US NEWS Rankings are officially out...

[jbz24]

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The primary care rankings are completely worthless, but one thing I always thought best summed up their uselessness was how much schools' rankings changed between years. One year a school jumped thirty or forty spots.

While the research rankings don't really indicate much either, I usually find them at least a little valuable in having some correlation with the prestige of a medical school. That schools made very slight changes in rankings, if they did at all, helped reinforce this value for me. But this year there's been some pretty significant movement - Michigan's rise, Baylor's fall - and it makes me question if even the prestige factor of the rankings is being lost?

I don't have much of a connection to Texas, but what I've heard over the past couple of years is that Baylor's reputation has indeed taken a hit. Besides their recent financial mess, I'm not sure what else happened - did that drive certain faculty away? As for Michigan, although it moved up 5 spots, it really only moved past 2 schools (Columbia and Stanford) because of the four-way tie at #6.

 

[obiwan]

I don't have much of a connection to Texas, but what I've heard over the past couple of years is that Baylor's reputation has indeed taken a hit. Besides their recent financial mess, I'm not sure what else happened - did that drive certain faculty away? As for Michigan, although it moved up 5 spots, it really only moved past 2 schools (Columbia and Stanford) because of the four-way tie at #6.

i think being bankrupt is pretty bad for a medical school

 

[Cleavername]

Did they build this ranking specifically for Harvard? 100 points and Penn has 81 and is 2nd...

it says reseach rank. i think its refering to how good of a school it is for research?

 

[drizzt3117]

Before saying the rankings are useless, I think it might be of some value to consider what the methodology is that's used to calculate the rankings. As I alluded to before, there are likely significant reasons for big changes.

 

[lifehouse51]

Guys, my advice is: Prestige of the school does help when it comes to residency application. However, you're also compared to others in your class, so at a highly-ranked school, it may also be harder to shine.

Also among schools that are in the same "tier", choose one with a geographical location you like, and one with clinical opportunities that suit your career goals (I Personally think Pre-meds put too much emphasis on the 1st and 2nd pre-clinical years of the education, which are really not *that* important)

I chose my med School and Residency Program based on both location (West Coast for Med School, East Coast for Residency) and quality of training/prestige. That combination worked out the best for me.

 

[BBender716]

Before saying the rankings are useless, I think it might be of some value to consider what the methodology is that's used to calculate the rankings. As I alluded to before, there are likely significant reasons for big changes.

Your avatar always makes me chuckle. Awesome choice! 👍

 

[lifehouse51]

I don't have much of a connection to Texas, but what I've heard over the past couple of years is that Baylor's reputation has indeed taken a hit. Besides their recent financial mess, I'm not sure what else happened - did that drive certain faculty away?

Baylor's rapid fall was a surprise in a way, but can't say I'm totally shocked. There had recently been a lot of problems there, including the split with Methodist Hospital, which was probably one of its best teaching affiliate, and the loss of a lot of good faculty members. It's a shame that it happened. However, when I think back to my med school days, at that time Univ of CHicago fell to close to out of the Top 20, and later on it rebound. The reality is, ranking can fluctuate from year to year, trend is more informative

 

[Narmerguy]

Before saying the rankings are useless, I think it might be of some value to consider what the methodology is that's used to calculate the rankings. As I alluded to before, there are likely significant reasons for big changes.

Though the meaning of the rankings are overplayed, I think there are some merits in the rankings that shouldn't be ignored.

 

[dw2158]

my 2 cents... without having looked at the rankings (only saw what people posted in this thread)... prestige matters to me, personally. you're free to think i'm a tool for feeling that way. just being honest. USNews rankings, however, do not matter to me at all. i think on SDN people tend to conflate high USNews ranking with prestige, which is not entirely accurate. seriously, who's going to say a school like stanford or hopkins is any less prestigious because it fell however many spots in a given year?

 

[Bacchus]

Everyone is picking on Baylor. I bet it won't receive applications for the upcoming cycle.

 

[lifehouse51]

my 2 cents... without having looked at the rankings (only saw what people posted in this thread)... prestige matters to me, personally. you're free to think i'm a tool for feeling that way. just being honest. USNews rankings, however, do not matter to me at all. i think on SDN people tend to conflate high USNews ranking with prestige, which is not entirely accurate. seriously, who's going to say a school like stanford or hopkins is any less prestigious because it fell however many spots in a given year?

