VA Pharmacists

[Jibby321]

Hello,

I'm looking to hear from some pharmacists at the VA. I'm just looking to see if you enjoy what you do and what options a pharmacist has in the VA system. How is the pay? Benefits? Retirement plan etc. and anything else you think might be helpful to a pharmacy student who is considering VA as an option. I am a current 1PD so I have some time to decide on what I want to pursue but VA has my attention this far.

Thanks in advance!

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[TLAD123]

Not a VA pharmacist - here's what I *think* I know. Others can correct:

VA paid based on GS schedule, standing for general service, since it is a government program. The specifics can be found online. I assume there are various specialty pays to make the pay competitive (GS-11, 12, 13 (11 PharmD, 12 and 13 residency trained) are what FDA pharmacists are paid, assuming it is the same for VA, but maybe more). Twenty year retirement, as with other government programs (can probably also be searched and found online) - 50% salary after 20 years (anyone confirm? This is what it is for military). Benefits probably medical/dental/eye insurance. That's all I know and can guess. Sorry it's not much to go on.

And to be a VA pharmacist, I'm pretty sure you'll have to do a VA residency - so you should look into rotations in one or more VA's your P4 year.

 

[Jibby321]

Not a VA pharmacist - here's what I *think* I know. Others can correct:

VA paid based on GS schedule, standing for general service, since it is a government program. The specifics can be found online. I assume there are various specialty pays to make the pay competitive (GS-11, 12, 13 (11 PharmD, 12 and 13 residency trained) are what FDA pharmacists are paid, assuming it is the same for VA, but maybe more). Twenty year retirement, as with other government programs (can probably also be searched and found online) - 50% salary after 20 years (anyone confirm? This is what it is for military). Benefits probably medical/dental/eye insurance. That's all I know and can guess. Sorry it's not much to go on.

And to be a VA pharmacist, I'm pretty sure you'll have to do a VA residency - so you should look into rotations in one or more VA's your P4 year.

Thanks for the info.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Did a VA residency, this is what I learned from fellow pharmacists there about benefits.

It is GS schedule, staff pharmacist is usually GS-11. PGY-1 trained is usually GS-11/12. PGY-2 trained is usually GS-12. Management level (chief, assistant chief) are usually GS-13.

Each GS is broken down into 10 steps. So a new grad might start at GS-11 step 1. You automatically go up a step each year for the first 3 years (unless you really do badly), then it slows to 1 step every 2 years, then every 3, so forth. After you reach step 10, you go up a GS rank back at step 1. The exception is being promoted/gain additional credentials. So when I was finishing up my residency, my preceptors advised that I should NOT take BCPS until my 4th year of employment (the step up from BCPS doesn't stack if you are already slated for a step up that year).

Pay is based on GS-schedule which you can find easily PLUS a local adjustment which is harder to find. But since government employee's pay is public record, you can poke your nose in here to see how much someone you know makes:
http://php.app.com/fed_employees11/search.php

Retirement wise, they were telling me that the old 20 years retirement system is now gone. The new system is like a pension + 401K system combo.
Part 1, the 401k-ish: VA give you free 1% regardless, then match dollar for dollar up to 3%, then match 50% up to 5% total.
Part 2, the pension-ish: you can retire when you are at least 57 yrs old. The pension = % (years worked) x (average of highest 3 year's pay). If you have work for 20 years+, you multiply that number by 1.1.

So if you start in the mid/late 20's, putting in 10-15% into 401k, work until you are eligible to retire at 57... between those and any social security left at that time, you should be able to retire pretty easily.

 

[bacillus1]

Yep, 20 year system is gone now. What Xiphoid is saying about retirement is pretty correct. Salary is a bit lower than private sector jobs, but I guess the difference is made up in pension and some other benefits (for example my position is eligible for a bit of loan repayment for a few years, not sure how long that'll be around). As far as the jobs themselves, I think they are more stable than private sector jobs, but the problem is that there is a lot of red tape so pretty hard to start up new clinical services, at least on the inpatient side. My position is a hybrid position, but my official position has not been created yet (they hired me when they had the funding so it wouldn't go away, the VA does that a lot), so so far I float around whatever area or ward needs coverage at the time.

