URM or ORM - Filipinos?

[strugstofunc]

I understand that Filipinos are well-represented in healthcare, but that is in terms of nursing, laboratory technicians, etc. Statistics show that Filipinos are relatively under-represented within the Asian category. What do you guys think? I recently was intrigued by this question when a medical student from a top tier medical school asked me if I thought I was Asian (usually ORM) or Pacific Islander (URM). They believe that Filipinos are under-represented. This medical student is URM and that is as far as I feel comfortable disclosing.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[LizzyM]

How does the Census Bureau define the races?
See About Race

The U.S. Census Bureau must adhere to the 1997 Office of Management and Budget (OMB) standards on race and ethnicity which guide the Census Bureau in classifying written responses to the race question:

White – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.

Black or African American – A person having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa.

American Indian or Alaska Native – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America) and who maintains tribal affiliation or community attachment.

Asian – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam.

Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, or other Pacific Islands.

Also see: Underrepresented in Medicine Definition - Initiatives - AAMC

On March 19, 2004, the AAMC Executive Committee adopted a clarification to its definition of "underrepresented in medicine" following the Supreme Court's decision in Grutter.

The AAMC definition of underrepresented in medicine is:

"Underrepresented in medicine means those racial and ethnic populations that are underrepresented in the medical profession relative to their numbers in the general population."

Adopted by the AAMC's Executive Council on June 26, 2003, the definition helps medical schools accomplish three important objectives:

• a shift in focus from a fixed aggregation of four racial and ethnic groups to a continually evolving underlying reality. The definition accommodates including and removing underrepresented groups on the basis of changing demographics of society and the profession,
• a shift in focus from a national perspective to a regional or local perspective on underrepresentation, and
• stimulate data collection and reporting on the broad range of racial and ethnic self-descriptions.

Before June 26, 2003, the AAMC used the term "underrepresented minority (URM)," which consisted of Blacks, Mexican-Americans, Native Americans (that is, American Indians, Alaska Natives, and Native Hawaiians), and mainland Puerto Ricans. The AAMC remains committed to ensuring access to medical education and medicine-related careers for individuals from these four historically underrepresented racial/ethnic groups.


So, it is most appropriate according to the US Census Bureau for someone having origins in the people of the Philippine Islands to self-identify as Asian. It would be up to each school to decide for itself whether Asians of Filipino ancestry are underrepresented in medicine in the region served by that school. You should answer as you will answer the 2020 US Census and let schools decide what to do with that information.

 

[strugstofunc]

@LizzyM that is interesting that you mentioned the 2020 US Census. I wrote a paper that cited the exact passage you pasted and discovered that the US Census would reconsider Filipinos as Pacific Islander, depending on what people identify as. It's a weird place to be in, as our racial identity might be relatively fluid that year.

 

[LizzyM]

there are 3.4 million Filipinos in the US. There are 1.1 physicians per 1,000 people in the US. Therefore, to be proportional, we'd expect not less than 3,740 Filippino-American physicians in the US. Data from the AAMC in 2008 showed 2,079 Filipino physicians. https://www.aamc.org/download/432976/data/factsandfigures2010.pdf Therefore, it could be said that Filipino's are URM nationally but it is up to each medical school to make a decision for itself.

If you trace your lineage to the Spanish colonists of the Philippines, then you might self-identify as Hispanic. The US Census Bureau defines it in this way:
Hispanic origin can be viewed as the heritage, nationality, lineage, or country of birth of the person or the person’s parents or ancestors before arriving in the United States. People who identify as Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish may be any race. If you would identify on the 2020 US census as Hispanic, then it might be appropriate to self-identify in this way on the AMCAS application.

 

[strugstofunc]

I appreciate the data sheet! I've been trying to find more statistics on this too, so this is greatly appreciated. Do you know if there is a resource that tells us the opinions of different medical school institutions? Other threads mentioned things like "this institution views this ethnicity as URM/ORM". I was wondering if there was a single place for that info. @LizzyM

 

[LizzyM]

I appreciate the data sheet! I've been trying to find more statistics on this too, so this is greatly appreciated. Do you know if there is a resource that tells us the opinions of different medical school institutions? Other threads mentioned things like "this institution views this ethnicity as URM/ORM". I was wondering if there was a single place for that info. @LizzyM

I highly doubt that any school will publicize there policies/definitions of URM. Your best bet is to apply to the schools that are the best fit for you assuming no "bump" for URM status and perhaps get that bump than to expect the bump, not get it, and later find that all your schools were reaches.

 

[getdown]

Just mark down Asian and the subsequent subcategory and be done with it. When you see patients they won't care which type of Asian you are unless you happen to speak their language.

