I have recently graduated with two degrees in animals sciences and I currently work at petsmart and will be working towards becoming a groomer as that will add to my animal exerperince. I am having problems getting veterinary experience and am amazed at how people are finishing undergrad with like 10000+ hours worth of veterinary experience. I even look at a veterinarian or a vet clinic and pretty much get instantly rejected. Any advice on how to get vet experience? Should I even mention wanting to go to vet school during an interview? Should I throw my 4 years of college away and just get a Vet Tech certification instead and work my way up from there? I'm at a loss for what I should do.
Veterinary experience
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I worked as a kennel tech for several years and I've been a vet tech for about a year and a half now (Texas doesn't require certification) and I'll tell you that it can be hard to get your foot in the door. You can get veterinary supervised hours by shadowing a doctor though. Find a clinic you like and either send them an email or call them and ask if they allow pre-veterinary students to shadow and go from there.
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DONT GO TO TECH SCHOOL AS A STEP TO GOING TI VET SCHOOL. If you want to be a tech, go to tech school. If you want to be a vet, go to vet school. Don’t do both. You’ll just be putting yourself more in debt.
Go show up at some clinics or call and ask if there’s a good time to come in, dressed decently, and with your resume and ask if the doctor would be willing to let you shadow for a day because you are thinking about going to veterinary school and want to see if it’s the right profession for you. Don’t ask for a long shadowing commitment when you first ask because most places would rather commit to one or a few days instead of a whole summer. If this initial bit of shadowing goes well, ask if you can come back and they’ll probably say yes, but this way they’re not locked into a summer-long commitment in case it doesn’t work out. You don’t need to work at a veterinary office to gain veterinary experience if you are unable to find a veterinary assistant job (probably what you’d be most likely applying for with no teching experience)
Go show up at some clinics or call and ask if there’s a good time to come in, dressed decently, and with your resume and ask if the doctor would be willing to let you shadow for a day because you are thinking about going to veterinary school and want to see if it’s the right profession for you. Don’t ask for a long shadowing commitment when you first ask because most places would rather commit to one or a few days instead of a whole summer. If this initial bit of shadowing goes well, ask if you can come back and they’ll probably say yes, but this way they’re not locked into a summer-long commitment in case it doesn’t work out. You don’t need to work at a veterinary office to gain veterinary experience if you are unable to find a veterinary assistant job (probably what you’d be most likely applying for with no teching experience)
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Another way to go about it is to look into volunteering at a shelter. Some of them have volunteer opportunities in their medical areas - I worked one summer as a surgery recovery volunteer. They are often a little more flexible because they aren't working on client-owned animals, so there isn't as much liability.
I agree if you've been looking specifically to "volunteer" or applying for jobs at private practice clinics, that may be where it's going wrong. You may have better luck asking to shadow for a day, and then see where it goes from there.
I agree if you've been looking specifically to "volunteer" or applying for jobs at private practice clinics, that may be where it's going wrong. You may have better luck asking to shadow for a day, and then see where it goes from there.
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I strongly agree with WildZoo. I decided to go into veterinary medicine my junior year of college, so there was no way I could rack up a lot of hours shadowing compared to other people. I just started volunteering whatever time I could to animal shelters and racked about about 500 hours. I didn't think I'd be able to get in but I was accepted to two school. I think that me having a lower amount of experience made it harder, but I made up for it in my GPA and my GRE scores. Just try and get as much as possible, if the interviewers mention that you have a lower amount explain why you do, but don't think that you can't get in!
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Ways to get vet hours:
- Volunteer your time at an emergency clinic. You can work weird hours of the day, and on an emergency basis they are often a little shorthanded and happy to have an extra body.
- Request to participate in research work. That actually counts (I believe) as vet hours. If you're near a university, contact them to see if there is a research lab that is looking for people to work with animals.
Either way, you often do a lot of scut work (laundry, cleaning, dealing with poop etc.) as a volunteer in these clinics. It literally doesn't even matter. As long as you can work a **** job for free with a good attitude then you'll make an impression. It's the little stuff.
My other 2c: don't be over-eager or ask too many questions - people have jobs to do. But, if someone starts teaching you something or explaining a case, even if you have heard the info before, thank them and do NOT cut them off. Otherwise they'll never take the time to teach you again.
- Volunteer your time at an emergency clinic. You can work weird hours of the day, and on an emergency basis they are often a little shorthanded and happy to have an extra body.
- Request to participate in research work. That actually counts (I believe) as vet hours. If you're near a university, contact them to see if there is a research lab that is looking for people to work with animals.
Either way, you often do a lot of scut work (laundry, cleaning, dealing with poop etc.) as a volunteer in these clinics. It literally doesn't even matter. As long as you can work a **** job for free with a good attitude then you'll make an impression. It's the little stuff.
My other 2c: don't be over-eager or ask too many questions - people have jobs to do. But, if someone starts teaching you something or explaining a case, even if you have heard the info before, thank them and do NOT cut them off. Otherwise they'll never take the time to teach you again.