 

[Jibby321]

Did a VA residency, this is what I learned from fellow pharmacists there about benefits.

It is GS schedule, staff pharmacist is usually GS-11. PGY-1 trained is usually GS-11/12. PGY-2 trained is usually GS-12. Management level (chief, assistant chief) are usually GS-13.

Each GS is broken down into 10 steps. So a new grad might start at GS-11 step 1. You automatically go up a step each year for the first 3 years (unless you really do badly), then it slows to 1 step every 2 years, then every 3, so forth. After you reach step 10, you go up a GS rank back at step 1. The exception is being promoted/gain additional credentials. So when I was finishing up my residency, my preceptors advised that I should NOT take BCPS until my 4th year of employment (the step up from BCPS doesn't stack if you are already slated for a step up that year).

Pay is based on GS-schedule which you can find easily PLUS a local adjustment which is harder to find. But since government employee's pay is public record, you can poke your nose in here to see how much someone you know makes:
http://php.app.com/fed_employees11/search.php

Retirement wise, they were telling me that the old 20 years retirement system is now gone. The new system is like a pension + 401K system combo.
Part 1, the 401k-ish: VA give you free 1% regardless, then match dollar for dollar up to 3%, then match 50% up to 5% total.
Part 2, the pension-ish: you can retire when you are at least 57 yrs old. The pension = % (years worked) x (average of highest 3 year's pay). If you have work for 20 years+, you multiply that number by 1.1.

So if you start in the mid/late 20's, putting in 10-15% into 401k, work until you are eligible to retire at 57... between those and any social security left at that time, you should be able to retire pretty easily.

After your residency did the VA look to hire you?

Did you enjoy your time in the residency?

 

[Jibby321]

Yep, 20 year system is gone now. What Xiphoid is saying about retirement is pretty correct. Salary is a bit lower than private sector jobs, but I guess the difference is made up in pension and some other benefits (for example my position is eligible for a bit of loan repayment for a few years, not sure how long that'll be around). As far as the jobs themselves, I think they are more stable than private sector jobs, but the problem is that there is a lot of red tape so pretty hard to start up new clinical services, at least on the inpatient side. My position is a hybrid position, but my official position has not been created yet (they hired me when they had the funding so it wouldn't go away, the VA does that a lot), so so far I float around whatever area or ward needs coverage at the time.

Yep, 20 year system is gone now. What Xiphoid is saying about retirement is pretty correct. Salary is a bit lower than private sector jobs, but I guess the difference is made up in pension and some other benefits (for example my position is eligible for a bit of loan repayment for a few years, not sure how long that'll be around). As far as the jobs themselves, I think they are more stable than private sector jobs, but the problem is that there is a lot of red tape so pretty hard to start up new clinical services, at least on the inpatient side. My position is a hybrid position, but my official position has not been created yet (they hired me when they had the funding so it wouldn't go away, the VA does that a lot), so so far I float around whatever area or ward needs coverage at the time.

Do you enjoy working for the VA?

 

[bacillus1]

Do you enjoy working for the VA?

I wouldn't say that I love my job, but I think it's pretty good. VA jobs are pretty hard to get though, even with a VA residency. I couldn't find one locally (then again, no private sector jobs locally either) so I moved across the country. I now work in another extremely saturated area though, so strange how that worked out. The nice thing about the VA is that I can work in any state without getting that state's license.

 

[Jibby321]

I wouldn't say that I love my job, but I think it's pretty good. VA jobs are pretty hard to get though, even with a VA residency. I couldn't find one locally (then again, no private sector jobs locally either) so I moved across the country. I now work in another extremely saturated area though, so strange how that worked out. The nice thing about the VA is that I can work in any state without getting that state's license.

That's what I hear. I know someone who is the director here where I live and am going to pick his brain next time I see him. I'm gonna see if I can go in and tour the pharmacy and see what the pharmacists do. Is it still pretty competitive with pgy-2 residency?