Plus if you know what specialty you wanna go to, it helps to go to a school with a strong reputation in that specialty as well. For my chosen specialty (Pathology),the big names are usually the East and West Coast programs, plus places like Wash U, UTSW, Emory, Cleveland Clinic, etc.

 

[jj6vcb]

All those zillion-way ties always bug me. I wish they'd just rank based on total points instead so Duke would be 6th (6th highest point total), Columbia would be 7th (the 7th highest point total), etc. It always seems a little silly to me that you get stuck 5 places lower just cause there are a bunch of schools with the same total.

In other news, counting for the fact that differences between 5-10 spots are negligible...almost nothing happened. And what has happened can't be interpreted. Good ol' UsNews.

Of course, all the SDNers are soapboxing about how useless they are, but I suspect there are some Michigan folk out there that are feeling vindicated, and Penn people that are now thinking about how they overcame a couple of giants, and they're still pretending not to care. Oh and I bet this will affect applications...a LOT.

Why? So schools that have a lower score than 14 other schools can claim to be top 10? When two athletes tie for second in the olympics they give a gold and two silvers, no bronze. No one shouts out then that they should give out four medals

 

[drizzt3117]

my 2 cents... without having looked at the rankings (only saw what people posted in this thread)... prestige matters to me, personally. you're free to think i'm a tool for feeling that way. just being honest. USNews rankings, however, do not matter to me at all. i think on SDN people tend to conflate high USNews ranking with prestige, which is not entirely accurate. seriously, who's going to say a school like stanford or hopkins is any less prestigious because it fell however many spots in a given year?

I think there's a lot that goes into this.

What do you mean by prestige? prestige of a given med school to the general population? Prestige in the medical field? Saying you went to say Dartmouth might make it sound more prestigious to random people than UCSF, Univ of Washington, whatever. I'm from the Midwest and didn't even know what UCSF was until I started researching med schools.

This leads to my next point, which is that unless you just want a pretty diploma on your wall, or to tell your patients you went to med school at harvard just for fun, presumably you want prestige bc you think it'll help with residency. There again, there's an even larger divide between "prestige" in the public and "people in the know" where those people are a small subset of the medical community. For example, if you told people you did your neurosurg residency at bni, most of the general public and even a lot of people in the medical community would be like "where? Arizona?" where neurosurgeons would likely be impressed. This stuff changes very quickly too. For example, my PI told me last year Miami was a good place to train for NIR fellowship but when I talked to him this year he said that their culture had shifted a bit from IR towards neurosurg so he wasn't sure he'd rank it as high.

Finally, there's what you do with it. My preceptor for primary care is a fabulous clinician who did med school and residency at Yale. He's a family physician in the town he grew up in, and sees a broad spectrum of patients including sometimes 3-4 generations from the same family. My first year PC preceptor went to Michigan for med school and residency and has a thriving clinic targeted towards underserved females. Both are fantastic doctors who are smart and well trained but their patients couldn't care less that they went to top 10 med schools. If you're dead set on a career in academic medicine (I fit into this category) then maybe it will make a difference where you went to med school in getting into residency or whatever, but I think the last segment in your training is the most important or where you end up. If you wind up as a full prof at HMS or Hopkins, are people going to care where you went to med school? One might argue it's harder to get the job otherwise but I'd hypothesize that of all the factors considered, your med school would be down the list.

 

[drizzt3117]

Plus if you know what specialty you wanna go to, it helps to go to a school with a strong reputation in that specialty as well. For my chosen specialty (Pathology),the big names are usually the East and West Coast programs, plus places like Wash U, UTSW, Emory, Cleveland Clinic, etc.

Mayo? Seems like in many ways they're the 500 lb gorilla in the rm in path, others might question the exposure med students and even residents would get compared to fellows tho.

 

[dw2158]

I think there's a lot that goes into this.

What do you mean by prestige? prestige of a given med school to the general population? Prestige in the medical field? Saying you went to say Dartmouth might make it sound more prestigious to random people than UCSF, Univ of Washington, whatever. I'm from the Midwest and didn't even know what UCSF was until I started researching med schools.

