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I took the USMLE today and the COMLEX a week ago.
I hereby proclaim that the USMLE is easier than the COMLEX.
Discuss.
I hereby proclaim that the USMLE is easier than the COMLEX.
Discuss.
bigfrank said:One final thought: It stands to reason that DOs will tend to believe that their test is the most difficult and MDs will believe that their test is the most difficult one. Different people will find different reasons to justify their beliefs.
However, it is philosophically unsound to believe that allopathic residency directors would prefer the COMLEX -- that's just silly.
Chalk this one up to another topic that people will argue about for 100 pages and no one's mind will be changed.
goooooober said:On the other hand, try applying to very competative allopathic residencies like derm or Rads or trying to apply to allo surgery without USMLE. You might as well not apply. That is not to say that none has ever been able to accomplish it, just that it is nearly impossible. Peace out.
goooooober said:It makes sense that allopathic PDs favor USMLE over COMLEX, afterall, it is the test that they took and most of their applicants take, thus they know what it is. However, I think depending on the specialty, there are many allopathic PDs that are okay with COMLEX. If you are applying to IM, ER, FM, OB/GYN, Peds then allopathic PDs are probably going to be okay with the COMLEX (depending on the program) both because they are desparate for applicants and because they have traditionally had a lot of osteopathic applicants and are comfortable with translation of COMLEX scores. However, they will probably still favor USMLE if you have taken it. On the other hand, try applying to very competative allopathic residencies like derm or Rads or trying to apply to allo surgery without USMLE. You might as well not apply. That is not to say that none has ever been able to accomplish it, just that it is nearly impossible. Peace out.
I don't recall that anyone did say that an allopathic program would prefer the COMLEX. The point is that you can get a non-competitive residency(psych, internal, family) at a competitive program with just a COMLEX score. maybe they won't prefer it, but nonetheless you can get in, and it's not too difficult.bigfrank said:One final thought: It stands to reason that DOs will tend to believe that their test is the most difficult and MDs will believe that their test is the most difficult one. Different people will find different reasons to justify their beliefs.
However, it is philosophically unsound to believe that allopathic residency directors would prefer the COMLEX -- that's just silly.
Chalk this one up to another topic that people will argue about for 100 pages and no one's mind will be changed.
You could also state that these same residencies that don't except osteo students are likely not to accept students from lower tier allopathic schools. I have no info for that, just a thought. I would assume doing ortho at harvard, for example, would probably require that you graduate from a top 25 allopathic school regardless of any other criteria.oudoc08 said:As is common knowledge, history as well as program statistics suggest that most of the most competitive allopathic specialities admit very, very few osteopathic graduates, regardless of whether or not they've taken the USMLE. So I don't know as it's a valid argument as to whether or not the USMLE vs. the COMLEX makes the difference, as I'm fairly sure that most osteopathic graduates seeking more competive MD residencies would have taken the USMLE. On the flip side, as was suggested, most of the noncompetitive residencies who are desperate for applicants such as OB/GYN, psych, path, etc. probably don't give a flip what letters you have behind your name, or what licensure exam.
I would think only the moderate specialties such as anesthesia, EM, etc. would be the debatable point, and even then it would likely be PD specific.
HoodyHoo said:You could also state that these same residencies that don't except osteo students are likely not to accept students from lower tier allopathic schools. I have no info for that, just a thought. I would assume doing ortho at harvard, for example, would probably require that you graduate from a top 25 allopathic school regardless of any other criteria.
bigfrank said:However, it is philosophically unsound to believe that allopathic residency directors would prefer the COMLEX -- that's just silly.
Idiopathic said:Im just saying that Pox simply cannot know the answers to: a) which is harder
Idiopathic said:and b) that USMLE is 'way preferred', like he asserts.
Idiopathic said:For him to attest to either statement is pure lunacy, as he has no experience with it on either side.
Idiopathic said:I never said COMLEX was better.
