Usuhs

[NoMoreAMCAS]

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I believe there was a Navy O-6 that interviewed this year. Not sure of the age, but she must be older than you.

As far as the demotion, you'd still get to keep your current base-pay all the way through USUHS. And i believe you get a half year of credit towards the following rank for each year that you have served as an officer. So 12 years of active duty time should equate to 6 years of service when you graduate USUHS, seemingly giving you O-4 immediately.

I could be wrong about the instant promotion, that's just my understanding of how prior service works. I'm definitely right about the pay though, you would keep that throughout your time at USUHS.

 

[DrMetal]

I currently have close to 12 years AD as an Officer in the Navy. I am guessing that the age requirements are waiverable like everything else in the military. Does anyone have a gauge as to how waiverable? I will be close to 36 or so after I finish my aviation DH tour (and they won't let me out of that early). So if I was accepted would be 37 by start date. Has anyone been accepted that old?

Another issue would be losing rank. I LOVE the military but the biggest pill to swallow doing this would be becoming an O-1 again. Has there been any O-4/5's that have gone this route and adjusted well?

There's actually a post DH pilot in the class ahead of me, and a near DH (junior O-4) pilot in my own class. So, yes, it can be done, plent of older people here, they grant the age waiver pretty liberally. As long as you're medically qualified (which I'm sure you are if you can pass a flight physical), then you should be good to go. Just apply early in the cycle to optimize your chances of getting in.

Pay, you'd be getting O-1 >12 as your Base Pay, then you'll have a 'SavePay' line on your LES which would equalize you to O-4 > 12. But you BAH would be O-1 for Bethesda. So you only really take a $400-$500 hit, coming in from AD 13XX. It's a significant hit, but probably not as bad as you thought.

 

[dwb8p]

Adding to what DrMetal said, I think the oldest student in our class (2013) is 39. He's army prior enlisted. So 36 should be no problem.

 

[DrMetal]

I believe there was a Navy O-6 that interviewed this year.

Really, from what community? (Please say surface. Have always wanted to call an O-6 SWO "Jim", or "Kate" )

 

[farva133]

Thanks for all of the info. It is definitely very encouraging. I was figuring that I would have to wait until retirement to attempt school. At 12 years be hard to pass up that retirement.

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

Thanks for all of the info. It is definitely very encouraging. I was figuring that I would have to wait until retirement to attempt school. At 12 years be hard to pass up that retirement.

Yeah it would be great for you. By the time you finished residency and your 7 year pay-back, you'd be able to tack those 4 years from USUHS onto your active duty years and be pretty close to getting that full 30 years of retirement credit.

 

[backrow]

I was just looking at the list of hospitals we were given at the interview which we could rotate at 3rd and 4th years...am I ******ed and just missing Balboa or is it not on there and it is not an option for USUHS people?

It's an option. Not sure of the list you have, but it is definitely open. Might check under the official name NMC San Diego if you didn't check that one as well.

 

[ruiner]

It's an option. Not sure of the list you have, but it is definitely open. Might check under the official name NMC San Diego if you didn't check that one as well.

Just some list they gave out on interview day but for all I can remember it might have (and obviously must have been) just some of the possibilities. San Diego/Balboa is the goal, I go back and forth almost daily on doing USUHS or HPSP and which I think will get me there.

 

[CorPulmonale]

.

 

[TheGoose]

nvm

 

[JMH3]

I just got into USUHS, Navy. I am very excited! I was wondering if anyone had suggestions about housing?
Thanks!

 

[silverhorse84]

I just got into USUHS, Navy. I am very excited! I was wondering if anyone had suggestions about housing?
Thanks!

For what it's worth, there's quite a few of my classmates that are moving into downtown Bethesda - it's not much more expensive than other apartments outside Bethesda and the convenience is worth it (living close to school, living walking distance from popular hangouts and walking distance to a good metro station). There's also townhouses in downtown Bethesda that are cheaper to live in than apartments if you don't mind multiple roommates.
You can probably find roommates/housing through facebook. I remember last year my class had a lot of discussions in our group about housing. I'm sure there's a USUHS c/o '14 group already.

 

[dru2002]

I'm sure there's a USUHS c/o '14 group already.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=157588585981&ref=ts

 

[LiquidAnger]

Question. I know it is probably answered within the thread somewhere, and I will go through all 40+ pages (unless I get an answer here...)

I intend to go to USUHS... I was intending a civilian school, but I just recently had a change of heart. If I get in...

I want to do trauma surgery. Now... Can I do this as Air Force? Dad was AF and I would like to go AF. I hear that it is a little more... difficult... to go the way you want to go if you choose AF. Is Army REALLY that much easier to move around in? I don't care much about promotions (I mean, it would be nice, but I can live without it, as I won't be making this a career) but I DO care about not being able to do surgery.