This leads to my next point, which is that unless you just want a pretty diploma on your wall, or to tell your patients you went to med school at harvard just for fun, presumably you want prestige bc you think it'll help with residency. There again, there's an even larger divide between "prestige" in the public and "people in the know" where those people are a small subset of the medical community. For example, if you told people you did your neurosurg residency at bni, most of the general public and even a lot of people in the medical community would be like "where? Arizona?" where neurosurgeons would likely be impressed. This stuff changes very quickly too. For example, my PI told me last year Miami was a good place to train for NIR fellowship but when I talked to him this year he said that their culture had shifted a bit from IR towards neurosurg so he wasn't sure he'd rank it as high.

Finally, there's what you do with it. My preceptor for primary care is a fabulous clinician who did med school and residency at Yale. He's a family physician in the town he grew up in, and sees a broad spectrum of patients including sometimes 3-4 generations from the same family. My first year PC preceptor went to Michigan for med school and residency and has a thriving clinic targeted towards underserved females. Both are fantastic doctors who are smart and well trained but their patients couldn't care less that they went to top 10 med schools. If you're dead set on a career in academic medicine (I fit into this category) then maybe it will make a difference where you went to med school in getting into residency or whatever, but I think the last segment in your training is the most important or where you end up. If you wind up as a full prof at HMS or Hopkins, are people going to care where you went to med school? One might argue it's harder to get the job otherwise but I'd hypothesize that of all the factors considered, your med school would be down the list.

prestige, to me = being able to feel awesome about my answer to the question, "where do you go to school?" i really didn't even read your post; i'm not especially interested in being told why it's good or bad to care about prestige. i was just stating how i felt, and expressing my belief that people on SDN tend to conflate prestige with high USNews ranking.

 

[alibai3ah]

my 2 cents... without having looked at the rankings (only saw what people posted in this thread)... prestige matters to me, personally. you're free to think i'm a tool for feeling that way. just being honest. USNews rankings, however, do not matter to me at all. i think on SDN people tend to conflate high USNews ranking with prestige, which is not entirely accurate. seriously, who's going to say a school like stanford or hopkins is any less prestigious because it fell however many spots in a given year?

I for sure agree with this statement here..... Prestige is not really correlated with US News Rankings (at least not all the time).

Lots of schools are prestigious that are just not ranked very high (Darthmouth, Brown, NYU, Georgetown, etc.). On the other hand, lots of schools are ranked high that are just not prestigious (Ohio State, UofAlabama, etc.). Basically the latter schools are those where you have to defend your answer and convince people that the schools weren't a safety and are actually good (aka not prestigious). That's how I define it.

 

[alibai3ah]

This leads to my next point, which is that unless you just want a pretty diploma on your wall, or to tell your patients you went to med school at harvard just for fun, presumably you want prestige bc you think it'll help with residency.

Some people like it not b/c of the residency factor, but it makes them feel good inside. They feel proud and I don't really think there is anything wrong with that (as long as they don't insult others).

 

[jbz24]

I for sure agree with this statement here..... Prestige is not really correlated with US News Rankings (at least not all the time).

Lots of schools are prestigious that are just not ranked very high (Darthmouth, Brown, NYU, Georgetown, etc.). On the other hand, lots of schools are ranked high that are just not prestigious (Ohio State, UofAlabama, etc.). Basically the latter schools are those where you have to defend your answer and convince people that the schools weren't a safety and are actually good (aka not prestigious).

On a side note if prestige matters to you, Stanford is and always will be a Top 5 institution in this country (may even be in the Top 3 comparable to Yale, Harvard). There is no doubt about it.

In my opinion, US News somewhat correlates with prestige. I think there's certain reasons why some people disagree with it though. For example, I bet you think Dartmouth, Brown, NYU, and Georgetown are prestigious because their undergrad reputations are great. The fact of the matter is that the med schools are not nearly as reputable as their undergrads are, and residency programs even less reputable (at least in IM, which is really all I'm familiar with). I have this same problem when comparing east and west coast schools. To me, Stanford is not a top 10 school. The only Cali school in my mind that belongs there is UCSF. Coming from the east coast, I always here about people wanting to train in UCSF (if they want to go to the west coast), I hear about research in UCSF, and faculty at UCSF. Stanford never comes up. But that's obviously one of my biases, which surprisingly, for the first time agrees with US News rankings.

