ur advice neeed

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
M

me_myself

Junior Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
Members don't see this ad.
hi guys..
i am an IMG with green card....my step 1 is in march 2nd week....i want to go 4 2007 psych residency....so i wud like 2 join a research in psychiatry anywhere in US..(where i can get a gud LOR)....or some observership,soon after my step 1....can u plz guide me where2 look 4 observerships?...like IM observerships,is it really tuff 2 get into?..and do i need ECFMG certification 2 get one??and any idea about psych externships?
and how difficult is it to enter the top programs in psychiatry 4 an IMG?.(like harvard etc)...and wat shud i do 2 make myself eligible 4 those top notch programs?
plzz advice me regarding this....sorry 2 bother u with so many Qs....any help highly appreciated.psychiatry is my passion..so i wud like 2 do the best i can.
 
me_myself said:
hi guys..
i am an IMG with green card....my step 1 is in march 2nd week....i want to go 4 2007 psych residency....so i wud like 2 join a research in psychiatry anywhere in US..(where i can get a gud LOR)....or some observership,soon after my step 1....can u plz guide me where2 look 4 observerships?...like IM observerships,is it really tuff 2 get into?..and do i need ECFMG certification 2 get one??and any idea about psych externships?
and how difficult is it to enter the top programs in psychiatry 4 an IMG?.(like harvard etc)...and wat shud i do 2 make myself eligible 4 those top notch programs?
plzz advice me regarding this....sorry 2 bother u with so many Qs....any help highly appreciated.psychiatry is my passion..so i wud like 2 do the best i can.
Click to expand...

go to www.fmgamerica.com and check out their program lists. it may not be 100% accurate but will offer a general guide.

i am an img and got an interview at harvard (south shore - harvard has 4 programs and this one is very IMG friendly - the others are not) and only had 1 score. i will be getting my step 2 ck score in a few days and this is after the interview. i think they like to have 85 atleast and research info. if u have time the most important thing i feel is psych observership which i didnt have. i had some minor research exp. try to have both scores in b4 november though. i only got 5 interviews with 1 score. i feel i would have had 20+ interviews with 2 scores.
 
i don't meen 2 be rud but u betr kwit that crzy lzy way ur writing bc it mite make it hard fer u 2 do well hear in tha usa. Ur knot helping ur coz.

mb
 
someone plzz help me.can someone plz enlighten me on the top grograms?..wat r the top notch programs in psychiatry like?
 
me_myself said:
someone plzz help me.can someone plz enlighten me on the top grograms?..wat r the top notch programs in psychiatry like?
Click to expand...

The most highly rated/perceived programs are, in all likelyhood, out of reach even for the most stellar of IMGs.

(Where do so many IMGs get the idea that top psych programs are 'easy'?)

I'd recommend you also take mamabear's advice on posting. It might help you get more responses. You may also wish to leaf through the threads on this forum, as it will give you a better idea of what a psychiatry residency is like.

Good luck.
 
thanx 4 ur advice....
but i dint really understand wat mamabear and u were suggesting!!!...wats wrong with my way of posting?plzz let me know that!!!i am more than willing 2 rectify my mistakes
 
me_myself said:
hi guys..
i am an IMG with green card....my step 1 is in march 2nd week....i want to go 4 2007 psych residency....so i wud like 2 join a research in psychiatry anywhere in US..(where i can get a gud LOR)....or some observership,soon after my step 1....can u plz guide me where2 look 4 observerships?...like IM observerships,is it really tuff 2 get into?..and do i need ECFMG certification 2 get one??and any idea about psych externships?
and how difficult is it to enter the top programs in psychiatry 4 an IMG?.(like harvard etc)...and wat shud i do 2 make myself eligible 4 those top notch programs?
plzz advice me regarding this....sorry 2 bother u with so many Qs....any help highly appreciated.psychiatry is my passion..so i wud like 2 do the best i can.
Click to expand...