 

[bacillus1]

That's what I hear. I know someone who is the director here where I live and am going to pick his brain next time I see him. I'm gonna see if I can go in and tour the pharmacy and see what the pharmacists do. Is it still pretty competitive with pgy-2 residency?

I'm not sure, as not too many people at either of the VAs I've worked at have PGY2s. I suppose an am care or geriatrics PGY2 would be useful in securing those types of positions. Just keep in mind that you may have to move somewhere for a position, as one might not be open in your area. VA doesn't have too many inpatient-type PGY2s though, and none of the medicine or critical care pharmacists at either of the VAs I've worked at have PGY2s. I guess just depends on what you want to do.

 

[Jibby321]

I'm not sure, as not too many people at either of the VAs I've worked at have PGY2s. I suppose an am care or geriatrics PGY2 would be useful in securing those types of positions. Just keep in mind that you may have to move somewhere for a position, as one might not be open in your area. VA doesn't have too many inpatient-type PGY2s though, and none of the medicine or critical care pharmacists at either of the VAs I've worked at have PGY2s. I guess just depends on what you want to do.

Ahh I see. Are there any type of specialities that seem to be less competitive or less desired?

 

[bacillus1]

Ahh I see. Are there any type of specialities that seem to be less competitive or less desired?

Not sure. Seems like there are a ton of psych PGY2s out there now, but I think it may be more PGY2s than there are jobs out there.

 

[Jibby321]

Not sure. Seems like there are a ton of psych PGY2s out there now, but I think it may be more PGY2s than there are jobs out there.

Got ya. Thanks for the info friend.

 

[xiphoid2010]

After your residency did the VA look to hire you?

Did you enjoy your time in the residency?

There were 4 residents, I was offered a local ambulatory care position + an oncology spot in Vegas. Another resident took a VA position in Texas. A 3rd one got a verbal commitment from a VA but ended up going private when that position couldn't be finalized due to red-tape. The 4th didn't get a VA offer.

I was a happy resident at the VA. Don't expect to learn fancy new frontier of medicine. What you will learn a ton of is what are the most cost-effective way to achieve the standard of care. And to that end, pharmacists at the VA (especially at the outpatient side) are given more freedom and authority than just about anywhere else.

I ended up taking a private sector job partly because I had the feeling that climbing up within the VA would be slow due to all the politics/bureaucracy. Had I took that vegas position, I probably would still be contently working the same job today. But if that version of me knew where I am now, he probably would be a bit jealous. Basically risk and reward are correlated.

 

[xiphoid2010]

I wouldn't say that I love my job, but I think it's pretty good. VA jobs are pretty hard to get though, even with a VA residency. I couldn't find one locally (then again, no private sector jobs locally either) so I moved across the country. I now work in another extremely saturated area though, so strange how that worked out. The nice thing about the VA is that I can work in any state without getting that state's license.

and you don't have to abide by the state pharmacy laws.

 

[Jibby321]

There were 4 residents, I was offered a local ambulatory care position + an oncology spot in Vegas. Another resident took a VA position in Texas. A 3rd one got a verbal commitment from a VA but ended up going private when that position couldn't be finalized due to red-tape. The 4th didn't get a VA offer.

I was a happy resident at the VA. Don't expect to learn fancy new frontier of medicine. What you will learn a ton of is what are the most cost-effective way to achieve the standard of care. And to that end, pharmacists at the VA (especially at the outpatient side) are given more freedom and authority than just about anywhere else.

I ended up taking a private sector job partly because I had the feeling that climbing up within the VA would be slow due to all the politics/bureaucracy. Had I took that vegas position, I probably would still be contently working the same job today. But if that version of me knew where I am now, he probably would be a bit jealous. Basically risk and reward are correlated.

Thanks xiphoid. Did the residency help you get your private sector job? Is it a hospital position?

