Viewpoint

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USAFdoc said:
At least in the military primary care world,anyone entering will find a substandard healthcare system with inadequate staffing and experience and docs with no authority (your clinic being run by non physicians and TRICARE) and you (the doc) will not even be an invite to the decision making meetings. You will find out that they do not need or want your input because they have you for 4 more years. Many of us have read about how in some civilian areas, primary care is in trouble....well, the USAF has joined that crowd. So, if you are heading into one of the USAF clinics, get ready for a bumpy ride and some casualties (your patients and your career). Do your best to enjoy,and realize you are doing a great service for your patients, but the military in doing a disservice to continue to look the other way and ignore the realities of our clinics).
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FYI; Daton Daily News 1997-98; two of their journalist won the Purlitzer Prize that year after they did a 7 day expose on how UNSAFE military medicine is. Do a google search on this one. Sad to say that many of the same things are still status quo.
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the negative 1 said:
This is a great thread and has provided a lot of information for me. I have applied for the Army's HSPS scholarship and have just started hearing about interviews for admission in 2005. My first interview is actually at USUHS and it is my hope that I am accepted there.

Before I started browsing SDN, I had already spoken to a lot of different people about their military experiences. I feel certain that military life is right for me and I have no apprehension whatsoever about making the necessary commitment. It meshes so well with my attitude and way of life.

However, I am not blind to the negatives associated with the military. Nothing is perfect and there will always be risks involved in whatever I do. That said, I appreciate all the time people have taken to present both sides of military medicine.
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keep that attitude. I hope for the best in your military med career, but warn you that you may change your mind about committing your life to this military health care system when you get to see it face to face.
 
USAFdoc said:
keep that attitude. I hope for the best in your military med career, but warn you that you may change your mind about committing your life to this military health care system when you get to see it face to face.
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bump
 
Homunculus said:
ya know, this thread is stickied so bumping isn't necessary :p . . . unless of course you're looking to post pad. :cool:

--your friendly neighborhood +pad+ ing caveman
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there are two D's in "padding" there, smart guy. Id think youd be sure to not miss double D's, but then again, y'aint so bright I hear....
 
Spang said:
Here it is:

http://www.pulitzer.org/year/1998/national-reporting/works/index.html
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the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

While I was in med school the 2 major family medical issues that came up both had major problems/complications with private hospitals/physicians.

I almost had to deliver my son as an MS3 because the one OB on call on at a large private hospital was tending to a pregnant staff nurse in another room and our "OB Nurse" was a trainee who couldn't recognize a baby unless it fell out by her feet. We had less than 3 minutes, after prompting the nurse of the upcoming delivery, to the time the baby popped out. OB had time to don gloves.

Second issue. Wife gets wrist surgery by a fellowship trained ortho, who button holed a sc suture. PA in office pulls on it as hard has he can causing immense pain and less than ideal wound healing. Had I been a lawsuit junky, I'm sure we could have gain thousands of dollars due to the pain/suffering and permanent physical disfiguration associated with this relatively simple procedure.

Sounds like similiar health care delivery problems in the above article. 2 for 2 complication rate. Since coming back onto active duty we have had no problems with 1 delivery and a couple of minor procedures requiring general anesthesia.
Just skimmed the article, but many of the problems from the 90s have been addressed.

It's late and my grammar is bad. Time for bed!
 
r90t said:
the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

While I was in med school the 2 major family medical issues that came up both had major problems/complications with private hospitals/physicians.

I almost had to deliver my son as an MS3 because the one OB on call on at a large private hospital was tending to a pregnant staff nurse in another room and our "OB Nurse" was a trainee who couldn't recognize a baby unless it fell out by her feet. We had less than 3 minutes, after prompting the nurse of the upcoming delivery, to the time the baby popped out. OB had time to don gloves.