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Research work does not count as vet hours (at least according to the VMCAS website) - Experiences Research is its own separate category of experience, even if it is veterinary research (you might want to double-check with VMCAS though).
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Good to know! Times change.
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Yeah our year was the last year research = vet experience. IDK if I would've gotten into vet school if they had changed it sooner, most of my hours were research.
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I think it's unlikely the schools themselves actually changed how they evaluate research experience all at once. That's VMCAS categorization, but if schools valued veterinary experience in a research setting before that change, they probably still do.
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I sort of disagree with this. Warning a pre-vet about talking too much may do more harm than good. Granted, you have to keep a balance of showing interest and knowing when to just stop talking for a second. On the other hand, I've watched a lot of pre-vets doom themselves because they were too afraid of being a pest and therefore rarely talked/asked questions to further their learning. It very much comes across as if they are bored/not interested in what's going on, and many did not get offered more hours after giving them a few weeks to warm up. If you're giving your time for free, you deserve to learn and be taught and should take advantage of it. That being said, it's best not to ask a question during a euthanasia in front of a client, during a tense moment in surgery, etc.
Being able to read people/the situation is a great skill that I learned as a pre-vet and honestly will help you in vet school too. It never hurts to start with 'Is now good time to ask you a question about that case?' if you aren't sure.
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I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s a bad thing to warn them about talking too much. I’d say read the room more than anything. Dr is in middle of surgery and is struggling trying to find a fatty pedicle or dog just came in HBC and is actively bleeding out? Maaaay not be the best time to stop the doctor to ask questions. But I do like the “Is now a good time to ask you a question about the case?”.
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Good point!
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Is there a Banfield at your Petsmart? If so, they are great places to at least get your foot in the door with veterinary experience. I have been a vet assistant at one in my area for about 1.5 years, and having some good small animal tech experience from there helped me get my current volunteer gig with an equine/large animal vet. Yes, they’re corporate, and the quality of medicine is variable depending upon who is hired, but in my experience almost every vet is willing and wanting to give the best medicine they can. Banfields also pay pretty competitively - I was offered a full 5 dollars more per hour and extremely flexible scheduling as compared to a nearby private hospital.
Chat with the receptionist and get a feel for if you would be a good fit & if they are hiring for a VA position. All of my practice managers have been wonderfully helpful and flexible & actively want me to succeed and get into vet school.
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Banfield has a great student job program for veterinary students! But the application period for that has expired already. But yeah, I’m doing that this summer and they’re paying very well!Is there a Banfield at your Petsmart? If so, they are great places to at least get your foot in the door with veterinary experience. I have been a vet assistant at one in my area for about 1.5 years, and having some good small animal tech experience from there helped me get my current volunteer gig with an equine/large animal vet. Yes, they’re corporate, and the quality of medicine is variable depending upon who is hired, but in my experience almost every vet is willing and wanting to give the best medicine they can. Banfields also pay pretty competitively - I was offered a full 5 dollars more per hour and extremely flexible scheduling as compared to a nearby private hospital.
Chat with the receptionist and get a feel for if you would be a good fit & if they are hiring for a VA position. All of my practice managers have been wonderfully helpful and flexible & actively want me to succeed and get into vet school.
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Just seconding the shelter recommendation from @WildZoo - I was a non-traditional applicant, my background is in public health, and I was not in the position to work during regular hours or take a position as a tech (I had a more-than-fulltime job that I loved!). I got ALL of my clinical experience by volunteering at the low cost vaccine clinic at a local shelter. It was every other Sunday but I feel confident they would have let me come in another day had I wanted/needed. I was surprised how fast it added up and they were really jazzed to have a dedicated volunteer to help in the clinic. I supplemented with public health hours ("under" a vet) and I was up there in hours before I knew it.
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Their setup for vet students and the way they help new grads is one of the main reasons I’m working there, and why I envision myself going back after graduating. It’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but it serves a community purpose and really DOES make preventive care a strong standard. Enjoy your SJE! I know many doctors who’ve come out of the program & gotten their dream positions!
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I have some gripes with the corporate side of things and your experience can vary based on the market you're in (and like any clinic it really depends on your team as well) but from an experience perspective, Banfield is a good way to go. I wouldn't go back for various reasons, however I also don't regret the time I spent working for them. I learned so, so much. And yeah, the pay is pretty competitive.
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As a tech in Chicago I always heard terrible things but when I worked by U of I, I ended up working at one and thought they weren't all that bad. The doctor in charge was awesome!
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Yeah...I wasn't in the greatest market and had an idiot for a practice manager, so I got sick of everyone outside of the doctors I worked for and my fellow VA's. Absolutely adored my team. We probably bonded so strongly because of all the **** that the higher ups put us through.
The corporate brainwashing also tends to rub me the wrong way, and sometimes I think they lose sight of individualizing patient care (despite how great their preventative care model can be), but nonetheless it is a great place to get experience.
