UQ vs. USydMP

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Hi Ya'll,

I thought that since USydMP offers have been sent out, I would start a thread to discuss and compare the two universities and their respective programs in MUCH GREATER detail than has been discussed in previous threads. What are the pros and cons of each? (some have already been mentioned by liquid_krystale) I've heard many things wrong with both, and also, many things right with each! Most importantly, what I would like to know is, how much of a difference there is in attaining internships after a stint at each respective medical school? Would one have an easier time getting an internship after graduating from UQ (very tough, from what I hear) or USydMP (haven't research enough so far)?

Another question beyond the scope of this thread that deals with how ACER processes applications: Could someone please clarify how the application process for ACER actually works? I mean, I have received an interview offer for USydMP and it was my first choice, so then what happens with my second choice? Will I ever be considered for my second choice university now that I have received an interview from my first choice?

Thank you!

 

[ewc]

this is going to be one big dilema... usyd has a better international reputation than UQ... but in australia, as long as you're in a sandstone uni, you can't go wrong. i was told during my info session with UQ that they're changing the program such that we can get up to 6 months of electives overseas (meaning n am students can come back with less probs). the usyd website is totally confusing about how to do the electives.. and also it seems like you'll have to make up for your time in usyd if you did electives elsewhere at a later time (extending length of program). UQ is 10k cheaper than usyd, also in terms of living expenses, but it also means that sydney being a bigger city, things are easier/more convenient to obtain, and more variety than brisbane. it's like comparing montreal and quebec city or new york city and boston... also, everyone is telling me that usyd is a better choice without telling me why...

perhaps someone with more experience could enlighten us applicants?

thanks

 

[ewc]

also forgot to mention usyd is about 270+ in first year, and UQ is about 400 in first year....

 

[Jane Rain]

International students are allowed to choose 2 schools to apply to. If your 1st choice of school rejects you, the 2nd choice is notified and you can apply to that school.
If your 1st choice offers you an interview, the 2nd choice school will not be notified OR recieve your application.

UQ and Wollongong allow international applications to bypass ACER and apply directly. With this method, it is possible to apply to apply for 3 or 4 schools total (If your 1st choice school rejects you, it would still count as an application albeit a failed one 🙂.

I've been offered an interview at U Sydney (2nd choice uni through my ACER application) and UQ through a direct application. In this sense I have applied to 3 schools.

Hope that helps.

 

[Live4Life]

International students are allowed to choose 2 schools to apply to. If your 1st choice of school rejects you, the 2nd choice is notified and you can apply to that school.
If your 1st choice offers you an interview, the 2nd choice school will not be notified OR recieve your application.

UQ and Wollongong allow international applications to bypass ACER and apply directly. With this method, it is possible to apply to apply for 3 or 4 schools total (If your 1st choice school rejects you, it would still count as an application albeit a failed one 🙂.

I've been offered an interview at U Sydney (2nd choice uni through my ACER application) and UQ through a direct application. In this sense I have applied to 3 schools.

Hope that helps.

What was your first choice? Im curious to know which school had more stringent cut-offs than uSyd.

 

[liquid_krystale]

What was your first choice? Im curious to know which school had more stringent cut-offs than uSyd.

I think the stringency of the cutoffs vary according to number of positions available and the strength of the current year's applicants. I imagine that cutoffs are more stringent for Usyd than for UQ but I'm not sure where smaller schools like Wollongong rank on the list. Perhaps it's more of a personal choice made by each applicant that in turn affects the quality/competitiveness of the applicant pool.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Sydney is more research oriented than UQ, but UQ still does a substantial amount of research. UQ students are also required to do 8 weeks of rotations in a rural location, for Sydney students its optional.
Sydney in terms of city living is much faster in pace than in Brisbane but you can get everything you need in Brisbane. Brisbane has shopping malls similar to what you find in North America. Sydney could potentially be a distraction to some people and might be something they want to others. This is not some third world country, there are people here who have money, I have seen Ferraris parked near my house here in Brisbane, and I lived for a long time in California and never saw one. If you see an Aussie with a Ferrari you can be assured that he or she is loaded.

