US NEWS Rankings are officially out...

[dw2158]

people flame you on these issues because you don't seem to be following your own advise at all.

you say you don't care about rankings, but you are prestige driven? There's a lot of great schools whose SOLE prestige comes from their highly ranked medical school and hospital and I can't think of a better example than mt.sinai.

you say you will follow the money, but you seem to have already withdrawn from your lower ranked schools and elimated others and I feel that given how much you proclaim your love for certain schools, you will go to them regardless of how much they end up costing you.

aha! thanks for proving my point regarding rankings and prestige. i said earlier that people on SDN conflate USNews rankings and prestige-- and you just did exactly that. i do care about prestige, because i care about the opinions of the people around me about what a "good school" is. (let's not argue about whether that is logical or not, okay? ) i don't care about rankings, because i don't care about USNews' opinion of what a "good school" is. yes, *generally* speaking the rankings and prestige are similar, but in my mind sounding more impressive is more important than going to the highest-ranked school. yes, i realize how silly this sounds as i'm typing it, but it's the truth

as far as your other point, you are just wrong. never once have i said i was going to "follow the money." nor have i withdrawn from lower-ranked schools. the only ones i was accepted to and withdrew from were einstein and cornell. and you're right, i will likely end up at a private school in manhattan that is more expensive than UMass. but i've been very consistent in admitting this-- feel free to research some old threads on debt and you'll learn why i left SDN for a few months. i don't think debt is evil.

so, to sum up... you are wrong.

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[Mandiblespeaks]

aha! thanks for proving my point regarding rankings and prestige. i said earlier that people on SDN conflate USNews rankings and prestige-- and you just did exactly that. i do care about prestige, because i care about the opinions of the people around me about what a "good school" is. (let's not argue about whether that is logical or not, okay? ) i don't care about rankings, because i don't care about USNews' opinion of what a "good school" is. yes, *generally* speaking the rankings and prestige are similar, but in my mind sounding more impressive is more important than going to the highest-ranked school. yes, i realize how silly this sounds as i'm typing it, but it's the truth

as far as your other point, you are just wrong. never once have i said i was going to "follow the money." nor have i withdrawn from lower-ranked schools. the only ones i was accepted to and withdrew from were einstein and cornell. and you're right, i will likely end up at a private school in manhattan that is more expensive than UMass. but i've been very consistent in admitting this-- feel free to research some old threads on debt and you'll learn why i left SDN for a few months. i don't think debt is evil.

so, to sum up... you are wrong.

And here I was thinking I was the only one. I couldnt agree with you more. Seriously, it's a losing battle to argue this with anyone on SDN. No need to pretend for other peoples egos. Prestige is a good thing. And not everyone makes desicions based on $.

 

[bamtuba]

"The medical school administration elected not to participate in the USNWR rankings a few years ago and we were only just removed from the list this year. We felt that the rankings system was exceptionally flawed, placing heavy emphasis on federal research funding that almost entirely depends on the size of a university rather than on its educational merits. For example, USNWR calculates funding by adding up undergraduate and medical school research dollars and thus penalizes schools like MMS. In addition, the general feeling among the medical school admin is that the rankings are used as tools to sell magazines rather than as a tool to help students make strong decisions about which school to attend. They do realize this same criticism would apply to the hospital rankings. The uppers levels of Mayo Clinic's leadership agreed with this and supports the medical school in this decision. It certainly was not a decision made to preempt some foreseen drop in rankings."

Interesting.

Regarding things like research funding, I know that the University of Rochester (NY) Physics Department brings in MANY millions to the university. The fact that this type of money can get lumped in with that used for medical research to raise a medical school's rankings really does seem suspect, IMO.

Good for you Mayo

 

[Mandiblespeaks]

"The medical school administration elected not to participate in the USNWR rankings a few years ago and we were only just removed from the list this year. We felt that the rankings system was exceptionally flawed, placing heavy emphasis on federal research funding that almost entirely depends on the size of a university rather than on its educational merits. For example, USNWR calculates funding by adding up undergraduate and medical school research dollars and thus penalizes schools like MMS. In addition, the general feeling among the medical school admin is that the rankings are used as tools to sell magazines rather than as a tool to help students make strong decisions about which school to attend. They do realize this same criticism would apply to the hospital rankings. The uppers levels of Mayo Clinic's leadership agreed with this and supports the medical school in this decision. It certainly was not a decision made to preempt some foreseen drop in rankings."