Also, I read a line above that read something like "Is your wife resilient enough to be a single mom for 7 years and a deployment". Is USUHS really so involved that you won't be home to be a parent? I intend to have children in the next 5 or so years. One of the biggest reasons I decided USUHS would be a good choice is because I have heard that it is family-friendly (minus the deployment part).

I really would love the military life, having seen it in my childhood. But there ARE some dealbreakers, obviously. Thanks for the information 🙂

 

[DrMetal]

I want to do trauma surgery. Now... Can I do this as Air Force? Dad was AF and I would like to go AF. I hear that it is a little more... difficult... to go the way you want to go if you choose AF. Is Army REALLY that much easier to move around in? I don't care much about promotions (I mean, it would be nice, but I can live without it, as I won't be making this a career) but I DO care about not being able to do surgery.

First, how do you know you wanna be a trauma surgeon? Is that based on some real experience and research or on too many episodes of 'ER'?? (Study 'Scrubs' instead, it's more accurate).

Second, if you really wanna do trauma surgery, you might re-think joining the military, at least as an active duty (aka full-time) member. In my discussions with surgeons, the trauma type are the least happy, b/c they don't see much trauma. (There's only one military Level 1, in San Antonio TX, BAMC). If you really wanna do trauma, go Army and try to get your training done there, and to stay stationed there for 20 yrs!

So again, military trauma surgeons aren't too happy when they're home (CONUS), per usual low case volume. Now, if they deploy, they may or may not do a lot of interesting trauma, just depends on when/where you land. No guarantees. In this sense, it might be better to go the civilian route thru med school/training, then come into the military as a reservist trauma surgeon. You could certainly deploy, get your share of wartime trauma, then come home to your civilian practice.

Is USUHS really so involved that you won't be home to be a parent?

No . . .Medicine is so involved that you won't be home (as much as you'd like) to be a parent. Medical education/training is a damn long haul, especially if you're surgically-bent. Make sure you know what you're getting yourself into 🙂.

[Yes, USUHS is very family-friendly. But that still doesn't take away from the fact that you'll be in medical school, and thus very busy, away from home quite often.]

 

[dwb8p]

I want to do trauma surgery. Now... Can I do this as Air Force?

Yes

Is Army REALLY that much easier to move around in?

Yes, it really is. Your chances of completing a general surgery residency straight out of medical school are much higher in the army than in the air force. The air force (like the navy, but not as bad as the navy) has a much higher rate of pulling interns out of residency to complete GMO / flight surgery tours and delaying them from completing residency. This will not end any time soon. The air force surgeon general spoke about a month ago at USUHS and confirmed this. Nearly everyone in the army trains straight through residency after medical school. This is because the army now pulls primarily board-certified primary care docs to fill its billets traditionally given to GMOs.

I cannot comment as to which service would give you a better chance at completing a trauma surgery fellowship; however I would say that you should count on NOT being able to train straight through to fellowship from residency. Expect to serve at least 3 years as a general surgeon with at least one deployment before getting this opportunity.

I don't care much about promotions (I mean, it would be nice, but I can live without it, as I won't be making this a career) but I DO care about not being able to do surgery.

Keep in mind that becoming a trauma surgeon in the military by starting out at USUHS will obligate you to at least 14 years in the military after medical school. 5yr residency + 2yr fellowship + 7yr payback. Bottom line-- the military WILL be made into at least a semi-career for you, and getting promoted WILL matter to you because it dictates much of your pay.

Also, I read a line above that read something like "Is your wife resilient enough to be a single mom for 7 years and a deployment". Is USUHS really so involved that you won't be home to be a parent? I intend to have children in the next 5 or so years. One of the biggest reasons I decided USUHS would be a good choice is because I have heard that it is family-friendly (minus the deployment part).

As a single male in my early twenties I can't speak personally on this, but there are definitely many people in my first year class at USUHS who had kids before starting or had kids during school and seem to be doing quite fine. USUHS is probably the most family-friendly medical school you will find based on the abnormally high number of parent-students and financial/healthcare entitlements. Of course raising a family after medical school during residency and deployments will of course be stressful, but you will make it work if it is important to you.

 

[LiquidAnger]

Through personal experience and scrubbing into several surgeries. I know for a fact that I want to do surgery, and trauma is the most appealing. I don't watch ER. I don't watch Scrubs. I just know what I want to do. 🙂 Just thought I'd clear that up.

Thanks for all the helpful information. 14 years seems like a long while. Seems like if I went that route, I may as well just retire in there. I think that this is what I am going to do. I don't want to turn this into a HPSP vs usuhs thing, but I may look into the HPSP as well. I want to get school paid for, start a family, and serve my country. I am thinking that regardless of the cons, USUHS will be the only way for me to start a family unless I want to begin in my 30s, which in my opinion, is too old for a first child (for me). Decisions, decisions.

Also, I heard the... residency? or fellowship? I can't remember which one... doesn't count toward your 7 years. You confirmed it in the above. Do you still get paid as an officer? An O-3? And if so, you can progress in rank, correct?

dw, are you making the military a career? What helped you decide USUHS was right for you?

