Vanderbilt Survey for Program Directors on USMLE Pass/Fail change

[DOCMom84]

I currently work in the Neurosurgery department at a prestigious medical school and since they know I'm about to leave for medical school in a few short months, our Program Director has been kind enough to loop me in on the information being sent to them about the change. This is the email I got from her today:

"Here is some info I came across on a survey Vanderbilt had asked us to complete:

“We have received over 850 responses from program directors in all residency specialties from across the United States. Preliminary results include: 79% believe the change will make it more difficult to objectively compare applicants, 66% will require applicants to submit Step 2 CK scores, and 14% agree that the change is a good idea.”

Just thought I'd share how Program directors are feeling about this new change. Looks like Step 2 will become the new indicator for PDs going forward.

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[Goro]

I currently work in the Neurosurgery department at a prestigious medical school and since they know I'm about to leave for medical school in a few short months, our Program Director has been kind enough to loop me in on the information being sent to them about the change. This is the email I got from her today:

"Here is some info I came across on a survey Vanderbilt had asked us to complete:

“We have received over 850 responses from program directors in all residency specialties from across the United States. Preliminary results include: 79% believe the change will make it more difficult to objectively compare applicants, 66% will require applicants to submit Step 2 CK scores, and 14% agree that the change is a good idea.”

Just thought I'd share how Program directors are feeling about this new change. Looks like Step 2 will become the new indicator for PDs going forward.

As has been mentioned here already.

 

[DameJulie]

so does this mean DO students would have to take Step 2 CK now, in addition to COMLEX Level 2?

 

[harrislakers123]

DOs must take USMLE step 2ck now , yes

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

so does this mean DO students would have to take Step 2 CK now, in addition to COMLEX Level 2?

Most DO's who were trying to match competitively to ACGME programs were taking Step 2 to begin with.

 

[DameJulie]

Most DO's who were trying to match competitively to ACGME programs were taking Step 2 to begin with.

Sorry, my original thought was that DOs only need to take Step 1 and all COMLEX exams. Guess now just more exams to take.

 

[Isoval]

Maybe this means that DO students can skip Step 1 in the future and only sit for Step 2 CK.

Serious consideration. Why take Step 1 if the only reason we took it to begin with was to be compared objectively to our MD counterparts?

 

[Ho0v-man]

Maybe this means that DO students can skip Step 1 in the future and only sit for Step 2 CK.

Serious consideration. Why take Step 1 if the only reason we took it to begin with was to be compared objectively to our MD counterparts?

Most people consider step 1 harder. Currently, a lot of DOs take step 2 but not step 1 bc they think they’d do poorly/fail step 1.

So not taking step 1 will send the message that you couldn’t pass it. But it’s anyone’s guess if PDs will care about passing step 1.

 

[DOCMom84]

Maybe this means that DO students can skip Step 1 in the future and only sit for Step 2 CK.

Serious consideration. Why take Step 1 if the only reason we took it to begin with was to be compared objectively to our MD counterparts?

With the new change, it is now required to take Step 1 before you take Step 2. Skipping it is no longer an option.

 

[Ho0v-man]

With the new change, it is now required to take Step 1 before you take Step 2. Skipping it is no longer an option.

Mind sharing the source? I saw this before but couldn’t find it anywhere. I’m probably just overlooking the obvious lol

 

[slowthai]

Mind sharing the source? I saw this before but couldn’t find it anywhere. I’m probably just overlooking the obvious lol

But it's not, though. Step 1 is required for taking CS, but not CK.

 

[BoneWizard]

With the new change, it is now required to take Step 1 before you take Step 2. Skipping it is no longer an option.

Mind sharing the source? I saw this before but couldn’t find it anywhere. I’m probably just overlooking the obvious lol

Step 1 is only required to take Step 2 CS, not CK.

Source: PDF.js viewer

 

[Ho0v-man]

But it's not, though. Step 1 is required for taking CS, but not CK.

Step 1 is only required to take Step 2 CS, not CK.

Source: PDF.js viewer

That’s what I thought but I’ve seen this on here a couple times.

 

[67552931811]

That’s what I thought but I’ve seen this on here a couple times.

I believe it’s in the original release. I saw it as well. Will try to dig it up

 

[Goro]

so does this mean DO students would have to take Step 2 CK now, in addition to COMLEX Level 2?

In the new environment, strongly recommended. PDs will want some way to stratify candidates.

DOs do just as well as MDs on Step 2, because the playing field is more even

 

[12jas]

With the new change, it is now required to take Step 1 before you take Step 2. Skipping it is no longer an option.