Interesting.

Regarding things like research funding, I know that the University of Rochester (NY) Physics Department brings in MANY millions to the university. The fact that this type of money can get lumped in with that used for medical research to raise a school's rankings really does seem suspect, IMO.

Good for you Mayo

That is interesting for sure. But in this same thinking, how much more accalade MSSM gets for being new and destroying the rankings.

 

[jbz24]

"The medical school administration elected not to participate in the USNWR rankings a few years ago and we were only just removed from the list this year. We felt that the rankings system was exceptionally flawed, placing heavy emphasis on federal research funding that almost entirely depends on the size of a university rather than on its educational merits. For example, USNWR calculates funding by adding up undergraduate and medical school research dollars and thus penalizes schools like MMS. In addition, the general feeling among the medical school admin is that the rankings are used as tools to sell magazines rather than as a tool to help students make strong decisions about which school to attend. They do realize this same criticism would apply to the hospital rankings. The uppers levels of Mayo Clinic's leadership agreed with this and supports the medical school in this decision. It certainly was not a decision made to preempt some foreseen drop in rankings."

Interesting.

Regarding things like research funding, I know that the University of Rochester (NY) Physics Department brings in MANY millions to the university. The fact that this type of money can get lumped in with that used for medical research to raise a medical school's rankings really does seem suspect, IMO.

Good for you Mayo

So then tell Mayo to drop out of the hospital rankings too. I think that's just a cop out because they couldn't compete in rankings compared to Harvard, Hopkins, etc. I'm not saying the methodology is perfect, or even good, but it is what it is and people do use them.

Sinai has the same exact problems that Mayo (no undergrad attached), so it's not a Mayo-specific problem.

 

[jbz24]

CCF is one of those programs that's hard to read just because they have so many residents and fellows, I was telling CCLCMer that I read that they have one of the largest graduate medical education programs in the country. I don't know that much about their IM program but I know that they're very good in areas like Cardiology, Pathology, Oncology (esp radiation), Cardiothroracic Surgery, Urology, Surgical Oncology, etc, and appear to be at least competitive (top 10-15) in most of the other programs.

Seems to be better for the fellowships and surgical specialties then. Thanks.

 

[jturkel]

so when people are saying "new ivies" it is probably referring to the perceived academic rigor of the school in comparison, even if it technically is wrong.

yah...i know. i just don't agree with it and think it's dumb. if you want to compare it to an IVY...that's one thing...but to say it is new is just incorrect and misleading. just say it is a good school and competes for the same students as that of the IVY League

 

[RunningDiva]

yah...i know. i just don't agree with it and think it's dumb. if you want to compare it to an IVY...that's one thing...but to say it is new is just incorrect and misleading. just say it is a good school and competes for the same students as that of the IVY League

i understand ya. every one wants into the cool club i guess. its a great marketing scheme from the other universities touting themselves as "new ivies."

its funny, when i tell my parents about certain schools i liked, interviewed at, etc, their first question is, "what is its ranking?" they don't know anything about medical schools at all besides that they get ranked every year. the rankings are something easy for the naive public to grab onto and understand. its also marketing power for a school to say, "top 10 medical school." to me, its the analog of consumer reports.

 

[Cytotoxic]

"The medical school administration elected not to participate in the USNWR rankings a few years ago and we were only just removed from the list this year. We felt that the rankings system was exceptionally flawed, placing heavy emphasis on federal research funding that almost entirely depends on the size of a university rather than on its educational merits. For example, USNWR calculates funding by adding up undergraduate and medical school research dollars and thus penalizes schools like MMS. In addition, the general feeling among the medical school admin is that the rankings are used as tools to sell magazines rather than as a tool to help students make strong decisions about which school to attend. They do realize this same criticism would apply to the hospital rankings. The uppers levels of Mayo Clinic's leadership agreed with this and supports the medical school in this decision. It certainly was not a decision made to preempt some foreseen drop in rankings."

Interesting.

Regarding things like research funding, I know that the University of Rochester (NY) Physics Department brings in MANY millions to the university. The fact that this type of money can get lumped in with that used for medical research to raise a medical school's rankings really does seem suspect, IMO.

