VA Mental Health Provider Venting / Problem-solving / Peer Support Thread

[texanpsychdoc]

I wonder if it's possible to negotiate something like this post-hire...

If it's already being discussed or in the process of being approved by your VA, then you would likely benefit from it as it would apply to all existing and incoming psychologists for that location.

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[Psychologist1234]

It was negotiated at the dept level. Either your chief got it approved or they didn't.

I'm suddenly very upset at my chief...

 

[Sanman]

Oh...well...I was never offered a retention bonus, so we are good on that end

They are renewed on a year-to-year basis. Ours will probably expire at the end of the year. SSR will be staying going forward.

 

[Psychologist1234]

If it's already being discussed or in the process of being approved by your VA, then you would likely benefit from it as it would apply to all existing and incoming psychologists for that location.

Good to know - thank you. I haven't heard anything at my location, but something I'll bring up at our next meeting.

 

[Sanman]

I'm suddenly very upset at my chief...

As you should be.

 

[cara susanna]

Caring depends on your personal situation. EDRP and, I believe, retention bonuses are tied to getting a full successful review. If you fall under the 80% mark, then you have a problem with keeping some of the money they are throwing at us. Beyond that RVUs don't matter.

That would just be fully successful, though, right? Not exceeds expectations? I have always been considered fully successful even when I don't meet my RVU requirement, I just don't get any higher than that.

Edit: Wait, is a retention bonus different from the pay bump?

 

[Sanman]

That would just be fully successful, though, right? Not exceeds expectations? I have always been considered fully successful even when I don't meet my RVU requirement, I just don't get any higher than that.

Fully successful is 80% of expected RVUs, Exceeds expectations is 90% or higher. This is listed on the annual rating form. You only need fully successful to maintain EDRP or other benefits. Performance bonus is usually only exceeds if it is paid out.

EDIT: Retention bonus is basically a 1 year pay bump to retain staff. It can be applied for annually by the chief and must be approved. Different from the usual step bonus or the performance bonus. It is new since the pandemic. SSR is a permanent pay bump usually based on location and is not tied to performance at all. Even a needs improvement gets it.

 

[texanpsychdoc]

That would just be fully successful, though, right? Not exceeds expectations? I have always been considered fully successful even when I don't meet my RVU requirement, I just don't get any higher than that.

Edit: Wait, is a retention bonus different from the pay bump?

Yes - pay bumps occur at regular intervals while the bonus is something like a fringe benefit that is typically negotiated either prior to joining or, as a means to retain you and can be implemented while still employed I believe.

 

[Shiori]

We have new interns and now I feel inspired and hopeful about the future. It's terrible.

 

[summerbabe]

I was happy with the pay increase, but then I found out other facilities got MUCH more than we did. Also apparently they asked for more but were denied. Boo-urns.

It’s interesting to see how things go from here since some of the variability seems tied to specific decisions that a chief/ACOS/hospital leadership are making or not making and how effective they are at navigating bureaucracy.

I’m a fully virtual employee but even though my local VA has just approved a solid SSR in the ~40% range, they are limiting SSR to on site staff and thus blocking their own virtual employees who live in the area and their virtual employees who live in other areas that have had their own SSR approved and whose facility would allow them to receive this pay while working for a different VA so I’ll probably be staying at my base + rest of US locality unless something changes at the national level.

I know one other VA with SSR that is doing the same thing for their virtual/non-virtual staff.

I understand the rationale since you’re drawing from a limited talent pool for on-site jobs and there are definitely perks to having a virtual job and I’m super happy lots of people are getting paid more but it’s crazy that I’ll soon be a GS13, step 4 psychologist and make significantly less than a newly hired, non-licensed GS12 at texanpsychdoc’s facility.

 

[Sanman]

It’s interesting to see how things go from here since some of the variability seems tied to specific decisions that a chief/ACOS/hospital leadership are making or not making and how effective they are at navigating bureaucracy.

