USMLE Step 2 CS ... how ridiculous!!!

[Butch]

---

Members do not see this ad.

1000 dollars ... FOR WHAT?

 

[8744]

Please visit my humble blog and scroll down to "Highway Robbery."

 

[EctopicFetus]

1000 dollars ... FOR WHAT?

Because the debt we all carry is clearly not enough. What a waste of time. I passed and my score report doesnt tell me squat. Meanwhile my wallet is oh so much lighter.

 

[FlindersGrad]

Interestingly enough, the Step 2 CS exam was developed by a group of psychiatrists. They found that having thousands of medical students keen to complete histories and physical exams on patients was an excellent therapeutic outlet for people with Munchausen Syndrome.

You should be excited about the chance to "give back" to the system that has certainly given so much to you.

 

[wook]

1000 dollars ... FOR WHAT?

Agreed. What a waste of money!! 😡

 

[pgg]

Please visit my humble blog and scroll down to "Highway Robbery."

It had it's origin in the the clinical skills test administered to foriegn medical graduates to ascertain their level of english proficiency"

 

[phllystyl]

le sigh...

time to start using the <sarcasm> tags 😉

 

[bigfrank]

Please visit my humble blog and scroll down to "Highway Robbery."

I'm not a fan of blogs as a rule, but I think yours is very well done.

 

[thos]

Any more word on the rumor that it will be done away with after this year? (Too late for my $, but keeping my fingers crossed for my sig other).

 

[bigfrank]

Any more word on the rumor that it will be done away with after this year? (Too late for my $, but keeping my fingers crossed for my sig other).

urban legend

 

[yaah]

The answer to why this test is being done is simple: Lawyers.

Sure, some of it has to do with money, but at the same time there are a lot of costs which go into administering this test, so they are unlikely making huge profits. It is lawyers. Lawyers have made malpractice such a part of the equation that everyone is doing whatever they can to limit liability. I would not be surprised if this is a large part of the impetus for this colossal waste of resources. If they can show that a student passed a test which (supposedly) tests ability to interact with patients and perform certain basic skills, their liability is reduced.

What galls me the most is that they justify this test with data like asking the general public if they believe doctors should have to pass an exam which tests their ability to relate to patients and interact with them, etc etc. What do you think people are going to say? No? Of course it sounds like a good idea! What people fail to realize is that these skills are precisely what medical schools should be teaching, and evaluating them on a standardized basis is bull****. If a med school is not producing students who can pass this test, they have no business being a med school. During med school, I had no less than 4 of these sessions, on which I was graded, during my 3rd and 4th years. WHY on earth would I have to do another one? I was lucky, I was the last class for whom this test was unnecessary, but I am still royally peeved about it.

This test doesn't do anything to make anyone a better doctor. All it does is increase bitterness and debt and work to try to make everyone into a manipulated robot who does what he/she is told.

 

[chicamedica]

1000 dollars ... FOR WHAT?

yeah it was 1000 bucks just to get that measly Pass in the mail. What a waste of time and money, i totally hear you.

 

[erkin777]

I have heard some claim that one reason for the CS exam was that some FMG's threatened to sue because AMG's didn't have to take the exam. I don't know how true that is.

My American medical school prepared us well for the CS exam. So it was easy to pass. But I certainly agree it is rediculus to require AMG's to do it. I can understand why FMG's must take the exam.

 

[NoodleIncident]

I have heard some claim that one reason for the CS exam was that some FMG's threatened to sue because AMG's didn't have to take the exam. I don't know how true that is.

My American medical school prepared us well for the CS exam. So it was easy to pass. But I certainly agree it is rediculus to require AMG's to do it. I can understand why FMG's must take the exam.

Although I think that the test is a waste for the majority of med students, I don't think that it is ridiculous. It helps identify those that just aren't up to snuff on their clinical or interpersonal skills. Case in point:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=274347

We all know of those that may have cruised by on their grades, but just suck when it comes to patient contact. This test can force them to re-evaluate how they deal with patients and their colleagues, and also to take a look at themselves to figure out what might be going wrong.

 

[Mumpu]

By the time you take Step 2CS, it should be fairly obvious if you are unfit to be a physician. Perhaps med schools just don't have the heart/balls to break the news?

 

[fishmonger69]

By the time you take Step 2CS, it should be fairly obvious if you are unfit to be a physician. Perhaps med schools just don't have the heart/balls to break the news?

they don't have the balls, nor do they wish to fail a certain percentage of students and risk losing funding. it's rather sad, but one of the first things our class was told upon entering medical school was "the hard part is over; you have to work hard to fail out of medical school".

 

[mig26x]

there are rumors that the CS is gonna be eliminated soon.

 

[Butch]

Although I think that the test is a waste for the majority of med students, I don't think that it is ridiculous. It helps identify those that just aren't up to snuff on their clinical or interpersonal skills. Case in point:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=274347

We all know of those that may have cruised by on their grades, but just suck when it comes to patient contact. This test can force them to re-evaluate how they deal with patients and their colleagues, and also to take a look at themselves to figure out what might be going wrong.