Second issue. Wife gets wrist surgery by a fellowship trained ortho, who button holed a sc suture. PA in office pulls on it as hard has he can causing immense pain and less than ideal wound healing. Had I been a lawsuit junky, I'm sure we could have gain thousands of dollars due to the pain/suffering and permanent physical disfiguration associated with this relatively simple procedure.

Sounds like similiar health care delivery problems in the above article. 2 for 2 complication rate. Since coming back onto active duty we have had no problems with 1 delivery and a couple of minor procedures requiring general anesthesia.
Just skimmed the article, but many of the problems from the 90s have been addressed.

It's late and my grammar is bad. Time for bed!
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the grass sure seems alot greener over here on the side I am on, the civilian side.
 
I am glad the transition to private practice went well and you are having more family time as well as financial stability. That is what we all eventually want. The military is a job/career, but not my life.

I think FP clinics vary from service to service and commands. We had pts scheduled 0800-1140, then 1300-1545, every 15 minutes. No PT requirements, except on your own at lunch. We did have the "do more with less" thing going on. We also had about 1/2 the staff physicians being civilian FPs that took the brunt of the patient panels and daily appointments, so the military staff could do inpatient, teach, procedures, etc. Our staff was also very senior, all being O-4 to O-6, with about 1/2 with prior line experience. We had a physician department head, a nurse division officer who had no influenc on clinical matters and a civilian "practice manager" for doing our monthly schedules. Our CO, and O-6, was very visible, keen on morale issues, put the enlisted in the spotlight, and is a good man. His command presence and leadership may have been what made the difference. When I was a line officer some ships could be compared to a malignant general surgery program, where everyone was overworked and no one happy and one pier over, another command seemed that nothing could go wrong at, even after a bad incident.

I just committed myself to 2015 :eek: with my FTOS contract this past year. I almost puked when I saw that number, as it doesn't give me options for the next decade to look over any fences. With prior service, that puts me at 22+ years. I am the type of physician the military doesn't want to have around. 4 free years of active duty credit while FTOS, then go over 20 in his training payback time. Most of my peers do their payback, then get out ASAP, as will I, but above 20 years mark.

I wish you the best!

Rob
 
r90t said:
I am glad the transition to private practice went well and you are having more family time as well as financial stability. That is what we all eventually want. The military is a job/career, but not my life.

I think FP clinics vary from service to service and commands. We had pts scheduled 0800-1140, then 1300-1545, every 15 minutes. No PT requirements, except on your own at lunch. We did have the "do more with less" thing going on. We also had about 1/2 the staff physicians being civilian FPs that took the brunt of the patient panels and daily appointments, so the military staff could do inpatient, teach, procedures, etc. Our staff was also very senior, all being O-4 to O-6, with about 1/2 with prior line experience. We had a physician department head, a nurse division officer who had no influenc on clinical matters and a civilian "practice manager" for doing our monthly schedules. Our CO, and O-6, was very visible, keen on morale issues, put the enlisted in the spotlight, and is a good man. His command presence and leadership may have been what made the difference. When I was a line officer some ships could be compared to a malignant general surgery program, where everyone was overworked and no one happy and one pier over, another command seemed that nothing could go wrong at, even after a bad incident.

I just committed myself to 2015 :eek: with my FTOS contract this past year. I almost puked when I saw that number, as it doesn't give me options for the next decade to look over any fences. With prior service, that puts me at 22+ years. I am the type of physician the military doesn't want to have around. 4 free years of active duty credit while FTOS, then go over 20 in his training payback time. Most of my peers do their payback, then get out ASAP, as will I, but above 20 years mark.

I wish you the best!

