Virginia tech Carilion Full Accreditation

[AnonymousD.O.]

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Members don't see this ad.

Really?

Since the beginning of the post my opinion of the list has changed somewhat, the list isn't as good as I thought at first glance. Not to mention my ability to evaluate a match list is rookie at best. Nonetheless I think the school is off to a good start compared to most new schools. The accreditation was good news because I think most people don't realize how many schools get stuck in phase 3 of the process. A few schools come to mind that I'm not gonna name.

Virginia Tech's Medical School is VT-Carilion. The Edward Via College of Osteopathic Medicine (VCOM) is in Blacksburg on Virginia Tech's Corporate Research Center and is "affiliated" with Virginia Tech. So depending on how you look at it, they do have 2 schools in a way. http://www.vcom.edu/aboutvcom/collaboration-virginia.html

VCOM is where I go and I can say that however you look at the affiliation of VCOM w/ Tech, VCOM certainly benefits from many of the Ph.Ds being former Va Tech Professors (an obvious plus) and also research opportunities....and most importantly, Football.

VCOM also has campuses at Wofford College in Spartanburg SC and a new campus being constructed at Auburn University.

 

[mvenus929]

I just think that VA has ENOUGH medical schools. They have EVMS, UVa, and VCU. That's enough.

I was going to add VCOM, but it seems you've already found them.

I agree. Students now have TONS of internet resources to access to assess specialties, what's needed, etc. Before 1999, I seriously don't know what students did, bc Student Affairs offices are just as deluded now as they were back then, esp. Deans of Student Affairs who are more administrative figure heads than student advocates. If anything, they'd much rather have you pick something easy, so it makes their jobs easy and the school can say you matched.

I dunno. Depends on the Dean, I think. We have four Deans of Student Affairs, and only one is horrible. The rest are awesome.

 

[Donald Kimball]

Not the greatest match list, but wouldn't a charter class have a pretty difficult time anyway?

 

[DocVapor]

https://www.aamc.org/download/263512/data/statedata2011.pdf

Pages 22-29 show Virginia is already above national average for medical school seats per capita, and LUCOM is accepting their first class this year. They are going to have another 162 seats per class.

I would agree with @DermViser that there are enough med schools in Virginia.

 

[DermViser]

https://www.aamc.org/download/263512/data/statedata2011.pdf

Pages 22-29 show Virginia is already above national average for medical school seats per capita, and LUCOM is accepting their first class this year. They are going to have another 162 seats per class.

I would agree with @DermViser that there are enough med schools in Virginia.

And 2 more up the pike as applicant schools:
College of Henricopolis School of Medicine - Martinsville, VA
King School of Medicine and Health Science Center - Abingdon, VA

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

And 2 more up the pike as applicant schools:
College of Henricopolis School of Medicine - Martinsville, VA
King School of Medicine and Health Science Center - Abingdon, VA

Haha that is Ridiculous. I don't have a huge problem with it as long as they establish residencies. Carilion was pumping out some new residency spots even before VT came along. The amount of schools in Va is weird. The only other state I can think of that has that many off the top of my head is Pennsylvania. I think there is about 30 Med Schools in Philly alone.

 

[DocVapor]

And 2 more up the pike as applicant schools:
College of Henricopolis School of Medicine - Martinsville, VA
King School of Medicine and Health Science Center - Abingdon, VA

Rofl. I completely forgot about those two. Martinsville has been on life support ever since the furniture industry moved to China, and Memorial Hospital in Martinsville isn't exactly a shining star of healthcare delivery. I'm sure the students will have a great time there though.

 

[PL198]

Yep.

I think they've either seen or heard that the PreMed forums are full of the blind leading the blind and forget about the vast amount of accurate information or correction of the misunderstandings.

Oh and job security.

Every time a med student goes into pre-allo it's like " time to roll up my sleeves and fix all this BS"

 

[Winged Scapula]

Every time a med student goes into pre-allo it's like " time to roll up my sleeves and fix all this BS"

😀

 

[username456789]

And 2 more up the pike as applicant schools:
College of Henricopolis School of Medicine - Martinsville, VA
King School of Medicine and Health Science Center - Abingdon, VA

What in the name of f*ck is this?