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I started off volunteering at a clinic over the summers and was doing the least desired jobs like mopping, sweeping, cleaning out cages, and wiping down exam tables quite a bit at first. Now I work there as a tech over breaks and can delegate the least desired jobs to the volunteers if I so desire (but I’m usually nice). 
My point is, the smallest things might lead to a really great experience. I think it impressed them that I happily did the dirty work and was later rewarded with additional tasks like assisting with surgery, recovery, xrays, etc. until I was a tech...with a nice paycheck. Just be patient with the whole process! You never know what might pan out.
My point is, the smallest things might lead to a really great experience. I think it impressed them that I happily did the dirty work and was later rewarded with additional tasks like assisting with surgery, recovery, xrays, etc. until I was a tech...with a nice paycheck. Just be patient with the whole process! You never know what might pan out.
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How are you approaching clinics to ask to spend time there? My advice:
- Focus on obtaining ONE day of SHADOWING experience - asking to volunteer and asking to do so for a committed period of time upfront may be turning people off.
- Print out a current resume with a brief cover letter explaining that you're interested in veterinary medicine and hoping to apply to vet school. Detail the experiences you already have.
- Wear something presentable and go in person to various clinics to give them your resume/cover letter. Smile. Be polite and friendly to whoever you meet there. Follow up with a phone call about a week later. Be persistent.
- If you are offered a day of shadowing, get out your presentable outfit again (doesn't hurt to bring a pair of scrubs), be punctual, smile/polite/friendly again to everyone there and be aware of your surroundings - not standing in the way of a door nor cowering against the wall silently.
A few extra points:
- Bring your lunch. That way you don't have to leave the clinic to go get food and you aren't sitting there starving the whole day. It might also give you the chance (depending on the schedule) to talk with someone in more depth about vet med.
- Presentable outfit doesn't include jeans. I know I'll probably get pinged fifty times for saying this, but I'm sticking with it. Imagine yourself being the vet and seeing appointments - khaki pants or even some slacks are a great way to appear more professional. (And sure, some vets wear jeans to work. Most do not.) No excessive jewelry/dangling things to get caught on stuff. Find a pair of comfortable shoes. I wear nice black Reebok sneakers to work with my Kohls dress pants - just don't show up in your beat up dirt holey old shoes. If they tell you to wear scrubs, that's fine - clean and matching are best. Comfort is important of course, but not at the expense of looking appropriate.
- If you aren't comfortable talking to strangers or asking questions, practice. It's always awkward when we have shadows that literally just stand there. I try to talk about what I'm doing/seeing but it's much easier when that person participates in a conversation.
- For goodness's sake, be polite and nice to everyone. If you're nasty to the receptionist or rude to the techs, they're going to tell the doc and/or office manager and you won't be back. Vet med is so focused on team work that it behooves you to make a good first impression.
- Like @Emily Faith says above, doing some of the more menial tasks (cleaning off the counters after use, tossing the towel in the laundry pile, etc) will really build you some good credit in everyone's eyes!
Hope this was helpful. Good luck with getting some hours!
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I would add to this don't wear leggings! It should go without saying, but sadly we did have at least one shadow show up in leggings where I worked. I love leggings too if I'm just going to the grocery store or studying at school on the weekends or whatever, but they're really unprofessional.
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Khakis and a nicer shirt were my go-to for shadowing. I looked presentable and not like a slob, and hey! It ended up turning into an assistant job!
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I would like to say I feel you. I asked over 5 places over the course of 2 months and most places outright said no unless they knew you personally unless I was applying for a tech spot, which wasn't possible with my career (as in family friend, even my animals' vet said no). I couldn't figure out why I was having such a hard time getting someone to agree to me shadowing either. I had professional resumes, called to ask for a good time to come in to discuss before just randomly showing up, and I was a high school teacher, not a random 16 year old. Many places told me outright over the phone that they never allow shadowing -odd, particularly considering I live in a busy and diverse city. My mom suggested I try an ER clinic and bam, instantly said yes, and here I am, a year and a half later, was accepted to 3/5 schools, and now I work for them (paid, woohoo!) On weekends. Don't give up if you're struggling with this, maybe just think about where you're asking, their case load (day practice might not necessarily need help) or if you could work part time as a way in. Best of luck!
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A lot of that likely has to do with liability. It's also possible they've had bad experiences with previous shadows or perhaps their doc(s) just aren't interested. Glad you found something that worked for you
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This may be a very specific example, but my current job place is a company that is both a boarding facility and hospital clinic. I got a job on the boarding side (entry level type job) and made it very clear that I need clinical experience at some point in the near future. I've been told that I am the next choice for an open assistant position, so I'm just playing the waiting game now. But the nice thing is that I'm still gaining animal experience and I'm not completely blind to what goes on in a vet clinic and I'm also getting to know some vets for possible LORs.