I’m a fully virtual employee but even though my local VA has just approved a solid SSR in the ~40% range, they are limiting SSR to on site staff and thus blocking their own virtual employees who live in the area and their virtual employees who live in other areas that have had their own SSR approved and whose facility would allow them to receive this pay while working for a different VA so I’ll probably be staying at my base + rest of US locality unless something changes at the national level.

I know one other VA with SSR that is doing the same thing for their virtual/non-virtual staff.

I understand the rationale since you’re drawing from a limited talent pool for on-site jobs and there are definitely perks to having a virtual job and I’m super happy lots of people are getting paid more but it’s crazy that I’ll soon be a GS13, step 4 psychologist and make significantly less than a newly hired, non-licensed GS12 at texanpsychdoc’s facility.

SSR of 40% is crazy. We did not even get half of that.

That is interesting and it does make sense from their perspective. I agree that it will certainly change people's motivations if you can get a 40% pay raise for coming in. I am looking at remote positions this will certainly be something to weigh in future. If this is not consistent within VAs, there may be a lot of job hopping to get into VISNs or facilities that do give the raises to their virtual folks.

 

[texanpsychdoc]

SSR of 40% is crazy. We did not even get half of that.

That is interesting and it does make sense from their perspective. I agree that it will certainly change people's motivations if you can get a 40% pay raise for coming in. I am looking at remote positions this will certainly be something to weigh in future. If this is not consistent within VAs, there may be a lot of job hopping to get into VISNs or facilities that do give the raises to their virtual folks.

Ours was 68%

 

[Sanman]

Ours was 68%

Damn. What Step are you (if you don't mind sharing)?

 

[WisNeuro]

The SSR stuff is encouraging, but still doesn't make me want to go back in even the slightest sense after tasting the private practice lifestyle.

 

[texanpsychdoc]

Damn. What Step are you (if you don't mind sharing)?

I am a GS-12 step 1. My boss already submitted my paperwork for my GS-13 step 1 promotion which will take effect 08/01.

 

[Sanman]

I am a GS-12 step 1. My boss already submitted my paperwork for my GS-13 step 1 promotion which will take effect 08/01.

Damn! You are making not that much less than me (without retention bonus) and I am GS13 step 7.

 

[Sanman]

The SSR stuff is encouraging, but still doesn't make me want to go back in even the slightest sense after tasting the private practice lifestyle.

It really does not matter if you make more than $183,500 since we are all subject to the pay cap.

 

[texanpsychdoc]

Damn! You are making not that much less than me (without retention bonus) and I am GS13 step 7.

Yeah, I figured my salary is def. higher than a lot of other GS-12/13 step 1. I also work from home 4-5 days out of the week (I don't have a written form with HR allowing me to do this, it was a handshake agreement with my boss). By doing this, it allows me to see folks in my private practice when I end my tour at the VA, so I see about 11-12 patients in my PP a week and net about $2K a week from that, so I make a pretty good living right now in addition to my VA pay.

 

[cara susanna]

Ours was like 9%. I just looked and it was SSR. I've never had a retention bonus so I won't miss it and can keep not worrying about RVUs, lol.

 

[Sanman]

Ours was like 9%. I just looked and it was SSR. I've never had a retention bonus so I won't miss it and can keep not worrying about RVUs, lol.

At 9%, I would not be motivated to do anything but the minimum given what others have said. If your chief wants you to work harder, tell them to write a better justification for SSR.

 

[WisNeuro]

It really does not matter if you make more than $183,500 since we are all subject to the pay cap.

Ah, yeah, I've already surpassed the pay cap this year.

 

[texanpsychdoc]

I had a revelation yesterday as I was presenting my panel peer review presentation to a committee so I can retain my hospital privileges (evidently we all have to do this every 2 years, and new folks do it within their first year) - I literally read from a 17-page long power point with very minimal information...they then tell me my results at the end of the day saying I was evaluated to meet as well as exceeded expectations in various domains. I was like "well....now I know exactly how less I can do to get away with it."

 

[Sanman]

Ah, yeah, I've already surpassed the pay cap this year.

