Verifying applicant history (or: my roommate got accepted HOW?)

[SaturnRX]

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So, my roommate and I (both pre-med) got into a discussion about our third, former roomie today, also pre-med, after she contacted us to say she was accepted to a school this week. This roomie was pretty much a terrible person in terms of ethics. In our second year together, she was caught by the school forging signatures to get into closed classes. I mean a DOZEN forgeries. At first she lied about involvement, but finally relinquished under threat of expulsion. The school was lenient. She got off with some community service hours, an ethics project, counseling, and disciplinary probationary status. Of course, the following semester, she was dismissed from the university with a 1.75 GPA (cumulative, no less) and failure to comply with sanctions. She then attended community college and finished her degree at a new institution by transferring her community college credits (not her transcripts from the dismissing university). I asked how she explained the dismissal/IAs (like a good skeptic) and she said she just didn't submit transcripts from our university. So, in total, she violated conduct code, was dismissed from school, then falsified her academic history to AAMC.

Barring that there's a strong chance she's just lying about the acceptance (although, her family blew up her facebook with congratulatory comments), what are the chances this is going to get caught by the med school? Hell, how have they NOT caught this? I've heard that there are ways to 'circumvent' the system, but now I'm really curious as to what the safe guards are for a person like this. How do med schools go about reviewing the truthfulness of an applicant in terms of IAs/dismissals/transcripts?

(No, I am not trolling. I couldn't make this **** up if I tried.)

 

[BlackSwan]

She probably will be caught. There is a centralized database with records of every school attended by a student.

http://www.studentclearinghouse.org/about/

Sent from mobile

 

[Doctor Strange]

Did she get into a Caribbean?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using SDN Mobile

 

[Bluto385]

Where's a Don Corleone when you need one?

 

[cinamin]

So, my roommate and I (both pre-med) got into a discussion about our third, former roomie today, also pre-med, after she contacted us to say she was accepted to a school this week. This roomie was pretty much a terrible person in terms of ethics. In our second year together, she was caught by the school forging signatures to get into closed classes. I mean a DOZEN forgeries. At first she lied about involvement, but finally relinquished under threat of expulsion. The school was lenient. She got off with some community service hours, an ethics project, counseling, and disciplinary probationary status. Of course, the following semester, she was dismissed from the university with a 1.75 GPA (cumulative, no less) and failure to comply with sanctions. She then attended community college and finished her degree at a new institution by transferring her community college credits (not her transcripts from the dismissing university). I asked how she explained the dismissal/IAs (like a good skeptic) and she said she just didn't submit transcripts from our university. So, in total, she violated conduct code, was dismissed from school, then falsified her academic history to AAMC.

Barring that there's a strong chance she's just lying about the acceptance (although, her family blew up her facebook with congratulatory comments), what are the chances this is going to get caught by the med school? Hell, how have they NOT caught this? I've heard that there are ways to 'circumvent' the system, but now I'm really curious as to what the safe guards are for a person like this. How do med schools go about reviewing the truthfulness of an applicant in terms of IAs/dismissals/transcripts?

(No, I am not trolling. I couldn't make this **** up if I tried.)

I'm surprised she hasn't been caught by now... hmmm. Is it a US MD or DO school?

 

[appleman123]

you should don a batman cape and report her to the school. surely that will make you feel better.

/sarcasm.



grow up man. what goes around comes around. get into medical school the correct way and live YOUR life as ethically as you want to. there will always be flakes through the cracks.

 

[neuro nephrons]

In the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't matter. You will find some solace in about a year when you see via facebook or she tells you that she's been kicked out of med school. No way she makes it past year 1.

 

[MusicJunkie]

It does pose an interesting question though: Is there a way for schools to verify what colleges/university a person has attended? A lot of the admissions process, because of the sheer volume of applicants, depends on integrity and a person's promise to disclose all information. I don't think a school would check information on all applicants, as this may be time consuming.

 

[cinamin]

It does pose an interesting question though: Is there a way for schools to verify what colleges/university a person has attended? A lot of the admissions process, because of the sheer volume of applicants, depends on integrity and a person's promise to disclose all information. I don't think a school would check information on all applicants, as this may be time consuming.

Wondering the same. Technically I can see how this person got away with it and there are probably many more who went to college and failed out or got kicked out, then started all over somewhere else and didn't send in their first transcripts. Oh well. It's not fair but life isn't fair, there are cheaters everywhere you go. There will always be 'bad seeds' if you will.