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I started by being an unpaid assistant at a veterinary hospital while I got my CVA certificate (300 hours volunteer). After that they wouldn't hit me because their staff was full and they were getting a new crop on unpaid assistants from the high school. But I lucking into a great job as a vet tech with an equine vet that travels to 9 states to see clients. He pays great and teaches me the entire time. My first summer he had me doing radiographs, floating teeth, and giving injections. I start with him for my second summer in three weeks! I found him through a Facebook ad a friend from another state had posted looking for a full time vet tech. I called him, told him I was looking to apply to vet school and was interested in equine medicine, gave him my experience and would like to shadow him. He set up an appointment and then offered to pay me every summer until I graduate vet school if I would like! Turns out he is an alumni of the school I am going to attend and plays polo like I do. Should be fun. Look everywhere. Never thought I'd get a job from something my mom saw on Facebook!
Also jeans are fine if you are working with an equine or large animal vet! I had to wear scrubs at the animal hospital. I'm going to try to shadow the emergency vet that treated my dog when she was hit by the car a few times this summer too.
Also jeans are fine if you are working with an equine or large animal vet! I had to wear scrubs at the animal hospital. I'm going to try to shadow the emergency vet that treated my dog when she was hit by the car a few times this summer too.
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There are many many ways to get your foot in the door and some of these have been mentioned already but not all:
1. Join your school's prevet program. Numerous clinics in the area send ads to my school's club because they have had great success with pre-vet students.
2. Are you checking craigslist ads? This is where I found my first, maybe, 4 jobs and I got into my first clinic through an ad that way, and by including that I am a pre vet student. It is an easy way to apply because you can essentially mass send out resumés... Lol
3. If you have a medical school/biomedical research nearby, there is likely a department of comparative medicine. Vets at universities in my experience have a lot more time and interest in training someone.
4. Apply as a kennel attendant-the work is not very glamorous but you can get to know everyone and pick up a VA position when one opens.
5. Look to nonprofits-shelters,wildlife departments,zoos,etc may have vet programs that require volunteers.
1. Join your school's prevet program. Numerous clinics in the area send ads to my school's club because they have had great success with pre-vet students.
2. Are you checking craigslist ads? This is where I found my first, maybe, 4 jobs and I got into my first clinic through an ad that way, and by including that I am a pre vet student. It is an easy way to apply because you can essentially mass send out resumés... Lol
3. If you have a medical school/biomedical research nearby, there is likely a department of comparative medicine. Vets at universities in my experience have a lot more time and interest in training someone.
4. Apply as a kennel attendant-the work is not very glamorous but you can get to know everyone and pick up a VA position when one opens.
5. Look to nonprofits-shelters,wildlife departments,zoos,etc may have vet programs that require volunteers.
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I definitely read that wrong and thought your poor dog had been hit multiple times...glad that’s not the case lol
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I read the same thing
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Ok, blame in on studying for too many tests. My brain is fried tonight! She only got hit once but the vet treated her multiple times because she chewed her incision open!
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My college does not have any prevet courses or clubs. Just so you know once you read the rest.
Hi everyone, hope you are all enjoying your summer break and are doing well. I have been volunteering at this specialty clinic for a month, 20 hours a week. A vet tech there is a college acquaintance of mine, who helped me volunteer at this clinic. I haven't had prior exposure to work, so this is a new thing for me. Today, the supervisor had a meeting with me to explain certain concerns that had been brought up to him. Basically, as a volunteer I need to lend extra hands in the cleaning, holding patients only when asked, taking the temp, he also asked what my learning style was like. Due to them hearing that my acquaintance knew me from college, they may have thought it was the vet tech program, when it was not. So he had to explain to some people that I was "very green" so far some have had patience to teach me how take proper temperature, how to hold the dogs, they've even asked me to look at surgeries. However, this was my first rookie mistake.
It did not cross my mind to ask the surgeon if it was okay for me to be in the surgery room with them, as it does get crowded. They also have a lot of externships rotating through, so they prefer to just have vet students in the surgery room. I understand this and was glad to have the opportunity to watch a few of their surgeries occur. But now I feel intimidated to ask the doctors if it would be okay with them, because the supervisor did tell me to just ask their anesthesiologist. Since she's the one who will be aware of the amount of people in a room. So today I asked her if it would be okay to watch after my meeting with the supervisor, she said sure but that I should also help as a volunteer. I began to explain the meeting with the supervisor but she was walking away so I stopped talking mid sentence. I know I shouldn't feel upset or discouraged because things like this happen in a workplace. In order to learn you need to make mistakes.
But how do I even begin to be a good volunteer? I unknowingly made mistakes that did not sit well with a few of the doctors there, including the anesthesiologist. I was only doing what the vet techs asked of me, and I did inform them to teach me before I attempted something. I'm just concerned that the surgeons won't be seeing my efforts because they're either in the surgery room or are too busy to speak with me. How do I even approach them to ask for the letter of recommendation down the line? Any advice will be helpful.
How many hours are sufficient before applying? I made a calculation and I would be at roughly 293 by August. I am also volunteering at an animal shelter, where I help walk the dogs every other sunday. I have been volunteering since October, have 74 hours. I know I won't be able to make it to the 1k hours. I'm currently in my undergrad, expected graduation date is in 2020. I'm planning to apply next year. Thanks for taking the time to read this and if I was not clear enough, please let me know what things I could add in future posts. Have a good summer and for those applying this year, good luck (but you don't need it because you're all awesome!).