Rob
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the last base I was at lacked everything you just mentioned, from teaching to having a scheduler etc......it really was a "pit" and after having recently met (through this site) some docs there before me, it has been a "pit" for a decade or more. As stated in a previous thread; 100% of docs have separated at first chance after being stationed there (except I think thre is one doc that stayed in under the promise to go ADMIN and not do patient care anymore).
This is similar to other USAF bases, but sound very different from your experience. I guess if I had been at your base I would still be in uniform. :)
 
USAFdoc said:
the last base I was at lacked everything you just mentioned, from teaching to having a scheduler etc......it really was a "pit" and after having recently met (through this site) some docs there before me, it has been a "pit" for a decade or more. As stated in a previous thread; 100% of docs have separated at first chance after being stationed there (except I think thre is one doc that stayed in under the promise to go ADMIN and not do patient care anymore).
This is similar to other USAF bases, but sound very different from your experience. I guess if I had been at your base I would still be in uniform. :)
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It is not a pit, it is a hell hole.
 
GMO_52 said:
Our more senior members have made the point in a couple of threads that while they are the most negative about military medicine, they are also the most experienced. Both implicitly and explicitly, they are stating that their views should therefore be given more weight. While that would be valid if they were a true representation of the views of most military staff physicians, I do not believe that they are.
There are not many places in the military in which one can voice these sorts of negative opinions (hence militarymd's appropriate desire to stay anonymous) and therefore, they are quite active in what is really a student forum. Those staff physicians who are overall positive about their military experience simply a) don't know about this forum and b) share their opinions openly with students in the typical setting. I have a problem with the way these negative opinions are being characterized as "attending opinions" because, there are a lot of staff, only a few reside here, and they happen to be those individuals who need a forum like this to be able to honestly express their views.
OK, I feel better now. Back to the land of stuffy noses and well-woman exams.
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This forum is overly represented by negative posters b/c of the above reasons. It is interesting to point out those physicians who had a "difficult times" in the military will be motivated to post here. Not because they want to help students (they think they do*) but they hate the military-- "post tramatic military syndrome." Their judgment has been clouded by hate for the military medicine.

Despite my encouragement my friends who left the military are reluctant to post their experiences here. They told me that they left the service because they served their time and it was time to move on...Some negatives were (low pay, deployments, paper work, poor adminstrative support). However, the primarily reason was that they carried out their duty and wanted the stability in life...

My military attendings clearly think I am spending too much time here and they warned that I may be getting more work to keep my mind more occupied.

I urge the medical students to seek the opinions of your current active military physicians from your interested branch of service.
 
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haujun said:
This forum is overly represented by negative posters b/c of the above reasons. It is interesting to point out those physicians who had a "difficult times" in the military will be motivated to post here. Not because they want to help students (they think they do*) but they hate the military-- "post tramatic military syndrome." Their judgment has been clouded by hate for the military medicine.

Despite my encouragement my friends who left the military are reluctant to post their experiences here. They told me that they left the service because they served their time and it was time to move on...Some negatives were (low pay, deployments, paper work, poor adminstrative support). However, the primarily reason was that they carried out their duty and wanted the stability in life...

My military attendings clearly think I am spending too much time here and they warned that I may be getting more work to keep my mind more occupied.

I urge the medical students to seek the opinions of your current active military physicians from your interested branch of service.
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You're wrong....no...you're DEAD WRONG.

I served with pride. I look back on my experiences with pride. I wish I could have done more to serve those who deserve the MOST, but I realize that is impossible in military medicine.

I live in an area with many AD and veterans, and I frequently bring up my service and chat with all of my patients...and share war/sea stories..because I am proud of having taken care of active duty military members.

However, I think military medicine sucks right now....I want it to be better....Change from within is not possible unless the leaders realize there is a problem. The only way that will happen is if there AREN"t any more people signing up.
 
militarymd said:
You're wrong....no...you're DEAD WRONG.