This is absurd. I mean, we've already passed absurd I think, but now we're just circling back around to revisit it.

 

[DermViser]

What in the name of f*ck is this?

This is absurd. I mean, we've already passed absurd I think, but now we're just circling back around to revisit it.

Yeah, tell me about it. Medical school is becoming the new law school.

 

[PL198]

Yeah, tell me about it. Medical school is becoming the new law school.

Less money for you and me, but hey we shouldn't even get paid at all so I'll be so happy even making 50k a year when I'm an attending

 

[@JackShephard]

Less money for you and me, but hey we shouldn't even get paid at all so I'll be so happy even making 50k a year when I'm an attending

It's all going to blow up in everyone's face soon.

These new schools are charging ~50k a year (COA) for in state students, add another 15-20k for OOS. and rising!!

Pre-meds aren't very smart. They are like the general public. They will just look at the salaries and think, oh yeah - I can make 150k or 200k as a doctor! Eventually we're going to have people with 400k in debt @ 6% with 150k salaries. Talk about a nightmare... and all these new laws on the books to allow you to pay only 10% of your monthly income to your debt.

I always laugh when I see people talking about the 10% payment caps as huge benefits. Maybe they are for a few years in residency. But beyond that, you're doing exactly what the government and banks want you to do. They would love you to pay back 400k over 30 years... that's called windfall profits ($329,626.85). They almost double their money on you.

 

[DermViser]

Every time a med student goes into pre-allo it's like " time to roll up my sleeves and fix all this BS"

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 Problem is they're pigs on a farm who love wallowing in their own ****. If you try to clean them off they jump right back in.

 

[username456789]

Eventually we're going to have people with 400k in debt @ 6% with 150k salaries. Talk about a nightmare...

That's already a reality for some people.

 

[PL198]

It's all going to blow up in everyone's face soon.

These new schools are charging ~50k a year (COA) for in state students, add another 15-20k for OOS. and rising!!

Pre-meds aren't very smart. They are like the general public. They will just look at the salaries and think, oh yeah - I can make 150k or 200k as a doctor! Eventually we're going to have people with 400k in debt @ 6% with 150k salaries. Talk about a nightmare... and all these new laws on the books to allow you to pay only 10% of your monthly income to your debt.

I always laugh when I see people talking about the 10% payment caps as huge benefits. Maybe they are for a few years in residency. But beyond that, you're doing exactly what the government and banks want you to do. They would love you to pay back 400k over 30 years... that's called windfall profits ($329,626.85). They almost double their money on you.

This is news to me... There's a limit to how much you can pay back, or are you just talking about due to salaries it won't be effectively possible to pay them off very fast?

 

[@JackShephard]

Looks like I'm already behind the times... VT COA is 68k for instate and out of state.

I guess they decided to forget the whole in state thing and charge everyone 70k
http://www.vtc.vt.edu/education/admissions/tuition_fees.html

Who wants to earn primary care salary of 180k and owe 300k+... that's today's picture. I can't imagine 10 years from now. Medicine takes a lot of commitment and 10 years of training. No one in their right mind would train 10 years and build up 400k debt to earn 150k. There are plenty of 100k jobs that require 1/2 the training (with no overnight call, 24 hr shifts or general crappy work schedules (12 hrs + go home and study). With nursing offering 1/2 the work load and 70-80% of the pay, I have no idea why anyone would go to medical school to do primary care... nurses get breaks, protected 40 hr weeks, sympathy, less debt, shorter training, etc.

This whole add 100 medical schools in the next decade idea is going to screw over physicians. Guess what, surgical subspecialties are competitive today... in 10 years with twice as many applicants - it's going to be much worse, much more competition/more hours/more research years or other CV boosters. These states with dozens of med schools will just pump out primary care physicians who get paid 160k while NPs begin to command 130k salaries with equal practice rights and less liability. All the while, they keep inching up tuition til you all owe 400k+. Talk about being trapped in medicine.