Hi everyone, hope you are all enjoying your summer break and are doing well. I have been volunteering at this specialty clinic for a month, 20 hours a week. A vet tech there is a college acquaintance of mine, who helped me volunteer at this clinic. I haven't had prior exposure to work, so this is a new thing for me. Today, the supervisor had a meeting with me to explain certain concerns that had been brought up to him. Basically, as a volunteer I need to lend extra hands in the cleaning, holding patients only when asked, taking the temp, he also asked what my learning style was like. Due to them hearing that my acquaintance knew me from college, they may have thought it was the vet tech program, when it was not. So he had to explain to some people that I was "very green" so far some have had patience to teach me how take proper temperature, how to hold the dogs, they've even asked me to look at surgeries. However, this was my first rookie mistake.
It did not cross my mind to ask the surgeon if it was okay for me to be in the surgery room with them, as it does get crowded. They also have a lot of externships rotating through, so they prefer to just have vet students in the surgery room. I understand this and was glad to have the opportunity to watch a few of their surgeries occur. But now I feel intimidated to ask the doctors if it would be okay with them, because the supervisor did tell me to just ask their anesthesiologist. Since she's the one who will be aware of the amount of people in a room. So today I asked her if it would be okay to watch after my meeting with the supervisor, she said sure but that I should also help as a volunteer. I began to explain the meeting with the supervisor but she was walking away so I stopped talking mid sentence. I know I shouldn't feel upset or discouraged because things like this happen in a workplace. In order to learn you need to make mistakes.
But how do I even begin to be a good volunteer? I unknowingly made mistakes that did not sit well with a few of the doctors there, including the anesthesiologist. I was only doing what the vet techs asked of me, and I did inform them to teach me before I attempted something. I'm just concerned that the surgeons won't be seeing my efforts because they're either in the surgery room or are too busy to speak with me. How do I even approach them to ask for the letter of recommendation down the line? Any advice will be helpful.
How many hours are sufficient before applying? I made a calculation and I would be at roughly 293 by August. I am also volunteering at an animal shelter, where I help walk the dogs every other sunday. I have been volunteering since October, have 74 hours. I know I won't be able to make it to the 1k hours. I'm currently in my undergrad, expected graduation date is in 2020. I'm planning to apply next year. Thanks for taking the time to read this and if I was not clear enough, please let me know what things I could add in future posts. Have a good summer and for those applying this year, good luck (but you don't need it because you're all awesome!).
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I'm a little confused as to what the problems your supervisor brought up were, are they saying you need to help more with cleaning and less with restraint, taking temps, etc.? I would maybe clarify with your supervisor what exactly they expect you to be doing, it sounds like there may be a disconnect between them wanting you to do volunteer tasks whereas you of course want to observe the doctors and build a relationship with them. I would maybe see if you can start shadowing somewhere else, either instead of or in addition to this volunteer experience, where you would be able to get to know the doctors better and ask them questions. If this place really expects you to mainly clean for them for 20 hours a week that's asking an awful lot, but maybe I'm misunderstanding what their concerns were. Anyway, you're right that making mistakes is part of being a volunteer or employee, just try to learn from it and not make the same mistakes twice, but don't dwell on it too much or take criticism too personally.
I would say at least 500 vet hours would be competitive, more if your GPAs are low, but it would also be a good idea to look on the websites of the schools you plan on applying to for the average number of experience hours accepted applicants tend to have, or email the admissions office if it's not listed on their website. If you're able to keep up shadowing/volunteering during the school year and next summer, you should have a good amount of hours by the time you apply next year. It would also be a good idea to get some large animal shadowing experience as well for some variety. If you're set on getting a LOR from a doctor at this clinic, I would let them know now that you plan on applying to vet school and will need a LOR next year, so maybe they can start watching and interacting with you more closely.
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Before that day, I had been asking if anyone needed help with anything. They said no that they were fine, so I would just go into the surgery room to watch. One of those days there were two externship vet students, so I hung out with them while they were there. The days they have externships, it does get crowded because the anesthesiologist is there, two doctors, and a vet tech. The rooms are a bit small as well. I understand where they were coming from when the supervisor mentioned the externships part, however he also mentioned the internships? But I was told that internship students are there for 3 years. The other concern that was brought up to him was that I shouldn't be handling their medicine for patients. A vet tech (that happened to be my acquaintance) asked me to draw some medication out for a patient she was working on. She gave me the bottle and left me alone. I asked where she was because the anesthesiologist came up to me and was very irritated. I stayed in the same spot until the vet tech returned. To me, this was the biggest issue that occurred. I feel like there are only two doctors who would be okay with me watching surgeries.
This is what I thought initially and it was going well at first. As far as I'm aware, I'm their only volunteer. The vet assistants and vet technicians also help clean but they do have their own cleaning staff as well. I understand they want to see work ethic but you're right. I am there for a potential letter of recommendation. I will need to speak with the supervisor and with one of the two veterinarians that seemed comfortable with me being in the surgery rooms.