I think most of us can agree that small rank discrepancies between schools or small changes in rank mean nothing. But I do feel that the list US News has does somewhat correlate to my perception of prestige.

 

[drizzt3117]

I generally agree that prestige correlates reasonably well with us news, with a few exceptions.

Regarding stanford, I think one of the reasons that it's not the best regarded for residency is because their hospital is so suburban with a relatively low caseload compared to ucsf. Their strengths are in research, and some more upscale residency programs like derm, oncology, path, etc. Then again, with a few notable exceptions (mgh, jhu, ccf, mayo, ucsf) very few programs have are elite in nearly every specialty.

In my opinion, US News somewhat correlates with prestige. I think there's certain reasons why some people disagree with it though. For example, I bet you think Dartmouth, Brown, NYU, and Georgetown are prestigious because their undergrad reputations are great. The fact of the matter is that the med schools are not nearly as reputable as their undergrads are, and residency programs even less reputable (at least in IM, which is really all I'm familiar with). I have this same problem when comparing east and west coast schools. To me, Stanford is not a top 10 school. The only Cali school in my mind that belongs there is UCSF. Coming from the east coast, I always here about people wanting to train in UCSF (if they want to go to the west coast), I hear about research in UCSF, and faculty at UCSF. Stanford never comes up. But that's obviously one of my biases, which surprisingly, for the first time agrees with US News rankings.

I think most of us can agree that small rank discrepancies between schools or small changes in rank mean nothing. But I do feel that the list US News has does somewhat correlate to my perception of prestige.

 

[jbz24]

I generally agree that prestige correlates reasonably well with us news, with a few exceptions.

Regarding stanford, I think one of the reasons that it's not the best regarded for residency is because their hospital is so suburban with a relatively low caseload compared to ucsf. Their strengths are in research, and some more upscale residency programs like derm, oncology, path, etc. Then again, with a few notable exceptions (mgh, jhu, ccf, mayo, ucsf) very few programs have are elite in nearly every specialty.

Yes, I think you make good points, seems to be consistent with what I've heard.

Also on an unrelated note, do you think ccf (and maybe mayo) should be included? Seems like their IM program is very undesirable, although they have some very good fellowships, like cardiology. Just wondering your opinion.

 

[neurolddoc]

prestige, to me = being able to feel awesome about my answer to the question, "where do you go to school?" i really didn't even read your post; i'm not especially interested in being told why it's good or bad to care about prestige. i was just stating how i felt, and expressing my belief that people on SDN tend to conflate prestige with high USNews ranking.

Therein lies one of the difficulties with the prestige/name recognition calculus. Penn and UCSF are obviously two of the finest medical institutions in the country but if you go west of I-77 and tell somebody you went to Penn, you will get the response "oh yeh, can you believe Joe Paterno still going strong after all those years!" The mention of UCSF outside of the medical community or California will draw a blank stare.

 

[coralfangs]

Guys, my advice is: Prestige of the school does help when it comes to residency application. However, you're also compared to others in your class, so at a highly-ranked school, it may also be harder to shine.

Also among schools that are in the same "tier", choose one with a geographical location you like, and one with clinical opportunities that suit your career goals (I Personally think Pre-meds put too much emphasis on the 1st and 2nd pre-clinical years of the education, which are really not *that* important)

I chose my med School and Residency Program based on both location (West Coast for Med School, East Coast for Residency) and quality of training/prestige. That combination worked out the best for me.

exactly, I still can't believe how many med school kids out there still believe that school prestige has nothing to do with your future career. I think it's just sour grape. The prestige of a school does help when you apply for residency.
Before I went to med school, I worked with several attendings and chiefs involved in the app process, and they specifically advised me against attending a school at my desired location that is ranked much lower than my current school.

 

[twostep376]

.