 

[Long Way to Go]

It does pose an interesting question though: Is there a way for schools to verify what colleges/university a person has attended? A lot of the admissions process, because of the sheer volume of applicants, depends on integrity and a person's promise to disclose all information. I don't think a school would check information on all applicants, as this may be time consuming.

http://www.studentclearinghouse.org/

It's probably a post-accepted check. It wouldn't take that long to submit a check for a couple hundred students and make sure their AMCAS' list of attended institutions is comprehensive

 

[Mako555]

find out what school she is going to and send them an email. some people might think this is not a cool thing to do, but it seems like this person has no place taking a spot in class from someone else.

 

[MusicJunkie]

http://www.studentclearinghouse.org/

It's probably a post-accepted check. It wouldn't take that long to submit a check for a couple hundred students and make sure their AMCAS' list of attended institutions is comprehensive

That makes sense!

I didn't even know this thing existed. lol

Wondering the same. Technically I can see how this person got away with it and there are probably many more who went to college and failed out or got kicked out, then started all over somewhere else and didn't send in their first transcripts. Oh well. It's not fair but life isn't fair, there are cheaters everywhere you go. There will always be 'bad seeds' if you will.

And I can see how that happens too. If this person does get caught, I'm thinking it's pretty much a wrap for them. 1) Applicant didn't disclose the fact that you went to a specific school. 2) Applicant got an IA at that school for forging signatures and had to do extensive work (community service, project, etc) to combat the charge. 3) Applicant got a 1.75 GPA at the school (out of all of them, this last one is the least grave if there was an upward trend, I'm thinking).

I wonder if they had disclosed the IA and the GPA, if it would have blacklisted them from schools, or if a sufficient explanation + apology + statement outlining their growth would have been fine.

 

[Mako555]

I wonder if they had disclosed the IA and the GPA, if it would have blacklisted them from schools, or if a sufficient explanation + apology + statement outlining their growth would have been fine.

even one semester of grades that bad would put most people out of the running. a year or more of that is pretty much a death sentence for US MD.

OP - do what you can to make sure this person gets what they deserve.

 

[MusicJunkie]

even one semester of grades that bad would put most people out of the running. a year or more of that is pretty much a death sentence for US MD.

OP - do what you can to make sure this person gets what they deserve.

Fair point.

And I don't agree with "doing what you can to make sure this person gets what they deserve." This doesn't concern the OP. Ethically, it's the student's responsibility to disclose information.

 

[La Presse]

You guys are making a big deal out of nothing. A guy I have known for quite some time confided in me that he has been accepted to medical school even without a sturdy history of achievement. After probing him for the umpteenth time, he finally relented and pulled out a few brochures from a school in Antigua, and grinned.

 

[DrZeke]

This is actually not necessarily true. I've known people who got in who are drug dealers and bad people and if there is no record then whatever. Not everyone gets what "they deserve". In general the universe works in mysterious ways. If the OP feels in their responsibility to say something then they can and it is not wrong. If you must wanna rant and complain, that's ok, but I hate to say it... That's life 🙂

 

[Planes2Doc]

She probably will be caught. There is a centralized database with records of every school attended by a student.

http://www.studentclearinghouse.org/about/

Sent from mobile

Wondering the same. Technically I can see how this person got away with it and there are probably many more who went to college and failed out or got kicked out, then started all over somewhere else and didn't send in their first transcripts. Oh well. It's not fair but life isn't fair, there are cheaters everywhere you go. There will always be 'bad seeds' if you will.

I'm very surprised this person hasn't been caught, because we are aware of the Student Clearing House. I did read an article once about a guy who got caught years later because he kept failing out of schools and ended up going to different ones. This person can get caught at any time. If this person hasn't been caught already, they must live in paranoia, with the feeling that your door will get kicked down at any moment by the cops.

Then it's worse when you've already invested a few years, and everything you've worked for (plus the money you've spent) comes crashing down.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

 

[Mavii]

find out what school she is going to and send them an email. some people might think this is not a cool thing to do, but it seems like this person has no place taking a spot in class from someone else.

I think I'm going to nominate you for the Roommate of the Year award...

I'm pretty sure if the person in question reads this thread, then OP is going to end up on the side of a milk carton.

