Using GI Bill for Post-bacc prereqs?

[NonTradGladTrad]

Does anyone have any experience with using the GI Bill to cover any post-bacc prereqs you might be missing, but not to use it to complete a full program? I know it needs to be "degree-seeking," so how can I go about justifying it as "degree-seeking" because it's getting prerequisites out of the way that I need to do to actually seek the degree I'm seeking?


Anyone with any experience or knowledge here would be very helpful. I did ask the school itself, and they just said "No" and quoted the CFR I've already read to me. And it almost feels disingenuous to say, "Okay, I'll apply to seek a new undergraduate degree in interdisciplinary studies," take the classes that I want to take, and then drop from the school.

So...looking for any advice here on this front. I have the ability to pay for just the couple courses I want to take, but I would much prefer to use a couple months of my GI bill to do this if possible since I plan to attempt using VR&E to pay for the medical school.

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[Just Call Me Doc]

Does anyone have any experience with using the GI Bill to cover any post-bacc prereqs you might be missing, but not to use it to complete a full program? I know it needs to be "degree-seeking," so how can I go about justifying it as "degree-seeking" because it's getting prerequisites out of the way that I need to do to actually seek the degree I'm seeking?


Anyone with any experience or knowledge here would be very helpful. I did ask the school itself, and they just said "No" and quoted the CFR I've already read to me. And it almost feels disingenuous to say, "Okay, I'll apply to seek a new undergraduate degree in interdisciplinary studies," take the classes that I want to take, and then drop from the school.

So...looking for any advice here on this front. I have the ability to pay for just the couple courses I want to take, but I would much prefer to use a couple months of my GI bill to do this if possible since I plan to attempt using VR&E to pay for the medical school.

I have used GI bill to cover post-bacc pre-reqs without seeking a degree. I think you just have to use it at a school that has a non-degree program. From what I can see on the VA website, though, it looks like it would be better to use your VR&E first before your GI Bill if you can.

 

[NonTradGladTrad]

I have used GI bill to cover post-bacc pre-reqs without seeking a degree. I think you just have to use it at a school that has a non-degree program. From what I can see on the VA website, though, it looks like it would be better to use your VR&E first before your GI Bill if you can.

I'm glad to hear that it worked for someone so far at least! I know it's possible. As I mentioned to the SCO, I can't be the first one to face this issue. There must be something that has been done in the past that I'm looking to do now.

It's difficult to get clarity on using VR&E first because I have seen that it is so very dependent on your counselor for how your program gets approved. And I know using it for medical school is done at least occasionally. But I've seen people mention how they've had issues when they use it for a pathway that's involved multiple levels of school (bachelor then graduate then doctoral sometimes) where they'll be done with some portion of it and have approval rescinded because the counselor may feel like they are employable enough already.

So, I know that I'm going to have a little bit of a case to make in getting VR&E already to approve what I want to do as I'm already employed. Though, while I know that I can't keep doing this job forever and I qualify along the lines of what the VR&E program eligibility guidelines say, it ultimately is up to how well I can demonstrate that to the counselor. What I have heard in others' experiences is that they will not connect the dots themselves, it is up to you to do that for them. So, I really want to make my first interaction with that program an approval.

Especially because I've already used part of my GI Bill, so the way it works will require already convincing them that I'll need them to retroactively induct my GI Bill that I've used into VR&E so that I can get a full coverage of medical school.

 

[BC_89]

Does anyone have any experience with using the GI Bill to cover any post-bacc prereqs you might be missing, but not to use it to complete a full program? I know it needs to be "degree-seeking," so how can I go about justifying it as "degree-seeking" because it's getting prerequisites out of the way that I need to do to actually seek the degree I'm seeking?