However, I think military medicine sucks right now....I want it to be better....Change from within is not possible unless the leaders realize there is a problem. The only way that will happen is if there AREN"t any more people signing up.
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Thats interesting, so you admit that you actively want to hurt the armed forces, and you believe that the current wars are not enough of an impetous for change? You obviously understand the further damage to the troops that a severe physician shortage will cause, and believe that your crusade is the way to bring about systemic change?
 
haujun said:
This forum is overly represented by negative posters b/c of the above reasons. It is interesting to point out those physicians who had a "difficult times" in the military will be motivated to post here. Not because they want to help students (they think they do*) but they hate the military-- "post tramatic military syndrome." Their judgment has been clouded by hate for the military medicine.
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Try to imagine that it might be possible to have a rational and well-informed dislike of the present state of military medicine, and that being willing to express that dislike is not necessarily for want of better things to do, but rather to offer a counterpoint to the messages put forth by the paid messengers of the services, their recruiters, who do not know, or will not say, and are not obliged to be open and honest. I, for one, have nothing to gain by posting here. I think the same is true for all the former medical officers who post here, whatever their opinions (I wish a forum had existed when I was considering taking my contract.)

You seem to suggest that those with positive experiences are unwilling to post (why?) and that for some reason, only those with negative opinions bother to post. The last time I checked, this forum was open to anyone willing to sign up. If you find those with negative opinions to also be more numerous perhaps there is a valid reason for that. Sorry to say, the numbers are not required to be balanced to suit your particular taste.

Despite my encouragement my friends who left the military are reluctant to post their experiences here. They told me that they left the service because they served their time and it was time to move on...Some negatives were (low pay, deployments, paper work, poor adminstrative support). However, the primarily reason was that they carried out their duty and wanted the stability in life...
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Do you doubt them, then? "Stability" could mean many things, like keeping a spouse happy, or children in a chosen community or school, or yourself in a desirable training program. It is my opinion that the military does not do a very good job respecting those important considerations, and that sacrifices and difficult assignments are not conscienciously recognized and rewarded. So the truth should be told about how things really are: if you work hard and make sacrifices for the services, you shouldn't expect to be rewarded. If you can live with that, fine. If that makes the military a less worthwhile opportunity, then so be it.

What I can't abide is the idea that the military medical bureaucracy should be able to do as it pleases without anyone being able to tell the truth about them publicly, or being able to criticize them, and their being able to wrap themselves in the flag and suggest that their critics are somehow less than loyal citizens. If that is where you are coming from, we will never agree.

My military attendings clearly think I am spending too much time here and they warned that I may be getting more work to keep my mind more occupied.
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Your job. Your attendings.

I urge the medical students to seek the opinions of your current active military physicians from your interested branch of service.
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Absolutely. Talk to everyone you can. Active duty, former active duty, retired. I suspect that there is a lot more information conveyed to medical students than ever finds its way to these forums, as it should be. I think a lot of that information isn't painting the services in a light they would prefer, and the recruitment numbers are beginning to show the effect. That ill-will was a long time in the making. And it won't likely be changing soon.
 
GWUgrad76 said:
Thats interesting, so you admit that you actively want to hurt the armed forces, and you believe that the current wars are not enough of an impetous for change? You obviously understand the further damage to the troops that a severe physician shortage will cause, and believe that your crusade is the way to bring about systemic change?
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Short term versus Long Term goals.......
 
militarymd said:
You're wrong....no...you're DEAD WRONG.

I served with pride. I look back on my experiences with pride. I wish I could have done more to serve those who deserve the MOST, but I realize that is impossible in military medicine.

I live in an area with many AD and veterans, and I frequently bring up my service and chat with all of my patients...and share war/sea stories..because I am proud of having taken care of active duty military members.