Sydney is right next to the ocean while Brisbane is more inland, its not difficult to get to most beaches in Sydney, in Brisbane most people drive to the Gold Coast or elsewhere.

 

[shan564]

Required rural rotation? That's a big deterrent for me. Plus, I want more research exposure... although USyd doesn't offer any MBBS/PhD scholarships (not that UQ is too big on them either, but at least they offer something).

 

[JoeNamaMD]

UQ recently started to require students to do a few rotations in rural medicine, its a fairly new thing, still the school is more all around like Sydney, the schools that emphasize rural care in Oz tend to be UOW, Flinders and a few others. In the past this was not the case, most UQ grads focused on working in cities, and most still do.

If I did this all over again, I would have picked Sydney U over Queensland, Sydney is just an incredibly awesome city but not that distracting as people say, Melbourne is another great city. Still I think I had a great experience at UQ.

People who like Brisbane are usually into the outdoors a lot and the beach. Sydney and Melbourne are more for city people. But you get excellent outdoor activity in NSW and Victoria.

 

[ewc]

hi joenamamd, was wondering if you knew anything about electives and any penalties (i.e. course extended by 3-4 months) if we went on electives, from either UQ or Usyd?

 

[Winged Scapula]

RE: International Reputation

If you are speaking of US faculty, bear in mind that the reputation of UQ vs USyd doesn't really make a hill of beans difference.

There are very few universities outside of the US that Americans, medical faculty or not, have heard of. Cambridge, Oxford, Karolinska would come to mind as places that are generally known.

USyd? Not really. Yes, people know *of* Sydney and perhaps they've even been there. And they might assume that Sydney has a university. But to claim that U Syd has an international/"world class" (a phrase I've seen tossed around here) reputation in the US is overblown.

There might be less of a stigma coming from an Aussie school but in the grand scheme of things you are still an IMG/FMG and there is not a significant difference in regards to reputation between UQ and USyd.

Choose whichever school is better for you in terms of curriculum, lifestyle, cost, or even reputation *within* Australia, but don't fool yourself that the majority of US faculty has a smidgen of knowledge or opinion between the two.

 

[Alphonsine]

RE: International Reputation

If you are speaking of US faculty, bear in mind that the reputation of UQ vs USyd doesn't really make a hill of beans difference.

There are very few universities outside of the US that Americans, medical faculty or not, have heard of. Cambridge, Oxford, Karolinska would come to mind as places that are generally known.

USyd? Not really. Yes, people know *of* Sydney and perhaps they've even been there. And they might assume that Sydney has a university. But to claim that U Syd has an international/"world class" (a phrase I've seen tossed around here) reputation in the US is overblown.

There might be less of a stigma coming from an Aussie school but in the grand scheme of things you are still an IMG/FMG and there is not a significant difference in regards to reputation between UQ and USyd.

Choose whichever school is better for you in terms of curriculum, lifestyle, cost, or even reputation *within* Australia, but don't fool yourself that the majority of US faculty has a smidgen of knowledge or opinion between the two.

Then it's their problem because they're so insular.

USyd is ranked one of the top 30 universities internationally by many ranking systems. So yes, it is quite famous and Sydney is a world class city.

 

[Zuckman]

I'd gladly pick UQ over USyd. USyd is quite a bit more expensive and that would make my already tough financial situation worse. Also, I prefer Brisbane as a city (just from reading about the different cities).

Zuck

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Wingedscapula is actually quite right that most academics in North America are only familiar with a few universities outside of the region. Most people will recognize Oxford, Cambridge, etc quite easily.

Sydney though is highly ranked among the world's universities, so is UQ, there is really not much of a difference between the two schools reputations, it would be like comparing Cornell to Columbia.