Stay safe OP 👍

 

[Camy99]

I think I'm going to nominate you for the Roommate of the Year award...

I'm pretty sure if the person in question reads this thread, then OP is going to end up on the side of a milk carton.

Stay safe OP 👍

 

[MedPR]

find out what school she is going to and send them an email. some people might think this is not a cool thing to do, but it seems like this person has no place taking a spot in class from someone else.

 

[Pattycake25]

Hehe...imagine if the "roommate" in question is in fact the OP, and we are all sitting around and inadvertently telling the OP (with glee) that his career's utter annihilation is imminent.

 

[GorillaPanic]

Schools don't give any weight to unsolicited letters/emails/calls received about applicants as they are often motivated by grudges. LizzyM has stated that she has received these before and that it doesn't make any difference...

Chances are they will get caught, but even if they don't, I really doubt they will make it far in Med school anyway. Just laugh when then drop out in 2-3 years with massive debt hanging over their head.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[487806]

So, my roommate and I (both pre-med) got into a discussion about our third, former roomie today, also pre-med, after she contacted us to say she was accepted to a school this week. This roomie was pretty much a terrible person in terms of ethics. In our second year together, she was caught by the school forging signatures to get into closed classes. I mean a DOZEN forgeries. At first she lied about involvement, but finally relinquished under threat of expulsion. The school was lenient. She got off with some community service hours, an ethics project, counseling, and disciplinary probationary status. Of course, the following semester, she was dismissed from the university with a 1.75 GPA (cumulative, no less) and failure to comply with sanctions. She then attended community college and finished her degree at a new institution by transferring her community college credits (not her transcripts from the dismissing university). I asked how she explained the dismissal/IAs (like a good skeptic) and she said she just didn't submit transcripts from our university. So, in total, she violated conduct code, was dismissed from school, then falsified her academic history to AAMC.

Barring that there's a strong chance she's just lying about the acceptance (although, her family blew up her facebook with congratulatory comments), what are the chances this is going to get caught by the med school? Hell, how have they NOT caught this? I've heard that there are ways to 'circumvent' the system, but now I'm really curious as to what the safe guards are for a person like this. How do med schools go about reviewing the truthfulness of an applicant in terms of IAs/dismissals/transcripts?

(No, I am not trolling. I couldn't make this **** up if I tried.)

So.... many.... premeds... in... one... room....



In all seriousness, it's unethical, and likely, if the school found out, her acceptance will probably be rescinded.

I think I'm going to nominate you for the Roommate of the Year award...

I'm pretty sure if the person in question reads this thread, then OP is going to end up on the side of a milk carton.

Stay safe OP 👍

 

[def1]

Is she from Texas? Maybe she did an Academic Fresh Start program.

Either way even if she gets in, if everything you say is true, its highly likely she wont make it very far anyway.

 

[Lollygag]

http://www.studentclearinghouse.org/

It's probably a post-accepted check. It wouldn't take that long to submit a check for a couple hundred students and make sure their AMCAS' list of attended institutions is comprehensive

Exactly, they may not feel like doing this for thousands of students, it may just take up too much time and effort, but I'm sure they'll do it for the 165ish they accept.

Like others said though, they most likely won't make it past first year and when they are kicked out with a crapload of loans to pay back, you'll be the one with the last laugh lol

 

[Lollygag]

Or their Dad could be the dean

 

[Planes2Doc]

Is she from Texas? Maybe she did an Academic Fresh Start program.

Either way even if she gets in, if everything you say is true, its highly likely she wont make it very far anyway.

Oh the things I would have done to have been born in Texas. 🙁

 

[Planes2Doc]

Exactly, they may not feel like doing this for thousands of students, it may just take up too much time and effort, but I'm sure they'll do it for the 165ish they accept.

Like others said though, they most likely won't make it past first year and when they are kicked out with a crapload of loans to pay back, you'll be the one with the last laugh lol

Easy there... I doubt they would do it that way. Otherwise, everyone would be sweeping past academic records under the rug just as commonly as people dramatically embellish their ECs and hours. If this were the case, it would be crazy!

I'm sure they go through the Clearing House just like they run background checks. Do remember that if you attend a non-accredited school, you never have to report it, because unless you do, it's like you never existed as a student. So if you flunked out of something like Everest College, no one would ever know.