This worries me. People with poor English skills in psychiatry. I talked to several psychiatry attendings who told me that they would rather equip psychologists with RxP than have IMGs in their residency programs -- two were from Harvard-affiliated programs.
 
Ha......Now this worries me.People with poor judging capabilities/biased views/racist feelings entering psychiatry.wHAT GOOD CAN THis SO CALLED PSEUDO-INTELLIGENTIA do to the mentally/emotionally disturbed people?When they themselves have certain issues to attend to?
I can understand the feelings of some AMGs,who despite all their efforts cannot compete with IMGs and their scores.Instead of venting your anger on other people ,try to channelise your emotions and get some decent scores.
I agree,a few IMGs are bad.But you cant generalise things.If I were to generalise,I should say that all americans are dumb and fit-for-nothing,with IQs equal to their age.
And what was wrong in my english ,which you were ranting about?So you mean to say that your TOEFL and GREs are dumb enough to award 1540/1600 and 289/300 to a guy who has 'poor English skills?'(you didnt even know that it is english and not English language)
If it is my cyber lingo that 'worries 'you ,I suggest you get some crash course in that(and a few courses in manners and etiquette would not hurt you)
 
PublicHealth said:
This worries me. People with poor English skills in psychiatry. I talked to several psychiatry attendings who told me that they would rather equip psychologists with RxP than have IMGs in their residency programs -- two were from Harvard-affiliated programs.
Click to expand...


I would definitely recommend an ESL course to anyone with poor English skills that is going into ANY field of medicine in the US.

PH- you always find ways of bringing in your RxP propaganda into our threads, I don't get why you didn't just go to a psychology program and saved yourself all the money and higher education you state is unecessory for Psychiatry.
 
I am new here to this forum, and I have been looking around to see what kind of students the field of psychiatry attracts. This is a good thread so far. I hope you all will continue to expose yourselves on both sides. I want to know what my competition will be like. Thank you.
 
Solideliquid said:
PH- you always find ways of bringing in your RxP propaganda into our threads, I don't get why you didn't just go to a psychology program and saved yourself all the money and higher education you state is unecessory for Psychiatry.
Click to expand...

Boo-hoo. I'm actually thinking about it, unless I can get behavioral neurology training in conjunction with psychiatry training. We'll see.

FMGs' negative influence on psychiatry is not strictly my opinion. This is well documented and observed in psychiatry residency programs nationwide. The information I posted regarding psychologist RxP was directly from the mouths of well-established and respected academic psychiatrists.

As published in Acad Psychiatry 2005 Jul-Aug;29(3):322-4:

"Attention in the psychiatric literature, as evidenced by a special issue of Academic Psychiatry (3) on the psychiatric workforce, has been primarily directed at advocating for the reduction of barriers that make entrance into the American medical system more difficult for IMGs and at the biases against IMGs in being selected for residency programs and in being hired for certain positions after the residency (4). However, very little has been written about the learning problems that have been identified in IMGs and even less about what might be done to deal with these problems (5).

"...the pass rates on the American Board of Psychiatry certifying examination reflect a significantly lower pass rate for IMGs (8). The rates are no longer reported to avoid stigmatizing IMGs. The Board, in an effort to improve the pass rates, has encouraged training centers to provide special board training experiences and has developed a program with the American Psychiatric Association at the State University of New York Downstate to offer special preparation for IMGs who have repeatedly failed the Board examination."

And from Arch Intern Med 2004 Mar 22;164(6):653-8:


BACKGROUND: There has been increasing attention devoted to patient safety. However, the focus has been on system improvements rather than individual physician performance issues. The purpose of this study was to determine if there is an association between certain physician characteristics and the likelihood of medical board-imposed discipline. METHODS: Unmatched, case-control study of 890 physicians disciplined by the Medical Board of California between July 1, 1998, and June 30, 2001, compared with 2981 randomly selected, nondisciplined controls. Odds ratios (ORs) were calculated for physician discipline with respect to age, sex, board certification, international medical school education, and specialty. RESULTS: Male sex (OR, 2.76; P<.001), lack of board certification (OR, 2.22; P<.001), increasing age (OR, 1.64; P<.001), and international medical school education (OR, 1.36; P<.001) were associated with an elevated risk for disciplinary action that included license revocation, practice suspension, probation, and public reprimand. The following specialties had an increased risk for discipline compared with internal medicine: family practice (OR, 1.68; P =.002); general practice (OR, 1.97, P =.001); obstetrics and gynecology (OR, 2.25; P<.001); and psychiatry (OR, 1.87; P<.001). Physicians in pediatrics (OR, 0.62; P =.001) and radiology (OR, 0.36; P<.001) were less likely to receive discipline compared with those in internal medicine. CONCLUSION: Certain physician characteristics and medical specialties are associated with an increased likelihood of discipline.
 
PublicHealth said:
Boo-hoo. I'm actually thinking about it, unless I can get behavioral neurology training in conjunction with psychiatry training. We'll see.

FMGs' negative influence on psychiatry is not strictly my opinion. This is well documented and observed in psychiatry residency programs nationwide. The information I posted regarding psychologist RxP was directly from the mouths of well-established and respected academic psychiatrists.
Click to expand...

What do you propose as a solution to the problem? Let me remind you the United States was founded by immigrants and has flourished more than many nations on this earth in terms of prosperity and human rights.
 
PublicHealth said:
Boo-hoo. I'm actually thinking about it, unless I can get behavioral neurology training in conjunction with psychiatry training. We'll see.

FMGs' negative influence on psychiatry is not strictly my opinion. This is well documented and observed in psychiatry residency programs nationwide. The information I posted regarding psychologist RxP was directly from the mouths of well-established and respected academic psychiatrists.

As published in Acad Psychiatry 2005 Jul-Aug;29(3):322-4:

"Attention in the psychiatric literature, as evidenced by a special issue of Academic Psychiatry (3) on the psychiatric workforce, has been primarily directed at advocating for the reduction of barriers that make entrance into the American medical system more difficult for IMGs and at the biases against IMGs in being selected for residency programs and in being hired for certain positions after the residency (4). However, very little has been written about the learning problems that have been identified in IMGs and even less about what might be done to deal with these problems (5).

"...the pass rates on the American Board of Psychiatry certifying examination reflect a significantly lower pass rate for IMGs (8). The rates are no longer reported to avoid stigmatizing IMGs. The Board, in an effort to improve the pass rates, has encouraged training centers to provide special board training experiences and has developed a program with the American Psychiatric Association at the State University of New York Downstate to offer special preparation for IMGs who have repeatedly failed the Board examination."

And from Arch Intern Med 2004 Mar 22;164(6):653-8:


BACKGROUND: There has been increasing attention devoted to patient safety. However, the focus has been on system improvements rather than individual physician performance issues. The purpose of this study was to determine if there is an association between certain physician characteristics and the likelihood of medical board-imposed discipline. METHODS: Unmatched, case-control study of 890 physicians disciplined by the Medical Board of California between July 1, 1998, and June 30, 2001, compared with 2981 randomly selected, nondisciplined controls. Odds ratios (ORs) were calculated for physician discipline with respect to age, sex, board certification, international medical school education, and specialty. RESULTS: Male sex (OR, 2.76; P<.001), lack of board certification (OR, 2.22; P<.001), increasing age (OR, 1.64; P<.001), and international medical school education (OR, 1.36; P<.001) were associated with an elevated risk for disciplinary action that included license revocation, practice suspension, probation, and public reprimand. The following specialties had an increased risk for discipline compared with internal medicine: family practice (OR, 1.68; P =.002); general practice (OR, 1.97, P =.001); obstetrics and gynecology (OR, 2.25; P<.001); and psychiatry (OR, 1.87; P<.001). Physicians in pediatrics (OR, 0.62; P =.001) and radiology (OR, 0.36; P<.001) were less likely to receive discipline compared with those in internal medicine. CONCLUSION: Certain physician characteristics and medical specialties are associated with an increased likelihood of discipline.
Click to expand...