 

[xiphoid2010]

Thanks xiphoid. Did the residency help you get your private sector job? Is it a hospital position?

the residency sure helped me a ton. Remember what I said about VA being great at teaching you evidenced based medicine and the most cost-effective ways to provide the standard of care? Many of of the private sector hospitals, especially the smaller or underserved ones, falls short on that. If you prove to them that you can provide better care and save some $$$ at the same time, they'll love you and an enlightened boss will send you up the pharmacy latter in a jiffy, no red tape. On the flip side, my old hospital also got bought, and for a while everyone wasn't sure they still had a job. You won't have that problem at the VA. Risk and reward...

 

[Jibby321]

Thanks xiphoid. Sounds like good opportunities.

 

[SimbaPharmD]

Try to secure a rotation at a VA during your fourth year. I know close to nothing about VAs until I did a rotation at one during my fourth year. After that my interest shifted to ambulatory care. I ended up completing a VA residency and stayed on after graduation. I absolutely love my job!

 

[Jibby321]

Try to secure a rotation at a VA during your fourth year. I know close to nothing about VAs until I did a rotation at one during my fourth year. After that my interest shifted to ambulatory care. I ended up completing a VA residency and stayed on after graduation. I absolutely love my job!

Awesome! Thanks for the info!

 

[y0ssarian87]

Sorry for the bump, but is the VA PGY1 on the GS? If so, what grade is it considered? GS-7? GS-9? Does completion of the VALOR program affect your GS grade or your step? Thanks!

 

[Guilded_Age]

I know a lot of pharmacists who have been in it for 30+ years who are now all retiring and having a good chuckle at all the new residency trained grads coming in.

Those RPh's are some of the most profoundly experienced people I've ever met. You pick up a little bit of everything there in that setting.

 

[bacillus1]

Sorry for the bump, but is the VA PGY1 on the GS? If so, what grade is it considered? GS-7? GS-9? Does completion of the VALOR program affect your GS grade or your step? Thanks!

Not on the GS. It's a set salary, and is whatever they told you in the program announcement or ASHP announcement (if updated). VALOR completion doesn't affect it.

 

[y0ssarian87]

Not on the GS. It's a set salary, and is whatever they told you in the program announcement or ASHP announcement (if updated). VALOR completion doesn't affect it.

Thanks!

 

[GoldfishPharmD]

I know a lot of pharmacists who have been in it for 30+ years who are now all retiring and having a good chuckle at all the new residency trained grads coming in.

Those RPh's are some of the most profoundly experienced people I've ever met. You pick up a little bit of everything there in that setting.

Like peds?

 

[SELDANE]

I know a lot of pharmacists who have been in it for 30+ years who are now all retiring and having a good chuckle at all the new residency trained grads coming in.

Those RPh's are some of the most profoundly experienced people I've ever met. You pick up a little bit of everything there in that setting.

"Profoundly experienced". I don't think that's what comes to mind when most people think of VA pharmacists.

 

[Guilded_Age]

"Profoundly experienced". I don't think that's what comes to mind when most people think of VA pharmacists.

That's because 'most people' are stupid and/or cocky pharmacists eating bread crumbs out of the dirty hands of retail. It's been an advanced practice for a long, long time.

 

[Guilded_Age]

Like peds?

May have misinterpreted your intent by this 2 word post... but here's my knee jerk response:

Is this a jab at the fact that they don't deal with pediatrics? Yeah, no crap Sherlock. Name other pharmacy professions that deal with peds on a regular basis ASIDE FROM PEDIATRIC PHAMRACY.

I know you've drank the residency Kool-Aid but c'mon that's not a fair criticism of that practice setting.

 

[SELDANE]

May have misinterpreted your intent by this 2 word post... but here's my knee jerk response:

Is this a jab at the fact that they don't deal with pediatrics? Yeah, no crap Sherlock. Name other pharmacy professions that deal with peds on a regular basis ASIDE FROM PEDIATRIC PHAMRACY.

I know you've drank the residency Kool-Aid but c'mon that's not a fair criticism of that practice setting.

After reading some of your responses to various posts I really question whether or not you are a pharmacist. However, after this latest outburst I question whether or not you are an adult. If so, try to seek some help. If not, then get off your parent's computer and get back to your summer school studies.

