing reasonably enough to sell? lol
Bro my SWEAT EQUITY. Pay extra money for all the years of hard work I put into building this masterpiece of a podiatry practice

I deserve it
 
Yes, I get that there are 1000 different ways to skin this cat, but just for simplicity sake; typically its supposed to be a percentage of gross, not THE gross revenue, or ABOVE gross revenue lol.
There are 3 components to any business valuation whether we're talking about a lawnmower repair shop, a pet photo studio, or a podiatrist office: good will, assets, and cash flow. Think of it as past, present, and future. There is no concise formula relating revs to the value, though I think they end up being about equal. Some docs believe it's 1/2 revs, while others believe (wrongfully imo) that it's 2x revs.

I'm curious how a solo venture generates close to 1M in collections per year. Probably not skin sub abuse, that would throw off your cash flow numbers. What's the payer mix? Do they offer a lot of cash services? Do they do a lot of retail? If their business model is to schmooze with rich old ladies and inject them with PRP at $2k a shot, is the prospective buyer able to replicate that? Just posing questions anyone should be thinking about. Also, as with buying a house or any other asset, there's no rule against making an offer under asking price.

Commenters here will say never buy a practice, start your own, but there are real benefits to jumping in the driver's seat and turning on the ignition. It is a fact that businesses are bought and sold, including podiatrist offices.
 
There are 3 components to any business valuation whether we're talking about a lawnmower repair shop, a pet photo studio, or a podiatrist office: good will, assets, and cash flow. Think of it as past, present, and future. There is no concise formula relating revs to the value, though I think they end up being about equal. Some docs believe it's 1/2 revs, while others believe (wrongfully imo) that it's 2x revs.

I'm curious how a solo venture generates close to 1M in collections per year. Probably not skin sub abuse, that would throw off your cash flow numbers. What's the payer mix? Do they offer a lot of cash services? Do they do a lot of retail? If their business model is to schmooze with rich old ladies and inject them with PRP at $2k a shot, is the prospective buyer able to replicate that? Just posing questions anyone should be thinking about. Also, as with buying a house or any other asset, there's no rule against making an offer under asking price.

Commenters here will say never buy a practice, start your own, but there are real benefits to jumping in the driver's seat and turning on the ignition. It is a fact that businesses are bought and sold, including podiatrist offices.

A couple of random CPA websites on purchasing a medical practice say typical is "0.3-0.7x of revenue". So below 1x revenue for sure even at the "high" end lol.

In terms of the 1 million in generated revenue, I have encountered a few people between school and residency that do. None of them were excessively using skin subs. There's a guy on IPED right now looking for an associate that says both him and his other associate generate ~1million each, and they're non-op. It happens apparently lol.
Which is why I don't understand how some of these practices I see for sale that have "been in the community for 30 years" list their gross revenue as something ridiculously low, like 175-225k annually.

Yeah I agree. I think buying a practice (that is reasonable) is less stressful and less time consuming to generate cashflow and profit. I would venture to guess the biggest "value" when buying a practice is the EIN, the insurance panels, and that's it. Even if you move locations and buy new equipment and EMR, etc., atleast you have insurances reimbursing you right away instead of waiting how ever many months or years it takes to get onto insurance panels from scratch.
 
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