I'm not sure how any of this would indicate "FMG's negative influence on psychiatry." Increased risk of disciplinary action is associated ith being an IMG AND being a psychiatrist, not necessarily being an IMG psychiatrist. Psychiatrists are at higher risk of complaints from patients because we deal with a population that has a higher predisposition to poorly defined boundaries and unreasonable expectations of their treaters. Maybe IMGs have a higher risk of disciplinary action (which is likely the result of pt complaint) because of bias against them (i.e. the same complaint wouldn't have been made against a USMG in the same situation). You sure can't tell from this data. I also can't see how this in any way makes an argument for psychologist prescribing. A complete medical education from anywhere is still better than none.
BTW, if you have any "well-established and respected academic psychiatrists" from Harvard who are actually advocating for psychologist prescribing, you might want to let the rest of organized psychology know... seems they could use the support. 😉
 
PublicHealth said:
Boo-hoo. I'm actually thinking about it, unless I can get behavioral neurology training in conjunction with psychiatry training. We'll see.

FMGs' negative influence on psychiatry is not strictly my opinion. This is well documented and observed in psychiatry residency programs nationwide. The information I posted regarding psychologist RxP was directly from the mouths of well-established and respected academic psychiatrists.

As published in Acad Psychiatry 2005 Jul-Aug;29(3):322-4:

"Attention in the psychiatric literature, as evidenced by a special issue of Academic Psychiatry (3) on the psychiatric workforce, has been primarily directed at advocating for the reduction of barriers that make entrance into the American medical system more difficult for IMGs and at the biases against IMGs in being selected for residency programs and in being hired for certain positions after the residency (4). However, very little has been written about the learning problems that have been identified in IMGs and even less about what might be done to deal with these problems (5).

"...the pass rates on the American Board of Psychiatry certifying examination reflect a significantly lower pass rate for IMGs (8). The rates are no longer reported to avoid stigmatizing IMGs. The Board, in an effort to improve the pass rates, has encouraged training centers to provide special board training experiences and has developed a program with the American Psychiatric Association at the State University of New York Downstate to offer special preparation for IMGs who have repeatedly failed the Board examination."

And from Arch Intern Med 2004 Mar 22;164(6):653-8:


BACKGROUND: There has been increasing attention devoted to patient safety. However, the focus has been on system improvements rather than individual physician performance issues. The purpose of this study was to determine if there is an association between certain physician characteristics and the likelihood of medical board-imposed discipline. METHODS: Unmatched, case-control study of 890 physicians disciplined by the Medical Board of California between July 1, 1998, and June 30, 2001, compared with 2981 randomly selected, nondisciplined controls. Odds ratios (ORs) were calculated for physician discipline with respect to age, sex, board certification, international medical school education, and specialty. RESULTS: Male sex (OR, 2.76; P<.001), lack of board certification (OR, 2.22; P<.001), increasing age (OR, 1.64; P<.001), and international medical school education (OR, 1.36; P<.001) were associated with an elevated risk for disciplinary action that included license revocation, practice suspension, probation, and public reprimand. The following specialties had an increased risk for discipline compared with internal medicine: family practice (OR, 1.68; P =.002); general practice (OR, 1.97, P =.001); obstetrics and gynecology (OR, 2.25; P<.001); and psychiatry (OR, 1.87; P<.001). Physicians in pediatrics (OR, 0.62; P =.001) and radiology (OR, 0.36; P<.001) were less likely to receive discipline compared with those in internal medicine. CONCLUSION: Certain physician characteristics and medical specialties are associated with an increased likelihood of discipline.
Click to expand...

You know, this is a tough one.