 

[GoldfishPharmD]

May have misinterpreted your intent by this 2 word post... but here's my knee jerk response:

Is this a jab at the fact that they don't deal with pediatrics? Yeah, no crap Sherlock. Name other pharmacy professions that deal with peds on a regular basis ASIDE FROM PEDIATRIC PHAMRACY.

I know you've drank the residency Kool-Aid but c'mon that's not a fair criticism of that practice setting.

It was a joke off you saying they get a bit of "everything".

 

[Guilded_Age]

After reading some of your responses to various posts I really question whether or not you are a pharmacist. However, after this latest outburst I question whether or not you are an adult. If so, try to seek some help. If not, then get off your parent's computer and get back to your summer school studies.

What? C'mon I have a shtick but I'm not that over the line. May as well have some fun as the burning ship of this profession sinks into the dark, cold waters.

 

[pharm B]

Hello,

I'm looking to hear from some pharmacists at the VA. I'm just looking to see if you enjoy what you do and what options a pharmacist has in the VA system. How is the pay? Benefits? Retirement plan etc. and anything else you think might be helpful to a pharmacy student who is considering VA as an option. I am a current 1PD so I have some time to decide on what I want to pursue but VA has my attention this far.

Thanks in advance!

A pharmacist I know at the VA said he was the best paid pharmacist in the state because of the overtime he willingly took on, but he was also one of the most miserable people I've ever met. His fellow inpatient pharmacists shared in his misery. They were particularly pissed that their work wasn't considered clinical, so they were paid less than the CPS.

 

[Guilded_Age]

It was a joke off you saying they get a bit of "everything".

I got'chu boo. Just text makes intent hard to determine sometimes.

 

[GoldfishPharmD]

I got'chu boo. Just text makes intent hard to determine sometimes.

We're good. Have some Kool-Aid!

 

[pharm B]

I should also mention that some facilities will advance you a step for board certification, maybe 2 for separate certs. I knew a BCPP CGP who was started as GS13, grade 3. Plain Jane GS13s at that facility started at step one.

The really grumpy staff RPh was a GS12 with max step in grade, so there was no pay raise on the horizon for him (except for the govt builds in for automatic increases if they do that).

 

[bacillus1]

A pharmacist I know at the VA said he was the best paid pharmacist in the state because of the overtime he willingly took on, but he was also one of the most miserable people I've ever met. His fellow inpatient pharmacists shared in his misery. They were particularly pissed that their work wasn't considered clinical, so they were paid less than the CPS.

Ha, overtime. I stay late probably 1-2x/week, and don't get paid for it, although that's illegal in the state of California, but everyone does it here. We're not paid like CPSs either, so pay is not that high. Also I don't have time for a proper lunch or breaks.

All VAs are different in that regard, I suppose...

 

[rxdawg21]

Hello,

I'm looking to hear from some pharmacists at the VA. I'm just looking to see if you enjoy what you do and what options a pharmacist has in the VA system. How is the pay? Benefits? Retirement plan etc. and anything else you think might be helpful to a pharmacy student who is considering VA as an option. I am a current 1PD so I have some time to decide on what I want to pursue but VA has my attention this far.

Thanks in advance!

I am a current staff pharmacist for the VA that was recently hired.

Staffs start at gs-12 and the pay is mid 90k too start off in my location.
Clinical start at gs-13 with starting pay at low 100s. Right now my max salary is 125 in 20 years if congress never gives an inflation raise again (has been 1% a year lately), where gs13 would be around 135k maxed in 20 years

Retirement is TSP which is similar to 401k but has best options of any plan. Match first 5% of salary. The pension is 1% of salary for every year worked and 1.1% if you stay 30 years. so after 30 years (54 for someone going straight through pharmacy and hired right away) you get 33% of salary. (you theoretically can't retire til 57, and if you use 65 your salary would be 44%). You contribute 4.4% of salary to pension if hired after 2014.

I love my job, it is so much better then wally world, walgreens, and publix of which I have worked at sometime in my pharmacy intern/pharmacist career.

Most of the bosses are gs13 with main boss being gs14.