As I suspected. However, jumping my salary to the pay cap this year means a slight delay in my PP plans. Given what others are citing as far as SSR, I will not be long for this job if I am only getting SSR.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

They finally decided to try and stop the hemorrhaging of providers?

not here. we got the bare minimum lowball figure of a whopping 3% raise.

A salary survey of local providers showed that they make on avg 20% more than the same providers at VA. There was a proposed range of 3 - 18% sent to a committee (I suppose) who chose 3%.

Waving very tiny American flag in 'triumph.'

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

The VA I work for is in a higher CoL area (but not ridiculous), but the biggest factor is the SSR pay. Basically, they remove the locality pay portion and calculate a % from your base (they calculated 68% for us) and then add that back onto your base. So, as long as you stay there, your pay will adjust accordingly with that rate. For example, a GS-12 step 1 gets $119,446, a GS-13 step 1 gets $142,038, a GS-14 step 1 gets $167,845, a GS-15 step 1 gets $197,430. They cap us out at $212,100.

68%????????????????

Holy balls

 

[texanpsychdoc]

68%????????????????

Holy balls

Goes to show how bad we are at attracting and retaining providers here.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

They think by throwing tons of money at the problem that it will stop people from leaving - my suspicion is that it will temporarily keep folks onboard until they realize that the systemic BS that is the root cause(s) may be too great to stay on board. For now, anytime crap happens, I will just silently chant to myself "remember, $142K" over and over again until I can calm down....it's kind of like mental imagery exercises but with money

I hear ya but I'm a GS-13 Step 10.

If they offered me $212,100 I'd shut the hell up for a LONG time, lol.

Right now I'm just making a bit over 131K

 

[WisNeuro]

not here. we got the bare minimum lowball figure of a whopping 3% raise.

A salary survey of local providers showed that they make on avg 20% more than the same providers at VA. There was a proposed range of 3 - 18% sent to a committee (I suppose) who chose 3%.

Waving very tiny American flag in 'triumph.'

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

They treated everyone like crap during the pandemic. Tried to force providers back into the office in 2021 and started yelling about RVUs. A whole lot of people quit for remote jobs and now they are throwing money at us to stop the bleeding.

Throwing pennies at me and those bastards sting.

 

[WisNeuro]

Throwing pennies at me and those bastards sting.

They ain't making it rain, they making it hail!

 

[texanpsychdoc]

I hear ya but I'm a GS-13 Step 10.

If they offered me $212,100 I'd shut the hell up for a LONG time, lol.

Right now I'm just making a bit over 131K

That sucks....here I am newly licensed in 2021 and rolling in the big bucks.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

They ain't making it rain, they making it hail!

I think a LOT of psychologists are gonna be a-dustin off their USA Jobs logins and searching for a doubling of their salaries for the same position at another VA.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

That sucks....here I am newly licensed in 2021 and rolling in the big bucks.

Naw, man...you deserve it!

 

[summerbabe]

not here. we got the bare minimum lowball figure of a whopping 3% raise.

A salary survey of local providers showed that they make on avg 20% more than the same providers at VA. There was a proposed range of 3 - 18% sent to a committee (I suppose) who chose 3%.

Waving very tiny American flag in 'triumph.'

Below inflation is just insulting.

Does anybody know if SSR increases are coming from the facility's general operating budget or is it being covered by VACO/VISN/national?

If the former, I can see more justification for facilities that are consistently in the red and experiencing OK retention but if it's the latter.....damn.

 

[cara susanna]

Anyone else ever in the position of approving your own consult? This image always crosses my mind whenever I do.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

Anyone else ever in the position of approving your own consult? This image always crosses my mind whenever I do.

Mandatory VA uniform should include...

white and red face paint
red rubber ball nose attachment
oversized orange wig
massively oversized pants/shoes
bicycle ringer
hand horn
fake flower badge that squirts water

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

I had a revelation yesterday as I was presenting my panel peer review presentation to a committee so I can retain my hospital privileges (evidently we all have to do this every 2 years, and new folks do it within their first year) - I literally read from a 17-page long power point with very minimal information...they then tell me my results at the end of the day saying I was evaluated to meet as well as exceeded expectations in various domains. I was like "well....now I know exactly how less I can do to get away with it."

was that 212K your site tops out at for a GS-13 Step 10 or a GS-15?