However, I think military medicine sucks right now....I want it to be better....Change from within is not possible unless the leaders realize there is a problem. The only way that will happen is if there AREN"t any more people signing up.
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Okay we can agreed on that you served with pride and you think that the military is impossible and sucks. Rather difficult to read your posts without encountering you emotion beween the lines. Again you "might" be suffering from post tramatic military synd...
But do you have problem with me recommending future medical students to talk to CURRENT MILITARY PHYSICIANS who may know more about current state of their respective military medicine b/c as I recalled you got out few years ago from the NAVY. Although you are all mighty from your wisdom your experience as a military physician still represents just one experience in the Navy as a gas man at couple duty stations...
Your judgement to improve the military medicine is not correct, but rather shallow. If the HPSP/USUHS ever reach that critical level...(unlikely)... those leaders will simply increase the monetay benefits for the attendings and the HPSP applicants. Hence no true improvement will come from here. As I mentioned earlier in the thread and your response.."I will stay in 350K)...This unique HPSP program (which does not exist elsewhere in the world) will continue to attract the medical students for economics reasons.
 
haujun said:
Okay we can agreed on that you served with pride and you think that the military is impossible and sucks. Rather difficult to read your posts without encountering you emotion beween the lines. Again you "might" be suffering from post tramatic military synd...
But do you have problem with me recommending future medical students to talk to CURRENT MILITARY PHYSICIANS who may know more about current state of their respective military medicine b/c as I recalled you got out few years ago from the NAVY. Although you are all mighty from your wisdom your experience as a military physician still represents just one experience in the Navy as a gas man at couple duty stations...
Your judgement to improve the military medicine is not correct, but rather shallow. If the HPSP/USUHS ever reach that critical level...(unlikely)... those leaders will simply increase the monetay benefits for the attendings and the HPSP applicants. Hence no true improvement will come from here. As I mentioned earlier in the thread and your response.."I will stay in 350K)...This unique HPSP program (which does not exist elsewhere in the world) will continue to attract the medical students for economics reasons.
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I have also encouraged applicants to talk to active duty docs. That way they can get the real scoop.

I resigned my commission in July of 2004. I still keep in touch with people who are AD...I know what's going on....I just recruited someone who spent 8 months in Iraq to join me.....I KNOW WHAT's GOING ON.

I am in contact with an internist who is heading to IRaq right now...and then coming to my town to set up practice...so I'm not as out of touch as you may think.....I believe IM counts as primary care????

The military will never pay some one 350,000 a year, so that's not going to be the fix...although that is not a high salary in private practice, so it is foolish to sign for economic reasons.
 
militarymd said:
The military will never pay some one 350,000 a year, so that's not going to be the fix.
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Surprizingly enough, the military is willing to pay someone that much money. Our leadership, in their infinite wisdom, hired a cvilian contract surgeon for $30k per month. Of course, it didn't matter that the AD surgeons that were there were barely scraping out any cases. They thought that since one of these completely underutilized surgeons was getting deployed that they needed someone to fill in while he was gone.

So...30k per month...guess how many cases the contract surgeon did in 3 months? Drum roll, please...1 hernia and 3 lipomas. Our tax dollars at work!
 
hmmm
in the AF hospital I worked for the last 5 years I don't think our radiation oncologists took a lot of night time and weekend call. I didn't see them anyways... however... in urology you do take call, come in and operate and admit patients.... so when your hospital cuts your manning and deploys leaving you with one urologist then asks you to take every night call for 5 months it gets real old... if I were a resident it would be illegal to work me that hard.... so you can say what you want about civilian medicine but nobody forces you into months of every night call. The people forcing me to take call were a physical therapist and an ER physician with command... I don't think they took a lot of call either.
 
former military said:
hmmm
in the AF hospital I worked for the last 5 years I don't think our radiation oncologists took a lot of night time and weekend call. I didn't see them anyways... however... in urology you do take call, come in and operate and admit patients.... so when your hospital cuts your manning and deploys leaving you with one urologist then asks you to take every night call for 5 months it gets real old... if I were a resident it would be illegal to work me that hard.... so you can say what you want about civilian medicine but nobody forces you into months of every night call. The people forcing me to take call were a physical therapist and an ER physician with command... I don't think they took a lot of call either.
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Man, they really raped you. We had one Urologist at Offut, who was acutally happy for a while, but he NEVER took every night call. HE was on at the most every 3rd night, and everything else got sent downtown on the nights we was not on. I am not surprised that some idiot commander did that to you, because nothing I read about being abused by the miltiary surprises me anymore.
 
