Using Step 1 score in lieu of MCAT score?

[1nycdoc8]

Hello, I'm not sure if this is the right forum to pose this question, but I was wondering if anyone knows if a step 1 score can be used in lieu of a MCAT score in AMCAS.

I am a student at SGU medical school in Grenada looking to reapply into M1 at a US medical school. I'm in my 2nd year and will be taking boards next summer. Thanks for your help!

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[45408]

I can't imagine that they would accept it.

 

[J ROD]

I would say "no".

If you could get a transfer, then the Step 1 score may help.


If you reapply, some schools will accept a MCAT score with 5 years. You more than likely will need to just take the MCAT again!

The biggest problem is explaining all this to the ad com.

SGU is considered the best Caribbean school. Why not just finish there since you are already a couple of years in. There is a very good chance you will not get a second chance at a US MD school. Think it over wisely. Why give up a good chance for not a good chance. There are plenty of Caribbean MDs in the US that are good docs.

 

[1nycdoc8]

I would say "no".

If you could get a transfer, then the Step 1 score may help.


If you reapply, some schools will accept a MCAT score with 5 years. You more than likely will need to just take the MCAT again!

The biggest problem is explaining all this to the ad com.

SGU is considered the best Caribbean school. Why not just finish there since you are already a couple of years in. There is a very good chance you will not get a second chance at a US MD school. Think it over wisely. Why give up a good chance for not a good chance. There are plenty of Caribbean MDs in the US that are good docs.

Thanks J, I appreciate your thoughts and I completely agree with you about the caliber of doctors that come out of SGU but I had the displeasure of experiencing the stigma of coming from a caribbean medical school first hand this summer while shadowing at one of NYC's finest hospitals. They're not used to seeing students from non LCME schools I guess and needless to say, didn't take too kindly to my presence. It was quite odd and I'm hoping I won't ever have to go through something like that ever again. I'd elaborate further but maybe not in a public forum. Thanks again for your input, I didn't know that some schools will take MCAT scores that are up to 5 years old so I'll definitely have to look into that!

 

[nick_carraway]

Thanks J, I appreciate your thoughts and I completely agree with you about the caliber of doctors that come out of SGU but I had the displeasure of experiencing the stigma of coming from a caribbean medical school first hand this summer while shadowing at one of NYC's finest hospitals. They're not used to seeing students from non LCME schools I guess and needless to say, didn't take too kindly to my presence. It was quite odd and I'm hoping I won't ever have to go through something like that ever again. I'd elaborate further but maybe not in a public forum. Thanks again for your input, I didn't know that some schools will take MCAT scores that are up to 5 years old so I'll definitely have to look into that!

Most schools are limited to a 3 year old MCAT score, actually. 5 is on the extreme and I can only think of two schools off the top of my head that allow it.

 

[chiz2kul]

Thanks J, I appreciate your thoughts and I completely agree with you about the caliber of doctors that come out of SGU but I had the displeasure of experiencing the stigma of coming from a caribbean medical school first hand this summer while shadowing at one of NYC's finest hospitals. They're not used to seeing students from non LCME schools I guess and needless to say, didn't take too kindly to my presence. It was quite odd and I'm hoping I won't ever have to go through something like that ever again. I'd elaborate further but maybe not in a public forum. Thanks again for your input, I didn't know that some schools will take MCAT scores that are up to 5 years old so I'll definitely have to look into that!

Please elaborate further...

 

[Kfire326]

Hello, I'm not sure if this is the right forum to pose this question, but I was wondering if anyone knows if a step 1 score can be used in lieu of a MCAT score in AMCAS.

I am a student at SGU medical school in Grenada looking to reapply into M1 at a US medical school. I'm in my 2nd year and will be taking boards next summer. Thanks for your help!

Not sure about this but I'm gonna go with Prowler on this one. Giving a step 1 score means your applying to begin medical school after already earning part of your medical license.. wouldn't make logical sense from the schools' point of view. Have you looked into transferring? If you did well in the preclinical curriculum at your school and have a good step 1 score you might be in luck.

 

[1nycdoc8]

Not sure about this but I'm gonna go with Prowler on this one. Giving a step 1 score means your applying to begin medical school after already earning part of your medical license.. wouldn't make logical sense from the schools' point of view. Have you looked into transferring? If you did well in the preclinical curriculum at your school and have a good step 1 score you might be in luck.

I have looked into transferring and hope it happens, but it seems much harder than getting into a US med school in the first place (which is why I'm considering just reapplying- I really don't mind losing a couple years, I finished undergrad a year early anyway). I have a 4.0 at SGU but my MCAT isn't very good so it seems like I'm going to have to get a 99 on step 1, no prob right?

 

[J ROD]

My advice remains to stay at SGU and finish to become the best MD you can be.

Chances are very good that you will not get into a US MD.

Dont let the opinions of some ignornant folks ruin your focus. There will be that stigma no doubt from some but just prove them wrong with your skills. I am sure they are many other students from the Caribbean that have been through similar things and got through it. I mean you have already put in so much time, effort, and money. Why start over based on someone's opinions.