 

[silverturtle]

I'm pretty sure if the person in question reads this thread, then OP is going to end up on the side of a milk carton.

Stay safe OP 👍

This made my day
🤣

 

[Lollygag]

Easy there... I doubt they would do it that way. Otherwise, everyone would be sweeping past academic records under the rug just as commonly as people dramatically embellish their ECs and hours. If this were the case, it would be crazy!

I'm sure they go through the Clearing House just like they run background checks. Do remember that if you attend a non-accredited school, you never have to report it, because unless you do, it's like you never existed as a student. So if you flunked out of something like Everest College, no one would ever know.

But if that's how they do it, then how would the OP's friend manage to be accepted, assuming schools use Clearing House before they accept students.

I'm starting to think that their just lying to be honest. It just doesn't make sense. Either that or they went Caribbean.

 

[Planes2Doc]

But if that's how they do it, then how would the OP's friend manage to be accepted, assuming schools use Clearing House before they accept students.

I'm starting to think that their just lying to be honest. It just doesn't make sense. Either that or they went Caribbean.

Oh for some dumb reason I confused this thread with the previous thread asking whether it would be a good idea to start at a Caribbean school and then apply to a US school to improve the application. I guess that's what studying is doing to me tonight. 😎

Then I'm honestly as puzzled as you are. I'm just assuming that every school would do a background check on schools for the applicants. But then again, I'm not an ADCOM, so I don't know.

There are probably very sneaky and unethical ways of making it look like a school never existed. And until we actually find out, we can only use our imagination.

 

[Lollygag]

Oh for some dumb reason I confused this thread with the previous thread asking whether it would be a good idea to start at a Caribbean school and then apply to a US school to improve the application. I guess that's what studying is doing to me tonight. 😎

Then I'm honestly as puzzled as you are. I'm just assuming that every school would do a background check on schools for the applicants. But then again, I'm not an ADCOM, so I don't know.

There are probably very sneaky and unethical ways of making it look like a school never existed. And until we actually find out, we can only use our imagination.

LOL I read that thread and then left because I'm tired and I knew it would hurt my head haha

Yea it sucks, but I wish the person who unethically lied and cheated through their application was at least qualified.

Don't get me wrong, its definitely still bad either way but the fact that this person is clearly stupid and a total waste of a slot just makes me

 

[circulus vitios]

Just laugh when then drop out in 2-3 years with massive debt hanging over their head.

This has never happened. Hundreds to thousands of applicants lie about and embellish their ECs every year. If a student had been kicked out of medical school for faking ECs or whatever else, the whole internet would have heard about it.

 

[AestheticGod]

Snitch that girl out. I'm not a fan of snitches, but **** that ****, she's taking other peoples rightful spot.

 

[AestheticGod]

I think I'm going to nominate you for the Roommate of the Year award...

I'm pretty sure if the person in question reads this thread, then OP is going to end up on the side of a milk carton.

Stay safe OP 👍

OH LAWD LMAO 👍 👍

 

[GorillaPanic]

This has never happened. Hundreds to thousands of applicants lie about and embellish their ECs every year. If a student had been kicked out of medical school for faking ECs or whatever else, the whole internet would have heard about it.

If they had to lie about everything on their app to the degree that the OP describes, then they obviously aren't cut out to succeed in med school and will likely fail out I feel. .

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[RG3forPresident]

This has never happened. Hundreds to thousands of applicants lie about and embellish their ECs every year. If a student had been kicked out of medical school for faking ECs or whatever else, the whole internet would have heard about it.

but this isn't embellishing ECs. This is straight up denying that you went to a specific school for college, and hiding a large number of grades. This is on a totally different level of unethical practices.

 

[AestheticGod]

Oh the things I would have done to have been born in Texas. 🙁

I second this. I now want to move to texas 😀

 

[MedPR]

Snitch that girl out. I'm not a fan of snitches, but **** that ****, she's taking other peoples rightful spot.

As if anyone has a right to a spot in medical school. 🙄

 

[Planes2Doc]

Just for fun... What would you do if you went to an unaccredited school like Everest and had really bad grades and serious IA levied against you? Would you still report attending the school despite no searchable record of it?

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

Just for fun... What would you do if you went to an unaccredited school like Everest and had really bad grades and serious IA levied against you? Would you still report attending the school despite no searchable record of it?