 

[@JackShephard]

This is news to me... There's a limit to how much you can pay back, or are you just talking about due to salaries it won't be effectively possible to pay them off very fast?

They have caps that allow you to pay only 10% of your monthly income to your debt.

And yes, eventually med school isn't going to make financial sense (i.e. 150k salary and dropping with 400k debt and climbing).

 

[PL198]

They have caps that allow you to pay only 10% of your monthly income to your debt.

And yes, eventually med school isn't going to make financial sense (i.e. 150k salary and dropping with 400k debt and climbing).

That doesn't have a provision where it's only for residents or people that make a certain amount or less?

 

[@JackShephard]

That doesn't have a provision where it's only for residents or people that make a certain amount or less?

No way.

Think like a credit card company. Would they rather you:

A. Pay off your debt
B. Keep your debt for 10 years
C. Keep your debt for 30 years

C = profits

Any lender in the world is happy to extend low risk debt indefinitely... they can borrow money at 1% and loan it to you at 6%. Do the lenders want that paid back soon? No way.

 

[PL198]

No way.

Think like a credit card company. Would they rather you:

A. Pay off your debt
B. Keep your debt for 10 years
C. Keep your debt for 30 years

C = profits

Any lender in the world is happy to extend low risk debt indefinitely... they can borrow money at 1% and loan it to you at 6%. Do the lenders want that paid back soon? No way.

Eh I don't think many of them are going to turn down someone paying their money back. I see your point, but I don't think the present value of paying it off in a few years is going to be much worse than the present value of paying it off in 10 or 30 years. I've never really heard of a lender refusing to accept additional repayment. It might seem beneficial to do so in a dollars sense, but if it does in a value sense, I bet it's pretty marginal.

 

[mvenus929]

They have caps that allow you to pay only 10% of your monthly income to your debt.

Technically, it's 10% of your discretionary income. Which I think is defined as the amount you make over the poverty line, but don't quote me on that.

That doesn't have a provision where it's only for residents or people that make a certain amount or less?

It goes up to the standard repayment for your loan, I believe. So you max out at the 10 year repayment amount for your loan. For someone with 400K in debt, that's pretty high. There are a few other stipulations for PAYE right now (not having any loans out in Oct 2007 being one of them, but that's probably not an issue for most current med students anymore), but I think Obama's executive order is going to remove a couple of them. IBR is 15% of your discretionary income.

 

[PL198]

Technically, it's 10% of your discretionary income. Which I think is defined as the amount you make over the poverty line, but don't quote me on that.



It goes up to the standard repayment for your loan, I believe. So you max out at the 10 year repayment amount for your loan. For someone with 400K in debt, that's pretty high. There are a few other stipulations for PAYE right now (not having any loans out in Oct 2007 being one of them, but that's probably not an issue for most current med students anymore), but I think Obama's executive order is going to remove a couple of them. IBR is 15% of your discretionary income.

I feel like there is a difference in the max they can demand you to pay vs the amount you can actually pay if you want. I'm talking about if someone wanted to aggressively pay down their loans. I very much doubt this would be prevented.

 

[mvenus929]

I feel like there is a difference in the max they can demand you to pay vs the amount you can actually pay if you want. I'm talking about if someone wanted to aggressively pay down their loans. I very much doubt this would be prevented.

Oh, I misunderstood you, then. Yeah, there's no penalty for paying more than your repayment amount. Though I think you were referring to that in the post directly above mine, not the one I quoted. My point was that everyone could qualify for IBR or PAYE (with a few exceptions for PAYE), as long as their repayment was less than the standard repayment, so there's not really an income max on it.

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

Well this thread has taken some interesting turns along the way. I like

 

[Donald Kimball]

I'm heading here in the fall, so in here 4 years, I'll let you guys know how it turns out. Sounds like I need to stay on top of my game to ensure I'm able to actually match.