 

[dwb8p]

Also, I heard the... residency? or fellowship? I can't remember which one... doesn't count toward your 7 years. You confirmed it in the above. Do you still get paid as an officer? An O-3? And if so, you can progress in rank, correct?

Right, neither residency nor fellowship count as payback. In fact, they actually carry 1:1 years in service obligation by themselves; however this obligation is paid back concurrently with your 7yr USUHS commitment. Basically, unless you do more than 7 yrs of GME (multiple residencies, fellowships, etc) then you won't owe anymore than 7 yrs outside of training. However, if you do HPSP (4yr obligation) instead of USUHS then do 7 yrs of training, your GME obligation will then override your HPSP obligation and you will still owe the military 7 yrs outside of training. make sense?

Yes, you get paid as an active duty officer (O1) while in school, an O3 when you graduate, and get promoted about every 6 years after that. Your pay increases significantly after completing residency. Most military attendings make somewhere around 150k regardless of specialty. Don't expect to make much more than 200k.

dw, are you making the military a career? What helped you decide USUHS was right for you?

ROTC + USUHS = me in the Army for at least 14 years, so yes I will most likely stick it out for 20. Essentially it came down to me realizing I was probably going to make a career of the military and USUHS provides the best platform from which to start.

 

[LiquidAnger]

Thanks a ton. You have really helped clear up a few things. I still think I will be applying for USUHS. One other question though. Do fellowship and residency, though not counted for payback, still count toward 20 for retirement? It would be a shame to spend all that time in the military and not retire, I think. As it stands right now, it looks like if I made a career out of this, I could retire around my late 40s. I was reading in another thread that I could be paying off loans for 30 years. I don't think that is a route that appeals to me. We shall see though. Thanks for your help 🙂

 

[SirGecko]

Thanks a ton. You have really helped clear up a few things. I still think I will be applying for USUHS. One other question though. Do fellowship and residency, though not counted for payback, still count toward 20 for retirement? It would be a shame to spend all that time in the military and not retire, I think. As it stands right now, it looks like if I made a career out of this, I could retire around my late 40s. I was reading in another thread that I could be paying off loans for 30 years. I don't think that is a route that appeals to me. We shall see though. Thanks for your help 🙂

Yes they do. Even time at USUHS counts once you hit 20 without it. (you go from 20 years to 24 years) I know it has been repeated over and over again but I would really try to make sure your aversion to loans isn't informing this decision too much. Remember money is rarely a good motivator for going med corps vice civilian medicine.

 

[LiquidAnger]

Money isn't the main motivator, though I would be lying if I said it wasn't there in the back of my mind. The main motivator is that I don't think I can start a family outside of the military until I am in my thirties or so. Financially, I don't see a way to do it. I have always wanted to serve my country, so that is another motivator. The experience, structure, and leadership I will gain via the military is invaluable. It seems to be the best option all around, honestly.

 

[dwb8p]

Money isn't the main motivator, though I would be lying if I said it wasn't there in the back of my mind. The main motivator is that I don't think I can start a family outside of the military until I am in my thirties or so. Financially, I don't see a way to do it. I have always wanted to serve my country, so that is another motivator. The experience, structure, and leadership I will gain via the military is invaluable. It seems to be the best option all around, honestly.

There is nothing wrong with money being a factor in the decision. Anyone who does HPSP or USUHS does so in part because of the money; otherwise why wouldn't they just take out loans and join the military without any sort of loan repayment? The opportunities that USUHS affords are unique and great, but that only goes so far when you look at the bottom $$$$ line. USUHS folks get about double the pay while in med school, but HPSP folks (with their shorter service obligations) are eligible for the hefty (40k+/yr) retention bonuses 3 years earlier in their career; so HPSP vs USUHS pretty much evens out financially down the road, but you definitely cannot beat the quality of life that USUHS affords during those first four years.

 

[DrMetal]

Through personal experience and scrubbing into several surgeries. I know for a fact that I want to do surgery, and trauma is the most appealing. I don't watch ER. I don't watch Scrubs. I just know what I want to do. 🙂 Just thought I'd clear that up.

Ok, well good, you've done some real homework about it.

So if you're sure that you wanna do trauma, I'd advise you to join the Army (whether you go USUHS or HPSP). And this coming from a Navy guy, so I don't have any kind of bias. . . .Again, reasons are that the Army has the only Level 1 MTF BAMC for trauma training and practice; and as an Army medical officer, you'll probably have first dibs on ground-pounding deployments that'll have a significant amount of trauma.

 

[LiquidAnger]

Thank you guys for the information. I think I have decided to do USUHS (provided I get in) and make a career out of the military. 20 years is a long time, but being in your 40s when you retire isn't a bad deal. USUHS seems to be better for me than HPSP in the end. I will research everything more, of course (which is what I am doing here 🙂 ) and make a decision as things get a little closer.