Good for you Mayo

US News only takes into account NIH (aka health-related) funding to medical schools and their affiliated hospitals. Faculty who do not hold appointments in med. school departments and are elsewhere in a university (e.g. engineering or A&S appointments) should not be included. Here's a link to the ranking methodology: (http://www.usnews.com/articles/educ.../the-medical-school-rankings-methodology.html)

 

[jturkel]

i understand ya. every one wants into the cool club i guess. its a great marketing scheme from the other universities touting themselves as "new ivies."

its funny, when i tell my parents about certain schools i liked, interviewed at, etc, their first question is, "what is its ranking?" they don't know anything about medical schools at all besides that they get ranked every year. the rankings are something easy for the naive public to grab onto and understand. its also marketing power for a school to say, "top 10 medical school." to me, its the analog of consumer reports.

agreed 100%....marketing....couldn't be in more agreement with your post lol. my parents luckily have a unique background....my dad was/is a nerd and is now a doctor...my mom was not and went to a party school but is a nurse.....bright nonetheless......but combined....they want me to go where i will have a good time and be happy....and not so concerned about the ranking

 

[Mandiblespeaks]

agreed 100%....marketing....couldn't be in more agreement with your post lol. my parents luckily have a unique background....my dad was/is a nerd and is now a doctor...my mom was not and went to a party school but is a nurse.....bright nonetheless......but combined....they want me to go where i will have a good time and be happy....and not so concerned about the ranking

Good thing you are getting a little of both! lol BU!!

 

[alibai3ah]

aha! thanks for proving my point regarding rankings and prestige. i said earlier that people on SDN conflate USNews rankings and prestige-- and you just did exactly that. i do care about prestige, because i care about the opinions of the people around me about what a "good school" is. (let's not argue about whether that is logical or not, okay? ) i don't care about rankings, because i don't care about USNews' opinion of what a "good school" is. yes, *generally* speaking the rankings and prestige are similar, but in my mind sounding more impressive is more important than going to the highest-ranked school. yes, i realize how silly this sounds as i'm typing it, but it's the truth

as far as your other point, you are just wrong. never once have i said i was going to "follow the money." nor have i withdrawn from lower-ranked schools. the only ones i was accepted to and withdrew from were einstein and cornell. and you're right, i will likely end up at a private school in manhattan that is more expensive than UMass. but i've been very consistent in admitting this-- feel free to research some old threads on debt and you'll learn why i left SDN for a few months. i don't think debt is evil.

so, to sum up... you are wrong.

+1, Couldn't agree more. People don't understand on SDN that not all highly ranked schools equate to prestige....

Somebody before me mentioned that prestige for medical schools will be different than prestige for undergrads. But what is the point of a "prestigious" medical school, when people don't know it is prestigious. It defeats the whole purpose right?

Again I personally am not too big on this factor. It is just that people here assume that lots of schools are prestigious (I won't name them), when they really aren't.... They are just highly ranked.

 

[jbz24]

+1, Couldn't agree more. People don't understand on SDN that not all highly ranked schools equate to prestige....

Somebody before me mentioned that prestige for medical schools will be different than prestige for undergrads. But what is the point of a "prestigious" medical school, when people don't know it is prestigious. It defeats the whole purpose right?

Again I personally am not too big on this factor. It is just that people here assume that lots of schools are prestigious (I won't name them), when they really aren't.... They are just highly ranked.

I think also prestigious in the medical community vs. the general population has been brought up. So the point of going to a prestigious medical school is that it helps (to some extent) in getting a prestigious residency/fellowship/faculty position.

 

[ButImLETired]

So then tell Mayo to drop out of the hospital rankings too. I think that's just a cop out because they couldn't compete in rankings compared to Harvard, Hopkins, etc. I'm not saying the methodology is perfect, or even good, but it is what it is and people do use them.

Sinai has the same exact problems that Mayo (no undergrad attached), so it's not a Mayo-specific problem.

I agree. I generally agree with what Bamtuba says (musician to musician ) but in this case, I think it's a cop-out. The clinic is in the hospital rankings, and unapologetically so, because it's in the top 5 or whatever. You can't have it both ways. The rankings either matter or they don't. Besides, going "neener, neener" about how you are above everyone else because your school doesn't believe in rankings is essentially the same as going "neener, neener" cause your school is ranked highly.
If you don't believe in it, fine. But don't brag about a school that says it doesn't believe in rankings while participating in all except the one in which they wouldn't place highly, and realize that to judge others for being judgemental is probably a little hypocritical.