With all due respect. PLEASE, give me a break.

If a given student is really that deficient in clinical accumen, then a medical school should be able to identify the problem. As far as I am concerned the only "clinical" skills the exam tests is introducing oneself, washing hands, and being organized enough to show up to the test center on time. ]

 

[MacGyver]

I dont know if FMGs were threatenign lawsuits or not, and I dont know if lawyers are really the reason why we have this nonsense exam.

But if FMGs were in fact bitching, then they need to shut the hell up. We can set up any barriers we want to foreign doctors. It is a PRIVILEGE to come here, NOT a right. IF they dont like it they can stay in their ****ty ass poverty stricken 3rd world nation.

I'm sure FMGs will start sueing to get rid of the ECFMG process, claiming its "discriminatory" Our society has more of this nonsense liberal PC crap every year

OK back to the topic at hand. My gut instinct is this has to do with a bunch of holier than thou med school administrators who want to use CS to fund AAMC, as well as instill their piety on the rest of us sinners

The people who dreamed up CS are the same ridiculous prick faculty at your med school who tell you that you have to sing cumbayah to all your patients because it helps you to "feel their pain"

These fools are the same idiots who still live in the dream world of the 50s and 60s when doctors were kings of the healthcare system. They like to put doctors up on some kind of pedestal, failing to realize that lawyers and general public tore down that pedestal long ago.

 

[NoodleIncident]

With all due respect. PLEASE, give me a break.

If a given student is really that deficient in clinical accumen, then a medical school should be able to identify the problem. As far as I am concerned the only "clinical" skills the exam tests is introducing oneself, washing hands, and being organized enough to show up to the test center on time. ]

Really? You think a medical school would be able to identify the problem? How many housestaff do you know who have terrible bedside manner, but did graduate medical school? No, a medical school should, but cannot reliably identify the problem. PLEASE, give me a break.

 

[Realtime]

And of course the testing itself is sooo reliable....

http://www.usmle.org/news/Step2CSNews/2005Step2CSscoring.htm

Wasn't that the first year it was actually administered? Hoepfully they worked the bugs out this year.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Correct me if I am wrong. so 5% of US Grads are crappy when it comes to pt interactions so that means that 95% of us ( I passed) should foot the bill to identify them? Makes sense. We had a mock CS at my school that I destroyed and I dont know how I did on the real thing but Im sure i did quite well. Bottom line is they should save these resources and push through some meaningful tort reform.

 

[Butch]

Really? You think a medical school would be able to identify the problem? How many housestaff do you know who have terrible bedside manner, but did graduate medical school? No, a medical school should, but cannot reliably identify the problem. PLEASE, give me a break.

PLEASE, chillax and give yourself a break. I enjoy writing please in all-caps.

My sarcasm was directed at the notion that a silly exam has any utility.

Yes, a medical school should be able to identify the problem. Why can't they?

This is off-topic. My initial statement was that the Step 2CS is useless.

 

[spalatin]

My sarcasm was directed at the notion that a silly exam has any utility.

. . .

This is off-topic. My initial statement was that the Step 2CS is useless.

Is not!

lessee...$1k for the NBME, $400 for the financially troubled airlines, $150 for the hotel, a few thousand more Philly cheese steaks sold, x 27000 (for those few who need to do it again) adds up to +/- $25 Million for the NBME, and Philly gets a few more millions to help the local economy along. And they close for a couple weeks in January and June, so they can go skiing and fishing. So, ain't not useless, where else can you make that kind of money for that little effort and no risk 'tall!

gatta look at da bright side a tings!

 

[monkeyarms]

i believe for an extra $25 the nbme will send you a couple of those packets of surgi-lube and some daffodils so you'll feel better when it's all over 🙂

 

[DrNick2006]

Really? You think a medical school would be able to identify the problem? How many housestaff do you know who have terrible bedside manner, but did graduate medical school? No, a medical school should, but cannot reliably identify the problem. PLEASE, give me a break.

and the cs test can? A subjectively graded test without any feedback to the test taker, without any outcomes data to support it, designed to fix the problem with what exactly in the first place? Even though medical schools have to mantain strict clinical curriculum to keep LCME accredidation. step 2 cs is a bull**** test and a waste of my money, and I feel robbed.

 

[mig26x]

and the cs test can? A subjectively graded test without any feedback to the test taker, without any outcomes data to support it, designed to fix the problem with what exactly in the first place? Even though medical schools have to mantain strict clinical curriculum to keep LCME accredidation. step 2 cs is a bull**** test and a waste of my money, and I feel robbed.

amen!!!

 

[Butch]

and the cs test can? A subjectively graded test without any feedback to the test taker, without any outcomes data to support it, designed to fix the problem with what exactly in the first place? Even though medical schools have to mantain strict clinical curriculum to keep LCME accredidation. step 2 cs is a bull**** test and a waste of my money, and I feel robbed.

The word you were looking for is extortion. That is simply what Step2CS is all about.