Thank you for your reply. I have another question, if in 2019 I do not get accepted what would I do about the letter of recommendations? Should I ask the doctor to submit it again for the following year?
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IMO if they are paying you, they can ask you to clean. Otherwise, the idea is for you to to shadow and learn so you can have some semblance of an idea of what a veterinarian does and if this is the career you want to pursue. If they can't allow you to observe, find another clinic.
Edit: When I was doing the pre-vet thing, I totally did a lot of cleaning as a "volunteer" BUT the veterinarian was good about letting me observe anything I wanted AND she ultimate gave me a job that summer. I just have a lot less patience for people who want to waste my time with meaningless jobs these days lol.
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I would have to agree that you should not be tasked with the responsibility of gathering or administering any meds to any patient. You have 80 hours of experience now, give or take. You are a volunteer. No one was supervising you. You could have innocently made a fatal mistake just out of ignorance because you're new to the field (not saying you would have, but think about it). In other words, you're a liability that isn't necessarily covered under the doctor's/clinics malpractice insurance. If anything, a tech or doctor should be breathing down your neck as you draw up and give a drug. It's not fair to you to be left alone with such a huge responsibility, either. It's definitely true that even the most experienced person can make a mistake (human nature), but I think it's far more likely for a brand new shadow to not fully understand the prescription, forget to flush air out of an IV line (or not even know to do it), etc.
You are there to learn/get experience, not just to get a letter. A letter of recommendation could come later, but focus on learning right now.
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Hey I am a petsmart groomer turned pre-vet student!!! The best thing about learning to groom is that 1. you will get TONS of animal experience hours, and 2. you will be able to pay your living costs while in school. I personally groom 7-8 dogs a day at about $54 per dog average and only work two days a week because I'm in class or volunteering at a vet the other days. I still make about $20k+ a year only working 2 days a week. And that's not including my tips!! Also I have volunteered/shadowed/worked for several different vet clinics now and seriously the doctors and techs will have so much less experience handling animals independently than you, it's hysterical. A ton of vets and techs don't know how to clip nails without cutting the quick, have never heard of a nail grinder or ear plucking powder, they knick skin while shaving for surgery even using low power trimmers and 5-in-1 blades.. As a groomer you handle a dog or cat all entirely on your own and learn how to safely perform services on them without being bit or harming them in a way that they just don't have time to teach in vet or tech school.
ALSO petsmart offers a scholarship for anyone working there and going to college. You can always apply for it. One of my friends got one and petsmart paid $3000 a year for her to go to school for communications. Not to mention... if your store has a Banfield Pet Hospital that is easy shadowing and getting to know the staff. Or find the nearest Banfield and tell them you work for petsmart. That's an easy in for shadowing hours. Like everyone on here is telling you shadowing hours and veterinary pre-reqs are the way to go. Check out the AAVMC site for all the prereqs, but otherwise good luck in grooming!!! It is an awesome thing to learn how to do and you can work all over the country with that skillset.
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You must be a real joy to work with. I don't think very highly of anyone who comes to a job with this kind of attitude. I have many doubts about your claims that a vet or tech wouldn't know what a nail grinder or ear powder is. That's ludicrous.
Btw, as a tech and soon to be DVM, I (and every DVM I've worked with) hate when groomers use powder. It cakes up in the ear every time and is more likely to block airflow and end up increasing moisture -> ear infection that I have to treat, directly caused by a groomer. Ear plucking also greatly increases inflammation/itching -> head shaking/scratching -> hematoma +/- ear infection. Most groomers I know have no idea that ear plucking/powder can be so harmful because they never see the cause and effect, and owners forget to tell them not to pluck/powder.
Also, nicking the skin/quicking a nail is something that happens to the best of groomers. Sounds like you need a dose of humble pie, my friend.
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Genuinely at every clinic I've worked/shadowed at the doctors AND techs have asked me to show them how to clip nails fast without quicking, how to use nail grinders, how we hold to do some stuff on our own. I have no attitude I'm just praising grooming, which is often looked down on! We all have different experiences sorry if I offended
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I say this gently...but just...be careful going into a clinic (or vet school) with this attitude. There’s a lot to learn!
1) If you haven’t quicked a nail, you aren’t cutting enough nails...and definitely a job I would be totally fine with groomers doing anyway. Can’t say I’d ever miss a nail trim if I never did one ever again.
2) plucking ears can cause a lot of irritation/inflam, so if anything the vet would rather your didn’t
2) As a prevet, how do you know what they do or do not teach in vet school? At my school animal handling (more importantly LOW STRESS handling) is a huge part of the curriculum...
Glad you’ve gotten a lot from grooming! Make sure to get a lot of veterinary experience too
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Even if you're not exaggerating in the least bit, how is it "hysterical" when someone comes to you for a tip to be more efficient? That's a very empowering moment and great opportunity to work on teaching skills that are an important part of being a vet.