Yeah. I have done my homework. I wanted to do cardiovascular surgery, but every cardiovascular surgeon I know says that the number of stints being put in make the surgery volume a lot less. Some of them are even learning how to put in stints to make up for the lack of volume. I then decided to do trauma. I may do general surgery (or find a specialty I really enjoy later other than trauma), but I really believe that trauma is where I would be the most content. I also think I will go army. Thank you for the suggestion. 🙂

Sorry for the lack of knowledge, but what is Level 1 MTF BAMC? MTF is Military Treatment Facility, correct?

Deployments are and will remain pretty much mandatory, correct? Does anyone know how long each deployment is, and how many are expected over a 20 year period?

Thank you guys so much for taking the time to answer my questions.

 

[DrMetal]

Sorry for the lack of knowledge, but what is Level 1 MTF BAMC? MTF is Military Treatment Facility, correct?

'Level 1' meaning a Level 1 Trauma center . . .the type of place that has close ties to a nice local knife & gun club, where you get a good volume of GSWs, stabbings, car accidents, etc. Most metro cities have 1 or more hospitals designated as Level 1's. Military has only one: Brook Army Medical Center in San Antonio. Now I think it's called SAAMC http://www.sammc.amedd.army.mil/

Deployments are and will remain pretty much mandatory, correct? Does anyone know how long each deployment is, and how many are expected over a 20 year period?

Whoa now. If I had that kind of crystal ball, would be betting on the NBA Playoffs and a Lakers repeat.

Deployments can range from 6 to 15 months. The longer ones usually have some sort of break period, where you can come home for 2 weeks (sometimes!). When, where to, and how often you deploy all depends on the latest mess in the world. If you were a fully-trained trauma surgeon joining now, I could almost guarantee that you'd go to Afghanistan or Iraq sometime in the next 2 years. But in 10 years, who knows. There's a lot of uncertainty in military life, and you have to be ok with that.

 

[LiquidAnger]

Thanks for the reply and the clarification. This really helps me face the facts and decide.

 

[mslall]

.

 

[mslall]

sorry for the bump, I do realize this is 3 months late, but why do you all keep pushing all the weirdos to the army.

And let's be real. If every incoming student at USUHS who wanted to be a trauma surgeon actually still wanted to become a trauma surgeon come match time 3.5 years later I'm fairly certain all the medical corps in all services would be about 85% trauma surgeons and/or ER docs.

And let's not forget lifestyle.....if you're considering USUHS as a lifestyle thing and considering surgery at all....you're crazy. "Surgery" and "lifestyle" don't go in the same sentence unless "bad," "poor," or "****ty" comes before "lifestyle"

 

[DrMetal]

but why do you all keep pushing all the weirdos to the army.

B/c better (for me) that they be in your Army than my Navy

 

[Red Dragon]

Hello,
A couple questions for those in the know on here.

1. I have read through this thread concerning USUHS and have not seen anything regarding going through and converting over to Reserve status in any way. Is it possible to "pay back" any of your incurred active duty time in Reserve status after attending USUHS, or must the individual complete all of the required pay back time on AD and then search for Reserve slot if they so desire?

2. Curiosity question. A little off topic, but are there any great coffee shops out there near the school that students tend to study/chill out at? I went to school in the Northwest where there is a trend for a lot more people do their studying in cafe's vs. libraries these days. Not sure if that is something the east coasters do as well?

 

[backrow]

1. I have read through this thread concerning USUHS and have not seen anything regarding going through and converting over to Reserve status in any way. Is it possible to "pay back" any of your incurred active duty time in Reserve status after attending USUHS, or must the individual complete all of the required pay back time on AD and then search for Reserve slot if they so desire?

No, you cannot go reserves for payback.

Why in the world would the military agree to that? Yes, you can transfer to the reserves after payback if you so desire, plenty of positions for that, but not sure I would recommend it.

If you're going to stay in, stay in, there are too many problems with trying to be in a practice and getting recalled to active duty for deployment for the Reserves to be a viable option for many physicians. Plus the retirement for a Reserve Retirement, in my eyes, is not worth it.

 

[SirGecko]

2. Curiosity question. A little off topic, but are there any great coffee shops out there near the school that students tend to study/chill out at? I went to school in the Northwest where there is a trend for a lot more people do their studying in cafe's vs. libraries these days. Not sure if that is something the east coasters do as well?

Did you really just ask if there are coffee shops in Bethesda? I live in downtown Bethesda and I am on top of a Caribou Coffee and am within walking distance of at least two Starbucks. No worries mate, if you want to study in a coffee shop you certainly can. (I study a lot a Caribou)

 

[Legion1]

j

 

[Gastrapathy]

Hi. I am a 27 year old Infantry Officer in the US Army, just getting back from a deployment to Afghanistan. I have decided that I would like to complete my career in the Army as a doctor, specifically a psychiatrist. I have some questions about gaining admissions to USUHS:

1) How much does the admissions committee look at branch specific qualifications? Specifically, I know that the Army is a big fan of command time and a Ranger tab. Since I would definitely be going back to the Army, would this make me a significantly more attractive candidate?