Pox in a box said:P.S. I'm done with this conversation. I tried to make good discussion but only a couple of people were interested in giving good arguments.
Idiopathic said:Hey dont try and make yourself out as some poor abused soul. I certainly make good arguments and write clear and concise opinions. You came in here spouting 'facts' about stuff you really dont know that much about given your frame of reference, and then you expect everyone to hold their commentary? Gimme a break man. I wish you the best, but I think you probably should have sat this one out.
POX's statements:
"If you go into an interview, do you think they give a rats about your COMLEX if you took both?"
"That's the most ignorant statement you've ever made. Think about why." (re: which test is harder)
"Isn't USMLE preferred hands down?"
"I'm just stating facts. The only residency programs that care about COMLEX are osteopath programs."
All you know is that the USMLE is harder than the MCAT (or vice versa). Your thoughts are only speculation, passed off as fact, and its hella-lame.
But good luck
OSUdoc08 said:Listen up, MD students!
Some of you are in here because you historically love antagonizing me. Others simply like to bash DOs. Either way, if you have not taken the COMLEX, you have no place in this forum. Arguing with my fellow DO students only embarasses yourself.
If you have not taken both exams you cannot argue how you felt after you took both exams. Period.
Way to revive one of your whiney threads.OSUdoc08 said:Listen up, MD students!
Some of you are in here because you historically love antagonizing me. Others simply like to bash DOs. Either way, if you have not taken the COMLEX, you have no place in this forum. Arguing with my fellow DO students only embarasses yourself.
If you have not taken both exams you cannot argue how you felt after you took both exams. Period.
OSUdoc08 said:Listen up, MD students!
Some of you are in here because you historically love antagonizing me. Others simply like to bash DOs. Either way, if you have not taken the COMLEX, you have no place in this forum. Arguing with my fellow DO students only embarasses yourself.
If you have not taken both exams you cannot argue how you felt after you took both exams. Period.
bigfrank said:Of course you would, and Pox and I know why.
He likes to bait allopathic medical students by making claims that cannot be disproven and also [attempt to] elevate his osteopathic education.JohnnyOU said:Tell us !!!!!!! Tell us!!!!!!
Oh heck.... I thought you had a secret...not common knowledgebigfrank said:He likes to bait allopathic medical students by making claims that cannot be disproven and also [attempt to] elevate his osteopathic education.
It is extremely consistent with his postings and obvious personality.
Methinks he protests too much.
Idiopathic said:One of which he knows absolutely nothing about. Thats my point. No program would overlook a top notch applicant with a top COMLEX score because he/she didnt take the USMLE and no program would value a DO more because he took the USMLE. Some may like the test for comparison purposes (who wouldnt?).
Now, I took the test because I felt that having done well on two standardized exams (as opposed to one) was much better for my residency app. It showed versatility and adaptability. I also have encouraged DO students not to take USMLE if they didnt think they could do very well on it (i.e. not beating the mean not very helpful). Just opinion, again, but at least I have some evidence.
I know. I thought you of all people would have known that!!!JohnnyOU said:Oh heck.... I thought you had a secret...not common knowledge
I can neither confirm nor deny this assertion.surrender903 said:thats the reason i PM'ed you bigfrank, i thought it was like he is a leper or something..
DHMO said:These tests are both standardized, which means that the 'difficulty' of each test is based on the population that takes it, not the material covered by the test. Without trying to start a flame war, I would argue that the average allopathic student scores higher on standardized tests than the average osteopathic student. I would bet the weaker osteopathic students do not elect to take the USMLE, and even with this selection bias, the passage rate is still higher for MD students than DO students on the USMLE. So, I would think that the USMLE is harder to pass/get a great score on the the COMLEX, however I do not have any numbers to back up these statements, only logic. Maybe the COMLEX has only a 50% pass rate while the USMLE is ~90%.
