Okay I won't go into details, but I just had one of the best days of my life become one of the worst in memory, all because of a single scrub nurse. They are usually nice while the attending is around, but as soon as he left the room I got crucified, not for doing anything wrong, but just for practically being there. Is this just me? I am the most gracious and polite person I could possibly be to them, but I still get this from time to time; can anyone else relate?
Venting: Scrub Nurses :(
- Thread starter lundysd
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My only OR experience has been this summer and it wasn't at a teaching hospital. I've heard that scrub nurses at universities generally don't care for med students. I've also talked to female med students that were treated rudely by scrub nurses. I, myself, have been treated very well by them. I received the same treatment whether there was an attending there or not. It's probably an abberration.
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Just blow it off. They get the abuse day in and day out and you're the only person they can possibly pass it off to. Just be curteous, friendly, and cautious and there is nothing more you can do. Some will still try to use you as a whipping post. I've found that if you make it clear to them you won't tolerate their abuse through your attitude and the way you carry yourself, they usually won't try any antics.
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Wait till you get to ob/gyn ... 
Sometimes nurses are really just taking out their anger on whoever is available and this can be students but also residents, or even the cleaning crew. Part of the process, but just keep your eyes open and be aware. You'll find a way to deal with it in your own way. Don't take it personally.
Sometimes nurses are really just taking out their anger on whoever is available and this can be students but also residents, or even the cleaning crew. Part of the process, but just keep your eyes open and be aware. You'll find a way to deal with it in your own way. Don't take it personally.
N
njbmd
Hey Guys,
Let this stuff roll off and remind yourself not to take anything "out" on anyone else. I have never understood why people who work in a teaching hospital find it necessary to be anything other than helpful to any type of student. It is a mark of professionalism to show courtesy and respect to everyone even if it is not returned. In the long run, show good will and it will be returned to you in spades. Everyone has a bad day now and again. In the large scheme of things, do these people matter? No!
njbmd
Let this stuff roll off and remind yourself not to take anything "out" on anyone else. I have never understood why people who work in a teaching hospital find it necessary to be anything other than helpful to any type of student. It is a mark of professionalism to show courtesy and respect to everyone even if it is not returned. In the long run, show good will and it will be returned to you in spades. Everyone has a bad day now and again. In the large scheme of things, do these people matter? No!
njbmd
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Right or wrong, for better or worse, students in general make nurses/techs/everyone's jobs more difficult, especially in July. Think about it...in the OR, how often does a student know enough to anticipate a problem and avoid it, thus saving the tech from extra work? Not very often. But, how often is the student (usually due to ignorance, overeagerness, or plain stupidity) the cause of a problem? Pretty often. That's one of the reasons that younger RNs/techs are usually more amenable to having students around--they haven't dealt with enough student-initiated problems to hate us yet. Lots of times they treat the interns the same way. It's just an unfortunate part of the training process. Once you've been around the block and know what you're doing, they'll often appreciate the little things you do that make their jobs easier (but they won't always tell you that, so don't wait for it). Also, we're the ones that can't/don't confront them, so it's safe for them to take out their frustrations on us--they realize that they wear the pants in our relationship.
The best thing you can do now is let it roll off your back and not take it personally (because it's not personal--even though it may seem like it is). Then, acknowledge that they have more experience than you and ask them for advice. And, when you're waiting around in the OR, ask if there's anything you can do to help them. Occasionally this will put you in their good graces and they'll back off. If not, just grin and bear it.
The best thing you can do now is let it roll off your back and not take it personally (because it's not personal--even though it may seem like it is). Then, acknowledge that they have more experience than you and ask them for advice. And, when you're waiting around in the OR, ask if there's anything you can do to help them. Occasionally this will put you in their good graces and they'll back off. If not, just grin and bear it.
B
Blade28
Happens a lot. Scrub techs sometimes feel they rule the OR.
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If you want to know why some scrub nurses are total cocks, take time sometime off of staring at the retractor and observe their interaction with surgeons. The scrub nurses call the shots until the surgeons get there, at which point they become like slaves who have to do everything that the surgeon tells them to do. They also try to be helpful and ask if they should get this or that while the surgeon just ignores them for long stretches of time because they're focused on the surgery or on teaching the interns/med students. In summary they become the surgeon's bitch, but as "owners of the OR" that's always an uncomfortable position for them to be in. Kind of like being Saddam Hussein, he's the President of Iraq but the US can come and make him their bitch. Now imagine you're a weak cell mate of Saddam, you don't think he's going to abuse your ass?
In my experience, most scrub nurses are very cool and patient with med students. But the cocks can ruin your day.
In my experience, most scrub nurses are very cool and patient with med students. But the cocks can ruin your day.
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the best explanation i got was that they themselves are treated poorly by surgeons and then see med students as a future doctors/surgeons so they abuse the med student because they know they can for the time being since he/she is not yet a doctor (i.e taking out their frustrations by proxy). as i've said in another thread, the best way i think to handle a situation like this is to remain aloof and apathetic toward people who bother you (in this case scrub nurses). nothing stops people from treating you poorly as them realizing you are not being affected by their behavior. in reality its no big deal, its just another scrub nurse frustrated by her position in life taking it out on you.
