UQ internship priority P4 to P2?

[drvfedorov]

Hi everyone,

I recently attended a seminar for the UQ MD program, and someone asked a question regarding the current internship ballot positions. Currently, intl students are P4 (excluding overseas intl schools), but apparently there have been talks about moving all intl graduates of UQ to P2. They said that it was a topic on the "agenda". Can anyone confirm this possibility? or re-assure that I didn't just hear things.

Thanks,

V

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[pitman]

Sounds interesting. There was talk about this last decade, but in the end Qld didn't think it would hold up legally. On the other hand, a similar legal argument was ignored when SA first and Qld second (2006 or 2007) bumped int'ls above AMC candidates with PR (ignoring requirements not to de-prioritize those with PR), and they seem to have gotten away with it, at least so far -- the ACT lawsuit may now throw some of this up in the air.

Admittedly, I never fully understood the relevant regulation (I simply cheered at the time that the lobbying worked), then or now. It would be great though if someone did the research (...is there the same federal regulation or legal precedent with Australian states fudging on interpretation? ...federal law rescinded or new precedent, with the ACT decision now potentially setting a new precedent? Or was the 'rule' originally just a COAG agreement between states that wasn't ultimately binding?) and reported back.

 

[RahX]

As a current UQ student, we're told that they would like to present the idea of moving priority to P2 from P4 to QLDMSC. However, it doesn't change the fact that P2-P7 are not guarantee any internship spots. Therefore, moving priority doesn't change the situation too much for international students hoping for a easy job opportunity.

I have no idea how these policies work and how long it takes to change, so even for MD graduates in 2021 it might not change by then.

 

[drvfedorov]

Well the guarantee still wouldn't be there, but the idea of being given the 2nd priority is still exciting nonetheless.

 

[RahX]

Well, from what i've heard from upper years and interns, the priority system past P1 isn't really concrete. For example, if a P1 spots opens up due to someone dropping out, that spot is opened to anyone the hospital wishes to hire, regardless of priority. Therefore, even if you are to become a P2, if you don't have the connection or don't have a good reputation, you wouldn't be able to score a position in a location you would like. Just my 2 cents

 

[Phloston]

Although just speculating, I'd put a very low percentage chance on internationals moving up in the priority preferencing system. I just couldn't imagine Australian government changing the system so that, as a possible outcome, any of their own citizens wouldn't be allocated.

 

[sean80439]

I wouldn't put much stock in the UQMS promises, or even UQ to do things in a timely manner.

edited - other stuff not really relevant to thread, nevermind.

 

[pitman]

The talk may have been given by the SOM, but it wouldn't be a SOM call to make per se, it'd be QHealth as directed from above. But I wouldn't dismiss QLDMSC's (as opposed to UQMS' independent) ability to lobby -- since it was created as the first statewide med soc council (by 2005 UQMS President Hodge), it's actually had a good run, helping with bumping up priority before as per above in its first year or two, being instrumental (with AMSA, when it briefly had some balls) in lobbying the feds to relax what was Formally Known as the Ten Year Moratorium (via 2007 UQMS and ?2009 AMSA President Bonning), and changing the face of medsoc lobbying across the country to be more regional, forging ties to their respective state AMA associations. AMAQ at least used to be very responsive to the interests of QLDMSC.

If there is a concerted move by the Qld med socs via QLDMSC to act on this (whether they can succeed is another matter, as Phloston points out), the schools will get on board and so would AMAQ, up against whatever resistance the state government puts up. Essentially, whether such organization happens will be determined by the personalities running Qld's med socs any given year, particularly the Presidents and Liaison Officers. But as my mantra was back then (along with "Suck it up"), if you don't see it happening, then make sure you make it happen.

 

[sean80439]

Pitman, it might just be from getting burned by the whole 4th year requirement to come back for a rotation and how they promised and ensured that it was getting removed only for them to basically give up on the whole thing and act as if there was never a discussion contrary. It's like the guy you ask to come help you move, and he promises he will be there, insists on it, says he is bringing the beer and the truck and friends, only for it to get to moving day and he not only noshows he basically says he never promised that and just hoped he'd be able to make it.

 

[pitman]

For sure, the SoM and UQMS do get things wrong. Often monumentally. My point was that: 1) no promise seems to have been made (except to bring the issue up); 2) if QLDMSC decides to take the lead and push/coordinate this, there will be plenty of support to pressure the state, while there is precedent to believe they can make a difference, assuming the reps are motivated and competent.

The most effective approach IMO would not be to be despondent but to focus on lobbying QLDMSC to lobby on behalf of the students. In the end, that means for students to take it upon themselves to make it happen, to take advantage of the opportunity as presented (which at the very least isn't an obstructionist SoM).