 

[deleted480308]

Due to the racial discrimination that the URM system places against asians, I would not make being asian a central part of your application

Good luck with the application season

 

[beeboops]

It differs from school to school. The only one I can think of off the top of my head that explicitly considers Filipinos URM is VCOM-Blacksburg (unclear on the other VCOM campuses).

I think that most adcoms recognize that Filipinos aren’t represented proportionally in the Asian med student/physician population, but like other posters have said, I wouldn’t expect a boost from it.

 

[atomi]

Due to the racial discrimination that the URM system places against asians, I would not make being asian a central part of your application

Good luck with the application season

To be precise, the URM factor in admissions technically introduces an element of racial discrimination against everyone. Because introducing race as a factor in admissions is by definition discriminating applicants based on race.

The best you can do is exercise your right to decline to answer such an irrelevant question, but that will just default you to whatever group is considered least marginalized by the reviewers.

To be ideologically consistent with other philosophies exposued by academia, I would think a Filipino should not have to be forced to identify with Asians if he/she/other does not identify with that group. But I have learned long ago not to expect ideological consistency from academia.

For what it’s worth, my s.o. is Filipino and thinks this pigeonholing is absurd.

 

[deleted480308]

To be precise, the URM factor in admissions technically introduces an element of racial discrimination against everyone. Because introducing race as a factor in admissions is by definition discriminating applicants based on race.

The best you can do is exercise your right to decline to answer such an irrelevant question, but that will just default you to whatever group is considered least marginalized by the reviewers.

To be ideologically consistent with other philosophies exposued by academia, I would think a Filipino should not have to be forced to identify with Asians if he/she/other does not identify with that group. But I have learned long ago not to expect ideological consistency from academia.

For what it’s worth, my s.o. is Filipino and thinks this pigeonholing is absurd.

The system racially discriminates FOR some applicants

 

[Goro]

The system racially discriminates FOR some applicants

SPF is that way ->

 

[atomi]

The system racially discriminates FOR some applicants

Not sure if you’re trying to disagree with me. But apparently when you used the word against and I used it, we meant two different things. My opinion is that racial discrimination is wrong in admissions in all cases, because when you discriminate in favor of someone based on race you are indirectly discriminating against someone else on the basis of race.

To get back to the OP, it’s honestly not worth fighting this fight at your stage. The fight needs to be fought for sure, but for now play the game until you can get to a point where you can effect meaningful change if it matters to you without self-immolating. Select Asian and move on if there’s no option to specify Filipino. In a gray area like this, no one’s going to fault you for selecting an ORM group, but unfortunately might fault you for selecting a URM group.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Please keep the thread on topic. The thread is not about the pluses/minuses of the URM system or whether it is right or wrong, it is about whether Filipinos are URM or ORM.

 

[panbimbo]

Please keep the thread on topic. The thread is not about the pluses/minuses of the URM system or whether it is right or wrong, it is about whether Filipinos are URM or ORM.

If I had a dollar every time a thread like this goes sour, I'd probably out of undergrad debt.

 

[deleted480308]

Please keep the thread on topic. The thread is not about the pluses/minuses of the URM system or whether it is right or wrong, it is about whether Filipinos are URM or ORM.

I specifically stayed out of right or wrong and am trying to help the op by answering the question. Given that filipino applicants are often lumped in with asians there is danger of being racially discriminated against if they put asian and get treated as ORM

They have to weigh that against any percieved odds of getting discriminated for as a URM if they are viewed as solely filipino.

I don’t think it’s worth the risk to the applicant

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I specifically stayed out of right or wrong and am trying to help the op by answering the question. Given that filipino applicants are often lumped in with asians there is danger of being racially discriminated against if they put asian and get treated as ORM

They have to weigh that against any percieved odds of getting discriminated for as a URM if they are viewed as solely filipino.

I don’t think it’s worth the risk to the applicant

You’re fine. I can just see where the thread could easily go (since pretty much all of these do), and I’m reminding everyone to not go there.

 

[deleted480308]

You’re fine. I can just see where the thread could easily go (since pretty much all of these do), and I’m reminding everyone to not go there.

I think that's an appropriate guard rail to remind folks of

 

[PeleHonuaMea]

@LizzyM that is interesting that you mentioned the 2020 US Census. I wrote a paper that cited the exact passage you pasted and discovered that the US Census would reconsider Filipinos as Pacific Islander, depending on what people identify as. It's a weird place to be in, as our racial identity might be relatively fluid that year.

Ummm... I dont believe the 2020 census will "reconsider" Filipinos as Pacific Islanders, that was clarified by the Census Bureau a while ago. They will still be identified as Asians.

Not sure why or how they would be considered Pacific Islanders. Pacific Islanders are those from:
1) Polynesia
2) Melanesia
3) Micronesia

Filipinos do NOT belong to any of those 3 groups.