 

[bamtuba]

I agree. I generally agree with what Bamtuba says (musician to musician ) but in this case, I think it's a cop-out. The clinic is in the hospital rankings, and unapologetically so, because it's in the top 5 or whatever. You can't have it both ways. The rankings either matter or they don't. Besides, going "neener, neener" about how you are above everyone else because your school doesn't believe in rankings is essentially the same as going "neener, neener" cause your school is ranked highly.
If you don't believe in it, fine. But don't brag about a school that says it doesn't believe in rankings while participating in all except the one in which they wouldn't place highly, and realize that to judge others for being judgemental is probably a little hypocritical.

I think I failed to mention this before, but the section in quotes is from a current student and I BELIEVE is a response from administration (but that has not been confirmed).

I would posit that the medical school and clinic itself are two seperate entities that, in my opinion, have NO reason to be consistent in what they do with their respective rankings.

More of the post from said student is on the Mayo specific thread (where I believe it deserves to remain), but I wanted to post this much here since there was some question brought up by others about why Mayo was not a part of the rankings this year.

Whether people agree with THE REASONING they are giving (again, not me ) is not my concern. I don't care what their reasons are, but I would point out that though many schools protest rankings and methodologies (check out some school specific threads for some interesting reactions different places have had) Mayo is the first to "put its money where its mouth is" by taking the action they have.

That is the part that gets a big from me.

Takes some major cajones to risk being labeled as "unranked" by taking such action.

 

[bamtuba]

I think that's just a cop out because they couldn't compete in rankings compared to Harvard, Hopkins, etc.

No one ever claimed this is any school-specific problem, but I think Mayo does just fine with research funding as it stands, especially considering the large amount they bring in for non-NIH.

Apparently Hopkins can't even compete this year

yeah, rankings are crap, IMO.

 

[bamtuba]

US News only takes into account NIH (aka health-related) funding to medical schools and their affiliated hospitals. Faculty who do not hold appointments in med. school departments and are elsewhere in a university (e.g. engineering or A&S appointments) should not be included. Here's a link to the ranking methodology: (http://www.usnews.com/articles/educ.../the-medical-school-rankings-methodology.html)

The only issue here is that it is completely up to the school what they report and a pretty simple task to expand who "is and is not" doing research that may be "medically related."

Not that a school would have any reason to stretch the truth here or anything...

 

[Cytotoxic]

The only issue here is that it is completely up to the school what they report and a pretty simple task to expand who "is and is not" doing research that may be "medically related."

Not that a school would have any reason to stretch the truth here or anything...

NIH funding = medically relevant. And if a school misreports its funding and that of its affiliated hospitals, it's fairly easy to cross-check: http://projectreporter.nih.gov/reporter.cfm

 

[bamtuba]

Just to be clear, while I don't believe in the US news rankings, I have nothing against those who do. We all have the right to our priorities and if that means someone needs to go to "#1 med school," then great. That is just as valid as any other reason if it is important to you.

My personal experience, after visiting Mayo and #3, was that the rankings told NOTHING about the comparitive quality of the schools or the education I believe either offers. In fact I believe Mayo provides more opportunity per student than those with "larger NIH budgets." But that is my personal insight and is important to me.

I don't think what Mayo has done is right or wrong and am in fact ambivilant about their rankings whether for the clinic or school, but their willingness to do "what they believe is right" no matter their reasoning is something I appreciate.

Some schools send letters to the editor in protest of their placement. Others send out statements to appease their donors because they slipped one spot. And others say "thanks, but no thanks" to the magazine and only respond with their reasoning when asked while not making pre-emptive excuses. I like that.

To each their own.

 

[bamtuba]

NIH funding = medically relevant. And if a school misreports its funding and that of its affiliated hospitals, it's fairly easy to cross-check: http://projectreporter.nih.gov/reporter.cfm

But they don't.

 

[Cytotoxic]

But they don't.

How do you know that? And even if they don't (admittedly likely), you're welcome to check yourself.

 

[bamtuba]

How do you know that? And even if they don't (admittedly likely), you're welcome to check yourself.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_releases/2010/04_15_10.html

Interesting read.