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My sis is a surgical nurse (at the hospital she works at, the nurses scrub and circulate, so I didn't want to just say scrub nurse). From talking to her, I've heard a lot of stories about the way med students are treated--both by the surgeons and nurses--none of it very encouraging. It also sounds like what several people have said about their behavior being a reaction to their treatment by the surgeons is right on. It seems much more "old school" in the OR environment as far as how nurses are viewed, i.e. as the doctor's bitch rather than as a valued member of the medical team. In some other areas of medicine, nurses have become more respected and seem to be taking on more responsibility, but in the OR they are relegated to little more than techs who have to deal with the massive ego that some surgeons are notorious for. Some of the stories of what surgeons have said and done to her and other nurses there are just mind-boggling in their arrogance. Obviously it won't work with all nurses, but in general I think if you are respectful and admit that as a med student you have a lot to learn from them, most nurses won't treat you like a mentally disabled child in need of discipline.
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I'm a scrub tech and in a few months will be a nurse.
Students often will not recognize when they contamintate themselves or the field. Having to re-drape or send for new instruments because you (the srub) where not vigilant is every scrubs nightmare. Your surgeon will be mad at you, anesthesia will give you dirty looks, your circulator gets upset, and the folks running the BIG board are PO'd 'cause you messed up the schedule. There is never a reason to be rude though.
I am never rude to any student. I know how hard they work. I will always hand them scissors, laps and retractors ahead of time so they can look good in front of the residents and attendings. I've even wrote the answer to a few pimp questions (since I've heard the SAME question 15,000 times) with my sterile marker on the Mayo stand to help out a med school pal.
Good Karma. Someday I'll be in the same position and I want to be treated decently.
Students often will not recognize when they contamintate themselves or the field. Having to re-drape or send for new instruments because you (the srub) where not vigilant is every scrubs nightmare. Your surgeon will be mad at you, anesthesia will give you dirty looks, your circulator gets upset, and the folks running the BIG board are PO'd 'cause you messed up the schedule. There is never a reason to be rude though.
I am never rude to any student. I know how hard they work. I will always hand them scissors, laps and retractors ahead of time so they can look good in front of the residents and attendings. I've even wrote the answer to a few pimp questions (since I've heard the SAME question 15,000 times) with my sterile marker on the Mayo stand to help out a med school pal.
Good Karma. Someday I'll be in the same position and I want to be treated decently.
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I suspect I speak for many of your SDN med school pals in asking that you write up a short list of these pimping questions for us to study.sunnyjohn said:
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lundysd said:
The expression "$hit rolls downhill" appears to apply here.
Although I've yet to begin, I've worked in the ER and surg...I find females are often treated with more contempt (by other females). I've never had a problem in a clinical setting but I'm just over 30, a relatively big guy, and usually respond in a subtle manner when treated poorly.
Some people suck...some just have bad days and you're available to abuse. It happens in many professions I should think...certainly in bench research if your PI is communicatively inept as many are. Is it a pattern or just isolated venting? The isolated stuff you just have to let go...
So often in life SOME people will treat you poorly if they think there are no consequences. When you take it and when you react is up to you.
Be advised (as you may know) responding often makes YOU look bad...whereas mean people usually look idiotic enough on their own.
=======================================
Suggestions?
I often consider possible responses when treated poorly, i.e., in your case:
(some relatively tame replies)
"Perhaps I can help you extract that retractor inserted in your rectum?"
or
"Gee, people must really WANT to be around you. You seem like such a wonderful person!"
Passive-aggressive I know but I enjoy it. If the consequences aren't too bad or it could be considered funny you might even be able to verbalize a comment...leaving people with a comment they're not sure how to take can be valuable...or antagonistic.
Good luck.
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"There are 3 types of people in the world: *******, dicks and dinguses. *******, they get ****ed by the dicks. Dicks **** *******, but dicks also **** dinguses. And dinguses... they just **** all over everything."
--Team America World Police
--Team America World Police
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liverotcod said:
Don't worry, every pimp question you'll need to know is in Surgical Recall. When the time comes, buy it, read it, and then read it again. BUT...never let the surgeons see you with it (you don't want them to know that you have a copy of the test).
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emster said:
I have to agree here, and it seemed to work for me all during MS3. If someone is being really mean for no apparent reason, just shrug it off, and continue to be extra nice to them. Most of the time, they'll feel guilty and start being nicer to you, but the ones who are just looking to pick a fight will get more frusterated (which is always entertaining) and find someone easier to torture. Plus, being the bigger person always looks better to your resident and attendings...it beats being confrontational.
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This happened to me recently with an attending. I'd seriously JUST introduced myself and he went off on me. I guess the ER was too busy for him or something...you'd think a 65 year old physician who's been doing ER for awhile would learn how to not act like a 10 year old boy.....
People suck sometimes.
Just walk away, but remember how they treated you, cause God knows they remember everything about you......
People suck sometimes.
Just walk away, but remember how they treated you, cause God knows they remember everything about you......
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siempre595 said:
next time someone is rude to you in the OR.. just punch the **** out of them.... really hard.. and if that doesnt put them down.. punch them harder until the fall to the ground.. guaranteed they wont be rude to you again..
if people were allowed to do this.. I guaratee you that the passive aggressiveness would cease and desist.