In the end, you will be a MD and your reputation will be based on your skill and not your degree. Take Step 1 and then go forward to clinicals. Your route will be harder no doubt but it will make you stronger in the end.

Also, check out ValueMD and the Caribbean forum on here and some let some fellow students from the Caribbean back me up. This is not the first time I have heard it.

If you can transfer, then do it. But, I would not start over based on other's thoughts. It is not worth it in the end. MD is MD and skill makes the difference!!

 

[TexasTriathlete]

This is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard

 

[Kaustikos]

I have looked into transferring and hope it happens, but it seems much harder than getting into a US med school in the first place (which is why I'm considering just reapplying- I really don't mind losing a couple years, I finished undergrad a year early anyway). I have a 4.0 at SGU but my MCAT isn't very good so it seems like I'm going to have to get a 99 on step 1, no prob right?

I thought 250 was the average....

 

[BlueElmo]

I thought 250 was the average....

No way, that's way too high to be the average.

 

[Kaustikos]

No way, that's way too high to be the average.

Apologies, I was thinking of something else. Regardless, that's 2.3 times greater than the OPs target score.

 

[19nbj58]

Apologies, I was thinking of something else. Regardless, that's 2.3 times greater than the OPs target score.

No.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Yeah 250 is too high to be average. Isn´t it like 215? I believe the Step 1 has two sets of scores, Theres one up to 300 and then one up to 100 (might correlate to percentile IDK). So I assume by 99 the OP means get a really really high score on the 300 point scale.

 

[Chuck's Right Foot]

You get both a two digit and a three digit score. The two digit score is the percentile. He was saying "99th percentile"

 

[Ashers]

You get both a two digit and a three digit score. The two digit score is the percentile. He was saying "99th percentile"

The 2 digit score is not a percentile -- the USMLE specifically says that. It stopped being a percentile in the early 90s, I think. It's just the 2 digit score. Non-US med students tend to talk more in terms of the 2 digit score. A 99 has a WIDE range -- the year I took step 1 it went from 238 or so up. US med students talk in terms of the 3 digit score.

If you reapply to med schools in the US, I believe you'll have to say that you're matriculated at a medical school already.

 

[Chuck's Right Foot]

The 2 digit score is not a percentile -- the USMLE specifically says that. It stopped being a percentile in the early 90s, I think. It's just the 2 digit score. Non-US med students tend to talk more in terms of the 2 digit score. A 99 has a WIDE range -- the year I took step 1 it went from 238 or so up. US med students talk in terms of the 3 digit score.

If you reapply to med schools in the US, I believe you'll have to say that you're matriculated at a medical school already.

Thanks for the information.

 

[Nylesor]

I wouldn't worry about where you graduated from. How many people ask their doctors what school they got their degree from? This is like the DO stigma. When I shadowed a DO and I asked her patients how they liked having a DO for their doctor, they were like, what's a DO? Isn't she just a doctor? Same deal I think. Just be a good doctor.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Unfortunately, patients aren't the only factors. I agree that pre-meds overemphasize the stigmas, but I can't imagine that there aren't SOME doctors who are like that. It's just that the 1 in 1000 docs that told a pre-med who then told a 1000 pre-meds caused a lot of ruckus. A single pebble causes a lot of waves after all....

 

[dw2158]

I wouldn't worry about where you graduated from. How many people ask their doctors what school they got their degree from? This is like the DO stigma. When I shadowed a DO and I asked her patients how they liked having a DO for their doctor, they were like, what's a DO? Isn't she just a doctor? Same deal I think. Just be a good doctor.

everyone on SDN says this, but i disagree.

maybe i'm a total @ss, but i actually do look at where my doctors went to school. i'm not saying it's a deal breaker-- if someone recommended a particular doctor to me and said s/he was great, i wouldn't decide not to go to them just because their degree was from a less prestigious school. but i certainly pay attention to what the diplomas say, and i won't pretend it doesn't have some sort of effect on my thinking, conscious or unconscious. just sayin'.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

The 2 digit score is not a percentile -- the USMLE specifically says that. It stopped being a percentile in the early 90s, I think. It's just the 2 digit score. Non-US med students tend to talk more in terms of the 2 digit score. A 99 has a WIDE range -- the year I took step 1 it went from 238 or so up. US med students talk in terms of the 3 digit score.

If you reapply to med schools in the US, I believe you'll have to say that you're matriculated at a medical school already.

Some states still reference a two-digit score for licensing. You can imagine it's a lot easier to continue reporting a two-digit score than to get a legislature to act, and so the two-digit score persists.

 

[searun]

Some states still reference a two-digit score for licensing. You can imagine it's a lot easier to continue reporting a two-digit score than to get a legislature to act, and so the two-digit score persists.

What does the two digit score mean? If your two digit score is 99, does that mean that your three digit score was in the top one percent of the med students who took the exam on a particular date???

 

[Depakote]

What does the two digit score mean? If your two digit score is 99, does that mean that your three digit score was in the top one percent of the med students who took the exam on a particular date???