Your prior service is slightly beneficial. Your specific job is irrelevant.


2) I have spoken with admissions and read a great deal on here about the need to apply early. Is there any way to know where the real cut-off actually is? That is, do I have a SIGNIFICANTLY better shot at selection if I apply in August vs October or does it really take an application by July to be truly competitive? I ask this as I have some significant decisions to make within my current career that will effect when I can complete my final prerequisites and take the MCATs.
If you want to get into med school, you absolutely must apply early. Its a huge advantage. July 1st. Plus, let go of the USUHS or bust thing, apply broadly

My specific reason for asking is that I have the opportunity to complete Ranger school this spring, something I want personally and professionally. However, it will likely delay my ability to apply from mid-summer till Sept/Oct because of the MCATs. Because of my timeline, this is the choice no matter how I cut it. I am simply trying to gain as much information possible. If my chances are significantly higher when applying in June/July, then Ranger school will just have to wait.

3) Does the admissions committee seem to be a bigger fan of EMT or shadow experiance?
So do you want to be a psychiatrist or a Ranger? Why should the Army send you through Ranger school to be a shrink? EMT seems to be all the vogue but I only value it if you actually work as one for a while. If your app says you want to be a shrink, you should shadow one.
Thanks in advance for the info.

see above

 

[SirGecko]

Gastrapathy had some pretty good answers. Read those. I just want to add a couple comments:

2) I have spoken with admissions and read a great deal on here about the need to apply early. Is there any way to know where the real cut-off actually is? That is, do I have a SIGNIFICANTLY better shot at selection if I apply in August vs October or does it really take an application by July to be truly competitive? I ask this as I have some significant decisions to make within my current career that will effect when I can complete my final prerequisites and take the MCAT.

It cannot be stressed enough how important applying early is. July. You want your app in during the month of July. Can you get in if you submit your application in August or September? Sure but you will probably spend a lot of time on the waitlist. (October is really really late) But you want to get it submitted in July. You want to be interviewing in October if you can.

Once again apply early. It cannot be stressed enough.

3) Does the admissions committee seem to be a bigger fan of EMT or shadow experience?

Thanks in advance for the info.

You need shadowing experience. You don't need EMT experience. If you are already an EMT, great! Don't go through the training just to have something to put on your application. (I agree with Gastrapathy about it only being worthwhile if you worked as an EMT) You have to shadow or at least have some sort of volunteer experience that involves you interacting with and observing doctors to be competitive for medical school. This is a much more efficient use of your time if you are just looking for clinical experience for your application.

 

[Legion1]

Thank you for your quick and informative responces, I would appriciate anyone else who has anything of value to add.

One question though: is applying in June with an MCAT date for August an August or June application? Same with class completion. I should complete Organic Chem in late July-does that mean that my application is only reviewed at that time or is it reviewed when I initially submit in June?

Thanks.

LT Cooper

 

[pgg]

Thank you for your quick and informative responces, I would appriciate anyone else who has anything of value to add.

One question though: is applying in June with an MCAT date for August an August or June application? Same with class completion. I should complete Organic Chem in late July-does that mean that my application is only reviewed at that time or is it reviewed when I initially submit in June?

No one's going to send out an interview invite until they see your MCAT score. If you take the exam in August, your score should be out in September. I guess you could still land an October interview if the stars align.

Most traditional applicants take ochem (and other MCAT-relevant prereqs) during their sophomore year of college, and take the MCAT during their junior year (usually spring). What you're doing is the equivalent of them taking the exam fall of their senior year which has historically been a disadvantage.

Taking the exam before you're done taking the 2nd sem of ochem carries its own risks though. You should be doing lots of practice MCAT exams as part of your preparation, so you should have a fairly good idea of where you'll score. If you're putting up good numbers, it might be worth moving up your MCAT test date so the admissions committee has everything early.

 

[dwb8p]

It sounds like you should take another year to finish your prereqs and ensure a good MCAT score before rushing into things. That would also give you time to get your tab.

 

[Legion1]

j

 

[pgg]

3.15 overall GPA, double major in philosophy and religion way back in '06
3.92 Sciences, all of which have been taken since then
I have not yet officially taken the MCATs, but I have been scoring between 31 and 33 on practice tests consistenly. As of 1 July, I will have only Organic Chem II left to take.

3.15 gpa is a problem for most US allopathic schools. If you put up a 3.92 on pchem/ochem/bio/physics/math after you finished your degree, then that will help, but if your cumulative gpa is 3.15 even after that run of As in hard science classes then your undergrad gpa must be in the 2.xx range, which is a red flag. You're going to need to nail the MCAT, and I don't think 31-33 really meets the 'nailed it' threshold. But you still have lots of time to prep for the MCAT so you can probably get 35+ by the time you take it.