I wonder how the military can afford to pay contractors 30,000 a month, but can't pay AD the proper amount of money.


For 30,000 a month plus benefits, I probably would have stayed and gutted it through....and tried to do as good a job as possible.
 
militarymd said:
I wonder how the military can afford to pay contractors 30,000 a month, but can't pay AD the proper amount of money.


For 30,000 a month plus benefits, I probably would have stayed and gutted it through....and tried to do as good a job as possible.
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The simple answer is the color of money. Money is allocated into very specific pots and it is difficult to change the color. Money for pay of AD members is very different than contract dollars.
 
GMO_52 said:
Our more senior members have made the point in a couple of threads that while they are the most negative about military medicine, they are also the most experienced. Both implicitly and explicitly, they are stating that their views should therefore be given more weight. While that would be valid if they were a true representation of the views of most military staff physicians, I do not believe that they are.
There are not many places in the military in which one can voice these sorts of negative opinions (hence militarymd's appropriate desire to stay anonymous) and therefore, they are quite active in what is really a student forum. Those staff physicians who are overall positive about their military experience simply a) don't know about this forum and b) share their opinions openly with students in the typical setting. I have a problem with the way these negative opinions are being characterized as "attending opinions" because, there are a lot of staff, only a few reside here, and they happen to be those individuals who need a forum like this to be able to honestly express their views.
OK, I feel better now. Back to the land of stuffy noses and well-woman exams.
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Usually I stay out of post like this, however here is my $0.02
1. Me: 23 years USAF, enlisted (aircraft electronics), USUHS 1997, Flight Surgeon F-15, now USAF Radiologist (did civilian residency).
2. Military has good and bad points, you decide what you can put up with.
3. Civilian has good and bad points (I moonlight alot and its not always "all that". I see FPs who are great and ones who scare the hell out of me, same as miliatry medicine)
4. If you join for money your a ***** (civilian pays much more) and you will hate your time in.
5. The pace of deployment changes over time (yes today it sucks)
6. If you still join, thank you, if you don't like it when your in get out asap. You can also try to change things for the better, but you may not be able to. Serve your time and do a good job, if you can't do that sit down and shut up.
7. People can say they are anything they want too on this forum, it doesn't mean they are... Some people post here because they want to help you (positive and negative) and some to get back at the military they hate. I can't tell the difference sometimes and I doubt most of you can.
8. Live your own life, make mistakes, learn from them, and then go one and let go of the past.
 
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So I started this thread over 2 years ago with the intention of trying to keep every other thread from being hijacked into a "why military medicine is all f-ed up" debate. That didn't work, so our trusty moderator did the same with his pro and con threads. That didn't work and this forum continues to repeat the same posts over and over without anyone actually saying anything new. We've jumped the shark boys. Later.
 
GMO_52 said:
So I started this thread over 2 years ago with the intention of trying to keep every other thread from being hijacked into a "why military medicine is all f-ed up" debate. That didn't work, so our trusty moderator did the same with his pro and con threads. That didn't work and this forum continues to repeat the same posts over and over without anyone actually saying anything new. We've jumped the shark boys. Later.
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and I've said before...

airway
breathing
circulation
 
GMO_52 said:
So I started this thread over 2 years ago with the intention of trying to keep every other thread from being hijacked into a "why military medicine is all f-ed up" debate. That didn't work, so our trusty moderator did the same with his pro and con threads. That didn't work and this forum continues to repeat the same posts over and over without anyone actually saying anything new. We've jumped the shark boys. Later.
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Old military doctors don't die. They just come on this message forum and b**** and complain. This place has become an alcoholics anonymous like support group for x-military physicians!
 