Grooming isn't looked down on, it's actually recognized as a very necessary part of animal care. There are grooming practices that are looked down on such as the incessant need groomers feel to use powder/pluck or shaving dogs that shouldn't be shaved, etc. Seriously, there are ear cleaners out there that actually act to dry the ear that are soooo much better than powder. Plucking sucks all around and is super painful, it's the lazy way out of properly trimming an ear. I've fielded calls from groomers who scream at us for revealing to clients that powder/plucking is a bad thing. Using proper ear cleaning/drying/trimming methods takes more time than powder/pluck, and groomers try to get each animal done in the least amount of time possible. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but when cutting corners leads to an animal seeing me for an ear infection precisely 1 week post-grooming every month....
Btw, think of it this way: vets and techs don't go to school just so they can be good at grooming/cutting nails. Ideally, a vet or tech would never do any of the above because they're busier with more technically demanding tasks. The most shaving a tech should ever do is to prep for wound care/surgery. A vet shouldn't have to shave, they should be doing other things and show up when the patient is fully prepped. When I was an assistant, I could do a four-paw nail trim on a decently behaved animal in under a minute tops because I was doing so many every day. Now that I've been a tech and have been out of practice while in school, I know it would take me much longer.
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ok people... the internet does not communicate my tone.. I have no attitude I am so excited to learn so so so so much more at veterinary school.. I am just speaking to personal experience. I've been at five different clinics and at every single one every single staff member did not know about nail grinding, and the vast majority regularly quicked nails like there was no alternative. Ears... it's back and forth every doctor I've ever worked with. Some say we should be plucking more, some say never pluck. I personally only pluck if it's greasy or matted, and adding powder makes it easier to grip and pluck in one motion, not multiple little plucks like I've seen some people do. All I'm saying is that grooming is under-appreciated and there are some great advantages to having a background in it! Genuinely, no attitude.Totally humbled. Just standing by my first profession which gets a bad rap!
PS doctors & groomers need to get along more.. A lot of doctors are quick to say groomers probably injured dogs, a lot of groomers won't take their dogs to the vets. We should all try to get along!!
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Curious about this because the doctors I work with will ask us techs/assistants to pluck ears using powder fairly often in our ear infection cases. Often these are the poodle/doodle type dogs with tons of hair in the ear canal that holds moisture and causes an ear infection, then you can’t even medicate with all the hair in the way. We don’t do it when the ear isn’t infected, but I didn’t realize the powder itself can cause problems. (I do know plucking leads to inflammation/itching, but so does infection, so I guess it’s weighing the two bad things?)
I think it’s very inaccurate to say “a ton” of vets don’t know how to cut nails without cutting the quick or have never heard of ear powder or a nail grinder, it’s just not true especially in small animal GP which is what it sounds like your clinics have been.
BUT you’re right that I’m impressed what the groomers can manage on their own without someone to help restrain. We have this shiba who is a freak about nail trims, usually takes three of us to restrain, try to distract with head taps or treats, and clip nails to get it done, and our groomer just does it alone no fights and no issues (I think some of this is difference in location/set up with the grooming restraint thing but still impressive and I wouldn’t have expected it from this dog to work)
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It's hysterical in a sense that I worked for vets who had been veterinarians for 20+ years and when they went to do nail trims they would just already grab the quick-stop and make every nail bleed, require two people to hold the dogs on the ground to do it.. Where I worked as a groomer there was a vet clinic in the back of the store I was in connected to us and the techs and doctors toootally talked down to us and just berated us like we were stupid. Seeing that they can't even clip nails yeah made me laugh. All I'm saying is that having a background in grooming will only make you a better doctor, not that anyone in the veterinary profession is somehow lesser for not being good at that. And the ear thing varies doctor to doctor, state to state, person to person. I personally only pluck if the ear is matted or especially greasy, and I have learned to do it in a easy one pull way myself that dogs barely even flinch for. Yes I use a 10 or 40 in the ear to prevent hair build-up, but actually at some salons I worked at it was not allowed to shave the ear for risk of injury. And then vets would be mad that clients were asking them to shave the ears. It really needs a clear consensus but I've worked in three states, two countries, and it varies all over the place what pet owners, groomers, and veterinarians opinions are on ear plucking.
I work at a surgical center as a volunteer and yes it's the techs that shave. They had five in one blades and didn't even know they could change the length setting on them. Never had even heard of clipper-vacs and would have one tech vacuuming while the other clipped. I'm thinking we would all benefit if vets and groomers tried to understand each other better instead of getting aggressive/defensive toward eachother!
nothin but respect for the veterinary professions, I'm hoping to become a DVM one day too!
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I'm not saying you shouldn't remove the hair, I'm saying plucking is not a good thing. I use mini clippers or even human nose/ear shavers to clip ear hair, it just depends on the size of the dog and severity of any matting. Clippers get the big chunks of hair that you're really concerned about, a dog's ear doesn't have any reason to be plucked completely hair free. Some people use scissors but that scares me. I find clipping is significantly more humane, faster and easier to do than ripping hair out of a dog with already super painful ears. Idk about you guys, but I suffered through many ear infections as a kid and can't imagine someone sticking their fingers or hemostats into my ear and ripping out hair. Some of these dogs come with ears so painful that they can't chew their food.