I know that USUHS is what I want and if waiting an extra year is the right awnser, then that is what I will do. But the thought of putting this off for yet another year worries me: I will be over 30 (hopefully waivered) and I will miss out on several other career alternatives if I am not accepted-certainly somethign to consider at this point in my life.

Again, any further feedback/recommendations would be great.

You might as well go ahead and apply this year. Except for the application $ and time you won't be out anything. The problem is that with your marginal undergrad gpa and so-far only OK practice MCAT scores you're going to want to maximize everything that remains in your control.

The earlier you apply the better. To do that you may wish to take the MCAT before you finish ochem 2, so your score can be available about the same time as your ochem 2 grade, so your application will be complete as early as possible.

Smoke the MCAT, get your complete application in around August, including ochem2 grade and MCAT score, and your chances at USUHS are probably good. You should also apply broadly to civilian schools.

 

[megansanny]

I am applying to medical school in May 2012 (I know, kind of far away). It is my dream to enter into the military as a doctor. I know the up's and down's, I just have a few questions about admissions:

1. I am a Chemistry/Nutrition double major at UT Austin. I have been working in a complex synthesis organic chem lab for a year that is funded by MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, I have worked as a TA, an RA, and was awarded a research fellowship with a professor emeritus during the summer after my freshman year. I have a 3.43, but still have 5 semesters of school left and have only been improving (started with a 3.0). I volunteer at a hospital here and all around the community 3 hours a week (at least). I am shadowing an ER doctor this summer, also. Currently, I am trying to find a job at a hospital. I haven't taken the MCAT yet.

What are my odds? I feel like my GPA is so low compared to the people around me at school and most pre-med students. I really want to go to USUHS but am applying to HSPS also.

2. I had asthma as a kid. i run marathons and am in really good shape (if I may say so myself). I am pretty sure I can pass any physical test thrown at me, but my medical record still says "asthmatic." I have been cleared by an allergist and haven't had issues for a while, but I know I will have to get a medical waiver. Does anyone know how med. waivers work? Are people actually able to get them?

Thanks for all the help.

 

[SDSU EB]

What are my odds?

Does anyone know how med. waivers work? Are people actually able to get them?

Well, to be perfectly honest, your GPA is not so great. HOWEVER, many med school admissions deans say that if you show continued improvement, especially in the sciences, they will take that in to consideration (no rollercoaster grades though).

And take your MCAT's then worry. Most schools use MCAT's as a standardization feature (as grades from UCSD, SDSU, and Harvard are not assigned according to the same standards). Schools look to see if your MCAT's match or are better than your grades. So if your GPA is lower than the accepting average, show the schools you know your knowledge by going above the average on the MCAT's.

Also be careful, you have great sounding extracurriculars (little bit of envy over here since my research fellowship just got denied😡), but med schools are looking for people who can manage their time well, if all the great stuff you're doing is impacting your performance in school it can be more of a liability than a boon. Also, having more is not necessarily better, especially with USUHS, they're looking for people that can stick with something (the military) for quite a few years, not switch between 10 different things when a new fancy strikes. It's not a big consideration, but look into keeping one of your extracurriculars going for a while (also great source of LOR's).

Extracurriculars do NOT make up for academic performance (something I found out a while ago for college admissions), so just keep that in mind, raise your grades a bit farther (USUHS's average is 3.5), go big on the MCAT's, and don't go overboard on the number of extracurriculars, try to show your ability to commit and stick with it... (also, profit!)

It's great that you've worked up from having asthma. And it really isn't too big of a deal with the military anymore (there are waivers for cancer patients !?!?), it's just more paperwork, not really much for an admissions denial.

Hope that helps.

 

[megansanny]

Hope that helps.

Thanks!! I realize the extracurriculars look kind of ridiculous, but I spent my freshman year trying to figure out what I wanted to do, so I did everything. And I also found that the busier I am, the better I am at time-management (weird, I know). At this point, I am just trying to bring my grades up and I hope that will be enough (and of course the MCAT).

 

[ms8171]

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[pgg]

For starters, a little background on who I am as an applicant:
Age: 22
GPA ~3.65 Science GPA ~3.86
MCAT to be taken July 6, w/ practice scores in the range of 32-36.
Graduating next semester.

Grades and scores like that should get you a spot in a US allopathic school.

1. My interest is in serving overseas. While practicing on domestic military bases is an extremely noble profession, I am allured by the opportunity to work in more hostile environments. It sounds cliche, but I want to push the border of front-line medicine. I want to get as close as I can, while still being a doctor. With that being said, with which branch am I most likely to do so? Is there an advantage conferred to USUHS students in attaining these positions?

In a word, no. USUHS may have some advantage in getting a military intern position (if that's what you want) simply because the military MUST put all USUHS grads at a military PGY-1 program. The flip side is that USUHS grads have zero chance of being deferred for internship & a near-zero chance of being deferred for residency (if that's what you want).

