I didn't change my statement at all. He was talking along the lines of QLD Health whereas I was directing my comments more specifically to UQ.
I'm not saying those matters are trivial but to an international student going to Australia, aspects of the experience such as quality of life have significant meaning. If you're a drone whose sole focus is on prestige/money/reputation, then sure, Go to Ochsner.
And since those schools don't churn out as many students aiming to practice in America you cannot reliably say that Ochsner is better---(in fact there's a guy from USydney on here who received a good residency in the US without needing to do all the work you claim)---even if it it specifically designed to get people back to America/steal their money.
Seriously?
qldman: "I've just found that
UQ is particularly egregious when it comes to pumping students for as much free labour as can be extracted.."
pitman: "There is no free labor -- it actually costs hospitals (and thus UQ) to clinically train the students."
qldman: "I was referring more to aspects of the program like Teamwork in Action, Scholarship of Research, Honours, Rural Rotation/Medicine in Society, etc.
where UQ just tries to steal the intellectual property of students and force students into pointless endeavors to build up the UQ brand"
qldman: "I guess I was imagining things when my preceptors told me themselves
they found the health projects to be pointless"
[emphasis mine]
So, how do we go from "pumping students for free labor" to " UQ tries to steal the intellectual property of students..." to "they found the projects to be pointless" and that
isn't changing your statement? Just stop digging, put down the shovel, and admit for a change that you are just spouting off nonsense because you don't like UQ (which is
fine for you not to like UQ, and totally fine for you to state that
opinion, but not to blather on inanely like you have been about other things which you have no idea nor make any sense).
"If you're a drone whose sole focus is on prestige/money/reputation, then sure, Go to Ochsner."
How about "if you are interested in maximizing your chances at securing a US residency?" You know, the entire point of the program and literally
exactly what was being asked about? Trying to not-so-slyly make this about "quality of life," greed, and status is ridiculous. This is about what will maximize your chances at a US residency. Across the board, going foreign immediately makes that harder. Certain programs (none in Australia that I know of) make that
particularly worse. UQ-O is reasonably likely to be
better than the average international program
for those people interested in returning to the US for residency. I'm sure you could go to a hack school in SouthEast Asia for 1/3 the cost that gives you free massages and individual professors every day, and that
still wouldn't be relevant to the discussion of whether it will help you get a US residency. Once again, precisely what this thread is about and precisely what premdboy asked.
Perhaps to you the 4 years of med school and how much fun and happiness you had during them are the only thing that matter. For most rational people that is absolutely a consideration, that is absolutely secondary to the entire rest of their lives and careers.
"And since those schools don't churn out as many students aiming to practice in America you cannot reliably say that Ochsner is better"
First off, I have said innumerable times that there is no hard data to definitively say that the UQ-O program is better at getting foreign grads to US residency. However, in the absence of stronger evidence, weaker lines of evidence converging on and supporting the plausibility of the claim is reasonable (you know, those pesky principles of evidence you don't like because they don't let you blather on with your whinge fest pity party commenting). And, quite frankly, by design a program specifically geared to get you back to the US will be better at doing that than a program that isn't.
"in fact there's a guy from USydney on here who received a good residency in the US without needing to do all the work you claim"
Wow. Totally blew me away with that one. That one anecdote just completely destroyed everything I've said. Such as:
"This is not to say it is impossible to get a good residency at an academic center from non-UQ Aussie SoM's. But it will, without question, be significantly more difficult for very real and tangible reasons."
Oh, maybe it didn't actually conflict with anything I've said at all.
It actually saddens me that someone who has such poverty in critical thinking, lack of regard for the principles of rational and evidence based discourse, and feels the desire to make his own negative experience into a pity party for others when your experience is minimally relevant is soon to be a physician. I know it happens all the time, but it is just sad to be reminded of it.