The two digit score is not a percentile. A 75 ~ 185 (passing, which far more than the 75th percentile of students do... I calculated a 185 to be down closer to the 5th percentile) and as above a 99 ~ 238. The mean was 221 this year with a standard deviation of 23, making a 238 roughly 78th percentile. 244 would be 84th percentile and 267 would be 95th percentile. (any 238+ score is a 99 in the 2 digit scoring scheme making the 3 digit scoring scheme more accurate)

The above is assuming they normalize the scores. The NBME does not publish their scoring methods, however they attempt to ensure that the scores from year to year represent the same level of performance.

 

[searun]

Thanks for the clarification, Depakote.

 

[45408]

everyone on SDN says this, but i disagree.

maybe i'm a total @ss, but i actually do look at where my doctors went to school. i'm not saying it's a deal breaker-- if someone recommended a particular doctor to me and said s/he was great, i wouldn't decide not to go to them just because their degree was from a less prestigious school. but i certainly pay attention to what the diplomas say, and i won't pretend it doesn't have some sort of effect on my thinking, conscious or unconscious. just sayin'.

That's because you're a pre-med. Their med school is pretty irrelevant 20 years after graduating (also since their school may not have been prestigious at all when they went there). It's more important to know where they did their residency and fellowship, when it comes to what they're able to do. Also, it's nice to know what they've been doing since. You could graduate from a top school and then not do too much to stay at the cutting edge of your field, or you could graduate from an average school, and then remain very well-read on all the newest research.

 

[dw2158]

That's because you're a pre-med. Their med school is pretty irrelevant 20 years after graduating (also since their school may not have been prestigious at all when they went there). It's more important to know where they did their residency and fellowship, when it comes to what they're able to do. Also, it's nice to know what they've been doing since. You could graduate from a top school and then not do too much to stay at the cutting edge of your field, or you could graduate from an average school, and then remain very well-read on all the newest research.

no one else in my family is pre-med, and it seems to matter to them as well.

 

[MegaProjectile]

That's because you're a pre-med. Their med school is pretty irrelevant 20 years after graduating (also since their school may not have been prestigious at all when they went there). It's more important to know where they did their residency and fellowship, when it comes to what they're able to do. Also, it's nice to know what they've been doing since. You could graduate from a top school and then not do too much to stay at the cutting edge of your field, or you could graduate from an average school, and then remain very well-read on all the newest research.

The general public still associate medical school with clinical training. And also some residency programs only list the name of the hospital you trained at on their graduating diploma. So it's hard for the lay public to even tell which hospitals are "good" unless they are brand names like Mayo, MGH etc. Therefore, most just go by your medical school diploma or something tangible like word-of-mouth recommendation from friends and family.

 

[45408]

The general public still associate medical school with clinical training. And also some residency programs only list the name of the hospital you trained at on their graduating diploma. So it's hard for the lay public to even tell which hospitals are "good" unless they are brand names like Mayo, MGH etc. Therefore, most just go by your medical school diploma or something tangible like word-of-mouth recommendation from friends and family.

That, or mostly referrals from their physician. I'm on a surgery rotation now, and most of my attending's new patients come from referrals from their PCP.

It really comes down to what they do every day. I'm not nearly as concerned where someone trained - if they only do 1-2 thyroid operations a year, why would you go to them if you have a complicated tumor? I just want the guy who does 100 a year.

 

[dw2158]

It really comes down to what they do every day. I'm not nearly as concerned where someone trained - if they only do 1-2 thyroid operations a year, why would you go to them if you have a complicated tumor? I just want the guy who does 100 a year.

well that makes perfect sense. but there are plenty of people out there who, as much as they'd like to claim they look at that stuff, are affected by the prestige level of their doctor's school.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I have looked into transferring and hope it happens, but it seems much harder than getting into a US med school in the first place (which is why I'm considering just reapplying- I really don't mind losing a couple years, I finished undergrad a year early anyway). I have a 4.0 at SGU but my MCAT isn't very good so it seems like I'm going to have to get a 99 on step 1, no prob right?

It may be true that transferring in is harder than just getting accepted in the first place.

However, you won't just be applying like anyone else. You will be applying having completed 2 years of medical school, and will have to explain why you have dropped out and are reapplying. You will be facing a totally different level of scrutiny than the average applicant, and not to be a downer but I don't think your chances will be very good.

 

[fusionx22]

Thanks J, I appreciate your thoughts and I completely agree with you about the caliber of doctors that come out of SGU but I had the displeasure of experiencing the stigma of coming from a caribbean medical school first hand this summer while shadowing at one of NYC's finest hospitals. They're not used to seeing students from non LCME schools I guess and needless to say, didn't take too kindly to my presence. It was quite odd and I'm hoping I won't ever have to go through something like that ever again. I'd elaborate further but maybe not in a public forum. Thanks again for your input, I didn't know that some schools will take MCAT scores that are up to 5 years old so I'll definitely have to look into that!

Not a good enough reason. You're most likely not the only one to have experienced this, and I bet you that others have persevered through it. I mean, best of luck (but you might want to come up with another reason).