 

[dw2158]

Therein lies one of the difficulties with the prestige/name recognition calculus. Penn and UCSF are obviously two of the finest medical institutions in the country but if you go west of I-77 and tell somebody you went to Penn, you will get the response "oh yeh, can you believe Joe Paterno still going strong after all those years!" The mention of UCSF outside of the medical community or California will draw a blank stare.

truth. but i never said it was a perfect system! nor did i say it was my only consideration in choosing a school... it's just something i think about.

 

[Narmerguy]

prestige, to me = being able to feel awesome about my answer to the question, "where do you go to school?" i really didn't even read your post; i'm not especially interested in being told why it's good or bad to care about prestige. i was just stating how i felt, and expressing my belief that people on SDN tend to conflate prestige with high USNews ranking.

You're always very defensive on this issue. I feel similar to you about prestige but I'm just confused about why you are always so defensive. Not everyone is out to attack you, even when they do disagree.

 

[JokerMD]

prestige (within the medical community, not in the lay community at large) IS pretty important. just look at the match lists for top USNEWS schools versus the the bottom. the difference becomes obvious. Also, if you look at the average step 1 scores, the top schools dont ALWAYS have the highest averages. so prestige probably plays some role...

 

[dw2158]

You're always very defensive on this issue. I feel similar to you about prestige but I'm just confused about why you are always so defensive. Not everyone is out to attack you, even when they do disagree.

i'm defensive because i've been flamed a lot for thinking this way! same with issues surrounding debt.

 

[jbz24]

i'm defensive because i've been flamed a lot for thinking this way! same with issues surrounding debt.

Yes, sadly SDN is very anti-prestige. Nothing wrong with this thinking.

 

[bamtuba]

OMG!

Mayo Unranked!?!?!

THAT'S IT!

I'm giving up my acceptance there!

😡

or not...

😀

(guess someone there REALLY doesn't care about the rankings. Or forgot to turn in the forms...)

🙂

 

[Naijaba]

prestige, to me = being able to feel awesome about my answer to the question, "where do you go to school?" i really didn't even read your post; i'm not especially interested in being told why it's good or bad to care about prestige. i was just stating how i felt, and expressing my belief that people on SDN tend to conflate prestige with high USNews ranking.

Deep down I think many of us understand what you mean. I worked really hard as an undergrad and while I'm humbled by the acceptances that I've received, it is a little disappointing that my friends and family in California respond "Are those good schools?" when I tell them that I may go to Boston University or Dartmouth [well duh they're good!]. Oh btw, the AVERAGE Californian has not heard of Dartmouth, JHU, UCSF or UPenn, so I'm talking about common prestige, not prestige in the medical world.

Edit: Actually, the first time that I knew about JHU was from House three years ago : )

 

[BBender716]

Deep down I think many of us understand what you mean. I worked really hard as an undergrad and while I'm humbled by the acceptances that I've received, it is a little disappointing that my friends and family in California respond "Are those good schools?" when I tell them that I may go to Boston University or Dartmouth [well duh they're good!]. Oh btw, the AVERAGE Californian has not heard of Dartmouth, JHU, UCSF or UPenn, so I'm talking about common prestige, not prestige in the medical world.

Edit: Actually, the first time that I knew about JHU was from House three years ago : )

I feel like they had to have heard of Hopkins. I mean, they do watch House... 😉

 

[Infinitydrop]

i'm defensive because i've been flamed a lot for thinking this way! same with issues surrounding debt.

people flame you on these issues because you don't seem to be following your own advise at all.

you say you don't care about rankings, but you are prestige driven? There's a lot of great schools whose SOLE prestige comes from their highly ranked medical school and hospital and I can't think of a better example than mt.sinai.

you say you will follow the money, but you seem to have already withdrawn from your lower ranked schools and elimated others and I feel that given how much you proclaim your love for certain schools, you will go to them regardless of how much they end up costing you.

 

[bobsmith]

people flame you on these issues because you don't seem to be following your own advise at all.

you say you don't care about rankings, but you are prestige driven? There's a lot of great schools whose SOLE prestige comes from their highly ranked medical school and hospital and I can't think of a better example than mt.sinai.

you say you will follow the money, but you seem to have already withdrawn from your lower ranked schools and elimated others and I feel that given how much you proclaim your love for certain schools, you will go to them regardless of how much they end up costing you.