"School of Medicine leadership has also taken note once again that there appear to be continuing problems with USN&WR's ranking methodology and its numbers, particularly in its reporting of National Institutes of Health research funding to medical schools. The USN&WR data do not align with NIH and other public database figures."

And this coming from one of the "NIH Powerhouses..."

 

[searun]

Mayo is a fine school. Personally, I would not want to attend a school with 40 students in my class on an iceberg, but it is a fine school in a world class hospital. Different strokes for different folks. It works for some students, others, like me, would say, no thanks. But it is beyond debate, that Mayo is a top med school.

 

[jbz24]

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_releases/2010/04_15_10.html

Interesting read.

"School of Medicine leadership has also taken note once again that there appear to be continuing problems with USN&WR’s ranking methodology and its numbers, particularly in its reporting of National Institutes of Health research funding to medical schools. The USN&WR data do not align with NIH and other public database figures."

And this coming from one of the "NIH Powerhouses..."

I don't quite understand how they do not align up, especially since they are self-reported.

As for Mayo, I know you don't find it hypocritical, but I do. Even if the medical school and clinic are run by two separate entities, they still fall under the same umbrella administration. It does not seem consistent to me that they tout being a #2 hospital constantly, but will disregard the medical school rankings because the methodology "doesn't suit them." It's ironic because many people only know of Mayo due to the fact that their hospital is ranked so highly. If rankings did not exist, who knows where Mayo would be today.

My personal experience, after visiting Mayo and #3, was that the rankings told NOTHING about the comparitive quality of the schools or the education I believe either offers. In fact I believe Mayo provides more opportunity per student than those with "larger NIH budgets." But that is my personal insight and is important to me.

The rankings are not supposed to tell you the quality of the schools or their education. The rankings are simply a way to try and quantify "prestige" of research institutions by the amount of NIH funding they receive, the types of students that go to them, and what other places and residency programs think of them. There are plenty of lower ranked schools that provide a better rounded education than higher ranked schools. Also, I never know what to make when someone says a school provides more opportunities for students. Is that referring to research opportunities? I'm sure Mayo provides great clinical research opportunities, but they are still lacking in basic science opportunities.

 

[jbz24]

Johns Hopkins earned $790,000,000 while UPenn earned $610,000,000 if you take both schools NIH dollars. HMS on the other hand only earned $260,000,000. If HMS is number 1, they're counting more than HMS NIH.

I can't prove but can almost guarantee that they are counting HMS + MGH + BWH + BID.

 

[Cytotoxic]

You need to include their affiliates. MGH alone brings in 300M+

 

[Cytotoxic]

Can Tufts or BU also claim the institutions?

No. MGH, BWH, BIDMC, DFCI, etc. are HMS's teaching hospitals. Meaning HMS students have full access to those facilities, their faculty, research, etc.

 

[Cytotoxic]

Must be nice.

I bet.

 

[jbz24]

Must be nice.

That's what you get when you choose Hopkins over Harvard

 

[jbz24]

I'd still take one legendary hospital over a half a dozen great hospitals

I agree, I would take MGH over JHU + half a dozen other great hospitals

 

[dw2158]

And here I was thinking I was the only one. I couldnt agree with you more. Seriously, it's a losing battle to argue this with anyone on SDN. No need to pretend for other peoples egos. Prestige is a good thing. And not everyone makes desicions based on $.

i knew i liked you

 

[drizzt3117]

No. MGH, BWH, BIDMC, DFCI, etc. are HMS's teaching hospitals. Meaning HMS students have full access to those facilities, their faculty, research, etc.

Don't forget Boston childrens.

 

[Instatewaiter]

You need to include their affiliates. MGH alone brings in 300M+

On the interview trail the MGH dept of medicine claimed to pull in 600 million in their dept which they claimed was more than the rest of harvard... Thats a lot of money

I agree, I would take MGH over JHU + half a dozen other great hospitals

I don't know why anyone would take MGH over JHH. We all know JHH the best in the country, plus the Haaarrrrvahd people are a bit pretentious while we all know hopkins isn't pretentious at all.

 

[drizzt3117]

Yes, sadly SDN is very anti-prestige. Nothing wrong with this thinking.

It's pretty obvious why, the vast majority of sdn ppl who make it into med school do/will go to med schools that aren't in the top 25, so it makes them feel better to say that the school you go to doesn't matte

 

[astral]

Ok, I'm not getting on any soapbox but...

this whole discussion seems kind of ridiculous to me. Even if I did get in somewhere prestigious (which I admit, I did not) it would be more important for me to go somewhere that I "fit".