 

[Sanman]

was that 212K your site tops out at for a GS-13 Step 10 or a GS-15?

I think he said GS-15, but I don't think they can make that anyway until they raise the federal pay cap.

In other news, VA psychologists around the country (but not in Houston) randomly started protesting for more money. SES executives cannot figure out the reason....

 

[texanpsychdoc]

was that 212K your site tops out at for a GS-13 Step 10 or a GS-15?

So, if you were a GS-14 or 15, you would cap out at that rate.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

So, if you were a GS-14 or 15, you would cap out at that rate.

Okay, that makes sense.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I would say that $212k for a VA position would not be a bad gig. Even $187k as a consistent offer would probably get a good number more folks to apply. Psychologists would also then be making a bit closer to what their physician colleagues do (but without the swanky annual bonuses). Although with that would likely come increased productivity pressures.

 

[texanpsychdoc]

I found out that the AMC I am on faculty provides bonuses to our physician counterparts when they bump up in professorship level. So, psychologists who hold a joint appointment with our VA and the AMC who get bumped up from assistant to associate level don't get a financial bump in pay, but evidently our physician counterparts do.

 

[cara susanna]

Me searching my desktop for that CPRS pop up that I have to click "yes" to right away or else the program will close

 

[Sanman]

I found out that the AMC I am on faculty provides bonuses to our physician counterparts when they bump up in professorship level. So, psychologists who hold a joint appointment with our VA and the AMC who get bumped up from assistant to associate level don't get a financial bump in pay, but evidently our physician counterparts do.

Another reason not to do the extra work.

 

[Psychwomen]

Ours was 68%

Ours was 65%. I'm at a VA in CA. Just got my GS13 step 4 increase, $153,450. Now I can actually afford to live in Cali!

 

[texanpsychdoc]

Ours was 65%. I'm at a VA in CA. Just got my GS13 step 4 increase, $153,450. Now I can actually afford to live in Cali!

I can't believe we in Houston got the rate we did compared to yours in California. I am making $142,038 as a GS-13 step 1 (in a couple of weeks).

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I can't believe we in Houston got the rate we did compared to yours in California. I am making $142,038 as a GS-13 step 1 (in a couple of weeks).

My understanding with Houston is that Medical Center and NASA (and probably oil money jobs) contribute to the high locality adjustment.

 

[texanpsychdoc]

My understanding with Houston is that Medical Center and NASA (and probably oil money jobs) contribute to the high locality adjustment.

We don't have a locality adjustment, we received SSR pay instead of a locality adjustment. The rate was calculated because we were losing a lot of folks who were opting to work with competing hospital systems in TMC as well as private practice. By my count, we are now probably the highest paying organization in the TMC area that I know of, especially for early and mid-career psychologists. For example, Memorial Herman tops out in the $120s from the job postings that I've seen. Heck, The Harris Center also pays pretty well but still lower than what psychologists are getting at the Houston VA. Houston Methodist posted a new opening that tops out at $93K.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

We don't have a locality adjustment, we received SSR pay instead of a locality adjustment. The rate was calculated because we were losing a lot of folks who were opting to work with competing hospital systems in TMC as well as private practice. By my count, we are now probably the highest paying organization in the TMC area that I know of, especially for early and mid-career psychologists. For example, Memorial Herman tops out in the $120s from the job postings that I've seen. Heck, The Harris Center also pays pretty well but still lower than what psychologists are getting at the Houston VA. Houston Methodist posted a new opening that tops out at $93K.

I just meant with respect to the prior locality adjustments, which I suspected may have contributed to getting a high SSR approved. But I could be wrong.

 

[texanpsychdoc]

I just meant with respect to the prior locality adjustments, which I suspected may have contributed to getting a high SSR approved. But I could be wrong.

My understanding from the rationale from our chief is that they wanted to go big or go home with trying to incentivize people. So, maybe location factored, but we received a pretty epic amount of SSR compared to those who live IMO in a higher CoL such as California.