I've never heard dw say she would follow the money.

 

[Mandiblespeaks]

Prestige is never a bad thing. Let's be honest It's like money, You hate it when you don't have any.

We can slice and dice it and dissect it into infinituum but let's face it:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/prestige


-Going to medical has its prestige no matter where you go.

-Going to certain medical schools are prestigious to those persons "in the know"

-Certain schools are MORE prestigious to the lay person because they are associated with certain undergraduate institutions.

We can reaarrange these and place importance on one of the other ..etc But I think it is a bit futile. Prestige is Prestige. Get Money!

 

[BlueElmo]

Everyone is picking on Baylor. I bet it won't receive applications for the upcoming cycle.

Yup, Baylor must be soooo worried.

 

[jturkel]

Deep down I think many of us understand what you mean. I worked really hard as an undergrad and while I'm humbled by the acceptances that I've received, it is a little disappointing that my friends and family in California respond "Are those good schools?" when I tell them that I may go to Boston University or Dartmouth [well duh they're good!]. Oh btw, the AVERAGE Californian has not heard of Dartmouth, JHU, UCSF or UPenn, so I'm talking about common prestige, not prestige in the medical world.

Edit: Actually, the first time that I knew about JHU was from House three years ago : )

i find it hard to believe that people have never heard of UPenn and Dartmouth.....they're IVY League schools. I know most everyone I know here in AZ knows of them.....i would think those that are more educated/knowledgeable/informed even, should know most/all of the IVYs.

I do get that reaction when i mention (not that i've gotten in tho) Washington University in St Louis though....and i'm like......uh.....its a top 5 lol.

 

[ButImLETired]

Why? So schools that have a lower score than 14 other schools can claim to be top 10? When two athletes tie for second in the olympics they give a gold and two silvers, no bronze. No one shouts out then that they should give out four medals

I'm not shouting, just musing. It just always seems strange to me to read those rankings and realize how many ties there are (incidentally, I'd propose the same thing for the olympics...if you're third best, you're third best- it's not your fault two people were second best...). You can get toward the bottom of the list and realize the schools still have a high score even though they're ranked low, just because of all the ties. Anyway, as I said, just musing.

For what it's worth, I too have heard that rankings matter to some extent in the residency app process. However, there are some caveats. The places that care the most about what school you went to, also have the most "academic" residencies- ones that require research, or look for a research background, and are really geared toward future academicians. If you're not interested in those kinds of residencies, where you go to med school truly is mostly irrelevant. It's all about what you're looking for. Just remember that the rankings aren't universal- there is no particular reason why Harvard is better than say, Kentucky, other than the fact that they're a research powerhouse. There is no inherent magic to the way they do things.

 

[jturkel]

Yup, Baylor must be soooo worried.

Everyone is picking on Baylor. I bet it won't receive applications for the upcoming cycle.

i think everyone that is reading this should drop their acceptance from baylor and go elsewhere..... 😀 ..... lol

 

[Infinitydrop]

I've never heard dw say she would follow the money.

good point, only to other people.

 

[bamtuba]

i find it hard to believe that people have never heard of UPenn and Dartmouth.....they're IVY League schools. I know most everyone I know here in AZ knows of them.....i would think those that are more educated/knowledgeable/informed even, should know most/all of the IVYs.

I know a lot of educated people who could not list every Ivy out there. They might recognize the names if prompted, but couldn't spit out the list.

Besides, you have to include the "new ivies" depending on which school you go to now 🙄.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/39401

 

[jturkel]

I know a lot of educated people who could not list every Ivy out there. They might recognize the names if prompted, but couldn't spit out the list.

Besides, you have to include the "new ivies" depending on which school you go to now 🙄.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/39401

lol.....ok....i suppose some are not as recognizable as Harvard and Yale (many i know think UPenn is a state school....)

and regarding "new ivies" IVY is IVY..... i'm gonna get technical with it. it's like saying UCLA and the University of Arizona in the Pac-10... the IVY League is the actual name of the conference/group those schools are in..... so unless more schools are accepted into that conference aka the "IVY League".....then there not any more new ivies regardless of rankings above IVY League schools...however that obviously does not mean there are schools out there that are not better/more reputable than IVY League schools. i'm just kind of against the phrase of "new ivies" lol. if a school is good, then it straight up deserves to be recognized for what it is and who it is and not necessarily compared to the IVYs

 

[drizzt3117]

Yup, Baylor must be soooo worried.