GI Bill will cover any degree/certificate seeking program. That being said, some universities also offer non-degree programs. For this reason, I have had plenty of veterans in my undergrad days go ahead and use GI Bill for pre-reqs under the disguise of pursing either a minor (majored in chemistry, seeking minor in biology), or simply applying for "university studies" (essentially the same as interdisciplinary studies). Feeling disingenuous to do this is a bit subjective, as I (subjectively saying) believe pursuing interdisciplinary studies is the best route to indeed knock out those pre-requisites (or minors) to still get the GI Bill benefits without being penalized (even if you don't finish the degree).

I have the ability to pay for just the couple courses I want to take, but I would much prefer to use a couple months of my GI bill to do this if possible since I plan to attempt using VR&E to pay for the medical school.

How much of your GI Bill do you have left? The best route might actually be to save it for medical school to use its full potential (tuition + BAH purposes).

It's difficult to get clarity on using VR&E first because I have seen that it is so very dependent on your counselor for how your program gets approved. And I know using it for medical school is done at least occasionally...

...Especially because I've already used part of my GI Bill, so the way it works will require already convincing them that I'll need them to retroactively induct my GI Bill that I've used into VR&E so that I can get a full coverage of medical school.

So the rule states that for every day you use Chapter 33 benefits (post 9/11), it takes away from your VR&E benefits. Also, between the two programs, you cannot have more than 48 months worth of benefits (rare exceptions). Even though VR&E is used for educational purposes, it is indeed not an educational benefit(s) program, but rather an entry level job employment program (as you are aware). For simplicity, if the time remaining for med school cannot be completed by initiating VR&E (due to subtracting remaining time of eligibility from your GI Bill), it won't get approved (speaking in generality).

BLUF:
1) Using Chapter 33 benefits for non-degree seeking programs or additional degrees happens all the time
2) Combined benefits of Chapter 33 plus Chapter 31 (VR&E) cannot exceed 48 months
3) Time used toward Chapter 33 will subtract time from VR&E and may not cover med school (denied)
4) Might be better off saving GI Bill for med school (pending how much you have left)

Theses links may help with additional resources and web links:

***2023 Update*** FAQs - Post 9/11 & Montgomery GI Bill Benefits - VR&E Chapter 31 Benefits - Edith Nourse Rogers STEM Scholarship

Chapter 31 "Qualifying for Voc-Rehab" Journey

 

[NonTradGladTrad]

GI Bill will cover any degree/certificate seeking program. That being said, some universities also offer non-degree programs. For this reason, I have had plenty of veterans in my undergrad days go ahead and use GI Bill for pre-reqs under the disguise of pursing either a minor (majored in chemistry, seeking minor in biology), or simply applying for "university studies" (essentially the same as interdisciplinary studies). Feeling disingenuous to do this is a bit subjective, as I (subjectively saying) believe pursuing interdisciplinary studies is the best route to indeed knock out those pre-requisites (or minors) to still get the GI Bill benefits without being penalized (even if you don't finish the degree).



How much of your GI Bill do you have left? The best route might actually be to save it for medical school to use its full potential (tuition + BAH purposes).



So the rule states that for every day you use Chapter 33 benefits (post 9/11), it takes away from your VR&E benefits. Also, between the two programs, you cannot have more than 48 months worth of benefits (rare exceptions). Even though VR&E is used for educational purposes, it is indeed not an educational benefit(s) program, but rather an entry level job employment program (as you are aware). For simplicity, if the time remaining for med school cannot be completed by initiating VR&E (due to subtracting remaining time of eligibility from your GI Bill), it won't get approved (speaking in generality).