I'm not so sure medicine is facing the same problem as law, after all, a huge difference is that the demand for healthcare isn't shrinking.

 

[Baller MD]

I'm heading here in the fall, so in here 4 years, I'll let you guys know how it turns out. Sounds like I need to stay on top of my game to ensure I'm able to actually match.

I'm not so sure medicine is facing the same problem as law, after all, a huge difference is that the demand for healthcare isn't shrinking.

For certain specialties there are... Medicine isn't immune to economic forces. Don't let the sheltered academics tell you otherwise.

 

[sinombre]

For certain specialties there are... Medicine isn't immune to economic forces. Don't let the sheltered academics tell you otherwise.

Medicine isn't immune to economic forces, but it's more sheltered than just about anything else.

What specialty are you referring to? Which specialties have decreased demand, or are over-saturated (other than pathology)?

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

There have been sooooooooooooooo many threads on medical school becoming the new law school. The changes in medicine occur much faster than the medical schools can adapt. There is a huge shortage of doctors in for primary care and some other specialties, and it took many years for the first new accredited schools to open. Now it seems like there are more on the way, but keep in mind it takes about 7 years to train a practicing doc on average and only 3 to train a lawyer. Law schools are much easier to get into overall as well. Sure there are competitive schools out there but there are some joke law schools where half of my friends got into without trying at all. It is much different.

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

Ready.........set.........TROLL

 

[Serous Demilune]

There have been sooooooooooooooo many threads on medical school becoming the new law school. The changes in medicine occur much faster than the medical schools can adapt. There is a huge shortage of doctors in for primary care and some other specialties, and it took many years for the first new accredited schools to open. Now it seems like there are more on the way, but keep in mind it takes about 7 years to train a practicing doc on average and only 3 to train a lawyer. Law schools are much easier to get into overall as well. Sure there are competitive schools out there but there are some joke law schools where half of my friends got into without trying at all. It is much different.

Limited residency spots are currently doing a good job of keeping demand for attendings high. Otherwise Caribbean and foreign grads would flood the market.

 

[PL198]

Oh, I misunderstood you, then. Yeah, there's no penalty for paying more than your repayment amount. Though I think you were referring to that in the post directly above mine, not the one I quoted. My point was that everyone could qualify for IBR or PAYE (with a few exceptions for PAYE), as long as their repayment was less than the standard repayment, so there's not really an income max on it.

Oh yeah, I agree, I meant more along the lines of removing that theoretical maximum for payment, rather than changing that maximum amount demanded as the minimum payment, if that makes any sense.

 

[PL198]

I'm heading here in the fall, so in here 4 years, I'll let you guys know how it turns out. Sounds like I need to stay on top of my game to ensure I'm able to actually match.

I'm not so sure medicine is facing the same problem as law, after all, a huge difference is that the demand for healthcare isn't shrinking.

Demand is relative depending on what you mean. I doubt the actual demand for law decreased, just there became an oversaturation. They could open up 1000 new med schools and the actual need of people for doctors would stay the same, yet the supply curve of doctors would shift and thus change equilibrium. That's what happened to law by my understanding. If anything demand is still probably going up(as nearly everyone looks to sue at the drop of a hat), just compared to the number of new attorneys, it's not keeping up. I wouldn't call that less demand.

 

[Baller MD]

Medicine isn't immune to economic forces, but it's more sheltered than just about anything else.

What specialty are you referring to? Which specialties have decreased demand, or are over-saturated (other than pathology)?

Currently? Radiology, cardiology, ophthalmology. I'm sure I'm missing a few others.

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

Limited residency spots are currently doing a good job of keeping demand for attendings high. Otherwise Caribbean and foreign grads would flood the market.

That's a good way to look at it I suppose. I wish there was some kind of requirement that a new school had to establish a certain number of residency spots, although that would put just a small dent in overload of supply.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Currently? Radiology, cardiology, ophthalmology. I'm sure I'm missing a few others.