You laugh about this, but Baylor does have serious issues they need to deal with. It's interesting that it's been reflected so quickly in the rankings. They've been dropping ever since Debakey left us 🙁

 

[BlueElmo]

You laugh about this, but Baylor does have serious issues they need to deal with. It's interesting that it's been reflected so quickly in the rankings. They've been dropping ever since Debakey left us 🙁

What issues?

 

[bamtuba]

lol.....ok....i suppose some are not as recognizable as Harvard and Yale (many i know think UPenn is a state school....)

and regarding "new ivies" IVY is IVY..... i'm gonna get technical with it. it's like saying UCLA and the University of Arizona in the Pac-10... the IVY League is the actual name of the conference/group those schools are in..... so unless more schools are accepted into that conference aka the "IVY League".....then there not any more new ivies regardless of rankings above IVY League schools...however that obviously does not mean there are schools out there that are not better/more reputable than IVY League schools. i'm just kind of against the phrase of "new ivies" lol. if a school is good, then it straight up deserves to be recognized for what it is and who it is and not necessarily compared to the IVYs

Yeah, I think the whole concept of "new ivies" is pretty dumb, but it sells magazines and makes those associated with 25 "up and comers" feel really warm and fuzzy about their tuition $$$.

 

[bamtuba]

You laugh about this, but Baylor does have serious issues they need to deal with. It's interesting that it's been reflected so quickly in the rankings. They've been dropping ever since Debakey left us 🙁

Yeah, but he sure did have a long and productive life!

Talk about someone to emulate professionally. 👍

 

[drizzt3117]

Yes, I think you make good points, seems to be consistent with what I've heard.

Also on an unrelated note, do you think ccf (and maybe mayo) should be included? Seems like their IM program is very undesirable, although they have some very good fellowships, like cardiology. Just wondering your opinion.

CCF is one of those programs that's hard to read just because they have so many residents and fellows, I was telling CCLCMer that I read that they have one of the largest graduate medical education programs in the country. I don't know that much about their IM program but I know that they're very good in areas like Cardiology, Pathology, Oncology (esp radiation), Cardiothroracic Surgery, Urology, Surgical Oncology, etc, and appear to be at least competitive (top 10-15) in most of the other programs.

 

[drizzt3117]

What issues?

financial ones, that's what everyone is talking about in this thread.

 

[drizzt3117]

Yeah, but he sure did have a long and productive life!

Talk about someone to emulate professionally. 👍

pretty ironic that he diagnosed his own dissecting aortic aneurysm, that he came up with the procedure to fix previously. If he lived 50-100 years earlier it'd be called the "Debakey Sign" haha. Troussau did that too, apparently. I think it's bad luck to come up with your own sign that indicates a malignancy.

 

[RunningDiva]

and regarding "new ivies" IVY is IVY..... i'm gonna get technical with it. it's like saying UCLA and the University of Arizona in the Pac-10... the IVY League is the actual name of the conference/group those schools are in..... so unless more schools are accepted into that conference aka the "IVY League".....then there not any more new ivies regardless of rankings above IVY League schools...however that obviously does not mean there are schools out there that are not better/more reputable than IVY League schools. i'm just kind of against the phrase of "new ivies" lol. if a school is good, then it straight up deserves to be recognized for what it is and who it is and not necessarily compared to the IVYs

i don't think a lot of people realize thats its a conference/group. i surely didn't. Pac-10, SEC, and ACC divisions are recognizable through their sports. i can name a handful of the Pac-10 only cuz i watch college football. i only know of ivies from the academic point of view. so when people are saying "new ivies" it is probably referring to the perceived academic rigor of the school in comparison, even if it technically is wrong.

 

[Untraditional]

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsan......../research-rankings

Research rankings. 🙄

For that other kind of gunner the primary care rankings are here:

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankings...ols/top-medical-schools/primary-care-rankings

Harvard is ranked 17, below Pitt, Iowa, Minn, Penn UCSF and Michigan.