Their surroundings though are very different, comparing Sydney to Brisbane is like comparing London to Zurich. Forbes called Sydney one of the ten most stylish cities in the world, only London and Paris were ranked higher. Still for a medical student this won't mean much because you will be busy with your studies.

Fyi, Australians recently won the Nobel Prize for Medicine in 2005, quite an achievement for a country of 20 million people. A good number of students from Norway also come to Australia to study medicine.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9576387/

World class research is performed at Australian universities in the field of Medicine.

 

[Alphonsine]

It really annoys me when I hear Americans looking down upon other countries like they're the 3rd world or something. People who do that obviously have never traveled very far.

If you look at the world's best cities to live in, all of Australians major cities are listed very highly. What other country has the bragging rights.

Australia might not be a superpower because it doesn't have the population but it's a great country. It has world renowned researchers, scientists, hospitals, etc...

Oh, if I heard anyone comparing Oz medical schools to the Caribbean, I will seriously slap that person through the message board.

 

[Live4Life]

If I did this all over again, I would have picked Sydney U over Queensland, Sydney is just an incredibly awesome city but not that distracting as people say, Melbourne is another great city. Still I think I had a great experience at UQ.

You'd be willing to choose uSyd over UQ even though it costs $10k more per year? Honestly, the more I think about it the more I realize that uSyd's tuition rate is truly out of this world. Even the most expensive medical schools in the states are cheaper than uSyd. I just couldn't justify paying $50K+ a year in tuition unless my parents or myself were filthy rich. (Not just like a net worth of $2-3mil, more like $5mil+)

 

[Winged Scapula]

Then it's their problem because they're so insular.

USyd is ranked one of the top 30 universities internationally by many ranking systems. So yes, it is quite famous and Sydney is a world class city.

It really annoys me when I hear Americans looking down upon other countries like they're the 3rd world or something. People who do that obviously have never traveled very far.

If you look at the world's best cities to live in, all of Australians major cities are listed very highly. What other country has the bragging rights.

Australia might not be a superpower because it doesn't have the population but it's a great country. It has world renowned researchers, scientists, hospitals, etc...

Oh, if I heard anyone comparing Oz medical schools to the Caribbean, I will seriously slap that person through the message board.

Good Lord. Please get a grip and reread my message.

I never said Sydney wasn't a world class city, nor do I think anyone with half a brain thinks that. Of course Australia has some wonderful places to live. I'm not sure how you think my post above even comes close to commenting on that.

My comment also wasn't in reference to whether or not Norwegians come to Oz to study or whether or not internationally USyd is ranked in the top 30. Please show me where I said that Americans "look down" on other countries. For the record, most Americans love Australia, even if they've never been there. They are much more likely to look down on certain parts of their own society/country, than of Australia.

Nor did I say that the American medical establishment thinks Oz medical schools are comparable to the Caribbean in terms of education or prestige. Yes, Aussies have Nobel prize winners, great research, great beaches, etc. I'm not sure why you felt the need to defend the country as a whole - I lived there for many years and still have family there. I know all about the wonderful aspects of the country and its medical community.

BUT FOR YEARS, I have read on this and other boards about how prestigious Australian schools were. Heck, I even participated in some of those conversations. And yes, I am willing to admit that, for the most part, if you were to ask American medical faculty which was better: an Australian school or a Caribbean school, they would undoubtedly pick the former. However, given the fact that there are many programs that will not take ANY foreign trained physicians, in effect, at these programs it doesn't matter if you went to the internationally famous USyd, St. George's in the Caribbean or Stewart University. They are all foreign schools and as such, your application from any of them will be disregarded at such programs. I realize that may come as a shock to you, given that you chose UQ over Saba, but its a fact.

My point (here and above): Perhaps America is insular, but that's not the topic of discussion here (because I actually agree with you on that point). Please stop fooling yourself into thinking that American medical faculty will know there is any difference between any of the Aussie schools in terms of prestige, education, etc. As JoeNama notes, there is not enough knowledge or actual difference for anyone to have a preference.

