USMLE vs AMC

[tohfa]

Hey Friends, i am a medical student in my last year.
I am really mess up alot with which country i should select for residency.
Oz or USA?
the fact that entering in OZ health system is short process and gives u good amount of money,whereas for US passing USMLE and the visa problems and the payment almost same as the OZ( might be some less but as i have read the starters get the same pay even IMG's in Oz get more pay than US)
Please share ur ideas and help me out.
Thank You.

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[Winged Scapula]

How about some more information about you?

Where are you a student?

What country are you a citizen of?

What country do you have the goal of working beyond residency in?

 

[rox]

What speciality are you interested in?

 

[Inderjeet]

Actually m also suffering from d same delimma, m a medical student in india, in 1 year i'll b startin my internship,,, and d real confusion begings after that,,, m not sure whether to apply for usmle, apply for amc, or juz prepare for post grad in india,, d speciality m intrested in is orthopedics.., so,, what shud i do...??

 

[PacificBlue2012]

Hey Friends, i am a medical student in my last year.
I am really mess up alot with which country i should select for residency.
Oz or USA?
the fact that entering in OZ health system is short process and gives u good amount of money,whereas for US passing USMLE and the visa problems and the payment almost same as the OZ( might be some less but as i have read the starters get the same pay even IMG's in Oz get more pay than US)
Please share ur ideas and help me out.
Thank You.

Australia is closed to IMGs, so that should answer your question for you. The IMGs who work in Australia usually come from Europe and the UK, and an occasional North American.

 

[pitman]

Australia is closed to IMGs, so that should answer your question for you. The IMGs who work in Australia usually come from Europe and the UK, and an occasional North American.

So which is it? Are you saying that Austrlia is closed to IMGs, or just to those not from Europe or the US? If you mean not for internship, last year there were IMGs doing internship here, and you mentioned elsewhere you think there are internship spots available this year to those who want them, so I'm wondering what you're actually claiming?

 

[PacificBlue2012]

What I am saying is that Australia is generally closed to IMGs, its not like the US where an IMG from a foreign country can apply to residency programs. You see a few OTDs in training in Australia but nothing like in the US. There are foreign trained doctors working with full registration in Australia but that is because they come from countries where their training is recognized by the registration authorities in Australia. In general physicians from the UK have few problems registering in Australia. There is also the 10 year rule for OTDs in Australia, that is a big hurdle because most of the major hospitals are in the larger cities. And doctors from the US and Europe are subject to that rule as well. Also US trained Osteopathic physicians are running into problems being recognized as physicians in Australia.

It just happens to be a rule that most IMGs in Australia tend to be European trained. And its a fact that doctors from developed countries have few hurdles to practicing in Australia compared to those from developed nations. Canada is similar in this regard as well, that is why many Canadians come to Australia for medical school, since their chances of going back to Canada are better than say a Caribbean or other foreign medical school. Also Australian residency training is recognized in Canada. Canada has quite a bit of favoritism towards doctors trained in English speaking countries.

Its also a fact that the USA is a lot more IMG friendly than Australia. I have seen more overseas doctors working in Australia over the past few years, we are probably more open to IMGs than say Canada but overall its not like the US. I believe one in three US doctors are foreign graduates of non US medical schools.

I live in NSW, and most international students who just graduated were able to stay for internship, actually just about anyone who I knew who wanted to stay was able to do so. One of the reasons why most state governments are hesitant to guarantee training spots to international students is that so many often leave once they get a spot back home. There are also many other ways for internationals to stay in Australia, marriage is one sure way to get legal status. Also the North Americans I knew were able to match back home, maybe not in the best programs but they were able to go home. I am guessing that with new medical schools opening up in the US, that most North Americans in the future will probably have to settle for Internal Medicine and Family Practice and Specialty training will be harder to get.

I actually lived in the US for a quite some time, had a good experience there, but having to choose between working as a physician in Australia vs. the US, Australia wins hands down.

 

[Leforte]

Pick where you want to live and do your postgraduate training there.

As to which place is more IMG friendly, it all depends. Agree with the above that it is likely easier to get a US residency than an Australian one. In either place, it is difficult for an IMG to get into a competitive specialty - not impossible, but you'd better be a superstar.

As far aso licensing after residency - it is likely easier in Australia. In the USA, you can get a license after 1-2 years of additional training, but you cannot sit for the Board exams unless you completed your residency in the US. If you are not Board certified or Board eligible, good luck with getting on insurance plans or getting hospital privileges. In Australia, you pass the AMC exams, do 1-2 years of supervised practice and you can be registered. You can also be recognized as a foreign trained specialist, which is a separate pathway, altogether. As said before, those coming from Commonwealth countries have it easier, followed by the US and the rest of Europe, followed by third world countries. Whichever way you get registered in Australia, however, you are required to practice 10 years in an underserved area to obtain reimbursement from Medicare. There have been many threads about this, and I'd suggest you search for them in this forum.