Rads I get, but cardio and ophtho? Haven't heard of significant oversaturation in those specialties. Maybe in the big cities, but haven't heard of widespread issues getting jobs. Rads is hard b/c of telerads making physical radiology less necessary.

 

[Baller MD]

Rads I get, but cardio and ophtho? Haven't heard of significant oversaturation in those specialties. Maybe in the big cities, but haven't heard of widespread issues getting jobs. Rads is hard b/c of telerads making physical radiology less necessary.

Umm, no dude... Not the main reason.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Umm, no dude... Not the main reason.

Obviously not the main reason, but it's something to consider besides, "Lol, lots of radiologists now, and attendings are staying in practice longer b/c of changes in reimbursement, etc."

There are many community hospitals now that have overnight telerads. It is an issue b/c each community hospital doesn't have to have a radiologist attending on call, but instead they can hire a telerads firm (which can take multiple clients at once)

 

[PL198]

Obviously not the main reason, but it's something to consider besides, "Lol, lots of radiologists now, and attendings are staying in practice longer b/c of changes in reimbursement, etc."

There are many community hospitals now that have overnight telerads. It is an issue b/c each community hospital doesn't have to have a radiologist attending on call, but instead they can hire a telerads firm (which can take multiple clients at once)

As someone who has spent considerable amounts of their career on the pursuit of radiology, I don't really view telerads as a threat to my future career. There's such a difference between physicians of other nations that people will still value American doctors looking at their images. Not to mention I don't know if many people would like their images going to another nation, which doesn't have 1/10th the infrastructure necessary to ensure the information stays confidential. These are just like 2/10000 reasons I'm not worried. My opinion is that if any aspect of medicine is vulnerable to the "tele" phenomenon, it would be various forms of IM that don't involve procedures.

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

As someone who has spent considerable amounts of their career on the pursuit of radiology, I don't really view telerads as a threat to my future career. There's such a difference between physicians of other nations that people will still value American doctors looking at their images. Not to mention I don't know if many people would like their images going to another nation, which doesn't have 1/10th the infrastructure necessary to ensure the information stays confidential. These are just like 2/10000 reasons I'm not worried. My opinion is that if any aspect of medicine is vulnerable to the "tele" phenomenon, it would be various forms of IM that don't involve procedures.

But Even if people don't "like their images going to another nation" - this may not matter, it may happen anyway whether they like it or not

On the other hand, isn't it true that there are many new technologies that are coming out that telerads is useless for? Which of course would mean there are plenty of things left for the radiologist.

 

[Baller MD]

As someone who has spent considerable amounts of their career on the pursuit of radiology, I don't really view telerads as a threat to my future career. There's such a difference between physicians of other nations that people will still value American doctors looking at their images. Not to mention I don't know if many people would like their images going to another nation, which doesn't have 1/10th the infrastructure necessary to ensure the information stays confidential. These are just like 2/10000 reasons I'm not worried. My opinion is that if any aspect of medicine is vulnerable to the "tele" phenomenon, it would be various forms of IM that don't involve procedures.

I think currently most telerads come from within this country to cover nights.

 

[Baller MD]

But Even if people don't "like their images going to another nation" - this may not matter, it may happen anyway whether they like it or not

On the other hand, isn't it true that there are many new technologies that are coming out that telerads is useless for? Which of course would mean there are plenty of things left for the radiologist.

What are these new technologies you speak of?

 

[evilbooyaa]

As someone who has spent considerable amounts of their career on the pursuit of radiology, I don't really view telerads as a threat to my future career. There's such a difference between physicians of other nations that people will still value American doctors looking at their images. Not to mention I don't know if many people would like their images going to another nation, which doesn't have 1/10th the infrastructure necessary to ensure the information stays confidential. These are just like 2/10000 reasons I'm not worried. My opinion is that if any aspect of medicine is vulnerable to the "tele" phenomenon, it would be various forms of IM that don't involve procedures.