 

[Mad Jack]

Statistically, Filipinos are ORM due to a great number of Filipino physicians that came to the US in the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s that led to numbers far in excess of the Filipino percentage in the general population practicing medicine. Back in the day I helped a then-fiancee do a great deal of research on the topic, down to looking for any schools that offer URM status to specific groups within the Asian community (as there are a few exceptions here and there I can no longer remember, I believe they were for Cambodians and Malaysians at a few specific schools, but this is many years ago). No such exceptions existed for Filipinos due to their heavily overrepresented status due to so many physicians immigrating here in past decades.

 

[Mad Jack]

@LizzyM that is interesting that you mentioned the 2020 US Census. I wrote a paper that cited the exact passage you pasted and discovered that the US Census would reconsider Filipinos as Pacific Islander, depending on what people identify as. It's a weird place to be in, as our racial identity might be relatively fluid that year.

The only article I can find referring to this is a joke on an Onion-like website poking fun at exactly how ignorant such a change would be

U.S. CENSUS BUREAU TO RECLASSIFY FILIPINOS FROM ‘ASIAN’ TO ‘PACIFIC ISLANDER’

Pacific islanders have a very specific cultural and linguistic origin that Filipinos just don't fall into in the slightest.

 

[LizzyM]

Statistically, Filipinos are ORM due to a great number of Filipino physicians that came to the US in the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s that led to numbers far in excess of the Filipino percentage in the general population practicing medicine. Back in the day I helped a then-fiancee do a great deal of research on the topic, down to looking for any schools that offer URM status to specific groups within the Asian community (as there are a few exceptions here and there I can no longer remember, I believe they were for Cambodians and Malaysians at a few specific schools, but this is many years ago). No such exceptions existed for Filipinos due to their heavily overrepresented status due to so many physicians immigrating here in past decades.

Ahha! I had missed that in the AAMC diversity publication: it counts only US med school grads, not IMGs. When IMGs are included, Filipinos may be ORM or at least proportionally represented in the population.

 

[PTPuser]

I think the overall answer to ANY of these thread / question is that it's all depends on the bloody school. Be honest and roll with it. This is not something you wanna fudge and give a sense of dishonesty. There are more applicants than seats. Don't give them a reason not to trust you or try to game the system. Don't f88K it up.

 

[RNthenDoc]

Nagsasalita ka ba ng Tagalog?

 

[ZeroTouchMeNot]

Nagsasalita ka ba ng Tagalog?

Not OP, but yes. I'm a Filipino (non-American). Can I ask you some questions regarding MD school applications in the US?

 

[deleted859689]

Parents came in the 90s for residency after doing med school at UP

 

[ZeroTouchMeNot]

Parents came in the 90s for residency after doing med school at UP

Out of curiosity, are there a lot of Filipino Americans who went/go to MD/DO schools in the US? Or is Nursing still the popular option amongst Filipino Americans in the US?

 

[Gibbward]

Out of curiosity, are there a lot of Filipino Americans who went/go to MD/DO schools in the US? Or is Nursing still the popular option amongst Filipino Americans in the US?

You mean come to the US for college then med school? Or go to college in the Philippines and then go the US for med school? Or do med school in the Philippines and then do residency in the US? I would say the 1st is rare but I know people that did it, 2nd is impossible unless they redo college in the US, and then the 3rd is probably the most likely from those 3.

As for the nursing question, I don't think getting a working visa for a nursing gig is as widespread now as it was a decade ago, but it def happens more than the med school route.

 

[ZeroTouchMeNot]

You mean come to the US for college then med school? Or go to college in the Philippines and then go the US for med school? Or do med school in the Philippines and then do residency in the US? I would say the 1st is rare but I know people that did it, 2nd is impossible unless they redo college in the US, and then the 3rd is probably the most likely from those 3.

As for the nursing question, I don't think getting a working visa for a nursing gig is as widespread now as it was a decade ago, but it def happens more than the med school route.

As for the 3rd case, what specialties do they usually end up in?

 

[deleted859689]

As for the 3rd case, what specialties do they usually end up in?

Gas and ped heme/onc for my folks

 

[Gibbward]

As for the 3rd case, what specialties do they usually end up in?

Anecdotally, I know people that recently matched in IM, FM, neuro and pediatrics. I've also met a handful of attendings that immigrated in the 90s in FM, IM and peds subspecialties. I'm not sure though if there are any hard data (or at least I'm too lazy to find it if it exists lol) of how many MDs from the Philippines match each year, or what specialties they match into.

 

[gyngyn]

In California in the 90's, the Philippines was second only to India as a source of foreign trained physician immigration.
The numbers were so significant that the Medical Board sent members to both countries to evaluate the quality of education in those countries.