 

[pitman]

What I am saying is that Australia is generally closed to IMGs, its not like the US where an IMG from a foreign country can apply to residency programs. You see a few OTDs in training in Australia but nothing like in the US. There are foreign trained doctors working with full registration in Australia but that is because they come from countries where their training is recognized by the registration authorities in Australia. In general physicians from the UK have few problems registering in Australia. There is also the 10 year rule for OTDs in Australia, that is a big hurdle because most of the major hospitals are in the larger cities. And doctors from the US and Europe are subject to that rule as well. Also US trained Osteopathic physicians are running into problems being recognized as physicians in Australia.

But PacificBlue, that's quite a bit different than answering the perp's question about residency by saying, "Australia is closed to IMGs". He/she is really asking about coming as an intern/house officer.

If I had to guess by the name, I'd think Tohfa is most likely Indian. In Queensland, there are a lot of Indian and Pakistani house officers along with Kiwis and Europeans. My internship year I worked with a Balinese and a Russian house officer. That opportunity will eventually dry up, but seeing that Tohfa will be seeking residency soon, I think it's premature to assume the country will be closed to him/her. Once here as a house officer, I don't think there'd be any training program off limits. As to the moratorium, that wouldn't affect training except for GPs having to do the rural route, but it's also now a maximum of 10 years, down to just 5, with the new RA system.

For specialists, I'd add there are a lot of South Africans in the mix. I do agree that it's easier for specialists from some countries to get registered here, but that's because many are exempt from the AMC process. As to the moratorium, it doesn't apply in practice to areas of need (not just for Districts of Workforce Shortage) as exemptions are routinely given in Qld, so it's pretty easy to be in or near Brisbane for many specialists (my S. African former anaesthetics boss, as one example).

One of the reasons why most state governments are hesitant to guarantee training spots to international students is that so many often leave once they get a spot back home.

I don't believe this to be a reason for most, though it is a concern that's discussed. It's certainly not the case in Queensland, where everyone involved from the schools, Q Health, to the govt, would like to be able to create enough intern spots for everyone if it were possible. It's just that they can't, and the first to get screwed are therefore non-Australians, while with current trends Australians are also eventually not going to be safe.

 

[PacificBlue2012]

House officer is a different thing, most of the consultants I have met who are foreign trained are usually from Britain or elsewhere in Europe. Australia recognizes British qualifications and those from Ireland. In fact, if I am not mistaken, Dr. Wilkinson is British trained, and he is the head of UQ Medicine.

Australia overall is not as open as the US, but frankly speaking Australia is a better place to live and work than the US. I am actually originally from the States and migrated many years ago to Australia so I can credibly say this because I lived in both places.

I think the problem with international students these days in Australian medical schools is that in the past many internationals who secured internships or further training often left once they got into a residency in their home country, and this is particularly so of North Americans, and now most states are not as eager to extend these to internationals. Also the exchange rate, since the US dollar is losing value, makes Australia an expensive place to study medicine.

 

[Yooly]

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[bantu]

Pick where you want to live and do your postgraduate training there.

As to which place is more IMG friendly, it all depends. Agree with the above that it is likely easier to get a US residency than an Australian one. In either place, it is difficult for an IMG to get into a competitive specialty - not impossible, but you'd better be a superstar.

As far aso licensing after residency - it is likely easier in Australia. In the USA, you can get a license after 1-2 years of additional training, but you cannot sit for the Board exams unless you completed your residency in the US. If you are not Board certified or Board eligible, good luck with getting on insurance plans or getting hospital privileges. In Australia, you pass the AMC exams, do 1-2 years of supervised practice and you can be registered. You can also be recognized as a foreign trained specialist, which is a separate pathway, altogether. As said before, those coming from Commonwealth countries have it easier, followed by the US and the rest of Europe, followed by third world countries. Whichever way you get registered in Australia, however, you are required to practice 10 years in an underserved area to obtain reimbursement from Medicare. There have been many threads about this, and I'd suggest you search for them in this forum.

hi there,
really appreciate for handing out this valuable information ...i also hav few question wanna ask if u know any good hospitals offering specialzation for cardio or deramatology.or if u recommend any?..i m on my final year ( 4th year doing mbbs ) in china ..will dey accept my degree there? ,..also do i have to apply any exams like tofle or IELTS?,,,can v also apply for house job or do in have to do in back in india ?...thnx in advance

 

[al kasser]

hi friends

its so nice to joining you. i,m medical doctor i had finished my study at 2000 and i preparing for AMC exam. i,d like to ask about the chance to find a jop as GP in australia and how can i get speciality in australia specially i,m highly intrested with cardiology. my nane is Omar and i,m from iraq.
thank you