GMO_52 said:
The whole point of my original post is that there are happy attendings out there, that many get out for financial reasons not because the job is so horrible and that negative views were beginning to take over the forum to the point that they painted too extreme a picture.
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Over the last 2 years, my ranks on this forum has tripled, while the number of happy attendings have.......ehhh....ummm....now...let me count again.....well.........I guess there's igd, if he is a physician at all.....
 
I get quite a few people in my office that claim to have had long, fulfilling military career. With a few exceptions here and there, they fall in to three basic categories:

1) they were all REMFs that went from Hawaii, to Panama, to some BS stateside post like Ft. Harrison in Indianapolis, then to NATO HQ. Yeah, it probably was a great deal for them

2) alcoholic, divorced, GS-13 still hanging around post, kids hate 'em cause they don't know 'em due to years of deployment.

3) beta-blockers and benzo Rx at full dose, suppressing the overwhelming panic and frustration induced by being forced to return to civilian life, loss of power and "status". Realization nobody is going to kiss their ass because of their rank, or deployment risk.
 
IgD said:
Old military doctors don't die. They just come on this message forum and b**** and complain. This place has become an alcoholics anonymous like support group for x-military physicians!
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Looks like your brain transplant was fully rejected. Your back to being in the fantasy world of the fully functional military medical system which you will continue to have a hand in screwing up even further. You are truly a *****!
 
Galo said:
Looks like your brain transplant was fully rejected. Your back to being in the fantasy world of the fully functional military medical system which you will continue to have a hand in screwing up even further. You are truly a *****!
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A bit harsh. We need a few like IgD. It makes the reality you guys speak of more real when he injects his idealist fantasies.
 
militarymd said:
Over the last 2 years, my ranks on this forum has tripled, while the number of happy attendings have.......ehhh....ummm....now...let me count again.....well.........I guess there's igd, if he is a physician at all.....
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You can count me as a happy attending. Not a Pollyanna, but happy (most days).
 
You wouldn't mind giving me a urine sample for tox screen now would you ? :p


NavyFP said:
You can count me as a happy attending. Not a Pollyanna, but happy (most days).
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alpha62 said:
You wouldn't mind giving me a urine sample for tox screen now would you ? :p
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Wouldn't that violate my 5th amendment rights?????? Oh, wait, I gave those up.
 
I am currently an M2 and my husband is active duty army. We have been teetering with the option of me joining the army for a number of reasons. We are leaning towards doing it but there are a few questions that I need answered before I can comfortable say yes to the Army.

My questions are geared toward individuals that have completed their required 'payback' years and are now civilian doctors, or anyone that may know one.

1) After leaving the army and entering the civilian industry, are there anythings you felt were missing in your training that may have made the transisition very difficult.

2) With the finances aside, would you still have chosen the army route based purely on experience and education

3) After leaving the army and entering the civilian industry, do you ever regret leaving military medicine, and if so, why?

Thanks for reading and if you have any questions about med school, i'd be happy to do my best to answer them.
 
AiMac said:
I am currently an M2 and my husband is active duty army. We have been teetering with the option of me joining the army for a number of reasons. We are leaning towards doing it but there are a few questions that I need answered before I can comfortable say yes to the Army.

My questions are geared toward individuals that have completed their required 'payback' years and are now civilian doctors, or anyone that may know one.

1) After leaving the army and entering the civilian industry, are there anythings you felt were missing in your training that may have made the transisition very difficult.

2) With the finances aside, would you still have chosen the army route based purely on experience and education

3) After leaving the army and entering the civilian industry, do you ever regret leaving military medicine, and if so, why?

Thanks for reading and if you have any questions about med school, i'd be happy to do my best to answer them.
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Did you realize this thread is 4 years old and discussing a different subject? You might consider starting your own thread to get more eyes on your questions.

