USMLE cutoff?

[limabean]

Hi Guys,
In the recent USMLE poll on this forum someone replied that people have matched with with less competitive board scores to good programs but that you have to apply to schools that don't just use a screening cut off. Do you have any ideas on which programs stick to a strick cutoff and which ones don't.
As an applicant I think I would be pretty competitive otherwise(good clinical grades, research(awarded EMF student grant), extra curricular+leadership positions, nice personality-....but am afraid that my Step 1 score may be the kiss of death.
Thanks for your help,
limabean

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[The White Coat Investor]

I am told that lots of programs use them. And no, you'll never actually find out which ones do and don't. The only one I have heard reliable information about was Loma Linda (230), but that, of course is subject to change and will probably be denied if you asked the PD to his face.

 

[FoughtFyr]

I'm in the same boat. O.k. grades first two years, so-so step 1 score, great clinical grades (all top score so far), research (including an international conference presentation), activities and 10 years experience as firefighter/paramedic. Once worse, my school (at least at the campus I'm on) does not have an EM residency.

SIGH ---

 

[Sheerstress]

I know for a fact that Grand Rapids used to have a cutoff of 190 on Step 1, but that may have changed.

If there's any question on a given school, call the program's office, and ask them point blank as to whether they have a USMLE cutoff.

 

[Apollyon]

Originally posted by Sheerstress
I know for a fact that Grand Rapids used to have a cutoff of 190 on Step 1, but that may have changed.

178 (or thereabouts) is passing, right? I just get this image of "D+ or better ONLY!".

 

[Sheerstress]

I'm just saying what a GR faculty member told me some time ago. And I DO NOT know if it's still true.

As stated above, I would imagine that some programs out there will only look at students who have scores of 230 or more. Some programs may set it lower at 200.

Perhaps GR decided to use the 190 cutoff because they needed a means of screening applicants, but at the same time realized that USMLE scores are not the be-all-and-end-all as to whether one is going to succeed in medicine, and that using them to "trump" an otherwise decent applicant could be to their disadvantage.

I know excellent EM physicians who passed USMLE Part I by the skin of their teeth, and did just fine in residency and in practice. I think it's to GR's credit that they recognize that this is often the case.

 

[Apollyon]

Dude - sorry, dude, no stress! With some levity, all I was saying is that it was only a mite above passing, so, why bother?

No stress...sorry for any inference.

Believe me, if anyone knows about barely passing, I'm your man.

 

[Sheerstress]

I wasn't inferring anything from your post - no stress at all! Perhaps little time is saved from reviewing applications by having a low cutoff.

I will admit to a little frustration at programs that set these cutoffs and then when a potential applicant asks, don't have the courtesy to tell them that their application won't even be reviewed, thereby wasting the person's money and everybody's time.

 

[Sheerstress]

On another note, Metropolitan Hospital in NYC has a cutoff of 80, which doesn't seem too high above the passing level of 75, although I don't know how that would convert to the three-number score.

 

[Scrubbs]

As previously stated, I think a lot of the "really good" programs have cutoffs... I've heard 230 for a few. However, there are a lot of programs that don't weigh Step 1 as highly as Step 2. For those who are concerned about their Step 1, I would definitely recommend taking Step 2 early enough to have it on your app (by the end of Sept). I did pretty mediocre on Step 1 (207) and went up about 20 points on Step 2, and I think it really helped. I took it late September, had my app in first week of Sept, and the interviews started rolling in a few days after my Step 2 got posted (end of October). I ended up getting 20-someodd interviews, so no worries.

Good luck to all!

 

[gimmedog]

I've heard from a residency rep that USMLE isn't as important as people may think. A great score may help, and under 200 may hurt you. In the middle it's not all that important. The article posted on SAEM supports the under 200 theory.

http://saem.org/download/54_60.pdf

 

[fauci]

I am convinced that many programs use the scores to screen for interviews, regardless of what you are told.

i would also strongly consider taking step 2 if step 1 is mediocre. I also went up, 215 to 241.

 

[sgufmg]

For US graduates, I believe most programs have either very low minimums, 80s, or none whatsoever. However, for foreign medical graduates, the standards are higher. To have a decent chance at EM, an FMG (US citizen or non-US citizen) should have 85+ (step I and step II). Without these scores, you should try to excel and honor your EM rotation, do an EM research project, and have an excellent SAEM SLOR form. Most importantly, do a rotation at a place with an EM residency. Not only will this help you get into that program but a letter from an EM program director is generally valued much higher than a letter from a non-faculty EM attending.

Also, join the SAEM virtual advisor program. This may allow you develop a relationship with an EM Program/Associate Program Director.

 

[Nof55]

Limabean,
Don't worry about the cutoff rumors you hear, just take appropriate steps to present yourself the best way you can. I am a member of the under 200 club for Step 1 had to take a good look at myself and how I did the application process.

1. I agree with the previous thread, take Step 2 early and rock it! If your Step 1 score appears as an anomally, PDs will treat it as such. I ended up cranking up the score 40 points, and from other threads this is not unusual.
2. You will have to apply to a ton of programs for interviews. I applied to 40, which may be a bit excessive - but hey I matched!
3. Do more interviews than others, it sounds like you would interview well and that does carry weight in EM. I got 36 invitations and went to 15 - again excessive in retrospect.
4. Do amazing on your away rotations at places that have well known PDs and get strong SLORs ( a no-brainer ).

Good luck and don't panic! I ended up doing better than I ever could have imagined after having some people tell me I wouldn't even match in EM.

Nof55

 

[limabean]

Thanks for all the great advice and hope guys.I was really starting to panic and had to re-group. I just registered for Step 2 and am prepaired to kick some USMLE @$$!! Good luck and stay strong for those of you who are in the same boat.

EM or Bust!!
-limabean

 

[DrQuinn]

Good luck, Lima Bean!
Q

 

[edinOH]

I for one can guaran-damned-tee you that many programs use Step 1 scores as a screening tool. Seeing as how I scored an incredibly impressive 194 on step one but other wise had a very solid application and received the high-hard one from most programs I applied to, I know this to be true.

Thankfully I overcame this problem by applying to 44 programs, interviewing at 14 and matching at my second choice.

Also remember that taking step 2 early can be a double edged sword so to speak. If you do well, great! But if you do poorly or only slightly better than step 1, then you will have just legitimized your previous score. I took mine too late to be included in the ERAS but early enough for PDs to see it during and after my interview. So in essence I waited until I was invited for interviews before taking the test in case I ****ed it up. In the end I improved my score but going into the thing I was willing to risk that the test could do more harm than good.