Whether USyd is "quite famous" around the world is irrelevant when users are talking about its reputation in the US and how it will affect their ability to get a US residency if the OP can't stay in Oz. What is important is its reputation in the US, which is clearly no different than UQ or any of the other Aussie schools. Since the OP is Canadian and was (at least according to her earlier posts) planning on return to North America, it really doesn't matter what people say about USyd in polls or elsewhere in the world. What matters is its rep in NA and since her question was: which is better UQ or USyd, the answer is:

it makes no difference except for the difference it makes to you (in terms of lifestyle, cost, etc.)

 

[greens]

I completely agree with Winged Scapula and it really won't matter two sh*#@ which school you choose come time to apply for residencies in North America. So as far as deciding which school to go to I would say your main Q's to answer should be How much do you want to spend? and What type of place do you want to live in? Having been to both places unless you are from really big cities in America or Canada both places will seem like decent sized cities with over a million people and plenty of stuff to keep you occupied in your down time. Brisbane will be warmer and more humid than Sydney but considerably cheaper as far as any type of living expenses are concerned. Not being a PR or citizen you'll find both places to be more challenging in trying to find a HO position once you graduate (But having said that a lot of non-aussie grads manage every year. I live in New Zealand and I know a lot of Kiwi's that go over to OZ for PGY1 training positions every year). If I was you I think I'd go with Brisbane cause you'll have less debt in the end to pay off which is always a bonus. Plus, in my medical experience the required rural placements were some of the best placements at medical school. You get to actually act like a doctor cause you are needed and have heaps of responsibility. At times this can be scary but you learn loads.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Brisbane is not as cheap as people think, the real estate prices in Brisbane are now the second highest in Australia after Perth. There are many areas of Sydney where I have found apartments that are roughly the same in rent as those in Brisbane, Sydney's a much bigger city and there is more demand to live there, which doesn't make any sense. If you are going to live around Sydney Harbour in an area with a that kind of view you are going to pay some high prices.
The suburbs of Brisbane are not too bad yet with regards to cost of living. Although some people should be warned that Brisbane has a large population of yobbos and bogans, I saw far less of these *****s in Sydney.
Sydney has much better restaurants, so does Melbourne, I think this is due to both cities large international populations. I went to Sydney several times and Brisbane is a *****hole in comparison, people lucky enough to live around the Harbour and North Sydney area are the luckiest people on Earth, in Brisbane there is nothing to do outside of school except go to the beaches in the Gold and Sunshine coasts(the only time you can get chances to pick up women there are during the warmer months in November but beware there is a lot of jailbait hanging around on the Gold Coast, or get drunk in a local bar, although Briz is still better than your average US/Canadian city. There is a lot of Asian ethnic food in Brisbane but not enough European food, especially Italian, Italian food in Sydney is amazing.

 

[rappel]

Wingedscapula is actually quite right that most academics in North America are only familiar with a few universities outside of the region. Most people will recognize Oxford, Cambridge, etc quite easily.

Sydney though is highly ranked among the world's universities, so is UQ, there is really not much of a difference between the two schools reputations, it would be like comparing Cornell to Columbia.

Their surroundings though are very different, comparing Sydney to Brisbane is like comparing London to Zurich. Forbes called Sydney one of the ten most stylish cities in the world, only London and Paris were ranked higher. Still for a medical student this won't mean much because you will be busy with your studies.

Fyi, Australians recently won the Nobel Prize for Medicine in 2005, quite an achievement for a country of 20 million people. A good number of students from Norway also come to Australia to study medicine.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9576387/

World class research is performed at Australian universities in the field of Medicine.

Really? I am baffled
You mean in undergrad? I have never heard of anyone doing Grad-entry from Norway. Our government will certainly not finance Grad entry students, and the deal with UNSW is over.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Brisbane and Sydney are two very different cities. Sydney is cosmopolitan and very international, its the most multicultural city in Australia as well. Brisbane is a small city and is changing, it could be more like Sydney or Melbourne in 20 years or so but is a fairly small town.