USUHS grads don't have any particular advantage re: staff billets. It is easier for USUHS grads to make connections within the military a little earlier but one certainly shouldn't count on that weak/nebulous "influence" to help you steer where you go and what you do.

GMOs, especially with the USMC, get as close to the front as most military doctors do, and even that typically isn't very close. There are other major drawbacks to being a GMO that are hashed out repeatedly and in detail on this forum. Joining the military to be a GMO is a bad idea, IMHO, with the possible excption of people with prior military experience who sorta know what they might be getting themselves into. One of my USUHS classmates said the only reason he went to med school was so he could be a flight surgeon - he was a prior military pilot, and it worked out for him.

As a residency trained, board eligible/certified military physician, you are NOT likely to work in a hostile environment. At least, not deliberately. There are some operational billets and GMO conversions, which are mostly filled by primary care physicians, but those guys don't really do the kind of work I think you're imagining.

If you have interest in being a front-line doctor hanging out with the special forces types, it's not going to happen. Those few spots seem to go to ex-SF guys who left SF, went to medical school and then went home to the SF, so to speak. Young straight-through HS-college-medschool guys just don't wind up doing ops with the SEALs.

2. It's been mentioned so many times in so many different ways, but I'm still not grasping the difference between the civilian route, the HSPS route and the USUHS route in terms of years of education...

The education duration is the same; allopathic residencies are ACGME accredited inside and outside the military. USUHS grads are more-or-less obligated to do an inservice residency simply because 7 years is a looooong time to take the GMO-&-out path. That may or may not limit desired options. HPSP grads have the option of doing GMO time and getting out to do a civilian residency, which may or may not be what they want. Civilians don't worry about GMO time and just go straight through.

The only difference in years of education is whether or not the military route includes a GMO delay between internship and residency.

My primary interest is Emergency Medicine or General Surgery. While I haven't had a huge exposure to other fields (and my preferences may, in fact, change), my experience in EMS has convinced me that this is the field for me. How LONG would it take me to complete my residency with each route?

Gen surg is 5 - intern + 4 yrs
ER is 3 or 4 - intern + 2 or 3 yrs depending on program, I think, with a trend toward the 4 year programs, not 100% sure about that

3. Let's say I choose USUHS and I repay my 7-years of commitment. What do those seven years entail? Will I have completed my residency?

Unless you drop/fail out of residency, or you're a screwup who chooses not to do a residency, or you have your heart set on pediatric neuroendocrinologic interventional radologic minimally invasive robotic surgery (not a real specialty 🙂) and have to GMO-&-out it to do your obscure specialty training in the civilian world, yes you'll have finished residency. Couple possible paths:

Graduate owing 7 years
year 1: internship (still owe 7 years)
year 2-3: GMO time (now owe 5 years)
year 4-7: gen surg residency (still owe 5 years)
year 8-12: staff tour (0 years left at end)

year 1: internship (still owe 7 years)
year 2-5: gen surg residency (skipped GMO tour, still owe 7 years)
year 6-12: staff tour (0 years left at end)

Yes, your 7 year USUHS commitment ends up being 16 years on active duty (surprise!). 4 @ USUHS, 5 for gen surg internship/residency, 7 for payback.

This ties into the previous question. More importantly, after my seven-year commitment, if I choose to serve in a civilian setting, will I be at a disadvantage compared to my colleagues?

Depends on a lot of factors. Skill rot in the military is a concern for a lot of us. In the end, it seems the great majority of people do just fine when they get out.

4. I am fairly certain that if I did re-enter the civilian arena, I would still want to find an affiliation through the Department of Defense, or state/regional EMS (perhaps as a medical director, or something of the sort). Could any significant advantage be conferred to me by pursuing USUHS over HPSP?

No. Nobody will care.

5. Finally, what exactly are the major differences between the branches of the military, IN TERMS of the 'type' of medicine or assignments that one might receive.

The Air Force is nearly universally hated by physicians, as it appears to have led the way when it comes to everything that is wrong with milmed.

The Army is biggest. The Navy has the Marine Corps. Navy flight surgeons (GMOs) actually fly more than Air force flight surgeons. Spending time as a GMO is more likely in the Navy than the Army. The Navy doesn't have many billets away from water, the Army does.

More importantly, I want to know that I can receive the kind of training I want (ideally, in my chosen specialty)

Aye, there's the rub.


Honest truth #1 is that the military can't offer that to you.

Honest truth #2 is that you, as a premed, really don't know what specialty you will choose right now. You might be thinking GS or EM, but odds are high you'll change your mind.

Honest truth #3 is that military residency programs vary in quality from 'quite good' to 'meh' to 'why is this place still open?' ... accepting a HPSP or USUHS offer is a leap of faith that the specialty you will eventually choose will be (a) available to any military applicant, (b) attainable to you when you apply, (c) of a quality comparable to civilian programs.