ar do said:You can't just assume that DO students taking both tests are approaching the usmle with the same effort that they are giving to the comlex. After all, All DO studnets must pass the comlex to graduate from their school and get their degree. USMLE is just an additional extension of the torture-- which for some means everything in the world. I mean, ideally, if you're going to sign up for it, you should try to do your best. But for others, is just not as important when it comes down to the day. I know many people who just lost their momentum after taking one test; many others who cancelled the usmle altogether after making it thru comlex. And yet others who just didn't strategize their studying around usmle as their main focus--- passing the comlex is more important. So, you really can't get a fair comparison of do vs md med students' performance on the usmle.
Playing the martyr role now, are we?OSUdoc08 said:Off in Mexico for 8 days and I had forgotten how friendly you guys are...
oh...wait.....
ar do said:You can't just assume that DO students taking both tests are approaching the usmle with the same effort that they are giving to the comlex. After all, All DO studnets must pass the comlex to graduate from their school and get their degree. USMLE is just an additional extension of the torture-- which for some means everything in the world. I mean, ideally, if you're going to sign up for it, you should try to do your best. But for others, is just not as important when it comes down to the day. I know many people who just lost their momentum after taking one test; many others who cancelled the usmle altogether after making it thru comlex. And yet others who just didn't strategize their studying around usmle as their main focus--- passing the comlex is more important. So, you really can't get a fair comparison of do vs md med students' performance on the usmle.
[/QUOTE]coyotelove said:PLease! Is there a thread for just the comlex? Does it really ignore biochem and test heavy on OMM and neuro/musculoskel?
Can I pass it without knowing shiite about sacroiliac dx? or iliosacral or whatever the f*&k that's all about?
I just want to know if the Kaplan comlex questions are worth doing for the real test. They are really ******ed. It seems like some good ole boys club of DOs in plaid jackets are trying to prove to the world that they actually do structural exams on all their patients. "Helicopter crash victim has a t4FSRRS, besides being 2 minutes from going to the light...which Chapman reflex would you test?" GIVE ME A BREAK!!!! Is anyone under the age of 60 involved in writing the comlex?
Is the real COMLEX this osteopathetic?
(QUOTE=OSUdoc08]As always, thanks for the helpful contributions!
Please----tell us more.....
docmd2010 said:I tend to agree with what most of you said-but I don't necessarily agree with you saying that "no program would value a DO more because he took the USMLE" . If an applicant takes the USMLE and does really well (also does well on COMLEX), than that PD is going to recognize the value of that applicant. He most likely being an MD, knows the difficulty of the exam because he/she has been through it himself, and a high score on the USMLE speaks higher than a high score on the COMLEX. my dad is the director of pediatric residencies at a prestigious program and that is exactly what he told me. he told me flat out that DO's have a better chance if they post a good USMLE score. Sure, if you have only COMLEX, you may still have a shot, but if someone that has the same comlex score but also a good usmle score-will probably given preference. this is just information that is coming from my dad, an MD, who is a director or an allopathic residency.
(nicedream) said:Don't buy that because to do well on the COMLEX you just need to study for the USMLE and spend a day on OMT from what I hear. Most DO students use First Aid for the USMLE and all the other review books geared towards the USMLE don't they? Or do they spend their time cracking backs to prepare?
Idiopathic said:They do use those sources, because they have to, as no real comprehensive COMLEX source material exists. That does not mean that it covers all the material or that the question sources can approximate the ridiculousness of the exam. Its not harder because it borrows from a more difficult selection of material (medicine is medicine is medicine) and the OMT isnt that hard, but the question writing styles and the lack of uniformity between instruction makes the test very difficult.
FYI, this is at the top of a Google Search for this topic... someone should just erase this thread, it's totally subjective and old and banned peopleI took the USMLE today and the COMLEX a week ago.
I hereby proclaim that the USMLE is easier than the COMLEX.
Discuss.