I think you should go wherever you'd be happy, and I think other factors shouldn't hold much weight. Honestly.

If it's Harvard, go to Harvard. UMass go to Umass.

Life is too short.

 

[MilkmanAl]

I don't think too many people contend that your med school doesn't matter. Rather, it seems the popular opinion is that your school doesn't matter (for career purposes) anywhere near as much as pre-meds want it to or hope it does. The data certainly back that sentiment up.

 

[chman]

I don't think too many people contend that your med school doesn't matter. Rather, it seems the popular opinion is that your school doesn't matter (for career purposes) anywhere near as much as pre-meds want it to or hope it does. The data certainly back that sentiment up.

According to the new US News rankings, data is highly overrated, and has dropped three spots this year to be tied with statistics.

 

[drizzt3117]

I don't think too many people contend that your med school doesn't matter. Rather, it seems the popular opinion is that your school doesn't matter (for career purposes) anywhere near as much as pre-meds want it to or hope it does. The data certainly back that sentiment up.

I agree to a certain extent that it doesn't affect your ability to go into a given specialty if you work hard. That said, I think it's empirically clear (although no one has ever done a study on this) that at the top programs in almost every specialty, the residents are mainly from top programs. Obviously there's exceptions to this, and you'll see people from mid-tier state schools and the like, but it's not that common. Let's browse three top 5 programs in competitive specialties.

2/3 of the people are from top 25s.

https://secure.chwhealth.org/ichosestjoes/About_Us/For_Physicians/Current_Residents/095458

again, roughly 2/3 from top programs:

http://www.bascompalmer.org/site/info/pdf/Bascom_Residents200910.pdf

or even... 20/24

http://www.radiology.ucsf.edu/residents/who

A quick back of the envelope calculation shows that out of about ~66 residents, 48 (73%) were from top 25 programs. Students from the top 25 programs, as you recall, make up about 15% of all allo medical students. Sure, we can argue it's self-selection and people from lower tier schools don't want to go to top tier programs, or cite statistics that people from whatever program get their 1st choice (and it just happens to be a lower tier residency near their medical school, no self-selection at all there) but whatever.

 

[JasonE]

azadre i wouldnt be so fast to point fingers at other schools.

one of the professors over here told us hopkins inflates their research money through an outside affiliation (i believe its the carnegie institute) in similar ways other schools do.
if you think about it, the hopkins campus is TINY. other schools have research facilities bigger than JHH+Homewood combined (land area)

 

[Broseph]

The rankings are a data point, along with many other to consider. For example, if you want to practice in Washington, DC you may very logically decide to go to University of Maryland or GTown or GW even though they are more lowly rated that then say, MSSN. But if MSSN is gonna give you alot of money or if you really want to spend time in NYC you just have to take all that into account. It would be crazy to pick a school based on rank alone, especially if the difference in rank is only a few points. Obviously, the difference between 12 and 20 is not that significant. For me, I like to focus on the sub scores, like what peers say or residency directors. Of course, you gotta buy the premium edtion for that.....

 

[DoctorDeMan]

Just to be clear, while I don't believe in the US news rankings, I have nothing against those who do. We all have the right to our priorities and if that means someone needs to go to "#1 med school," then great. That is just as valid as any other reason if it is important to you.

My personal experience, after visiting Mayo and #3, was that the rankings told NOTHING about the comparitive quality of the schools or the education I believe either offers. In fact I believe Mayo provides more opportunity per student than those with "larger NIH budgets." But that is my personal insight and is important to me.

I don't think what Mayo has done is right or wrong and am in fact ambivilant about their rankings whether for the clinic or school, but their willingness to do "what they believe is right" no matter their reasoning is something I appreciate.

Some schools send letters to the editor in protest of their placement. Others send out statements to appease their donors because they slipped one spot. And others say "thanks, but no thanks" to the magazine and only respond with their reasoning when asked while not making pre-emptive excuses. I like that.

To each their own.

To offer another perspective. I am a current Mayo student and while I understand the administration's reasoning and I think it's a bold move, I do not see any potential benefit from not participating in the rankings.