I don't recommend HPSP or USUHS to anyone any more, unless they have prior service and know what they're getting into, and have retirement credit that changes the $ calculus.

For people like you , I think FAP or even direct accession after residency are likely to be a far better choice if you want to serve. Total control over your training, no need to commit to service many years in advance.



Be sure to read this recent thread.

 

[ms8171]

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[MeDreams]

Please let me know if I should post elsewere as this is my first post...
I’ve always vowed to read & never post but I need some honest advice and love the honesty in this site (for the most part). I’m 30 yrs old with a good paying government career & a family of 5 (myself, husband, 2 kids and the dog) My career pays well as does my husbands, but I have always aspired to be a physician. My reasons were for the same as many others, the ability to help other which give me a sense of gratification & contribution for being able to provide such health services to others. In my opinion this is what makes life meaningful and way more about others than being about you. That being said I graduated with my undergrad in Bio back in 2003 and was commissioned into the USAF. Served in the USAF for 3yrs and transferred to the USAFR in 2006 after receiving my MBA, while taking a civil servant position with the USAF in 2006. I love the military lifestyle as it has been a great way of life for me and my family.
Ok here is the lowdown; graduated with an oGPA 2.65 undergrad, have not calculated my sGPA. Have an oGPA 3.48 MBA. Have not taken the MCAT but know that first things first if I want to be a physician I have NO chance unless I raise the GPA. I’ve enrolled in a CC to retake the core sci courses & eventually take some higher level sci courses as well as Cal 1. Husband has been so supportive as he works days like me and has the kids (2 & 5 yr old) M-Th evenings while I attend summer Chem. I appreciate/love him so much for the support!
To get my UG oGPA just to a 3.0 I have to take 12+ courses which I have to pay for out-of-pocket …no TA for retakes, do it right the first time. ( =~/ In any case if I take 7-9 course a semester I can potentially knock out the Post Bach courses in about 2.5 ~3 yrs which put me in approx the 2014 (class 2018) app process. My goal is to get into USHUS; pros/cons there, husband’s position not at all AFBs. Can keep the house if accepted at OU medical so that I don’t shake up the kids world too much with all the transitions that will take place once accepted to med school and husband keeps his current position. Bethesda would be great, earn income and eventually husband can find something, preferably government.
So the advice I am seeking is, are my goals farfetched regarding USUSH or OU Med or any allopathic school given the amount of course req to earn an eligible/competive GPA (OB/GYN is the goal) & at my age is it smarter to just finish out my 12 yrs in the Reserve and appreciate the blessings/opportunities God has already afforded to me; current joint income is ~$110K, but no gratification in the work! We have survived off 35K/yr so I know how to live on a strict budget as paying for post bach classes are showing me. Also would you all recommend a different way in how I am attempting to raise my GPA … currently I have completed 2 courses, neither of which I took previously (an additional humanities & Psych … got As in both). Currently enrolled in Gen Chem and its feeling like school again! Lastly did I read correctly that I will retain my Capt pay if accepted to USUSH but will lose the rank? I can live with that! All comments warranted, but would prefer the honest ones regarding the feasibility in what I am trying to achieve! Thanks!

 

[pgg]

MeDreams -

"Is going to medical school worth it" is a common question on SDN and I think it's the hardest to answer because it's so intensely personal. Lots of nontraditionals have made satisfying careers out of medicine after a later start. My brother started med school at age 37, is now a resident at age 44, and is glad he did it.

I know USUHS has an age limit on admissions, don't remember exactly what it is but if you're 30 now and not applying for a few years yet, it may be a problem.

I'd think long and hard about

• Re-hitching yourself to the Air Force. All of military medicine has some issues, but the AF seems to be leading the charge on every initiative that is wrong with milmed.
• Committing yourself to military GME in the 2020s by financing medical school with HPSP or USUHS - see the end of my post in this thread (two above yours).

Beyond that I don't know what to tell you. You seem to have a realistic grasp of your application weaknesses, with a reasonable plan to address them ... and some acknowledgement of the price you'd pay to go to medical school. Only you can really decide if this is what you want to do with your life.

 

[MeDreams]

Thanks pgg,

I wasn't aware that the AF carried a bad rap for how the docs practice! Interesting info. As far as "rehitching", I have no issues with that as I would like to receive a full active duty retirement. I trust that I could handle anything that comes with the route I take if accepted to ANY school. I just have to be real with myself to determine if I can go through all i have to go through to get accepted, you know. Life isnt terrible for me ... its actually quite good, just missing the gratification in the career ... I dont mean to sound unappreciative b/c i know some folk would just be happy to have "ANY" job ... I just feel like my calling was to pursue medicine, and I dont think i'm suppose to ignore it!

 

[Gastrapathy]

Assuming USUHS remains open, your grades will be a significant barrier. You're going to have to do a lot of work to bring up your GPA with no guarantee that it will get you anywhere.

I totally agree with everything pgg wrote.