No way I would ever report it. Call me an unethical bum if you want to, but guaranteeing ill never get caught for purposely leaving out bad grades I had in the past? Done deal.

 

[La Presse]

No way I would ever report it. Call me an unethical bum if you want to, but guaranteeing ill never get caught for purposely leaving out bad grades I had in the past? Done deal.

Let's be besties. Good answer.


Sent from my iPad using SDN Mobile app.

 

[MedPR]

Just for fun... What would you do if you went to an unaccredited school like Everest and had really bad grades and serious IA levied against you? Would you still report attending the school despite no searchable record of it?

Yes, but only out of fear that Everest would someday become accredited and all its records become searchable.

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

Let's be besties. Good answer.


Sent from my iPad using SDN Mobile app.

Many, many real life friends, but finally an internet one. I've dreamed of this day for years.... 😀 :thumbs up:

Edit: just saw your sig say "Charlotte York"... we should be besties. that's my girllllllll

 

[AestheticGod]

I'm actually wondering if it's even possible for her to get caught. If there's NO record of her going to that uni, then they won't think of looking there in the first place. So OP, did she retake ALL her classes again for 3 years?

 

[TriagePreMed]

Just for fun... What would you do if you went to an unaccredited school like Everest and had really bad grades and serious IA levied against you? Would you still report attending the school despite no searchable record of it?

The IA might be a problem, but the grades would certainly not. Unaccredited units do not count toward your AAMC or AACOM GPA.

 

[bollywoodlover]

I feel like people must get away with things like this all the time. Mostly in regard to ECs, embellishment of ECs, etc. It's just takes to long for schools to verify these things. That's life though. I have yet to hear of anyone on sdn getting kicked because a school actually verified EVERYTHING and found something false. It just takes too much time I think.

I actually attended a lecture from a doctor whose famous in the media and attended UCLA med. He actually implied that it is easy to get away with not sending past grades from a CC or university in the past that you attended. I know most schools do a background check, but I'm not sure if universities attended is included in that. I doubt it.

Kinda sucks that life isn't always fair huh?

 

[SaturnRX]

Wow, figured this would get some response, but not nearly this much. Just really needed an outlet for my frustration.

Yes, it's a US school, MD in her state. I won't name names, mostly on the off chance she ever happens to find this, but it was one I was denied admittance to post-interview (only burns a little; just a little; fine, a lot). I have to assume she retook all her pre-req science courses and pretty much everything else (I mean, with a 1.75 cGPA, how many classes could she really have passed?) given what I did see of her grades when she was finally dismissed (Ds/Fs). Really, it's not that impossible to imagine the how of this happening: get kicked out of school while you're still young, move back home (which is out of state of the first university in her case), enroll in community college, attend every quarter successfully, transfer to low tier state university, take MCAT, apply and get in. If all of her degree requirements were completed between those two schools with no transfer credits, I can see how she managed it. Add in that my school throws financial aid around like crazy, so she never had to take out loans (even less chance of a paper trail). Still, it clearly burns my ass to see this sort of dishonesty.

On the one hand, I can understand having struggled in school and not wanting to admit to that after succeeding elsewhere. On the other, having known her for a few years, she was a chronic liar and that has all sorts of bad implications for her future and, god forbid, that of her patients. I'm in a situation where I was on academic probation for a semester after failing one course, putting me below full time student standing. I had to report that to schools even though redoing the course took that standing off my transcript. It makes me seriously wonder what integrity is even worth these days and frustrates me to no end to see others excelling by being deceitful. Obviously, it won't help me to complain (so no ragging on me) and I'm just focusing on improving my own app to get in next round, but it does make me doubt the ability of the system to track anything. Hence why I ask about safeguards in terms of reporting IAs/dismissals/other schools/general douche-baggery. I swear, if I thought reporting her to her school would manage anything, I'd try. I doubt any sort of contact with the school would get a response though.

 

[gookies]

If you believe in karma, she'll get what she deserves when she least expects it.

 

[Lys Ile Glu Leu]

My worry would be for her patients. People may say she doesn't stand a chance in medical school based on her prior performance, but don't forget, she got in! She convinced an adcom that she can survive medical school, therefore, she has a decent likelihood of doing so. This isn't a "she'll get what she deserves" situation either. Her future patients will pay/suffer for your silence.

Sent from my SGH-T769