Yeah sorry you are wrong this is false information. As others have stated it is a requirement for CS not CK.

 

[Deecee2DO]

With the new change, it is now required to take Step 1 before you take Step 2. Skipping it is no longer an option.

Sounds profitable wink wink lmfao

 

[Deecee2DO]

In the new environment, strongly recommended. PDs will want some way to stratify candidates.

DOs do just as well as MDs on Step 2, because the playing field is more even

Out of curiosity what levels the playing field? No time spent studying OMM? lol. Step 1 is undeniably more difficult for sure. I just took a combank assessment for my school and compared to the UWorld Rx and kaplan questions I do holy smokes is Comlex easier i felt like it was all first order questions

 

[Goro]

Out of curiosity what levels the playing field? No time spent studying OMM? lol. Step 1 is undeniably more difficult for sure. I just took a combank assessment for my school and compared to the UWorld Rx and kaplan questions I do holy smokes is Comlex easier i felt like it was all first order questions

Your rotations level the playing field. From what I understand of Level II/Step 2 content, it's more clinical management., best practices and the scientific basis of the clinic, rather than knowing obscure eye muscles, or the steps of diabetic ketoacidosis.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Your rotations level the playing field. From what I understand of Level II/Step 2 content, it's more clinical management., best practices and the scientific basis of the clinic, rather than knowing obscure eye muscles, or the steps of diabetic ketoacidosis.

I think it’s bc our schools push level/step2 stuff down our throats during preclinical at the expense of esoteric minutiae that shows up on step 1. Of course there’s still plenty to learn, but IM, FM, a lot of peds and OB have been pretty chill so far bc my school forced me to memorize crap about ABI, CT chest for ca screening, breast lump imaging algorithms, USPTF guidelines, why a cane is never the right answer, diabetic screening, statin protocols, I could go on and on.

I was furious about how much time was wasted on this stuff when we weren’t taught things like biochem or stats properly at all. I’m not for this change to step 1. But if the focus will be on step 2 and other DO schools are anything like mine, this new system could probably help the bottom half of DOs tremendously.

 

[67552931811]

I believe it’s in the original release. I saw it as well. Will try to dig it up

I think I’m wrong. All I saw was a requirement to pass step 1 in order to take “clinical skills” which is CS.

 

[Goro]

I think it’s bc our schools push level/step2 stuff down our throats during preclinical at the expense of esoteric minutiae that shows up on step 1. Of course there’s still plenty to learn, but IM, FM, a lot of peds and OB have been pretty chill so far bc my school forced me to memorize crap about ABI, CT chest for ca screening, breast lump imaging algorithms, USPTF guidelines, why a cane is never the right answer, diabetic screening, statin protocols, I could go on and on.

I was furious about how much time was wasted on this stuff when we weren’t taught things like biochem or stats properly at all. I’m not for this change to step 1. But if the focus will be on step 2 and other DO schools are anything like mine, this new system could probably help the bottom half of DOs tremendously.

Hmmmm...damned if they do, damned if they don't?

In reality, your preclinical years are to prepare you for boards and wards. Too many med students seen to think that their education ends with Step I.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

DOs do just as well as MDs on Step 2, because the playing field is more even

The available data doesn't support this statement, or at least not exactly.

From Charting outcomes, for matched applicants:
Allo av Step 1 = 233
Osteo av Step 1 = 227

Allo av Step 2 = 246
Osteo av Step 2 = 240

So it looks like MD's do slightly better on both steps than DO's. The absolute difference between the two is remarkably consistent -- +6 points for each step, and +13 points from S1 to S2. Evaluated as a percentage improvement, DO's would have a "better" performance on S2 because their S1 baseline is lower.

These data aren't perfect. Not all DO's take USMLE, and some that do may not report it in ERAS (presumably those with lower scores, so the S1 average might be overestimated). And S2 scores for both might be overestimated, since those with poorer performance might decide not to release it (although this might affect allo applicants more).

Regardless, I think we can say that the difference isn't enormous.

 

[Prehealth1011]

Out of curiosity what levels the playing field? No time spent studying OMM? lol. Step 1 is undeniably more difficult for sure. I just took a combank assessment for my school and compared to the UWorld Rx and kaplan questions I do holy smokes is Comlex easier i felt like it was all first order questions

I wouldn’t put too much stalk in combank assessments. They’re way too easy and it serves as a confidence boost but that’s it. Out of all the exams I took, combank assessments were probably the worst use of my time. Comsaes are also crap and doesn’t predict anything but it’s “better” in the sense that you’ll see similar level of vagueness in the real exam. Just keep grinding and keep doing uworld, questions etc.