 

[SwineSue]

Deep down I think many of us understand what you mean. I worked really hard as an undergrad and while I'm humbled by the acceptances that I've received, it is a little disappointing that my friends and family in California respond

I don't get why people always say this. Getting rejected is humbling. Getting acceptances is an ego boost. From dictionary.com humble: to lower in condition, importance, or dignity; abase. To pretend otherwise is just blatant false modesty so you can (justifiably) feel good about yourself for working hard and getting into medical school, but still be all more-modest-than-thou.
I am proud of my acceptances. Getting rejected from GWU was humbling.

 

[Untraditional]

ITT: Gunner slapfight.

 

[SwineSue]

I'd still take one legendary hospital over a half a dozen great hospitals

yes, you're a better med student because someone did something important in that building 80 years ago

 

[bamtuba]

To offer another perspective. I am a current Mayo student and while I understand the administration's reasoning and I think it's a bold move, I do not see any potential benefit from not participating in the rankings.

I too don't see a tangible benefit to the school from the decision, and can see where it would be a hindrance in the future.

 

[bamtuba]

The rankings are not supposed to tell you the quality of the schools or their education.

I agree with this completely.

And I also agree with the various viewpoints on Mayo as an example.

I'm really not worried about any institutions ranking, as mentioned before.

I too think it a bit hypocritical that they keep the hospital rankings, but would point out that, in my opinion, those rankings actually mean something to patients (ie. does hospital X have the latest technologies at its disposal to help save your life, etc.).

This could be argued for the school rankings as well to a point, but we're not talking life and death here in quite the same light.

But again, I concede the point that if Mayo were ranked more highly they PROBABLY would not have made the same decision.

 

[Infinitydrop]

agreed,i think mayo making this move makes them probably a top top medical school with a place amoung the top 10 WITHOUT having the rankings to back them up. Rather now people have to extrapolate from mayo's hospital ranking and therefore people will more likely think it a lot higher ranked than it actually is. its basically a move only mayo could pull off.

I think rankings only help the majority of the schools with prestige. any school ranked in the top 25 thats not an ivy, or well known gains the majority of its apparent prestige from the rankings alone (both hosiptal and med school rankings), these are schools like mt.sinai, u pitts, case western, iowa, and so forth. If us news rankings didn't exsist, they would see a lot less applications i bet because no one would have heard of them.

 

[dw2158]

I don't get why people always say this. Getting rejected is humbling. Getting acceptances is an ego boost. From dictionary.com humble: to lower in condition, importance, or dignity; abase. To pretend otherwise is just blatant false modesty so you can (justifiably) feel good about yourself for working hard and getting into medical school, but still be all more-modest-than-thou.
I am proud of my acceptances. Getting rejected from GWU was humbling.

i don't know, when i think about how fortunate i am to have gotten several great acceptances, i do feel humbled-- because it's like there is some larger force in the universe that has allowed me to get to this point. i am also proud of all that i've accomplished, but when i step back to look at and appreciate the larger picture, i definitely feel humbled.

 

[Naijaba]

I don't get why people always say this. Getting rejected is humbling. Getting acceptances is an ego boost. From dictionary.com humble: to lower in condition, importance, or dignity; abase. To pretend otherwise is just blatant false modesty so you can (justifiably) feel good about yourself for working hard and getting into medical school, but still be all more-modest-than-thou.
I am proud of my acceptances. Getting rejected from GWU was humbling.

Oh I was using the word "humbled" to avoid sounding like I was overly irked by the fact that non-med people didn't know anything about Dartmouth and Boston. In other words, I'm not so egocentric to think that acceptances at Dartmouth and Boston are easy to come by.

 

[Naijaba]

I too don't see a tangible benefit to the school from the decision, and can see where it would be a hindrance in the future.

I hate to say it, but I think this will be a severe hindrance in the future. I want a career in research medicine, and apart from my research profs. (who were PhDs btw), virtually no one I knew ever heard of Mayo, or any of the other great non-big-name schools for that matter. How did I come up with my list? I looked at USNews Rankings, filtered for the top 50 or so, when to each schools' website and read about their research areas. Then I selected the 13 that had strong connections with computer science (my area of interest), and went from there.

I think the benefit of being anywhere on USNews is publicity; for people to know that your school even exists. It sounds naive, but, as someone else said, if you're from the East Coast you may never have heard of UCSF, and it is one of the top 5 schools.