Sadly, I've met IMGs in psychiatry programs whose American English skills were IMO far from ideal. Worse, their cultural literacy was equally marginal. I have no doubt that these are deciding factors in the overall performances of IMGs on the Board examination as well as yielding a higher risk for disciplinary action. Though, I feel that part of the increased risk also comes from the perception of the physician as 'foreign'. As an 'outsider' they may lack some of the tools (cultural literacy) a native would have in protecting themselves from accusations.

This said, putting all IMGs into a single basket is equally misguided. If you were my patient, you would not know that I'm an IMG (by simple assumption -- I would, of course, disclose this). Yes, race helps. But, so do my language skills and cultural literacy.

BTW, do I understand the California study results? The abstract appears to indicate that there is a greater risk of being discliplined for psychiatrists of ALL stripes versus simply being an IMG.
 
Miklos said:
BTW, do I understand the California study results? The abstract appears to indicate that there is a greater risk of being discliplined for psychiatrists of ALL stripes versus simply being an IMG.
Click to expand...


I live in CA and it seems many here are elitists and anti-IMG in general. Are there studies in other states that have come to similar conclusions?
 
Doc Samson said:
BTW, if you have any "well-established and respected academic psychiatrists" from Harvard who are actually advocating for psychologist prescribing, you might want to let the rest of organized psychology know... seems they could use the support. 😉
Click to expand...

They're already involved. Psychologist RxP is alive and well.
 
lol trathalon - it takes all of two seconds for a thread to go into an IMG/psych RxP debate in the psych forum - trust me, these aren't the true "personalities" for the most part we're all pretty sociable, respectable and humble in here - sorry you got this as your first exposure!

+pad+ Poety is IMG friendly and has relented on the psych RxP since she just can't HANDLE the incessant arguments that ensue from its discussion 😀 😎 😛
 
I don't have cute children to nullify my hostility! 😡
 
I'm not really going to base any impressions on this thread. I am just enjoying the show. This debate is interesting though, both sides have good points in theory. Some foreign psychiatrists may have a problem communicating, this being a field dependent on communication, that can become a risk. But on the other hand there are PLENTY of home grown americans that do too. The most well rounded well spoken doctor in the world will be unable to connect with and have insight to some patients. We all have a part to play. When it comes down to it, the true test is whether or not you can help your patient.
 
Sorry if I hurt any AMGs in my reply to one PublicHealth.I have all respects for the americans, who according to me are well mannered and extremely tolerant.I am amazed by the way you guys are friendly with asian immigrants,despite all those terrorist attacks.I would not imagine any asian country behaving the same way towards foreigners.
That was my first post in ths site,infact I am very new here.And I was very disappointed with the way that guy posted.I am looking forward for more help from you.
 
This thread brings to mind several issues. One I would like to talk about is physicians' ability to communicate with their patients. We hear very often that poor communications is one of the catalysts for lawsuits, or maybe even the impetus. IMGs are fine; the diversity they bring to medicine is good for the field. Their poor English skills, however, is bad for medicine. It's an issue like this that may have led to the creation of step 2 CS. Of course there are plenty of IMGs here that speak English well, and perhaps even better than some of our natives--no region in particular. But we are all familiar with the IMGs that can't pronounce the language to save their lives. And can you imagine elderly patients whose hearing and listening skills might be a little blunted? They sure can't understand. And then there's patients who aren't accustomed to interacting to people with a strong accent. A freind of mine recently exeperienced this.

He is 28 and went to a GI doc. The guy is Indian and my friend couldn't make sense of anything the doc said. He left frustrated and angry and demanded a different doctor. I imagine this scenario is very common.

So we can't generalize but the IMGs ought to speak good, intelligible English.

Q
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
Rank List Advice
Replies
0
Views
571
StoneWhisper1882
S
M
M4 rank advice!
Replies
3
Views
580
comp1
C
M
  • Poll Poll
rank advice for M4?
Replies
10
Views
1K
comp1
C
U
rank list advice
Replies
2
Views
871
clozareal
clozareal
psychlover711
Rank List Advice
Replies
7
Views
1K
Stagg737
Stagg737
Top