The problem with powder is that while it does absorb moisture, it also cakes up while doing so, and the cakes sit there until the next cleaning. It causes physical obstructions that block airflow. It solves the moisture problem at the time, but later leads to more moisture in the ear, then the cakes of powder get super goopy with ear wax/infected ear exudate, and the problem compounds itself. I've pulled what looked/felt like rocks of powder out of post-grooming infected ears. Ear cleaners with drying agents (such as salicylic acid) are far more preferable/ideal. They clean out debris, but the acid also acts to actually dry the ear (think about what happens to your skin when you use the higher concentrations of salicylic acid found in acne products). They also have antimicrobial ingredients that work alongside any medication you prescribe. Another thing to mention is that powder is a physical obstruction that prevents medications from fully working. It's like if you put gauze on a wound, then applied TAB (maybe not that dramatic, but you get the idea). People use powder because it's cheaper than ear cleaner.
Edit: The only time I use hemostats in an ear (other than foreign body removal probably, which I haven't gotten to do yet!) is if I worry about some hair falling into the ear canal. Then I'll grasp it with hemostats and use clippers to cut the hair down. That only works if you have a restrainer and a dog ear big enough to accommodate that....but also some ears are so swollen that you can't get a CTA in them to begin with so hair isn't likely to in anyways
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a ton of the ones I worked for. I honestly can only speak from personal experience. And I've only worked for much older vets... in their like 50s, 60s, my current one is hitting his 70s! Yes I did general practice and surgical specialty. The ear thing when I started I was told pluck every dog's ears.. then I saw a TECA surgery and learned that honestly routine plucking can be bad. I shave the hair at the base of the ear and pluck only what grows from within the canal, which becomes clear once you've shaved the actual base with a very tight blade like a 30 or 40. if I can grab and pull no powder I'll do that, but if I need I will put some powder in, put a hemostat/clamp parallel and twist until the tool is wrapped once around and the pull once. Genuinely only one in like every 20 will bark or whine when I do it. And it's poodles & cockers who always have the worst
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I do clipper with like a 30 or 40 at the base. So then the hair that is growing from within the canal is exposed. That hair comes out super easy and the dogs don't even react. Genuinely I wish I had a video but I will see girls I work with plucking ears and dogs scream and then I show them how to identify which hair is the inner-ear hair and isolate it and DING! the dog doesn't even realize you are doing it when you are plucking the right stuff. And the only cases I use powder in are when the hair it greasy, it will help your forceps grab the hair better so it can just be one pull not little plucks. Then you clean the ear out afterwards so there's no powder left in. I mean we clean every dogs ears with ear cleaner also, but the powder is simply for grabbing greasy hair.
But actually I've been wondering this about my current salon and maybe you'd know.. They use this stuff called "nagayu" treatment, which is just sodium bicarbonate tablets basically and the owner of the salon swears you can rinse the ear directly with it.. I never put water directly into a dog's ear. Only put cleaning agents on cotton ball and wipe the ear with it. Can she really just keep spraying these "co2 tablets" into dog's ears? (there haven't been any ear infection complaints.. and some people even swear it solved a consistent ear infection problem they were having)
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These are not the same thing.
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No, the dog definitely realizes, trust me. And you may use the powder just for grabbing the hair, but not every single person is doing that. Some people dump powder in the canals for drying. Some people just use it for the hair, but don't clean the ear as thoroughly as they think they are. You just said you just use a cotton ball and wipe the ear, so if that really is all you do, it's definitely not thorough. A thorough ear cleaning involved CTAs and pouring a bit of cleaner into the canal itself. Now you might better understand why I cringe when people talk about powder. The only places I've ever known to do a real thorough ear cleaning is a vet clinic. I'm not saying to run out and start using CTAs at a groomer's, you can potentially cause harm with them if you're not careful/trained...but you can imagine that any water/shampoo that may have gotten into the canal will still be there, as well as any powder that found it's way into the canal. This adds up, especially for the pups that are groomed monthly.
I wipe the external ear of my dog/cats when I'm doing my weekly stuff, but anytime I bathe I make sure to at least get a little bit of a drying cleaner in their canals and let them shake out any excess. You don't have to irrigate a healthy ear necessarily, but it helps to dry out any residual moisture. I don't use q-tips at home because they're too short. If I had CTAs and a restrainer I would probably do a more through clean every month of whenever I bathe them.
I've never heard of these tablets but a quick google search is telling me that these are designed for a dog's coat, not it's ears
Although the website I'm looking at (as well as some of the Amazon products) also claim that the CO2 tablets cause CO2 to cross the skin, enter the bloodstream, and increase blood flow. I swear people will believe anything you tell them...it just sounds like a gimmicky product to me. If someone is crushing/breaking a tablet and adding water, that's obviously not okay especially if it fizzes.
