vaccine administration - why pharmacists over physicians?

[pharmacology888]

HI

I just wanted to facilitate a discussion on why we should promote pharmacists to administer vaccinations over doctors. My thoughts are:
-convenient location: pharmacies are more conveniently located than physician's offices
-hours of operation: pharmacies are open on weekends and less restricted on business hours
-cost: with no insurance, getting a vaccine at the pharmacy is cheaper than at the doctor's office
-easier to make the appointment: doctor's are usually booked

Any other thoughts would be greatly appreciated. thanks

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[soyroger]

HI

I just wanted to facilitate a discussion on why we should promote pharmacists to administer vaccinations over doctors. My thoughts are:
-convenient location: pharmacies are more conveniently located than physician's offices
-hours of operation: pharmacies are open on weekends and less restricted on business hours
-cost: with no insurance, getting a vaccine at the pharmacy is cheaper than at the doctor's office
-easier to make the appointment: doctor's are usually booked

Any other thoughts would be greatly appreciated. thanks

Out of your 4 answers I'd mainly go with cost from the personal perspective. Vaccine at doctor's office = vaccine cost + office visit vs. vaccine at the pharmacy = vaccine cost alone.

From a public health point of view; people see their pharmacist more often than their doctor, therefore more people are likely to get vaccinated with this change in location.

 

[pharmacology888]

Out of your 4 answers I'd mainly go with cost from the personal perspective. Vaccine at doctor's office = vaccine cost + office visit vs. vaccine at the pharmacy = vaccine cost alone.

From a public health point of view; people see their pharmacist more often than their doctor, therefore more people are likely to get vaccinated with this change in location.

Thanks for replying. I have a question regarding the cost. Personally, because I have insurance, all I had to pay was the copay to get my vaccines, however, is it like that with all insurance companies? I understand that if we are referring to the cost for a patient who doesn't have insurance, it would be greater at the doctor's office; but can we extend this notion to a patient who is covered?

 

[MountainPharmD]

First, your doctor does not give you a shot. A nurse in your doctor's office gives the shot. Secondly, access is why pharmacists are perfectly suited as immunizers. There is a pharmacy on every corner.

 

[CanPharm]

First, your doctor does not give you a shot. A nurse in your doctor's office gives the shot. Secondly, access is why pharmacists are perfectly suited as immunizers. There is a pharmacy on every corner.

Totally agree! The only draw back is that pharmacists don't have much practice in giving the shots, so they may not do it as well as most nurses.

 

[OUTexan]

My site visit for the month is a privately owned pharmacy that does 250 scripts a day. They are located right across from a hospital. They have done 700 flu shots this month. Most of these shots were done by a 4th year pharmacy student doing her rotations there. They also do zostavax, garadisil and menigitis shots and others.

 

[alwaystired]

doctor's office sometimes has trouble getting the vaccine. and some of the offices do not want to hassel with it (cost, risk of expiration, procurement, increased business, insurance denials) At least, those are some of the things I can think of.

 

[JerryPharmD]

cost=approx $12

price= approx $30

answer=$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[njac]

actually, we did a flu shot clinic with the nursing school here and the pharmacy students were commended on their shot-giving skills.

I was so scared giving 20-year veteran nurses shots but they were very cool about it.

 

[Farmercyst]

Totally agree! The only draw back is that pharmacists don't have much practice in giving the shots, so they may not do it as well as most nurses.

Take it for what it's worth, but none of the 8 people I gave shots to (I'm up to 10 now) had any clue I hadn't been doing it for years. No one complained. I'm guessing if you've given 10 you've given 1000. The technique doesn't change from 1 person to the next. Starting IV's, that's a whole different story. They can have it.

 

[pinkyrx]

'm guessing if you've given 10 you've given 1000. The technique doesn't change from 1 person to the next.

Very true! There are only so many ways you can give a vaccine.

 

[pharmacology888]

Thanks for the input!

Then how should I approach the topic of promoting pharmacist to administer vaccines as oppose to physicians? My first thougt was to simply just compare the benefits of getting vaccinated at a pharmacy clinic versus at the doctor's office, however, people can counterargue that technically nurses can be hire to run these clinics at pharmacies, so pharmacists don't have to get involved (if it's simply for the cost, conveniece, and hours of operation limits that patients encounter at the doctor's office). This is actually a group project and some one else in my group is already talking about the benefits of administering vaccines in the community pharmacy setting, so I don't know how to expand on my part without overlapping with their content.

thanks once again

 

[Jbuprepharm]

Take it for what it's worth, but none of the 8 people I gave shots to (I'm up to 10 now) had any clue I hadn't been doing it for years. No one complained. I'm guessing if you've given 10 you've given 1000. The technique doesn't change from 1 person to the next. Starting IV's, that's a whole different story. They can have it.

California lets first year students give shots/have patient contact?

I ask because the Texas state board just passed some new regs that first year students cannot touch patients at all (which is kinda dumb) so now they're reduced to triage/paperwork. That's cool though, I wish we could have gotten started with shots last year

 

[Farmercyst]

Thanks for the input!