1) Yes...seeing sick patients.
2) No.
3) I only know one person who "regretted it." He came back in to the AF to be a flight doc. To be honest, he probably didn't cut it outside. He certainly wasn't making much money out there. I know dozens who haven't regretted it.
 
radspouse said:
My husband is part of a small group that have a yahoo! group site where they can stay in contact and inform one another on situations from base to base. Hopefully that group will grow to include all physicians in his particular specialty within the AF. It seems that the lack of information shared between physicians at various bases across the nation and a lack of organization deals a huge blow to physicians when it comes to their role as advocates for patient care as well as their own quality of life.
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Has that group continued to grow? I'm looking at USU AF, and would be interested in taking a look at it.
 
radspouse said:
My husband is part of a small group that have a yahoo! group site where they can stay in contact and inform one another on situations from base to base. Hopefully that group will grow to include all physicians in his particular specialty within the AF. It seems that the lack of information shared between physicians at various bases across the nation and a lack of organization deals a huge blow to physicians when it comes to their role as advocates for patient care as well as their own quality of life.
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neuroguy91 said:
Has that group continued to grow? I'm looking at USU AF, and would be interested in taking a look at it.
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I heard some USAF docs are trying to get something going on "the MySpace," a way for docs to get together and exchange messages about common interests. I also heard about some young tech-savvy docs who got on a CompuServe listserv, may be worth a look... not sure about the Yahoo! group.

At any rate, whoever comes up with a simple way for docs to get together in some kind of forum and share info with each other will make some big bucks!

*Edit: a link
 
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Member 1337 said:
I heard some USAF docs are trying to get something going on "the MySpace," a way for docs to get together and exchange messages about common interests. I also heard about some young tech-savvy docs who got on a CompuServe listserv, may be worth a look... not sure about the Yahoo! group.

At any rate, whoever comes up with a simple way for docs to get together in some kind of forum and share info with each other will make some big bucks!
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I will talk to my genius computer programming cousin and brainstorm some ideas.

Here are the obstacles I foresee:
1) The wisest among use, the older docs, are the least likely to participate in forums
2) People like to hide between anonymity on forums, however, it is difficult to confirm credentials through anonymity. Change takes place when people are willing to come OUT of the shadows and put their name down on a piece of paper.
3) I would frankly want to exclude any non-physician. This would require proof of credentials to gain a handle. This would have to be done in a SAFE and ORGANIZED fashion.
4) Subforums may be important, for instance, the opinions and views of military physicians should NOT be aired to the non-military physician public.
5) There is a very real fear that the freedom of speech is an outdated ideal. We need to tear down that wall.
It really is about time that we have reform that is directed by physicians and not by politicians, committees, licensing boards, and insurance companies. Nobody is going to look out for physicians other than physicians. If this was just a matter of protecting our own investments that would be one thing...but it's not. It's about simplifying medicine for the better...it's about a physician and patient. The rest of the BS can go away for all I care.
 
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Almost all the posters are gone now. Off to civilian residency, and more regular life.
 
I don't think I'd ever seen this thread but its a classic and just dripping in irony. I know the guy who was GMO_52. He was a GMO on LSD 52 right after I was a Marine GMO and we overlapped. He actually told me about this site. He also is a gastroenterologist and is the current PD in San Diego. He's a USUHS grad getting out at 13 years. I helped him review his contract. Bet he'd write a different post now.
 
I remember coming to this site and thinking that it was filled with a bunch of jaded complainers. Now I know that they weren't jaded...they were wise...complainers. :)
 
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so the general consensus I've been getting is: even if you really want to serve your country, entering into military medicine will give you a big headache and is not worth it given the current state that it is in.

I'm so far from actually practicing medicine, but I don't want to commit myself now (HPSP) to something I'm going to regret 5 years later and then be locked in for 5 years.

Does military medicine look like it will improve in the next 5 years?
 
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