BLUF:
1) Using Chapter 33 benefits for non-degree seeking programs or additional degrees happens all the time
2) Combined benefits of Chapter 33 plus Chapter 31 (VR&E) cannot exceed 48 months
3) Time used toward Chapter 33 will subtract time from VR&E and may not cover med school (denied)
4) Might be better off saving GI Bill for med school (pending how much you have left)

Theses links may help with additional resources and web links:

***2023 Update*** FAQs - Post 9/11 & Montgomery GI Bill Benefits - VR&E Chapter 31 Benefits - Edith Nourse Rogers STEM Scholarship

Chapter 31 "Qualifying for Voc-Rehab" Journey

Thanks for the response. I presently have 19 months and 19 days left. The more I've looked into it the more I tend to agree that I should probably save any and all remaining benefit I have to maximize my chances of being accepted within VR&E. I was reading about some of the changes they'd made to the 48-hour rule back in 2021, but I think that mostly covers individuals who had not already used any of their GI Bill. And I've read a bit about retroactive induction in order to call that first part VR&E, then allowing the GI Bill to extend past a total of 48 months, but obviously that is by no means a guarantee as retroactive induction is not an entitlement as such and is likely an exception to the rule.

So, since I'm not in need of redoing my prereqs, I think I likely will pay for just the additional classes out of pocket. Not sure, yet, but I definitely have started to lean heavily towards preserving what remains of my GI Bill.

Do you happen to have any idea how many months are used up for 4 years of medical school? I would assume a full 36 months but I'm not totally sure. I'm curious because I've also read VR&E won't approve a program at all if it won't cover it in its entirety, which could mean my only avenue for having them cover it is to be granted retroactive induction, anyway.

EDIT: Using the links provided, I've further found the requirements for retroactive inductions which I'm sure I almost certainly do not qualify for. Number one disqualifier being I was not rated for any disability at the time I last used my GI Bill, as I had not filed any claims until 2022, and I completed my last use of GI Bill in December of 2020. So, retroactive induction is almost certainly a no-go. My thought is definitely leaned towards holding on to as much GI Bill as possible, then, as getting accepted into VR&E is probably going to be very down to the wire in terms of reaching the 48 months total. Or, I would need some sort of exception, which is not something I should expect, as you describe.

 

[BC_89]

So, since I'm not in need of redoing my prereqs, I think I likely will pay for just the additional classes out of pocket. Not sure, yet, but I definitely have started to lean heavily towards preserving what remains of my GI Bill.

I would encourage this regardless of whether or not you qualify for VR&E for med school. The ability to maximize tuition + $1k book stipend + housing rate allowance is better invested as a fulltime medical student rather than picking up a class or two in undergrad.

Also, the more you touch your Chapter 33 benefits, the more it’ll keep taking away from potential chapter 31 (VR&E) benefits, thus further reducing any chances of eligibility to use chapter 31 benefits at all.

Do you happen to have any idea how many months are used up for 4 years of medical school? I would assume a full 36 months but I'm not totally sure.

I’ll let others speak more on medical school benefit approval based on total months of actual schooling that they’ve used.

In general, expect ~8 weeks break from M1 to M2 (unless you do summer research and can have that included as part of your individual written rehabilitation plan (IWRP) and get continual coverage). Otherwise ~2 weeks off between each winter year.

This leaves you ~30 months which wouldn’t cover everything at face value when using the 48-month rule.

I've also read VR&E won't approve a program at all if it won't cover it in its entirety, which could mean my only avenue for having them cover it is to be granted retroactive induction, anyway.

Somewhat of a loop - you couldn’t be considered for any retroactive induction until you’re initially found to be eligible for Chapter 31 benefits. Your VR&E counselor could consider you as having a “serious employment handicap” (SEH) in order for you to be granted an extension of benefits beyond 48 months, but that is up to them and how you present your case. Also, as stated earlier, a retroactive induction would need to be reflected on your IWRP (which you don’t get until approved in the program).

To add to it, it’s still possible to get VR&E and still be denied retroactive induction. All to say, this is a far stretch in predicting coverage for med school when you haven’t been accepted to medical school at this time.



Best case: save your GI Bill for med school. If you get accepted, go ahead and apply for VR&E and see if your counselor approves. If not, you can still use GI Bill at its full potential for a good portion of your continual education.

I know that’s a lot of info but I hope it somewhat helps -