Then how should I approach the topic of promoting pharmacist to administer vaccines as oppose to physicians? My first thougt was to simply just compare the benefits of getting vaccinated at a pharmacy clinic versus at the doctor's office, however, people can counterargue that technically nurses can be hire to run these clinics at pharmacies, so pharmacists don't have to get involved (if it's simply for the cost, conveniece, and hours of operation limits that patients encounter at the doctor's office). This is actually a group project and some one else in my group is already talking about the benefits of administering vaccines in the community pharmacy setting, so I don't know how to expand on my part without overlapping with their content.

thanks once again

Don't think of it as competition, think of it as augmentation. Based on stats they gave us, in studies done by APhA when they were initially considering Pharmacist immunizations, the overall immunization rate increased in areas where pharmacists were giving immunizations. Sure there would be a slight overall shift, but primarily pharmacists were creating new "customers" if you will. In terms of pharmacist vs nurse, if you shift more of the technical roles (filling, labeling, rx entry) to techs, then you reduce costs over nurses (per se) since techs cost less than nurses, and the pharmacist is there anyway. If the pharmacist were to do nothing but checks, and counsels instead of technician duties, it's possible that immunizations become another revenue stream without a significant increase in required man hours. I am also unsure on whether nurses require supervision, and if so, if that can be done by a pharmacist. Technically the immunizations have to be setup by a protocol signed and, at least on paper, monitored by a physician.

Granted this is primarily theoretical, but based on the pharmacist who supervised my immunizations, it works quite well in his store.

 

[pharmacology888]

Don't think of it as competition, think of it as augmentation. Based on stats they gave us, in studies done by APhA when they were initially considering Pharmacist immunizations, the overall immunization rate increased in areas where pharmacists were giving immunizations. Sure there would be a slight overall shift, but primarily pharmacists were creating new "customers" if you will. In terms of pharmacist vs nurse, if you shift more of the technical roles (filling, labeling, rx entry) to techs, then you reduce costs over nurses (per se) since techs cost less than nurses, and the pharmacist is there anyway. If the pharmacist were to do nothing but checks, and counsels instead of technician duties, it's possible that immunizations become another revenue stream without a significant increase in required man hours. I am also unsure on whether nurses require supervision, and if so, if that can be done by a pharmacist. Technically the immunizations have to be setup by a protocol signed and, at least on paper, monitored by a physician.
Granted this is primarily theoretical, but based on the pharmacist who supervised my immunizations, it works quite well in his store.

I have thought about it in terms of augmentation, but wouldn't that overlap on my group member's part which talks about the benefits of having pharmacists perform vaccinations in community pharmacies/hospitals? I just don't know how to direct my part to specifically promoting pharmacists to administer vaccinations over doctors. Should I change my topic?
I really appreciate everyone's comments; these comments have helped me to sort out my thoughts a bit.

 

[soyroger]

Thanks for replying. I have a question regarding the cost. Personally, because I have insurance, all I had to pay was the copay to get my vaccines, however, is it like that with all insurance companies? I understand that if we are referring to the cost for a patient who doesn't have insurance, it would be greater at the doctor's office; but can we extend this notion to a patient who is covered?

Last year I had a basic student insurance plan that only covered sickness and injury. When I went for my physical and shots required by school I had to pay for everything. Not all insurance plans cover the services you'll likely need.

 

[pharmacology888]

Don't think of it as competition, think of it as augmentation. Based on stats they gave us, in studies done by APhA when they were initially considering Pharmacist immunizations, the overall immunization rate increased in areas where pharmacists were giving immunizations. Sure there would be a slight overall shift, but primarily pharmacists were creating new "customers" if you will. In terms of pharmacist vs nurse, if you shift more of the technical roles (filling, labeling, rx entry) to techs, then you reduce costs over nurses (per se) since techs cost less than nurses, and the pharmacist is there anyway. If the pharmacist were to do nothing but checks, and counsels instead of technician duties, it's possible that immunizations become another revenue stream without a significant increase in required man hours. I am also unsure on whether nurses require supervision, and if so, if that can be done by a pharmacist. Technically the immunizations have to be setup by a protocol signed and, at least on paper, monitored by a physician.
Granted this is primarily theoretical, but based on the pharmacist who supervised my immunizations, it works quite well in his store.

I have thought about it in terms of augmentation, but wouldn't that overlap on my group member's part which talks about the benefits of having pharmacists perform vaccinations in community pharmacies/hospitals? I just don't know how to direct my part to specifically promoting pharmacists to administer vaccinations over doctors. Should I change my topic?
I really appreciate everyone's comments; these comments have helped me to sort out my thoughts a bit.

 

[confettiflyer]

California lets first year students give shots/have patient contact?

I ask because the Texas state board just passed some new regs that first year students cannot touch patients at all (which is kinda dumb) so now they're reduced to triage/paperwork. That's cool though, I wish we could have gotten started with shots last year

Yeah all my first year pharm friends at USC got their immunization certificates, so yeah they're shooting people up like it's going out of style.

 

[BMBiology]

A lot of the retail pharmacies get the flu vaccines way before the physicians so for high risk patients who want to get their immunization in september, the pharmacy is a great option.