'Physicians of other nations'? What are you talking about? I'm talking about telerads within the country. American trained radiologists that reside in the US doing telerads for community hospitals across multiple hospitals in the US. I have a relative in radiology, and he has told me it is a thing that previous co-workers of his have started recently.

Telerads from radiologists trained in other nations would require a radical shift in policy that seems very unlikely, especially given the poor radiology job market at this moment.

Yes, radiologists do other things like biopsies, on-site studies, etc. but outside of IR (which I classify as different from standard diagnostic radiology for the sake of this argument and more like a surgical subspecialty) most of those things don't have to be done at night. or in an emergent setting.

If a person has a MI and needs a cath in the middle of the night, a cardiologist has to be IN the hospital ready to do the cath in an emergent situation.

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

What are these new technologies you speak of?

I completely misunderstood what telerads was. My bad 🙂

 

[PL198]

'Physicians of other nations'? What are you talking about? I'm talking about telerads within the country. American trained radiologists that reside in the US doing telerads for community hospitals across multiple hospitals in the US. I have a relative in radiology, and he has told me it is a thing that previous co-workers of his have started recently.

Telerads from radiologists trained in other nations would require a radical shift in policy that seems very unlikely, especially given the poor radiology job market at this moment.

Yes, radiologists do other things like biopsies, on-site studies, etc. but outside of IR (which I classify as different from standard diagnostic radiology for the sake of this argument and more like a surgical subspecialty) most of those things don't have to be done at night. or in an emergent setting.

If a person has a MI and needs a cath in the middle of the night, a cardiologist has to be IN the hospital ready to do the cath in an emergent situation.

I thought you meant an international usage in the future. Also I specifically said aspects of IM that don't require procedure.

 

[@JackShephard]

There's international telerads too.

All you need is an American physician to sign at the end...

 

[Baller MD]

There's international telerads too.

All you need is an American physician to sign at the end...

I don't believe it's common though.

 

[colbgw02]

Any payment by Medicare must be for services rendered on U.S. soil. Because it's impractical to separate out patients based on this criterion, it effectively means that overseas radiologists cannot provide final interpretations. A decade ago, radiology reimbursement was high enough that it was worthwhile for practices to hire U.S.-trained and licensed living abroad to provide just preliminary overnight reads. These would subsequently be over-read and signed off by a radiology physically in the U.S. the next morning, permitting billing. An entire industry sprung up around this concept, the most famous of which was Nighthawk, Inc., which - like Vasoline or Band-aid, is now a generic term, in case referring to anyone who works exclusively at night.

This model became largely unsustainable as reimbursements fell. Practices were no longer willing to lose a portion of the fee in order to pay the overseas radiologist for his preliminary read. In turn, it didn't make sense for the nighthawk companies to pay a premium for radiologists to live abroad. Now, the overwhelming majority of nighthawk radiologists work from within the U.S. providing final reads. The practices that hire these radiologists are making a lifestyle decision that they would rather lose that portion of income than have to take call. Sometimes hospitals hire these nighthawk firms, in which case it is almost always a financial decision because the firm promises to provide services for less expense.

There will always be a place for teleradiology in the U.S., but I believe that it is reaching an equilibrium. Private groups are increasingly recognizing that they must provide services 24/7 in order to stay competitive rather than turf it to a faceless stranger on the other end of a phone, as evidenced by the "take back the night" campaign. Many times, this means hiring internal nighthawk radiologists, who work exclusively after-hours for the group, a phenomenon aided by the poor job market. In addition, hospitals have started to learn that teleradiology nighthawk groups aren't always as great as they first seemed. There is real value in having someone on site, and frequently the savings initially promised to the hospital is either lacking or simply nonexistent.

 

[@JackShephard]

I don't believe it's common though.

Yeah, I've only heard of a few places doing it.

 

[evilbooyaa]

I thought you meant an international usage in the future. Also I specifically said aspects of IM that don't require procedure.

I was responding initially to the post indicating that along with rads, cardiology and ophtho had 'terrible' job markets. Hence my posts about how one requires a cardiologist to be in house (or very close) if the hospital does caths.